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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1503
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 17:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Proton Power wrote:Gankability; from what I can tell freighters will be just as gankable now and be valued more due to rigs.
u could use hull rigs for buffer or are armour resist rigs with logi. or low friction rigs with a webber. Its only just as gankable if ur not really trying. seems fair.
Niko Lorenzio wrote: So the question is then, did freighters require a nerf? Were they too OP in the current form?
Naw, they were just fine. They are widely used and popular ships. They were in no need of a nerf nor buff. But soooo many threads came up asking for customizability. They were told every time 'u cant straight buff freighters' and 'freighters are already perfect' so any customisation would come in the form of specialisations and trade-offs.
honestly, T1's could have been nerfed more. the only thing they lost is capacity, which can still be made to go above previous amounts. Everything else is the same or close enough to make no difference before rigs. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1503
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 17:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
TheButcherPete wrote:They still have the velocity bonus.... which is *mostly* useless.
oh yay my Freighter goes 100m/s. Yay. Totally could use that bonus over say, an agility or mass bonus to make FLYING a freighter less than soul crushingly boring.
I was excited for these changes, and then suddenly I was not. :(
really? cause if u read the hull rig thread u see ppl saying 'please dnt make hull rigs penalize velocity. my afk freighter will cry' EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1503
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 19:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Tippia wrote:make them silly overpowered and completely imbalanced. Overpowered? Imbalanced? Compared to what? LOL. Not all terms apply to all classes. You want to talk about "overpowered?" How about look at the Orca. That's got enough meaningful room, FULL CUSTOMIZATION THROUGH MODULES, huge tank, quick align, etc. That's overpowered. A freighter than can do nothing but watch itself get bumped or suicide ganked? Overpowered? Imbalanced? Ha. No.
precisely, imagine the stat changes the orca would get if it had its mid low and rig slots removed but needed to keep the same functions.
it would get near max cargo as standard 10 second align time as standard massive ehp as standard
now the opposite us happening to the frieghters. its getting the option to focus its fittings (just like the orca) but at the expense of some other functions (just like the orca).
and trust me, this really could have been a heavier nerf. They could have made it so u couldnt exceed current capacity amounts. There was little need to buff max capacity on freighters, but they've done it. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1503
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 19:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote: and trust me, this really could have been a heavier nerf. They could have made it so u couldnt exceed current capacity amounts. There was little need to buff max capacity on freighters, but they've done it.
I laughed for a second. You get meager 4% more cargo space for over a Billion more ISK and much reduced HP, or you go T1 and have less cargo, less HP and still increased cost for the ship. That is not a buff at all, that's not even a buffy.
im surprised it took u a second to realise ur wrong and stop laughing.
max possible capacity has gone up. more than 4% for T1 freighters. perhaps freighters over all havent been buffed, but in the respects of max capacity, yes, yes they have. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1503
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 19:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scarlet Thellere wrote: -yes you can improve your cargo but you will loose on tank -get little more money(cos rigging for cargo will not yield much higher cargo-space compared to pre-patch with much more risk
this is what people asked for. more space but at the price of tank.
Scarlet Thellere wrote: -yes you improve your tank and you move much less stuff with a little more safetly compared to pre-patch, so again you earn less. (whole lot less).
yep, it was what ppl were asking for.
are a lot of ppl also forgetting that u can half the penalty of rigs with skills? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1503
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 19:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote: 4% is "gone up" for you? No wonder that the current state of the societies is so rotten if we are pleased with and praise such awesome improvements.
1.04>1.00
gg EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1503
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 19:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote: However, is it really too much to ask for improvements on ships that could need some improvements to make them actually a little bit better usablef for a price?
except i would say freighters didnt need improvements. Nor does ganking need a nerf. Things were/are in good shape. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1505
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 20:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Joshua Trader wrote:As someone who worked his ass off for months to buy and fly an ARK I for one am happy with the changes. At least now that they are making the game literally ****, I wont have to swap between star citizen and eve once it comes out.
There is no way any freighter needs a nerf. They all need their HP buffed 200%. I should be able to carry at least 2b isk through high sec without worry of gank. You know how easy it is to put 1b isk in a freighter with the prices these days?
GJ CCP STAR CITIZEN IS LOOKING BETTER EVERYDAY!
its exactly that 'cake and eat it too' thinking that got u here. well done. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1505
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 20:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Conceptual question: the focus has thus far been on cargo capacity. The premise that they needed to nerf base capacity because some players might up their capacity. But is top-end capacity, within reason, really the big issue? Is the ability to haul "moar" stuff from here to there really what focus was on when they considered and approved rigs?
I just don't see cargo capacity, past a certain point, that significant to force projection or hurting the game. It's a necessary evil in order to keep higher-level game functionality operating.
When I first heard the announcement for rigs, my first inclination was that this was really a response to the generic tanks on freighters. See an Obelisk and know: this much DPS needed to kill it before Concord responds. Call it an Anti-Burn Jita change. Not just BJ, but throwing a bit of a wrinkle into everyday hisec ganking. But in the end, I don't think it is going to work out like that. Yes, I know you could add some tank rigs. But with such a major hit to base capacity, that probably won't be the outcome. I just don't see capacity being the issue, no matter what level its at. Cargo value comes into play much more than top-end capacity in most circumstances. The rest, meh. I think their concern over "moar cargo" was a bit much.
im actually pleased i can carry more. i can now carry more than one assembled battleship in more than one type of freighter now. great for moving things before a dec. and i guess that also applies to incursion runners. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1505
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 20:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Batolemaeus wrote:baltec1 wrote:[
Its to stop us shipping capitals into jita. Increasing repackaged values of capital ships and sov upgrade mods is one sql query away.
so why not just allow freighters to carry 20mil m3 and make repackaged capitals 21mil m3?
Because theres a point where logistics becomes too easy and transforms competition from effort and risk taking to simply having a skillbook trained or not. With across the board increases to capacity with no trade offs, importing items becomes easier, safer and faster, and that means it becomes cheaper and prices level across the galaxy, and that means the rewards are less for anyone who does any work.
its a nerf to ppl who set up shop in a certain location to build and sell certain items. its a nerf to ppl who pay attention and use escorts when they haul. its a nerf to inter-regional traders.
the real beneficiaries of making all this easier to do is ppl who dnt really pay attention to where they set up shop, cant be bothered to check regional prices and afk haul.
you want things to be harder, because u want to be rewarded for ur efforts and u want ur competition to lose out for being lazy or dying in a fire because hes bad at space ships. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1508
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 21:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:I'm surprised to see so many from Red-Frog whining. You should be happy, these changes will discourage quite a bit of your competition. Adapt and continue to dominate FFS. That is quite obviously a post from ignorance, so let me tell you how it is. Red/Black/Blue Frog do not really have any competition to begin with. Their market is those that are not part of an alliance with a large logistical backbone, Goon Logistics, N3/PL Logistics, BNI Logistics etc, are not actual competition to them as those alliances are not the consumer base.
u dnt think anyone else does courier contracts but frogs? That's ignorance. They may not be as good as u, but now u can be even better than they are than u were before, depending on whoever puts the extra effort in or not.
Alner Greyl wrote:Where is the choice?
now u can choose between tank, speed and capacity. u also have the choice of rigging ur freighters for projectile damage if u want. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1508
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote:
I was enthusiastic when CCP Fozzie announced rigs for freighters at Fanfest. The way these are going to be implemented, if that really is the final word, makes it seem like there's no real gain for the freighter pilot.
because u thought u were getting a straight buff to a ship that didnt need a buff. No real gain other than choice was due. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1508
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Talcuris wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Abulurd Boniface wrote:
I was enthusiastic when CCP Fozzie announced rigs for freighters at Fanfest. The way these are going to be implemented, if that really is the final word, makes it seem like there's no real gain for the freighter pilot.
Talcuris wrote: I was kind of excited when the rig slots were anounced at fanfest that there would actually be a choice of rigs. Alignment speed, warp speed, tankyness, cargo hold ...
because u thought u were getting a straight buff to a ship that didnt need a buff. No real gain other than choice was due. Yeah, but the point stands that there _is_ no choice now. I can take nerfs, but this on top of that, thanks a lot.
u can exceed a current freighters capacity. u can exceed a current freighters tank. u can exceed a current freighters speed.
but u cant have all three at once. u have to choose. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1508
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Or You can have cargo rigs nerf structure. Agi rigs nerf structure Hull rigs nerf cargo
The penalties of rigs are tiny, and aren't really a meaningful tradeoff.. You could fit one of each and the penalties are so low with rigging V u now straight buffed ur freighter when it was in no need of a buff.
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Not by much for an extreme price Not by much and not enough to matter. Not by much and who gives a shite
So what was the point?
capacity is powerful for a freighter. u want a straight 70% buff to capacity? hell no. with hull rigs adding around 70% hp, yeah it is. speed is useful for freighters, and if u dnt think ppl give a ****, read the hull rig thread.
the point is players wanted choice. they got it. dnt cry at me boy, i was one of the ones saying that this would happen if freighters got rigs and/or slots. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1508
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Ive noticed something in this discussion, that those that didnt want freighters changes are now coming here in droves claiming all we wanted on freighters were rigs, I was heavily involved in those discussions and I; as well as you, know that that was not the limit of what we were suggesting.
We wanted flexiblity, just like the ORCA, rigs, highs, mids, lows, the whole deal, to now claim all we wanted is rigs is just cheap ass bullshit.
The costs for that change could have been mitigated by just reclassifying freighters as 'large' instead of capital since they walk like a large, talk like a large and act like a large (in that they can go into highsec) anyways.
But this takes creativity something that seems sorely lacking in this sadly comical 'solution'.
even if those highs mids and lows would come with even more nerfs?
making the rigs may be one way to go. but most complaints at the prices seem to be because they want to fit T2 rigs. T1's are less than 100mil a piece in Hek. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1511
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 00:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rittel wrote:Can you not just give freighters a sub-system slot with the option between 3 systems based around Cargo, Agility and Tank?
That way we can have the choice to fit how we see fit without having to rip out 2 T2 rigs or buy a whole new freighter!
fit t1 rigs then. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1511
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 00:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Axe Coldon wrote:What I don't get is why is a cargo nerf necessary to this change.
Daichi Yamato wrote:Batolemaeus wrote:baltec1 wrote:[
Its to stop us shipping capitals into jita. Increasing repackaged values of capital ships and sov upgrade mods is one sql query away. so why not just allow freighters to carry 20mil m3 and make repackaged capitals 21mil m3? Because theres a point where logistics becomes too easy and transforms competition from effort and risk taking to simply having a skillbook trained or not. With across the board increases to capacity with no trade offs, importing items becomes easier, safer and faster, and that means it becomes cheaper. Prices level across the galaxy which means the rewards are less for anyone who does any work. its a nerf to ppl who set up shop in a certain location to build and sell certain items. its a nerf to ppl who pay attention and use escorts when they haul. its a nerf to inter-regional traders. the real beneficiaries of making all this easier to do is ppl who dnt really pay attention to where they set up shop, cant be bothered to check regional prices and afk haul. you want things to be harder, because u want to be rewarded for ur efforts and u want ur competition to lose out for being lazy or dying in a fire because hes bad at space ships.
that and the fact u could carry capitals into hi-sec. And t1 rigs also exist for ur freighters btw. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1511
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 02:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Tippia wrote:It Maybeatrap wrote:Next change: Freighters get +1 low slot and lose 80% hull hp. 80% would probably be overkill, but since even a T1 suitcase doubles your hull EHP, a reduction in the 50% region wouldn't be at all surprising. Buying and fitting a DCU would not be as hard of a cost hit as fitting 2 capital rig...
no, where in lies the opposite problem. doubling ur tank for next to nothing.
it would take a much greater shift of HP's from structure into shield and armour to stop the DC from being stupidly powerful. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1526
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 10:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
If the goal is flexibility for a ship, and the result is a major overhaul to base stats, why stop at rigs? Rigs are traditionally a secondary form of augmentation. Mods are where the real flexibility comes in.
Perhaps its baby steps. Rigs are maxed at 3 (or 2) and provide inherently small benefits with penalties. it would be far easier to do rigs than mods.
nano: +10% speed +15% agility for -20% tank...ok Cargo expander: 27.5% capacity -20% tank -10% speed...ok damage control: +100% tank, no penalties...wtf?!
the damage control has tremendous power on an Orca, and it would be the same for freighters. The move of more hp% into shield or armour would make me happier to see things like slots, but it'd have to be quite a lot.
Barton Breau wrote:
Either someone correct my finger math or write up a paper what causes beancounting trump reason, trying to sell a 20% increase as "significantly higher".
so if ur energy bills went up 20% in one go u wouldnt call that a significant?
Kaius Fero wrote: I have to test this on SISI, but I'm pretty sure that I can bounce on 4-5 freighters at once preventing them to warp away. If more than 2-3 people do this, they could completely shut down a choke point as Uedama. It would be hilarious to do the bumping with a Prospect.
do it. i am a freighter pilot.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1528
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 12:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Migui X'hyrrn wrote:I am amazed by the amount of tears/threats that are posted in this thread considering that freighters / jump freighters are peaceful ships :D
the most vicious and explosive players have always been carebears. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1531
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 13:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kelsi Monroe wrote:Arkon Olacar wrote:It's like Fozzie has never actually played Eve -+Doing logistics for a big corp/alliance? Pretty sure. Only someone with a complete ignorace of how boring logistics can be would propose this changes.
and yet freighter pilots have been proposing it for years. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1531
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 16:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lair Osen wrote:Tippia wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:what i dont understand is why you nerfed the freighters
could you not have left the stats the same and then built negative modifiers into the rigs? GǪthereby nerfing all capital ships rather than just balance freighters? Yeah, no. I think he means that the Rigs have inbuilt drawbacks already so why is an extra massive nerf needed?
if that is what he means then i would like to point out that the penalties on rigs are small and can further be halved by skills.
leaving the stats alone and just adding rigs slots is an absolute buff and power creep. Freighters dnt need buffs, and power creep is bad. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1531
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 16:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Lair Osen wrote:Tippia wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:what i dont understand is why you nerfed the freighters
could you not have left the stats the same and then built negative modifiers into the rigs? GǪthereby nerfing all capital ships rather than just balance freighters? Yeah, no. I think he means that the Rigs have inbuilt drawbacks already so why is an extra massive nerf needed? if that is what he means then i would like to point out that the penalties on rigs are small and can further be halved by skills. leaving the stats alone and just adding rigs slots is an absolute buff and power creep. Freighters dnt need buffs, and power creep is bad. penalties can be increased or skills not applied if necessary the point of my post is to try to actually give some choice to the ship owner the current model is to nerf everyone...increase the price of the ships as you have to buy rigs to get back what you had im saying leave me what i had and let ME chose what nerf I want
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1531
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 16:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote: CCP is fond of saying risk vs reward these changes are 100% risk and 0% reward since all the changes do is increase the value of a km by addi expensive rigs to it
Reward/Risk
Capacity / tank + speed tank / capacity + speed speed / capacity + tank EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1532
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 16:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:In fact what is wrong in making the JF's and freighters have a low module each and so we can use a DCU II,
oh i dunno... EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1532
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Posted - 2014.05.18 16:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ncc 1709 wrote:1 lowslot on the frighter would mean , dcu as tank, cargo expander as cargo, inertia stab for agility or nano or even a Capital AAR
one of these is disproportionately more powerful than the others. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1535
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Ncc 1709 wrote:1 lowslot on the frighter would mean , dcu as tank, cargo expander as cargo, inertia stab for agility or nano or even a Capital AAR one of these is disproportionately more powerful than the others. The DCU II of course, but it is a common perception that it is just too easy to gank freighters and Jump Freighters, except for the gankbears of course... But why nerf it, it will make it a challenge for you gankbears, you want a challenge don't you?
common misconception. and i am a freighter pilot.
why nerf either? why buff either? things were fine. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1537
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So, bit off topic, but I noticed your signature, Dracvlad.
Wasn't Hub Zero that silly Grr Goons NPC null thing Infinity Ziona was working on before he got banned? Or am I thinking of something else?
thankyou for that little gem. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1539
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1540
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote: Right after you tell us how booster ship boosts hull tank of a freighter.
...all right, I'll tell you anyway - you fit a ship scanner with a cargo scanner on your NPC scanning alt you scan freighters with. With amount of non-hull tank on a freighter, it's gotta be active all the time or it'll be too late. Not to mention that a booster will not boost freighter ehp more than 1%-2%, which is negligible.
more like 10% (will be more now that freighters are getting more hp into armour and shield) and logi reps.
Digger Pollard wrote: Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. You can make it less profitable, but not avoid it. Losing a freighter, even an empty one, is bad enough to call it a huge risk to pilot one.
Hard to prove that. all i can say is i freighter a lot, and have never once been successfully ganked.
Dave Stark wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog. so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes?
without trying to paint a bulls eye on my head, i intend to fit 3 cargo rigs on all my freighters. I expect the methods i use to keep myself safe now will continue to keep me safe. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1541
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:
Statistics is an exact scientific branch of mathematics.
quoting, and if i have space, this will go in my sig. ur shame will last till the end of time. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1542
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:
Statistics is an exact scientific branch of mathematics.
quoting, and if i have space, this will go in my sig. ur shame will last till the end of time. Have you ever taken a course in statistics? Do you know what a significance test is? These things aren't open to interpretation any more so than any other branch of mathematics.
its the exact part.
data may be exact. however there is nothing exact about which data should be used or how it is gathered.
for example: baltec is using the amount of freighter trips as his population. vhelnik is using the amount of freighter pilots as his population.
both are correct, but they arent the same. which u use is ur opinion.
and there is nothing exact about a significance test either. in fact what should be used as a significance level is entirely open to OPINION, and even when a significance level suggests one thing or the other it is only a suggestion. it is entirely open to interpretation how we read data. Statistical analysis has inference written all over it.
yes i have taken courses in statistics. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1542
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:and there is nothing exact about a significance test either. in fact what should be used as a significance level is entirely open to OPINION, and even when a significance level suggests one thing or the other it is only a suggestion. it is entirely open to interpretation. Uh no, when you do a significance test at the 90% level you're saying that you want to be 90% certain that your confidence interval contains the true population proportion, or that you want to be 90% certain that rejecting the null hypothesis is correct. It's about probabilities, not interpretation.
what we said was that it suggested the null hypothesis is correct, but we understood it does not give 100% certainty. u cannot say its exact and un manipulable when ppl use different significant levels for different tests. they pull whatever number they want to use out their arse.
saying the the significance test is open to interpretation is wrong, its not what i meant. whats open to interpretation is ur theory based on the information gathered from the test.
but theres nothing exact about statistics apart from raw data. which can still be collected in various ways and give different out comes. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1542
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Posted - 2014.05.18 20:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:which can still be collected in various ways and give different out comes. not if you have population data.
What was used by peeps in the thread was the US population and a year.
but what if u only live in arizona and dnt really travel anywhere else. i expect the average number of lightning storms is higher or lower in arizona than the entire US average. so the actual chance of being struck by lightning in a given year is actually different for this person who doesnt leave arizona.
what data u use and why is upto u. but when ppl say the chance of something happening is such and such, the number they give u is meaningless to ur individual circumstances. thats what im trying to say.
also using past records as data is flawed because even though something has happened in the past, does not necessarily mean its going to happen in the future.
Probability isnt exact as nothing is truly random. Causality and all that. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1542
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 21:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote: Are you ******* kidding me? I have ganker alt, I know this. There is NO RISK.
people who pretend to have ganker alts is also something that never gets old. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1543
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 21:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
fair enough WP. so ill point out where u urself explained where the risk is.
Walter Hart White wrote: If 300m drops, you are neutral. If anything more, you are in profit.
this is risk. u guys may put in the effort to increase the chances of getting a kill and making money. but its not something u can deliver with 100% certainty. This is widely understood, and why assumed u weren't being truthful
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1544
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 22:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:fair enough WP. so ill point out where u urself explained where the risk is. Walter Hart White wrote: If 300m drops, you are neutral. If anything more, you are in profit. this is risk. u guys may put in the effort to increase the chances of getting a kill and making money. but its not something u can deliver with 100% certainty. This is widely understood, and why assumed u weren't being truthful. sorry This is not a risk. Who cares about the drop when you gank? You are ISK-efficient regardless on the killboards. The drop is only icing on top of the already delicious cake.
even the kill itself is not a certainty.
what if the freighter pilot uses webs as this guy pointed out.
If ur measuring the chances of a successful gank from after the point a freighters been bumped, ill admit, the chances of escape are almost 0 (which is why i say dnt get bumped). but even the turrets catalysts and talos's use work on a random number generator. fingers crossed... EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1544
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 22:26:00 -
[38] - Quote
Lyn Fel wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:fair enough WP. so ill point out where u urself explained where the risk is. Walter Hart White wrote: If 300m drops, you are neutral. If anything more, you are in profit. this is risk. u guys may put in the effort to increase the chances of getting a kill and making money. but its not something u can deliver with 100% certainty. This is widely understood, and why assumed u weren't being truthful. sorry This is not a risk. Who cares about the drop when you gank? You are ISK-efficient regardless on the killboards. The drop is only icing on top of the already delicious cake. even the kill itself is not a certainty. what if the freighter pilot uses webs as this guy pointed out. If ur measuring the chances of a successful gank from after the point a freighters been bumped, ill admit, the chances of escape are almost 0 (which is why i say dnt get bumped). but even the turrets catalysts and talos's use work on a random number generator. fingers crossed... A single mach can keep a webbed freighter from warping with bumping only.
i bolded the part i think u missed
the uncertainty lies in whether the webber can make a lock before the freighter is bumped. i mean u could have 20 dare devils all jump through with the freighter to give them a good spread, then give them dual faction webs for longer ranged insta warping.
the only certainty is that nothing is certain. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1545
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:It might be more sensible to keep the stats as they are, and add the rig slots. I can't see any negative effects of faster, bigger, or tankier freighters tbh.
Freighters dnt need a buff. Power creep is bad.
CCP Fozzie wrote: I do want to clarify that although it's very possible that a lot of these numbers can change, we're not going to simply give JFs a gigantic buff to their cargoholds and call it a day. The fast movement of goods across the galaxy has its advantages and also its disadvantages, and we are not going to simply let power creep get out of control in this area.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1545
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 11:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote: What power creep? 1.3m cargo hold? What, so more gankers can fit their wallet? Usually, the cargo >800m3 is rare and only useful for minerals if you want to keep collateral low. If you don't, well, more power to you. Please, haul 1.3m m3 of plexers for all I care. This would hardly imbalance anything at all. For 1.4b for rigs, you get 1.3m m3 space. And? You pay two times for freighter, so you should get some bonus out of it...
That is what CCP should get. Rigs are not buff. Rigs are balanced on their own. They buff and nerf at same time. No need to nerf further....
Rigs arent balanced on their own. their penalties are small, and can be further halved by skills. Some rigs dnt even have penalties.
like it or not, the ability to move things like ships is power. ability to move more things faster and safer is more power.
Daichi Yamato wrote:
so why not just allow freighters to carry 20mil m3 and make repackaged capitals 21mil m3?
Because theres a point where logistics becomes too easy and transforms competition from effort and risk taking to simply having a skillbook trained or not. With across the board increases to capacity with no trade offs, importing items becomes easier, safer and faster, and that means it becomes cheaper. Prices level across the galaxy which means the rewards are less for anyone who does any work.
its a nerf to ppl who set up shop in a certain location to build and sell certain items. its a nerf to ppl who pay attention and use escorts when they haul. its a nerf to inter-regional traders.
the real beneficiaries of making all this easier to do is ppl who dnt really pay attention to where they set up shop, cant be bothered to check regional prices and afk haul.
you want things to be harder, because u want to be rewarded for ur efforts and u want ur competition to lose out for being lazy or dying in a fire because hes bad at space ships.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1548
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Posted - 2014.05.19 13:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: 3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.
I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them. At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game. A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties. A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees. they might be an item sink, but they aren't an isk sink.
and they ARE an isk faucet because of insurance. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1552
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 16:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I can see some of these reductions are needed to compensate for the boost from rigs. But even with rigs, a freighter cannot be brought up to the same performance level it has right now. If you rig for cargo, the tank is less. If you rig for tank, the cargo is less. If you rig a bit for both, both are less. There is no combination of rigs that return a freighter to where it is right now.
Please reconsider the degree of the reductions to cargo and tank.
if it took one of each rig to bring it back to the norm, i could fit 3x cargo rigs and get an overpowered capacity.
like in all the threads before, u have to nerf it to a point that extreme fittings arent over powered. so the nerf has to be pretty hard, and it really could have been much worse than this. But i think u can rig for speed and tank and have them both exceed previous levels, though im not 100% sure, it just comes at the expense of capacity. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1552
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 16:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
Axe Coldon wrote: It's NOT A COMBAT SHIP. It doesn't effect game play. If I need to move 5 Mil m3's around in Null. More or less capacity wont change anything.
everything after the first sentence is woefully ignorant. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1552
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 17:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I love the idea of lowslot fitting on freighters, but I firmly believe the DCU is too potent to balance a ship with such insane amounts of structure. Remove the ability to fit a DCU on a freighter if you give it a low slot.
then you're forcing all freighters to armour tank. They could still hull tank with bulkheads, but I still think that the best method of doing that would be to alter bulkhead fitting requirements and just make sure a DC would be out of reach for what you can get onto a freigther. So I really wonder what the effects would be if bulkheads became free to fit. Are any ships that could currently benefit from fitting them barred from doing so? Are there any ships where it's currently impossible to do so and where making it possible to fit bulkheads would massively alter their balance?
i dnt actually know if they have a CPU problem but hull tanked battleships with new hull rigs might be quite powerful. Provided they dnt need cargo EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1552
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 17:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Tippia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I love the idea of lowslot fitting on freighters, but I firmly believe the DCU is too potent to balance a ship with such insane amounts of structure. Remove the ability to fit a DCU on a freighter if you give it a low slot.
then you're forcing all freighters to armour tank. They could still hull tank with bulkheads, but I still think that the best method of doing that would be to alter bulkhead fitting requirements and just make sure a DC would be out of reach for what you can get onto a freigther. So I really wonder what the effects would be if bulkheads became free to fit. Are any ships that could currently benefit from fitting them barred from doing so? Are there any ships where it's currently impossible to do so and where making it possible to fit bulkheads would massively alter their balance? You are aware that bulkheads will reduce cargo, right? Cargo capacity is the raison d'+¬tre for freighters / jump freighters. CCP Fozzie wrote:We are also going to swap the speed penalty on all reinforced bulkhead modules to an equal percentage cargo capacity penalty. The agility penalty will remain intact at this time.
that only makes it even more appropriate EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1555
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Posted - 2014.05.19 17:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I'm sorry, but it is insane to balance agility, speed, capacity, and tank around such a powerful module.
which is arguably why rig slots were chosen instead of low slots. in order to accommodate the potential use of a DCII the nerf to freighter EHP would have been unpleasant. Rigs are permanent upgrades, and cannot be easily swapped to fit the situation. I'm alright with simply adding rigs to freighters, I'd prefer the ability to fit modules though. Preventing the use of DCU2's shouldn't be that arduous, and would allow a nice balance spot between the modules already in the game. Harder than you might think. Eve has no understanding of 'only these modules' or 'but not that class of ship' What eve are you playing? Bastion mods, siege mods, MWJD mods, strip miners.... all have ship restrictions tied them. Would it be a hack to say that this mod could fit on every ship but a freighter? Yes. Would it be hard to do based on current code? Doesn't seem likely.
saying a module can only fit on these types of ships appears to be different to saying a module can fit on everything but these types of ship.
perhaps u could do it the long way and say the the DC can only be fit on these (list of every ship of the game except freighters). but thats the difficult part, and something always goes wrong when u do it like that. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1555
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 18:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
Buzz Dura wrote:I did not find enough out of the box suggestion, here some :
add a med slot keep the only 1cpu/1PG
role bonus : Autopilot warp at zero Can fit Target Spectrum Breaker -100% requirement to Target Spectrum Breaker
out the box and into space EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1555
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 19:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
M0ND II wrote:racist carebaer tears that will probs get deleted
racist carebear tears. de-lish EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1555
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Posted - 2014.05.19 19:33:00 -
[49] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:M0ND II wrote:racist carebaer tears that will probs get deleted racist carebear tears. de-lish Americans is not a race.
FTFY EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1556
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Posted - 2014.05.19 20:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Batolemaeus wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:S1euth wrote:Does anyone actually find internet spaceship truck driving fun in this game? Why nerf something to ensure more time is spent doing something that is not enjoyable?!
This is an opportunity to make the game more fun. I would be very interested in hearing how you propose to make hauling "more fun". Do elaborate on that. You make hauling more fun by making it take less time. This is a zero sum game. Less time spent hauling is more time spent actually having fun in the game.
this is true.
missions also take too long and are boring. let me run missions faster but make the same amount of money per mission. what could go wrong.
Mining too falls into this scenario. increase my yield and lower cycle rate. i is good a economics :3 EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1559
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Posted - 2014.05.19 22:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
now burn jita is an exceedingly rare event EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1561
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 15:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Carniflex wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Carniflex wrote: The same warm feeling a JF pilot is getting from fitting these nice T2 rigs for getting back where it was. Like the fuel consumption increase would not have been enough to poke the smaller entities in the eye.
you haven't answered the question. if you're going to nerf guns by 40%, what is being given to players? That was the answer. The "warm feeling". The same thing the JF pilots are getting :) no, JF pilots get rigs. so again; what do i get if guns get a 40% nerf?
he doesnt get it. hes just blinded by nerd rage. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1561
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tippia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:he doesnt get it. hes just blinded by nerd rage. i get it, but you can't give me rigs if i already have them. so he simply didn't answer the question of; what do i get? but the fact that you couldn't see it, does dictate that you're blinded by nerd rage. He's talking about Carniflex. sigh, then there was absolutely no need for him to quote my post.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1562
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Posted - 2014.05.20 16:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
Robert71 wrote: So what is true? First post wrotes with T1 rigs less cargo than now. 9 posts later "T1 rigs are enough???"
base capacity is going down 30%.
but now u can fit 3 rigs, so max possible capacity is actually larger than current. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1564
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Posted - 2014.05.20 20:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:So can we all agree just to tell CCP don't push this update and leave the freighters alone? Yes. Although I'm warming up to the lowslot ideaGǪ bad tippia. no. no low slots. Don't fear the lowslots Dave. They too will come at a cost and we'll get another hundred pages of tears from people who can't do the math. Probably a pretty severe nerf to base stats. But the level of real flexibility should vastly outweigh changes to the base stats. Far more so than all this BS related to a discussion about rigs alone. At some point these ships have to come into the same realm as all other ships in the game. Either leave them alone (change is bad) or rebalance them from the ground up. i honestly don't think freighters need touching. they do what they were intended to do fine, the variation between races is good. there's no need to give them fittings, of any kind. they're probably the most well balanced ship class we have in eve in their current state. they don't need flexibility, they have one job; they move junk from A to B. a job that they do remarkably well.
u could remove racial freighters and make one ORE freighter. wouldnt change much. same with all haulers. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1565
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Posted - 2014.05.20 20:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:u could remove racial freighters and make one ORE freighter. wouldnt change much. same with all haulers. too much hassle. besides, the variation between races gives freighters "choice" as it is. especially since cross training for freighters is trivial now. Also the Provi/Ark is Sexy.
so sexy...and the only one i dnt have :( EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1566
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 22:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow. Thanks as always!
*smells cake that will be eaten too* EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1566
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 23:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
that i would like EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1567
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Posted - 2014.05.21 10:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Ladies and gentlemen this is your nightly message to let you know that I've caught up to this point in the thread and that we still have not forgotten about you. There's a version two of the design currently posted for the CSM in their internal forums, they've responded largely positively so far. I'm going to let them think about it overnight and if all looks good we'll post the proposal for public feedback tomorrow. Thanks as always! Too late, Fozzie, I'm already unsubbed... After all, this isn't first offense. If nobody is going to protect the industry from getting covered in Fozzie, might as well quit preemptively.
why post about it? just go. no one cares. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1568
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 13:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Well you should care, but you are too up your self to understand that if Eve keeps going this way then the only people left in Eve will be gankers, griefers, scammers, meta-gamers, power gamers
u mean the ppl that actually play this game?
if u want a non-PvP game like starcitizen then why did u join a PvP MMO in the first place? why are u in a game where ganking, greifing, scamming, meta-gaming and power gaming is not just ok, its applauded. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1569
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 14:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Well you should care, but you are too up your self to understand that if Eve keeps going this way then the only people left in Eve will be gankers, griefers, scammers, meta-gamers, power gamers
u mean the ppl that actually play this game? if u want a non-PvP game like starcitizen then why did u join a PvP MMO in the first place? why are u in a game where ganking, greifing, scamming, meta-gaming and power gaming is not just ok, its applauded. With such a poor, insignificant and one-dimensional combat pvp side, I doubt it's possible to call eve "PvP MMO". So basically you want to remove everyone who's only pvping on market, which is a lot more engaging than inferior combat pvp. What did they tell about "nerf everyone's playstyle except mine"? Oh, I remember - "HTFU". If you can only do combat pvp and can't engage on market, you suck, period.
thats it, use the butthurt. i love how u call combat one dimensional and then centre ur argument around one part of the game.
dnt mind that ganking is market PvP too. just ignore that many freighter pilots are PvP'ers too.
just stay in that small world of urs. bolt the doors, nail the windows shut. close ur eyes, cover ur ears and dnt let the bad ppl in. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1570
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:41:00 -
[62] - Quote
just realised the amount of shield and armour tanks given and with the low slots naturally giving resistance options to the provi and obe, the fenrir is looking hard done to.
- add 2 CPU to resistance plating? - speed buff? capacity buff to obe level? - low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1570
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:45:00 -
[63] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote: - low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters?
PDU!!!!!!
if thats a power dag, then cpu may be a bit of an issue... EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1571
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Can you, at least on the JF....maybe on the Freighter....put a little more wiggle room with the CPU to fit a DCU?
....
It's a good balance!
FFS. READ.
Xander Phoena wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Ok, these changes I'm happy with!
Now, can we get the CPU to 30 to put a DCU II on there? Then I'll happily buy one and use it alot! It was done this way to specifically avoid you being able to double your tank with one module. This. You aren't getting DCUs on a freighter. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1571
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Ammzi wrote:No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60% I never knew you were a Dev? (Only Devs can say no to something, not a player, get over yourself.)
and whos the pompous snout who thinks they're too good to take the feedback of their peers? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1571
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ok, new tables: GÇó New alignment times depending on base and a more balanced fit (red = worse than Rubicon, Green = better than rubicon). GÇó The full gamut of Tank vs. Cargo (red = worse than both base and Rubicon stats; yellow = better than Rubicon, worse than base; blue = better than base, worse than Rubicon; green = better than both). I haven't really done any other combos because the other sensible modules (CPR, istab, hacc) either have no effect at all or no effect that freighter pilots care about. tl;dr: the only ones who have anything to complain about anything anymore are gankersGǪ
looking at that. EHP could be nerfed a bit. triple cargo expanded freighters dont seem to suffer very much in the way of EHP EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1571
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:55:00 -
[67] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:why is the fenrir so much faster and mobile than the other 3? especially since gallente are meant to be the most agile
its the only redeeming feature of the fenrir. if anything, it could get some more agility and speed. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1572
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 17:18:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Aerissa Nolen wrote:Can CCP confirm that it is intentional for Providence and Fenrir to now have the same base cargo capacity? This is intentional, yes. How did you guys arrive at the numbers for the shield and armor increases? They seem a fair bit high to me. But at least you said "fair". And come on, shield and armor ain't saving you when the bad men come. Should you be chosen, chances are you've been scanned and were deemed both worthwhile and killable. The best tank is to make yourself the lesser of their possible targets through what you choose to carry onboard. The fit and tank is secondary.
ur logic works for lone buffer freighters.
but the provi and obe have fleet options the charon and fenrir dnt thanks to the combination of low slots and tank shift to shield and armour.
Armour freighter, resistance plating, damnation, guardians
O_o
as much as i love how this promotes fleeting and escorting. the shield freighters lack an equivalent. [edit] And it means that freighters sacrifice less when fitting for full cargo. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1572
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 17:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:addelee wrote: JF's are having their fuel usage increase by 50% in kronos.
This is not correct. The fuel change is currently scheduled for Crius. So still no comment on getting a role bonus on t1 freighters to at least to be able to fit a PDU?
let the PDU go. it'll never balance against resistance and layered plating. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1572
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 17:45:00 -
[70] - Quote
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Well you should care, but you are too up your self to understand that if Eve keeps going this way then the only people left in Eve will be gankers, griefers, scammers, meta-gamers, power gamers
u mean the ppl that actually play this game? if u want a non-PvP game like starcitizen then why did u join a PvP MMO in the first place? why are u in a game where ganking, greifing, scamming, meta-gaming and power gaming is not just ok, its applauded. Whoa whoa whoa, Whats all this talk of eve being a pvp mmo? Despite what most people think, eve isn't Unreal tournament Online in space. It is a sandbox game where you can do whatever you want. Non pvp players are the backbone of eve actually and make up a significant amount of subscriptions. Non pvp players, also known by the derogative term care bare(s) are provide for most of the things in eve except directly blowing someone else up. If this game was solely based on pvp then we would not have no industry, no pi, we'd have nothing actually. We'd be the online version of HOMEWORLD.
whoa whoa whoa, u have absolutely no idea what ur talking about.
PvP players mine too. PvP players market trade too. PvP players mission too. PvP players use freighters too. PvP player manufacture too.
no, the game does not depend on carebears for anything. they are no back bone for anything. This is a PvP game. u should look up the definition of PvP. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1573
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Posted - 2014.05.21 19:20:00 -
[71] - Quote
Vincintius Agrippa wrote: .........And you guys like to pretend that all you do is pvp.
Its genuinely difficult to articulate how much u fail.
Vincintius Agrippa wrote: Pay closer attention to what I was trying to say, 1. This game isnt solely about pvp. Never has, Never should be. I doubt anyone would enjoy the game if it was full of nuthing but gankers, greifers, and blobs. Once again its SANDBOX, make of it as you will. 2. Non pvp'ers and non pvp activities ARE the backbone of this game. For, if no one is building and no one is mining, what do you fight in? Capsules? Likewise, Pvp is also a backbone because they buy a significant amount of the things being built. 3. Mining: Carebear activity Missioning: Carebear Activity, Market trading carebear activity. Regardless of where and how you choose to do so. Most of which Is done with alts I assume. 4. Neither you or your alts is mining, missioning, or trading 23hrs a day 7 days a week like carebears in highsec. Or, any more than a few hours a day. If your are its afk. If its afk your a carebear just like the guys in highsec. If you arent, your still a carebear because your mining all day. 5. Your isk alts don't count. 6. Mining in nullsec doesnt make you not a carebear. 7 Missioning in null sec does not make you not a carebear.
8. Major alliances don't count because all of that mining and missioning happens in their space. So all those alts are "secure" so to speak.
Long story short, Carebearing supports eve. No matteer how you try to disguise it. End of discussion.
Edit: Fine, PVE isnt like regular carebearing. It's like PVE Carebearing.
*sigh* ill try one last time.
1. this game IS about players competing with eachother. They compete for resources, territory, prices and buying power and they attack eachother. Thats PvP.
2. When u mine, u are PvP'ing. When u sell an item on the market, ur PvP'ing. Its all PvP.
In answer to the other point as its just splurg: u can be a miner or a freighter pilot and not think it wrong that ganking is part of the game. i know, im one of those players. Many players contribute to the economy without being anti-PvP. So if all the anti-PvP players left tomorrow, the economy may notice, but it wouldnt break down.
long story short: this game does not depend in anyway on players who think its wrong that non-consensual PvP is part of this game (carebear). It in no way depends on players who think that ganking, scamming, meta-gaming etc should be made impossible. There are more than enough players who PvE and understand these plays are acceptable. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1573
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 20:24:00 -
[72] - Quote
still kinda worried about the armour freighters supported with logi and boosts.
provi with 185kehp in armour alone. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1573
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 13:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Pensador wrote:Thank God. For years all of we were expecting that. Maybe this is the end of Ganking freighters in high sec That will never end. But it will raise the safe for transport value of goods. And that is a good thing.
safety is not good in eve. Saftey promotes complacency. Risk rewards effort.
u want things to be difficult because u want to be rewarded for ur efforts and risk. U want ur competition to lose out because they are lazy and/or died in a fire.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1573
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 13:50:00 -
[74] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:Pensador wrote:Thank God. For years all of we were expecting that. Maybe this is the end of Ganking freighters in high sec That will never end. But it will raise the safe for transport value of goods. And that is a good thing. safety is not good in eve. Saftey promotes complacency. Risk rewards effort. u want things to be difficult because u want to be rewarded for ur efforts and risk. U want ur competition to lose out because they are lazy and/or died in a fire. Complacency leads to bigger whales. Bigger whales will be at risk.
i suppose ill have to wait and see.
just out of curiosity, how much would ppl charge for freighter ganking? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1574
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 14:32:00 -
[75] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:For those that suggest the CSM has no control over CCP, this is an object lesson.
Fozzie puts out moronic changes that carebears rage about and make threats of violence over, except the griefers.
FTFY EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1594
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 21:57:00 -
[76] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote: What have I missed?
that ur not meant to be able to create the old freighters?
there are ways to improve upon certain stats at the expense of others. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1594
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 23:09:00 -
[77] - Quote
dibble if u break the rules, post gets removed. simple as. dnt take it personally, it happens.
ppl on both sides have expressed themselves within the rules, u can too. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1594
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 23:51:00 -
[78] - Quote
Dibble Dabble wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:dibble if u break the rules, post gets removed. simple as. dnt take it personally, it happens.
ppl on both sides have expressed themselves within the rules, u can too. Thanks for the input. ISD do their best but they don't always get it right. Its their opinion V my opinion. Their opinion is always right even when its wrong. Just because ISD deleted some of my posts does not mean I am in the wrong, it just means one person with a delete button has taken a different view to my own. Of course I take it personally as I happen to believe I have not broken any rules. You should not believe that ISD are always right.
dnt think of it as whos right or wrong. take it as a strong suggestion to re-word ur opinions, and pay attention to the rules when re-writing.
ive had several 'opinions' deleted by Ezwal. but i dnt think he hates me...or at least i hope not. And dnt be surprised if all these posts are deleted too. discussing forum moderation is prohibited. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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