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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3135
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:00:00 -
[361] - Quote
Kat Ayclism wrote:And... that means... that you will always have to import... because someone else controls the production materials... If that importing is more difficult or has a high barrier to entry (which is what the fuel and freighter changes create) then you are NOT going to be producing in null- you're going to be doing so near your source for the materials... This is entrenched logic. It means you can import, or you can go fight the person you're buying from for the resources instead. You're seeing the problem but you're trying to solve it based on current logic, rather than re-thinking and coming up with another solution, aka adapting.
Quote:You seem to think continuing to attack me because you're butthurt about something I said on twitter is at all a good argument. I've not mentioned benefits or injuries to myself at any point, yet you've spent all but a small portion of this last post attacking me or my affiliation rather than having anything to say.
They have their incentives and approach to their goal set up backwards, which is what I've said from the very first post. That's far different from blindly hating it because it doesn't serve me. I didn't start by attacking you, I started by mocking your terrible all-caps rage post which didn't do anything close to expressing a logical train of thought. You've since wound that in and are now actually making points. Will CCP ever manage to create a landscape that looks like I think it will? I don't know. But if it is going to happen then it needs constructive criticism from all points of view, not thread-shitting by people more interested in sitting back and thinking "oh wow lolz what a sick burn I just did in all caps".
The other reason I quoted your post and said "ahahahahahaah" is because it's a hilarious over-reaction to what can barely be considered a nerf; 1-4% change. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Maxdig
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:00:00 -
[362] - Quote
Your Old Obelisk numbers are wrong by 100k. |
Dave Stark
5684
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:00:00 -
[363] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote:To me it seems like a really big burger full of fecal matter. yup, people were told it would be every time they asked for it. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
52
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:00:00 -
[364] - Quote
They jumped to that price about 10 seconds after Fozzie announced it on the stream. I was in Jita watching them. I am a poor so I certainly didn't buy any for 240mil and relist for 750. Not did I buy out almost all the t2 materials. I swear. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15569
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:01:00 -
[365] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:I'm surprised to see so many from Red-Frog whining. You should be happy, these changes will discourage quite a bit of your competition. Adapt and continue to dominate FFS. That is quite obviously a post from ignorance, so let me tell you how it is. Red/Black/Blue Frog do not really have any competition to begin with. Their market is those that are not part of an alliance with a large logistical backbone, Goon Logistics, N3/PL Logistics, BNI Logistics etc, are not actual competition to them as those alliances are not the consumer base.
Well in that case they can just raise their prices a bit and all is good. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3135
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:01:00 -
[366] - Quote
Caroline Grace wrote:I'm in the freighter business actively for over two years now and I have to say something about these changes. I don't agree with them, while I really like the idea of being able to modify my freighter by more or less tank/cargo/speed.
Freighter hauling is a very dull gameplay and I was hoping for some rebalance ideas that would actually reflect that. However, what I read from these changes, it is actually the opposite. Consider; every freighter pilot will now have to pay extra ~200m extra ISK for rigs to even activate this rebalance at the first place. This will not only annoy all freighter pilots, it will also raise the overall price of a freighter, raise the courier rewards to balance this ISK sink -> annoy contract customers and shake the business all around. And angry customers - not good!
While it is true you will be able to rig your freighter to the original state (for 200m) and getting extra ~4% cargohold capacity (while losing agility by adding the hull rigs), in the freighter world, the 4% cargohold capacity bonus means nothing and agility means everything. This business is all about speed, all about collateral numbers and all about round cargo capacity numbers when comes to hauling. I know this. I do this every day. It does not justify the extra 200m cost into every of your freighters from now on.
The other possibilities how to rig your freighters are good: being able to carry more and faster, but with less tank, this is in the true spirit of EVE and I would love pay for them if I would choose I would like to use them.
However, freighter business is already an extremely expensive business and these changes forces every freighter pilot to spend extra 200m to even enjoy the Kronos release and get either the same freighter as before or modify their freighter into weak/strong hybrid they might not even want.
Please reconsider these changes. Hauling is the backbone of every profession in EVE and freighter gameplay itself is a very dull and very soul-draining profession to do. I didn't and don't expect some massive gameplay overhaul for freighters, but at least do not hurt this unique, important and somewhat soul sensitive profession by forcing players to sink hundreds of millions ISK into getting the same slighty nerfed, or modified and overall still nerfed, freighters. Thank you.
You're basically saying you're against CCP adding fitting slots to your ship, because you have to pay for the modules that go in them? I don't honestly know how you think CCP can work around that.
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Paranoid Loyd
488
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:01:00 -
[367] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:I'm surprised to see so many from Red-Frog whining. You should be happy, these changes will discourage quite a bit of your competition. Adapt and continue to dominate FFS. That is quite obviously a post from ignorance, so let me tell you how it is. Red/Black/Blue Frog do not really have any competition to begin with. Their market is those that are not part of an alliance with a large logistical backbone, Goon Logistics, N3/PL Logistics, BNI Logistics etc, are not actual competition to them as those alliances are not the consumer base.
What in my post lead you to believe I was referring to null-sec logistics?
I was referring to the competition that comes from most solo players using their own freighter as opposed to using a dedicated logistics service. Those that are discouraged from these changes will now be more likely to seek alternatives to investing in the necessary components to adapt to these changes.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
KBLUEJACK54
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:03:00 -
[368] - Quote
Looooool..Rigs in Jump freighters, Just accept the nerf guys, the best...or rather the worst is yet to come, just wait till they turn there attention to the Rorqual as that grinning fool announced at fanfest.
Capital Industrial ships romping around belts just because some rabid PvP Dev thinks it is a 'Good Idea', makes you wonder what these guys are smoking nights.
Thanks CCP for offering Null Sec everything and giving them nothing. |
Talcuris
Dragon Clan Nulli Secunda
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:07:00 -
[369] - Quote
Those JF changes ... wow that hurts like anything. I was kind of excited when the rig slots were anounced at fanfest that there would actually be a choice of rigs. Alignment speed, warp speed, tankyness, cargo hold ... With the nerf to cargo holds, it becomes just about absolutely impractical to fit anything BUT cargohold expanders.
So, in total an almost unnoticeable buff to cargoholds with T2 rigs.
That's it for the positives, on the negative side: Cost for a JF goes up by more than a billion. Cargohold rigs hurt the tankyness that was switched to armor, making them even more squishy after people have been complaining for years that they are too fragile to survive anything but the cheapest suicide gank. Align time goes way up. Fuel gets much more expensive.
All that for what, around 10k m-¦ more cargo space? We expected that there'd be something to make it impossible to hit the 500k mark for the ihub upgrades, but this? Losing 100k m-¦ is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much to make anything except cargo rigs viable, and the really exciting thing was to have a choice. This makes the heavy nerfs even more bitter to swallow. Don't know about elsewhere, but you've managed to sink the mood on the TS here straight to rock bottom. |
Kelgh
Egg Operations
5
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:08:00 -
[370] - Quote
KBLUEJACK54 wrote:Looooool..Rigs in Jump freighters, Just accept the nerf guys, the best...or rather the worst is yet to come, just wait till they turn there attention to the Rorqual as that grinning fool announced at fanfest.
Capital Industrial ships romping around belts just because some rabid PvP Dev thinks it is a 'Good Idea', makes you wonder what these guys are smoking nights.
Thanks CCP for offering Null Sec everything and giving them nothing.
yeah like any one is going to put that ship in the belts
CCP needs to start playing the game |
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Staaren
Egg Operations
1
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Posted - 2014.05.17 22:12:00 -
[371] - Quote
Here is a thought:
CCP give some industrialist players in Eve jobs as Devs and put them in charge of balancing ships, especially with your intentions & focus of Kronos.
|
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1508
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:13:00 -
[372] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote:
I was enthusiastic when CCP Fozzie announced rigs for freighters at Fanfest. The way these are going to be implemented, if that really is the final word, makes it seem like there's no real gain for the freighter pilot.
because u thought u were getting a straight buff to a ship that didnt need a buff. No real gain other than choice was due. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Caroline Grace
Grace Stellar Conveyance Inc.
523
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:14:00 -
[373] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: You're basically saying you're against CCP adding fitting slots to your ship, because you have to pay for the modules that go in them? I don't honestly know how you think CCP can work around that.
Low slots. No rigs. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
53
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:15:00 -
[374] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Abulurd Boniface wrote:
I was enthusiastic when CCP Fozzie announced rigs for freighters at Fanfest. The way these are going to be implemented, if that really is the final word, makes it seem like there's no real gain for the freighter pilot.
because u thought u were getting a straight buff to a ship that didnt need a buff. No real gain other than choice was due.
Not necessarily. But I didn't expect a huge overall nerf.
That being said I am overall OK with the changes as long as they either fix the Rhea cargo or normalize fuel usage. |
Talcuris
Dragon Clan Nulli Secunda
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:17:00 -
[375] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Abulurd Boniface wrote:
I was enthusiastic when CCP Fozzie announced rigs for freighters at Fanfest. The way these are going to be implemented, if that really is the final word, makes it seem like there's no real gain for the freighter pilot.
Talcuris wrote: I was kind of excited when the rig slots were anounced at fanfest that there would actually be a choice of rigs. Alignment speed, warp speed, tankyness, cargo hold ...
because u thought u were getting a straight buff to a ship that didnt need a buff. No real gain other than choice was due.
Yeah, but the point stands that there _is_ no choice now. I can take nerfs, but this on top of that, thanks a lot. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1508
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:20:00 -
[376] - Quote
Talcuris wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Abulurd Boniface wrote:
I was enthusiastic when CCP Fozzie announced rigs for freighters at Fanfest. The way these are going to be implemented, if that really is the final word, makes it seem like there's no real gain for the freighter pilot.
Talcuris wrote: I was kind of excited when the rig slots were anounced at fanfest that there would actually be a choice of rigs. Alignment speed, warp speed, tankyness, cargo hold ...
because u thought u were getting a straight buff to a ship that didnt need a buff. No real gain other than choice was due. Yeah, but the point stands that there _is_ no choice now. I can take nerfs, but this on top of that, thanks a lot.
u can exceed a current freighters capacity. u can exceed a current freighters tank. u can exceed a current freighters speed.
but u cant have all three at once. u have to choose. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Paranoid Loyd
488
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:20:00 -
[377] - Quote
Caroline Grace wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote: You're basically saying you're against CCP adding fitting slots to your ship, because you have to pay for the modules that go in them? I don't honestly know how you think CCP can work around that.
Low slots. No rigs.
And we've come full circle, too bad it's too late now.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6306
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:21:00 -
[378] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote: u can exceed a current freighters capacity. u can exceed a current freighters tank. u can exceed a current freighters speed.
but u cant have all three at once. u have to choose.
Which is the problem in the first place.
They wanted it all, without having to think about it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
151
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:22:00 -
[379] - Quote
Horrible. We wanted flexiblity in using freighters and you give us the one solution that costs a ton of ISK to make changes unless you want to have 5 Charons all configured differently with different rigs.
Someone please Fire CCP Fozzie and find a competent replacement. Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
609
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:22:00 -
[380] - Quote
You are also missing the three rig slots on the Charon and Obelisk.
I took the liberty of cleaning it up for you: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Cws5fKMYvZjZFCAFaNM9PZuszil-dX3Cc-dEXq0-svc/edit?usp=sharing This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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Ari Kes
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:23:00 -
[381] - Quote
Lyn Fel wrote:Way to take a dump on haulers Fozzie. Less tank+less agility+less cargo space but if you spend a lot more isk on your already expensive ship you can fix one, maybe two of those nerfs. Not to mention the 50% more fuel consumption coming soon.
I assume that your goal is to spread industry out all over null so that local markets can do everything themselves. Unfortunately, I believe that the exact opposite is what's going to happen. Hauling nerfs are going to cause people to congregate even more closely together than they already do, not encourage them to spread out more. There just aren't enough people interested in doing every aspect of industry in every corner of the universe and forcing people to do things that they don't want to do doesn't generally work out well.
In such cases usually time only tells how things unfold. However in light of the proposed changes, I have to agree with the above answer. |
Dave Stark
5685
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:23:00 -
[382] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote: u can exceed a current freighters capacity. u can exceed a current freighters tank. u can exceed a current freighters speed.
but u cant have all three at once. u have to choose.
Which is the problem in the first place. They wanted it all, without having to think about it.
they had it all.
guess the grass isn't greener after all. |
Caroline Grace
Grace Stellar Conveyance Inc.
524
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:24:00 -
[383] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:And we've come full circle, too bad it's too late now. Not sure what you mean, but I was never in the hype train for freighter rigs. |
Talcuris
Dragon Clan Nulli Secunda
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:27:00 -
[384] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Talcuris wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Abulurd Boniface wrote:
I was enthusiastic when CCP Fozzie announced rigs for freighters at Fanfest. The way these are going to be implemented, if that really is the final word, makes it seem like there's no real gain for the freighter pilot.
Talcuris wrote: I was kind of excited when the rig slots were anounced at fanfest that there would actually be a choice of rigs. Alignment speed, warp speed, tankyness, cargo hold ...
because u thought u were getting a straight buff to a ship that didnt need a buff. No real gain other than choice was due. Yeah, but the point stands that there _is_ no choice now. I can take nerfs, but this on top of that, thanks a lot. u can exceed a current freighters capacity. u can exceed a current freighters tank. u can exceed a current freighters speed. but u cant have all three at once. u have to choose.
I'm not talking about freighters. I haven't looked at them that hard, but at a glance they seem kind of okay'ish. A jump freighter with ~250k m-¦? With all the other nerfs and raised operational costs? Actually, now that I think about it, this makes the Rorqual stiff competition for low/null sec logistics. Well, they did promise to make the Rorqual more useful. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
53
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:27:00 -
[385] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote: u can exceed a current freighters capacity. u can exceed a current freighters tank. u can exceed a current freighters speed.
but u cant have all three at once. u have to choose.
Which is the problem in the first place. They wanted it all, without having to think about it.
Or You can have cargo rigs nerf structure. Agi rigs nerf structure Hull rigs nerf cargo |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
77
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:27:00 -
[386] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: This is entrenched logic. It means you can import, or you can go fight the person you're buying from for the resources instead.
You spelt "and" wrong. Unless you have found a magical teleportation technique that can move isotopes from regions on the other side of the map to the region where they are needed. |
Paranoid Loyd
488
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:27:00 -
[387] - Quote
Caroline Grace wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:And we've come full circle, too bad it's too late now. Not sure what you mean, but I was never in the hype train for freighter rigs.
I wasn't singling you out, but referring to the conversation in general. Just continuing the theme of be careful what you wish for. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3137
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:29:00 -
[388] - Quote
Caroline Grace wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote: You're basically saying you're against CCP adding fitting slots to your ship, because you have to pay for the modules that go in them? I don't honestly know how you think CCP can work around that.
Low slots. No rigs. Low slots are even more problematic than rigs, and would require even larger reductions in base cargo/HP. Then you would be whining even more.
Freighter pilots were asking CCP over and over for the ability to fit rigs, and they got it. Now suddenly this is the worst change ever. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Dave Stark
5686
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:29:00 -
[389] - Quote
Batolemaeus wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote: This is entrenched logic. It means you can import, or you can go fight the person you're buying from for the resources instead.
You spelt "and" wrong. Unless you have found a magical teleportation technique that can move isotopes from regions on the other side of the map to the region where they are needed.
i thought JFs were the magical teleportation technique used to move things from one side of eve, to the other? |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
39
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:30:00 -
[390] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Talcuris wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Abulurd Boniface wrote:
I was enthusiastic when CCP Fozzie announced rigs for freighters at Fanfest. The way these are going to be implemented, if that really is the final word, makes it seem like there's no real gain for the freighter pilot.
Talcuris wrote: I was kind of excited when the rig slots were anounced at fanfest that there would actually be a choice of rigs. Alignment speed, warp speed, tankyness, cargo hold ...
because u thought u were getting a straight buff to a ship that didnt need a buff. No real gain other than choice was due. Yeah, but the point stands that there _is_ no choice now. I can take nerfs, but this on top of that, thanks a lot. u can exceed a current freighters capacity. u can exceed a current freighters tank. u can exceed a current freighters speed. but u cant have all three at once. u have to choose.
Not by much for an extreme price Not by much and not enough to matter. Not by much and who gives a shite
So what was the point? |
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