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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1574
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 14:32:00 -
[2341] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:For those that suggest the CSM has no control over CCP, this is an object lesson.
Fozzie puts out moronic changes that carebears rage about and make threats of violence over, except the griefers.
FTFY EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Gumpy Bitterhawk
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
6
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Posted - 2014.05.22 14:45:00 -
[2342] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:Pensador wrote:Thank God. For years all of we were expecting that. Maybe this is the end of Ganking freighters in high sec That will never end. But it will raise the safe for transport value of goods. And that is a good thing. safety is not good in eve. Saftey promotes complacency. Risk rewards effort. u want things to be difficult because u want to be rewarded for ur efforts and risk. U want ur competition to lose out because they are lazy and/or died in a fire. Complacency leads to bigger whales. Bigger whales will be at risk.
Frankly, Japan and Norway dont give no *****. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11703
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 14:51:00 -
[2343] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:For those that suggest the CSM has no control over CCP, this is an object lesson.
Fozzie puts out moronic changes that the entire Eve universe hates, except the griefers. Fozzie says he will talk with the CSM, and they are giving him good ideas. 72 hours later, Fozzie does a 180 and puts out changes past CSM members are stating are what the CSM wanted all along.
Rigs on freighters were the brainchild of people like you. The gankers were always against the idea. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
14
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Posted - 2014.05.22 14:52:00 -
[2344] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:baltec1 wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Rowells wrote:plex hauling here I come Erm GǪ wouldn't you be better off hauling PLEX in a blockade runner, since you have the cloak and an incredibly short align time and high warp speed? If you have a brain, what you really want to use to carry PLEX is a shuttle to get to the target location then redeem your PLEX once you are in the right station. You should carry as many as possible too. I must of worded that poorly. I meant you don't put the PLEX in the game until you are in the right station. Is there a mecanic I'm missing where there is a need to move PLEX around?
Spies. If you are paying or plexing a spy account ejecting the plex from your cargo and him picking it up is the only way that you can plex him without a record of the transfer. |
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
34
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Posted - 2014.05.22 14:54:00 -
[2345] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
Spies. If you are paying or plexing a spy account ejecting the plex from your cargo and him picking it up is the only way that you can plex him without a record of the transfer.
Or buy GTC on forums? |
Dareth Astrar
Astrar Logistics and Engineering
20
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 14:58:00 -
[2346] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone the Op has now been updated with a revised version of the design. As many of you were anticipating, we will be achieving the goal of customizability through low slots instead of rig slots. Big thanks to everyone who has provided reasoned feedback in the thread and special thanks to the CSM.
Thank you for listening.
Valterra Craven wrote: I like this better but I still don't like the fact that armor can be tanked somewhat (resistance plates) and shields can not. This wouldn't have been a big deal had you leave HP values in hull so every could tank roughly equally, but since you guys moved such a large chunk of HP to shields and armor this seems to be an unfair advantage for armor based races.
I wish i knew how to edit EFT files to create fits based off this to see just what the difference is.
It's a valid point. There are ENAM's for armour tanks, but I don't recall a low slot shield resist module aside from the DCU, which we have been read clearly stated as not going to be a freighter suitable module.
That does swing things rather heavily one way on tanking front, which to be fair, does give you a reason other then racial role play to fly those other freighters now.
OK, there's a very sizable hit from Cargo Expander's negative to hull points for these ships, but I still think this is a better place then the previous rigs option. |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
15
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Posted - 2014.05.22 15:02:00 -
[2347] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
Spies. If you are paying or plexing a spy account ejecting the plex from your cargo and him picking it up is the only way that you can plex him without a record of the transfer.
Or buy GTC on forums?
You pay money for eve?! |
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 15:04:00 -
[2348] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
Spies. If you are paying or plexing a spy account ejecting the plex from your cargo and him picking it up is the only way that you can plex him without a record of the transfer.
Or buy GTC on forums? You pay money for eve?! No silly. You buy GTC for isk there for your spai alt. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
60
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Posted - 2014.05.22 15:05:00 -
[2349] - Quote
Dareth Astrar wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone the Op has now been updated with a revised version of the design. As many of you were anticipating, we will be achieving the goal of customizability through low slots instead of rig slots. Big thanks to everyone who has provided reasoned feedback in the thread and special thanks to the CSM. Thank you for listening. Valterra Craven wrote: I like this better but I still don't like the fact that armor can be tanked somewhat (resistance plates) and shields can not. This wouldn't have been a big deal had you leave HP values in hull so every could tank roughly equally, but since you guys moved such a large chunk of HP to shields and armor this seems to be an unfair advantage for armor based races.
I wish i knew how to edit EFT files to create fits based off this to see just what the difference is.
It's a valid point. There are ENAM's for armour tanks, but I don't recall a low slot shield resist module aside from the DCU, which we have been read clearly stated as not going to be a freighter suitable module. That does swing things rather heavily one way on tanking front, which to be fair, does give you a reason other then racial role play to fly those other freighters now. OK, there's a very sizable hit from Cargo Expander's negative to hull points for these ships, but I still think this is a better place then the previous rigs option.
Freighters nor jump freighters will have the CPU to use an EANM either
They can use a ANP, which generally give less overall EHP than bulkheads. However 3 ANP also give great resists on an Ark, which lend itself very well to repping.
So, to prevent ganks, bulkheads are the way to go for strictly overall buffer, but if you want a bait ship, a JF with ANP x3 will be a friggin beast. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1090
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 15:08:00 -
[2350] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
Spies. If you are paying or plexing a spy account ejecting the plex from your cargo and him picking it up is the only way that you can plex him without a record of the transfer.
Or buy GTC on forums? You pay money for eve?! No silly. You buy GTC for isk there for your spai alt.
You could also use any of the toon on the 2 other slot on the spy account to deal with the PLEX since the sub is account wide, not linked to the character... |
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Angelique Duchemin
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
793
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 15:15:00 -
[2351] - Quote
And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs. The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity. |
Sixx Spades
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
185
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Posted - 2014.05.22 15:16:00 -
[2352] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future. |
Dave Stark
5970
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 15:18:00 -
[2353] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs.
such are the dangers of patch speculation. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
532
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 15:23:00 -
[2354] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs.
You deserve it for trying to profit on the misery of others. Shed your tears into my bucket, maybe I can use them for some useful stuff.
|
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
34
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Posted - 2014.05.22 15:24:00 -
[2355] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs. All according to keikaku. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3946
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Posted - 2014.05.22 15:27:00 -
[2356] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs. such are the dangers of patch speculation.
After I read the original post, I bought capital cargo optimization, warp speed, and agility rigs. Then plugged them into my lab to research them to ME 10 so they'd be perfect come industry changes. Now I'll have a bunch of pretty useless rig BPO's, but I'll gladly sacrifice 250m in rig BPO's for the awesome set of changes!
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Sael Va'Tauri
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2014.05.22 15:28:00 -
[2357] - Quote
So, with the changes to potential EHP of a tanked Freighter, you might need the larger volley damage from a decent number of Tornados instead of a horde of catalysts to gank a freighter? I'm not sure that's the end of the world outside of a longer train time for the gank alt. What is the major problem here, again? Freighter pilot wants to carry something low volume and expensive, and tanks up - is there a reason that shouldn't require an increase in isk on the ganker side?
If you just want to grief freighter pilots, that should be easier with catalysts now given that you'll see a number of them running 3x cargo expanders... |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3061
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 15:50:00 -
[2358] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs. You deserve it for trying to profit on the misery of others. Shed your tears into my bucket, maybe I can use them for some useful stuff.
Actually, the ones who profited were the ones that quietly bought up the rigs and rig components weeks before the changes were announced, and dumped them within hours of the first fozzie posts. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1090
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 15:53:00 -
[2359] - Quote
Sael Va'Tauri wrote:So, with the changes to potential EHP of a tanked Freighter, you might need the larger volley damage from a decent number of Tornados instead of a horde of catalysts to gank a freighter? I'm not sure that's the end of the world outside of a longer train time for the gank alt. What is the major problem here, again? Freighter pilot wants to carry something low volume and expensive, and tanks up - is there a reason that shouldn't require an increase in isk on the ganker side?
If you just want to grief freighter pilots, that should be easier with catalysts now given that you'll see a number of them running 3x cargo expanders...
You only switch from DPS to alpha if don't have the time to apply the DPS. Either because the security status of the system is to high or the target is getting massive reps between gun cycles. |
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 16:21:00 -
[2360] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs. You deserve it for trying to profit on the misery of others. Shed your tears into my bucket, maybe I can use them for some useful stuff. Actually, the ones who profited were the ones that quietly bought up the rigs and rig components weeks before the changes were announced, and dumped them within hours of the first fozzie posts. Well that was risky too. Freighters could get only large rigs not capital. |
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3946
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 16:24:00 -
[2361] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs. You deserve it for trying to profit on the misery of others. Shed your tears into my bucket, maybe I can use them for some useful stuff. Actually, the ones who profited were the ones that quietly bought up the rigs and rig components weeks before the changes were announced, and dumped them within hours of the first fozzie posts. Well that was risky too. Freighters could get only large rigs not capital.
Fozzie's initial post clearly stated Freighters would use capital sized rigs. |
Dave Stark
5972
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 16:38:00 -
[2362] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:And a big "screw you" to the people who spent isk hoarding capital cargo rigs. You deserve it for trying to profit on the misery of others. Shed your tears into my bucket, maybe I can use them for some useful stuff. Actually, the ones who profited were the ones that quietly bought up the rigs and rig components weeks before the changes were announced, and dumped them within hours of the first fozzie posts. Well that was risky too. Freighters could get only large rigs not capital. Fozzie's initial post clearly stated Freighters would use capital sized rigs.
yeah but the announcement of "freighters get rigs" happened a fair while before "freighters will use capital rigs". |
HandelsPharmi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
577
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 16:49:00 -
[2363] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: The base EHP of all Freighters and Jump Freighters is being increased (since Expanded Cargoholds affect freighter hp more than cargo rigs do) and more emphasis is being placed on armor and shield than before (although all Freighters still gain the majority of their hitpoints from hull). Note the change in the Jump Freighter HP bonus, which now only applies to their main tank and hull. The large increase in JF base HP and resist more than make up for the bonus change and all JFs have more base EHP than before.
ARK
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L; Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 5(+4) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12000(+6000) / 63600(+26400) / 96000(-15000) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 47.5(+7.5) / 62.5(+12.5) Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 34.375(+9.375) / 40(+20)
78 / 71 / 71 / 74 Armor Resistance is possible with a Armor tank without a booster or anything else... this is... amazing |
Valterra Craven
249
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 17:11:00 -
[2364] - Quote
So I've been playing around with the fitting tool here:
http://xyjax.com/optimizer_kronos/
and the most comparable fit to today is the following (for t1 freighters)
2x t2 Cargo holds 1x t2 ANP
This fit will yield a slight nerf to current m3 numbers for a slight boost in EHP numbers (this of course assumes all skills except racial freighter at 5 with the racials being at 4)
This fit also comes with a nerf to max velocity since cargo holds have not one, but two penalties.
Fozzie, any chance we could get a slight max velocity boost on all the freighters? Maybe 15-20m/s ? |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
74
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 17:16:00 -
[2365] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The permanence of customizability that relies completely on rigs. As the only classes to have rig slots alone with no fitting slots, Freighters and Jump Freighters would have allowed customization towards a player's most common use cases, but would still lack the very important ability to adjust fittings in response to changing needs and environments. 1) Contracts. We use them.
2) Fitting a ship means making a decision. It's interesting to make difficult decisions and face the consequences. It's not interesting to make clicky-clicky to swap to one of predefined standard fits like "max cargo" or "max speed".
3) The difference between "adjustment" and "total repurposing" is crucial. If I put 3x trimarks on my battleship, it is doomed to be passive armor tanked. I can choose to fit more tank or DPS depending on ~environments~ but god forbid if I put a shield booster and go ratting. You dont allow total repurposing even for T3 ships - yet - but allow it for T1 Freighters and "specialized" T2 JFs, seriously?
CCP Fozzie wrote: The relative lack of interesting choices for Jump Freighter pilots. Fuel rigs would have solved that issue much more elegantly. Because capital power projection in not what we want to stimulate, do we? And those abominations, warp speed modules... |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
76
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 17:27:00 -
[2366] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos. Will these modules be made exclusive to jump freighters or will other caps be able to use them? Because if it's the latter you're basically just giving capital ships reduced fuel consumption in certain circumstances. Of course that could be mitigated by making them really big (e.g. 4,000 m3 like other capital mods) so you can't refit them without sacrificing huge portions of your fleet hangar. More information on these modules will be given at a later point.
Fozzie - if players aren't doing anything interesting with their Jump Freighter i.e. jumping station to station, why feel the need to give them interesting options via a new mod? Not that I am adverse to saving some fuel, just not understanding the impetus to make up a mod using the logic that there aren't enough "interesting options for Jump Freighters". Especially when they are be given a bunch of new options for doing things that are as interesting as Jump Freighters get. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
376
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 17:37:00 -
[2367] - Quote
fozzie since they are getting lows can we just make them all armor tank? the shield freighter i cant help but feel if they wanted to armor resistance up wouldnt have a opportunity to do it as effectively as the armor tanked ones.
just throw out rp reasons and make them all armor tanked. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
532
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 17:49:00 -
[2368] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote: 2) Fitting a ship means making a decision. It's interesting to make difficult decisions and face the consequences. It's not interesting to make clicky-clicky to swap to one of predefined standard fits like "max cargo" or "max speed".
I hope you understand the difference between Fitting and Rigging. All your examples fall in the Rigging part and have little to do with Fitting. They influence and "restrict" your fitting capabilities and that's it. |
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 19:39:00 -
[2369] - Quote
I do think that the change from rigs to slots is a good one, both in terms of cost and options. However, I am a bit concerned about the decision to only allow low slots.
CCP Fozzie wrote:The base EHP of all Freighters and Jump Freighters is being increased (since Expanded Cargoholds affect freighter hp more than cargo rigs do) and more emphasis is being placed on armor and shield than before (although all Freighters still gain the majority of their hitpoints from hull). (boldface added for emphasis)
This statement would seem to indicate that using either armor or shield to tank a freighter should be viable options, but the limitation to low slots only means that there really are only options to boost armor. You even list armor tanking modules as an expected choice for freighter pilots. But where are the shield options?
Basically, if you're going to start adding slots to freighters, don't do the job halfway; give the ships a full suite of slots and fitting options. |
Hiryu Jin
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
35
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 19:50:00 -
[2370] - Quote
seriously, just admit this was a terrible idea, leave things the way they are and move on to something else. |
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