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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:18:00 -
[181] - Quote
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:baltec1 wrote:No, they are empty, there is near no risk of being ganked. Not flying it well would be autopiloting it with a bay full of sisters probes. So autopiloting an empty ship (100M hull alone) is "flying it well" and "shouldn't get you ganked." That's an odd position for a goon.
A ships hull cost means nothing in a gank. Only the things that can drop matter so the ship and rig cost means nothing to gankers. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
26
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:22:00 -
[182] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:A ships hull cost means nothing in a gank. Only the things that can drop matter so the ship and rig cost means nothing to gankers. But you agree that autopiloting an empty ship is a Good IdeaGäó and should not get you in trouble. |
Arnpior
Corus Industries Ltd Corus Conglomerate
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:29:00 -
[183] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: so having a scan immunity just doesnt make any sense, you cant even lock it to scan in the first place. It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else.
LOL Could you be more obvious ? Scan immunity makes fantastic sense. It means a ganker has to gamble period. There is zero risk added to AFK Autopilot blockade runners. (And seriously... what moron puts his BR on autopilot...)
A blockade runner is a purpose built ship, meant to avoid -gasp- pirates and blockades. part of evading a pirate is speed and agility... the other part is stealth/camoflage ie: Cant scan cargo.... Hrmmm.... is this a viable target or not ? Dont know.... then you take a chance or you skip it.
Removing cargo scan ability means gankers no loger have to roll the dice.... they now know if a ship is viable target or not. This doesnt mean less BRs will be popped.... rather it would mean only the valuable BRs would be popped and empty ones would be skipped. Thus the isk war scales would slide in favor of the gankers.
Leave immunity scanning... and they have to gamble and sometimes they will loose the roll and pop an empty ship for their efforts losing more than they gain on the killboard.
Because THAT is what this issue is truely about.... the isk wars on your killboards. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:30:00 -
[184] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:
Forget it. The scan immunity is a differentiator for this ship that makes gank attempts a real gamble and gives haulers much needed semi-safety. There is no need to buff ganking further.
The fact that it aligns like a frigates, warps like an intercepter and comes with a cov ops cloak is more than enough. Having cargo scan immunity on top of all of that just makes no sense and takes away the reward for flying these ships well. This isnt a buff to ganking because any blockade runner worth its salt would be uncatchable and unscannable anyway. It makes all the sense as it is a unique feature of this ship, that suits the role and lets it stand out from the crowd. The alignment and 6 AU warp speed (which is nowhere near that of a ceptor) is not enough of a unique feature to achieve that. And yes, it is a buff to ganking, simply because of the fact that it is possible to scan the ship and find out whether it is worthwhile to attack or not. This risk might be minuscule, but it is there and it is unnecessary to be there. Ganking these ships, even if flown badly (in your opinion) (what kind of capacity do you have, by the way, to decide whether AP is bad piloting or not?), is supposed to be a gamble and this gamble can only exist because of the scan immunity. If this gamble is gone, ganking is buffed. Simple.
My current bloacade runner goes 13.6 Au/s, so yea interceptor speeds.
Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:33:00 -
[185] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Aren't you contradicting yourself there, considering all the ganked freighters, which are empty or only carry low value cargo? a sizable number of gankers don't gank for profit, they just gank because of the gank.
This is a myth. That vast vast bulk are purely for profit. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:34:00 -
[186] - Quote
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:baltec1 wrote:A ships hull cost means nothing in a gank. Only the things that can drop matter so the ship and rig cost means nothing to gankers. But you agree that autopiloting an empty ship is a Good IdeaGäó and should not get you in trouble.
Why should it? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
26
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:37:00 -
[187] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place. But you said the scanning immunity is a downside for empty BRs, so not having it would be a safety net for them. And I'd say autopiloting a 100M ship designed for high collateral cargo is pretty stupid. So by removing it, CCP would provide a safetynet for bad pilots. |
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
26
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:37:00 -
[188] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Yongtau Naskingar wrote:baltec1 wrote:A ships hull cost means nothing in a gank. Only the things that can drop matter so the ship and rig cost means nothing to gankers. But you agree that autopiloting an empty ship is a Good IdeaGäó and should not get you in trouble. Why should it? I don't know? All that is quoting from YOUR posts, not mine. I'd say anybody who autopilots knows the risk involved. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:39:00 -
[189] - Quote
Yongtau Naskingar wrote: I don't know? All that is quoting from YOUR posts, not mine. I'd say anybody who autopilots knows the risk involved.
Given that I have never been attacked when on autopilot in any ship I will say the risk is very very low. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Arnpior
Corus Industries Ltd Corus Conglomerate
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:40:00 -
[190] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else. .... Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.
WUT ? Greater risk...... or safety net ? Clearly you are contradicting yourself. |
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
520
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:40:00 -
[191] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: My current bloacade runner goes 13.6 Au/s, so yea interceptor speeds.
Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.
Mine goes 6 AU and has rigs for faster align time. And one with cargo rigs for max cargo, obviously. What is bad piloting with these? And why are people bad pilots when they use ingame mechanics for moving around? I ask you again: Who are you to decide what is bad and what not? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:40:00 -
[192] - Quote
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place. But you said the scanning immunity is a downside for empty BRs, so not having it would be a safety net for them. And I'd say autopiloting a 100M ship designed for high collateral cargo is pretty stupid. So by removing it, CCP would provide a safetynet for bad pilots.
Dont try to twist my words. It wont work and will only make you look daft. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:43:00 -
[193] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec1 wrote: My current bloacade runner goes 13.6 Au/s, so yea interceptor speeds.
Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place.
Mine goes 6 AU and has rigs for faster align time. And one with cargo rigs for max cargo, obviously. What is bad piloting with these? And why are people bad pilots when they use ingame mechanics for moving around? I ask you again: Who are you to decide what is bad and what not?
A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
26
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:45:00 -
[194] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well. So then the scanning immunity is not a downside, and we should leave it on. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:46:00 -
[195] - Quote
Arnpior wrote:baltec1 wrote:It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else. .... Frankly, I do not and have never like a safety net for stupidity which is exactly what is being provided by this scan immunity. There is zero reason why bad pilots should be immune to being scanned given just how good this ship is in avoiding being locked in the first place. WUT ? Greater risk...... or safety net ? Clearly you are contradicting yourself.
Please learn the difference between an empty blackade runner being scanned and a full blockade runner being scanned.
There is no contradiction, just you trying to wriggle out of an impossible position you find yourself in. You are effectively insisting that bad pilots should be protected while moving high value items. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
520
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:46:00 -
[196] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.
You are evading my question. |
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
26
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:48:00 -
[197] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:You are evading my question. He's evading a lot of questions. Doing some questionable selective quoting too. You'd almost think he's up to something. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:49:00 -
[198] - Quote
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:baltec1 wrote:A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well. So then the scanning immunity is not a downside, and we should leave it on.
The scanning immunity is entirely pointless. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11651
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:53:00 -
[199] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec1 wrote: A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.
You are evading my question.
You asked what a bad pilot was, I just provided you with a bad pilot.
Now, let me ask you, why do you feel that bad pilots should be protected from "evil gankers" scanning them when they are flying a ship that is impossible to lock when flown well? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
26
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:54:00 -
[200] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The scanning immunity is entirely pointless. If it is entirely pointless, why did you spend an hour of your live arguing against it? There's a tons of things that are pointless in Eve, are you going to fill threads about all of them? |
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Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
238
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 10:56:00 -
[201] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Arnpior wrote: All the 'remove the immune to scanning' cries are making me laugh.
The first thing I noticed is that most of the posts are from corps that are known to gank blockade runners. I figured no one would take these obvious troll posts seriously. But somehow the terrible joke grew into many posts.
The only people that benefit from removing immunity to cargo scanning are the gankers. Currently there is no way to know if that BR is full up with officer mods or used minmitarr shuttles. The first thing a ganker does is calculate the isk lost by the suicide to the isk gained/destroyed in the gank. If the BR is empty.... they lose the isk war so they do not gank. If its full.... POP.
Also the scanning of blockade runners almost always happens when undocking from a major trade hub like JITA or AMARR, with server lag, the crowd of ships etc there is lots of time to be scanned before you warp to your safe undock bookmark. The cloak does not help at all in this situation. You also decloak when you arrive at a gate.... again vulnerable to insta lock scanners.
Right now BR cannot be specifically targetted. The gankers have to take a chance meaning sometimes they will lose the isk war... while others they might win. Remove scanning immunity and their job will be far easier, they'll never have to take a chance again..... they will know if the target is worth suiciding or not.
Also..... why is my prowler getting an agility nerf ?
I warp the second I undock to an undock safe and cloak, it is impossible to get a scan. When docking I warp to a bookmark I have either inside or right next to the station which again, makes it impossible to get a scan. Flown right a blocade runner cannot be locked at all so having a scan immunity just doesnt make any sense, you cant even lock it to scan in the first place. It is an entirely pointless thing to have and as others have stated, it puts empty blockade runners at greater risk if they decide to afk to wherever they are going while you wander off to do something else. Baltec is correct. The way I fly my BR no one can ever get a lock on me. These ships should never be autopiloted, so the scanning immunity is pretty useless on them. It would be much better on the DST.
Edit - also as pointed out, if you are running an empty blockade runner, the scan immunity could actually be a downside as some suicide gankers may take a gamble and suicide you. personally I never AP a BR though as they warp an align almost as fast as a shuttle so there is really no need. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11652
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:00:00 -
[202] - Quote
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:baltec1 wrote:The scanning immunity is entirely pointless. If it is entirely pointless, why did you spend an hour of your live arguing against it? There's a tons of things that are pointless in Eve, are you going to fill threads about all of them?
I am against it because it removes a lot of the negative impact of flying a blockade runner badly. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
58
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
If you keep the scanning immunity it adds risk to their gank
They don't know what the cargo is and that is the entirety of their gank
If they don't know what is inside they can't calculate the amount of isk the cargo is worth, so they can't mitigate their risk
Cargo is the ONLY part of the gank that is not a known fact prior to the gank
They know concord will blow them up, they know the loot fairy can be cruel or can be the good witch of the north.
What they don't know is how much the cargo is worth
That is underlined by this reply:
baltec1 wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Aren't you contradicting yourself there, considering all the ganked freighters, which are empty or only carry low value cargo? a sizable number of gankers don't gank for profit, they just gank because of the gank. This is a myth. That vast vast bulk are purely for profit. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
520
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:05:00 -
[204] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec1 wrote: A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.
You are evading my question. You asked what a bad pilot was, I just provided you with a bad pilot. Now, let me ask you, why do you feel that bad pilots should be protected from "evil gankers" scanning them when they are flying a ship that is impossible to lock when flown well?
If you would please have a look again at my post (for your convenience: #189), you will notice that I have not only asked what a bad pilot is, but also, for one, why people are bad pilots who use ingame mechanics, and secondly, what kind of capacity you have to decide that for all players. The very same question I already asked you in post #177. Selectively answering questions is not going to help your cause. I could ignore that if you had added a "in my opinion", as you are entitled to and to voice your opinion; however, what you have written so far is not an opinion, but rather a verdict. So, what kind of capacity do you have to speak such a verdict?
And again: No, the scan immunity is not "entirely pointless", as demonstrated before. What you want is just easier ganks of people who don't follow your questionable ideals and verdicts. That is not a proper reason to remove this outstanding feature of a single ship class. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11653
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:08:00 -
[205] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec1 wrote: A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.
You are evading my question. You asked what a bad pilot was, I just provided you with a bad pilot. Now, let me ask you, why do you feel that bad pilots should be protected from "evil gankers" scanning them when they are flying a ship that is impossible to lock when flown well? If you would please have a look again at my post (for your convenience: #189), you will notice that I have not only asked what a bad pilot is, but also, for one, why people are bad pilots who use ingame mechanics, and secondly, what kind of capacity you have to decide that for all players. The very same question I already asked you in post #177. Selectively answering questions is not going to help your cause. I could ignore that if you had added a "in my opinion", as you are entitled to and to voice your opinion; however, what you have written so far is not an opinion, but rather a verdict. So, what kind of capacity do you have to speak such a verdict? And again: No, the scan immunity is not "entirely pointless", as demonstrated before. What you want is just easier ganks of people who don't follow your questionable ideals and verdicts. That is not a proper reason to remove this outstanding feature of a single ship class.
How exactly am I getting easier ganks on a ship I cannot even lock when it is flown well?
Why exactly do you need more protection than the ability to not even be locked in the first place? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
26
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:13:00 -
[206] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I am against it because it removes a lot of the negative impact of flying a blockade runner badly. Like autopiloting a full BR ('s what you said). And you want the gankers to take care of those, because you want punish people who fly badly. But you don't want the gankers to shoot every BR on sight (i.e. you don't want them to shoot you), so you let them scan you so they know you're empty. So basically, you wish pain on BR pilots doing something you don't, so you personally get shot less.
Except that a) people don't AP BRs with high value in their cargo (risk ain't worth it) so these people you wish pain on don't exist. And b) you think you get to decide what good or bad is, even though autopiloting in general is widely regarded a bad idea (cargo or no, regardless of what you might think), and frankly, if the game allows for AP with valueable cargo, doing so is not bad gameplay. Except that, you know, it already doesn't allow it, since the point argued against removing was that it counters people who fly empty, not people who fly full.
Kenneth Feld - wrote:If you keep the scanning immunity it adds risk to their gank Which, of course, is the real reason anyone argues against the immunity, it would making ganking more profitable (as they can filter out BRs which aren't profitable). Basically, there's ships that are flown well, and they are rarely ganked, and there's ships that are flown badly, and they want gankers to see which of those ships are profitable, so they don't have to take any risk (but still get the reward). |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
520
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:14:00 -
[207] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:baltec1 wrote: A bad pilot would be someone who lets someone lock them in the first place. Blockade runners in high sec are impossible to lock let alone scan if they are flown well.
You are evading my question. You asked what a bad pilot was, I just provided you with a bad pilot. Now, let me ask you, why do you feel that bad pilots should be protected from "evil gankers" scanning them when they are flying a ship that is impossible to lock when flown well? If you would please have a look again at my post (for your convenience: #189), you will notice that I have not only asked what a bad pilot is, but also, for one, why people are bad pilots who use ingame mechanics, and secondly, what kind of capacity you have to decide that for all players. The very same question I already asked you in post #177. Selectively answering questions is not going to help your cause. I could ignore that if you had added a "in my opinion", as you are entitled to and to voice your opinion; however, what you have written so far is not an opinion, but rather a verdict. So, what kind of capacity do you have to speak such a verdict? And again: No, the scan immunity is not "entirely pointless", as demonstrated before. What you want is just easier ganks of people who don't follow your questionable ideals and verdicts. That is not a proper reason to remove this outstanding feature of a single ship class. How exactly am I getting easier ganks on a ship I cannot even lock when it is flown well? Why exactly do you need more protection than the ability to not even be locked in the first place?
You evade again. You are obviously trying to wear away the stone by constantly dripping your emtpy words on it. That is not going to work.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11653
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:19:00 -
[208] - Quote
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
Except that a) people don't AP BRs with high value in their cargo (risk ain't worth it) so these people you wish pain on don't exist.
They do exist. They also park up on the jita gate and go afk.
Yongtau Naskingar wrote: And b) you think you get to decide what good or bad is
You honestly think flying afk in a full blockade runner is a good pilot? It common sense, something far too many people seem to be lacking these days.
Yongtau Naskingar wrote:
Which, of course, is the real reason anyone argues against the immunity, it would making ganking more profitable (as they can filter out BRs which aren't profitable). Basically, there's ships that are flown well, and they are rarely ganked, and there's ships that are flown badly, and they want gankers to see which of those ships are profitable, so they don't have to take any risk (but still get the reward).
And why should the bad blockade runner pilots be protected from gankers scanning them? They are in a ship that when flown well is impossible to catch. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11653
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:21:00 -
[209] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:You evade again. You are obviously trying to wear away the stone by constantly dripping your emtpy words on it. That is not going to work.
Said the guy who cant answer why bad pilots need to be protected from scanner when flying a ship that is impossible to lock when flown well. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
238
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:24:00 -
[210] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Why exactly do you need more protection than the ability to not even be locked in the first place? This is the key point. The immunity is not even needed because you cannot even be locked in the first place. Strange that people still insist on wanting immunity in light of this fact. Well, enjoy your fruitless discussion. |
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