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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
542
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Posted - 2014.05.28 15:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's common wisdom that you can fly an autopiloted Charon Freighter with 1 billion ISK worth of cargo. Any more, and gankers are going to profit from suicide ganking you in high-sec.
With max skillz, the current Charon is a little over 167k EHP.
I've also been able to fit a Kryos T1 mineral hauler to 21.3 EHP, that's about 1/8 of a Charon, and thus logically it can safely transport 125M ISK worth of minerals on autopilot.
I've got a current T2 Bustard Transport, max AFK-tanked to about 55.3k EHP, which according to my calculations is 330M ISK worth of stuff, but it can't be very bulky.
But CCP are going to change both the Charon and the Bustard.
What will the new gank value thresholds be for AFK-autopiloted ships? Charon gets new options, but since it's primarily shield tanked it may be hard to actually tank it up, as it only gets LOW slots and gets crappy fitting stats.
The Bustard is, AFAIK, going to get a resists boost, so might become a bit tankier. Not sure how much it'll otherwise change. TheT1 industrials aren't going to change, at least not any time soon. |
Jeann Valjean
Justified Chaos
35
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Posted - 2014.05.28 15:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
1) Do the math. If you don't understand the math, or how people got those numbers, look that up instead.
2) Charon is not shield-tanked.
3) Do not spell skills with a "z" again.
Edit: And stop hauling anything in your Kryos until you follow through on #1. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
336
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Posted - 2014.05.28 17:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
4) Don't AFK in space |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
446
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Posted - 2014.05.28 17:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
5) Definitely don't post on the forums that you AFK in space and in what ships with exact EHP readouts and cargo values. |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Never Night
230
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Posted - 2014.05.28 18:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
6) Don't autopilot.
Edit: Why were you flying an interceptor with a survey scanner. They don't mine particularly well I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses.............. |
Bronson Hughes
14
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Posted - 2014.05.28 19:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Salpad wrote:What will the new gank value thresholds be for AFK-autopiloted ships?
That depends on what you're moving and where (in addition to what you're flying, which you've already provided). Give us some more details and we may be able to help you.
Salpad wrote:Charon gets new options, but since it's primarily shield tanked it may be hard to actually tank it up, as it only gets LOW slots and gets crappy fitting stats.
FYI: None of the freighters are shield tanked. The Charon has the most shields of any Freighter, but it, like all of its brethren, have far more armor and structure. That's why they're getting the role bonus to allow them to use Reinforced Bulkheads.
Hero Tank FTW.... |
Oxide Ammar
131
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Posted - 2014.05.28 19:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Manual piloting freighters for 20+ jumps is one the most astonishing experience I have ever experienced in EVE. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1146
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Posted - 2014.05.28 19:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Assumption is the mother of all **** ups, so I've heard.
Recalculate, including the variable reasons for ganking other than monetary profit. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1103
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Posted - 2014.05.28 19:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Don't AFK haul more than you can afford to lose.
That's the only rule. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
873
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Posted - 2014.05.28 21:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:5) Definitely don't post on the forums that you AFK in space and in what ships with exact EHP readouts and cargo values. I disagree. You should post the route you're taking, what you're hailing, and the loadout of your ship. This is showing those nasty gankers who's boss and that you're not scared of them! |
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Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2014.05.28 21:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Salpad wrote:But CCP are going to change both the Charon and the Bustard.
What will the new gank value thresholds be for AFK-autopiloted ships? Charon gets new options, but since it's primarily shield tanked it may be hard to actually tank it up, as it only gets LOW slots and gets crappy fitting stats.
I disagree as the freighters have 100k - 120k hull with one Damage control II you get 2.5x EHP. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1352
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Posted - 2014.05.28 21:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atomeon wrote:I disagree as the freighters have 100k - 120k hull with one Damage control II you get 2.5x EHP.
And pray tell how you plan on fitting a DCII (30 CPU) on a ship with 1 CPU and 3 PG? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1186
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Posted - 2014.05.29 00:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:FYI: None of the freighters are shield tanked. The Charon has the most shields of any Freighter, but it, like all of its brethren, have far more armor and structure. That's why they're getting the role bonus to allow them to use Reinforced Bulkheads.
Hero Tank FTW.... Actually the changes favor the shields on a Charon over armor now, though hull will still have the highest HP. |
Froggy Storm
Paragon Trust The Bastion
251
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Posted - 2014.05.29 00:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:FYI: None of the freighters are shield tanked. The Charon has the most shields of any Freighter, but it, like all of its brethren, have far more armor and structure. That's why they're getting the role bonus to allow them to use Reinforced Bulkheads.
Hero Tank FTW.... Actually the changes favor the shields on a Charon over armor now, though hull will still have the highest HP.
But no mids to improve the shield where as lows boost the armor/hull. Doesn't that leave it as mostly irrelevant unless you have a shield logi with you? At which point afk stops being an issue anyhow. |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum New Eden's Misfits Alliance
8
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Posted - 2014.05.29 02:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
So it takes 15 max DPS cattys to gank a charon in a 0.5 ( Such as niarja ) thats about 150 Million ISK to kill your autopiloting freighter with a bil in cargo. Now lets say a quarter of your value drops. well thats an 100m profit for the gankers after SRP. So no your math is sadly flawed and your charon has now become a target for gankers when on autopilot i bet.
And for those of you that say cattys cant gank on gates because of the lack of tank, your right, but an autopiloting freighter is extra easy to bump out of range Christopher "The Mabata" CEO, Black Ops Admiral, And Head US TZ Diplo Dominion Tenebrarum / New Eden's Misfits Alliance / The Dark Corner Coalition |
0rch1d
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
3
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Posted - 2014.05.29 02:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
AFK hauling?
This is like filling a U-Haul and then driving it with your eyes closed.
It doesn't work right on any medium. |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum New Eden's Misfits Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.05.29 02:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
0rch1d wrote:AFK hauling?
This is like filling a U-Haul and then driving it with your eyes closed.
It doesn't work right on any medium.
Hahahaha Excellent comparison Christopher "The Mabata" CEO, Black Ops Admiral, And Head US TZ Diplo Dominion Tenebrarum / New Eden's Misfits Alliance / The Dark Corner Coalition |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1186
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Posted - 2014.05.29 02:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:FYI: None of the freighters are shield tanked. The Charon has the most shields of any Freighter, but it, like all of its brethren, have far more armor and structure. That's why they're getting the role bonus to allow them to use Reinforced Bulkheads.
Hero Tank FTW.... Actually the changes favor the shields on a Charon over armor now, though hull will still have the highest HP. But no mids to improve the shield where as lows boost the armor/hull. Doesn't that leave it as mostly irrelevant unless you have a shield logi with you? At which point afk stops being an issue anyhow. It factors base resists in which changes the dynamic a bit. Most of the freighters seem to be gaining more than they lose thus making them a bit more natively tanky and giving them greater benefit outside of resist holes, further providing resistance against common tools like the talos which doesn't fall into those holes.
That said eve for armor freighters capable of fitting ANP's the best bet for increasing EHP seems to be bulkheads. |
Froggy Storm
Paragon Trust The Bastion
251
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Posted - 2014.05.29 03:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Wonder if there will be any chance at a hull logi in the future. Perhaps something in the way of a new ore subcap. |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum New Eden's Misfits Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.05.29 03:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:Wonder if there will be any chance at a hull logi in the future. Perhaps something in the way of a new ore subcap.
well there are hull reps, and some ships get a bonus to them If i remember correctly Christopher "The Mabata" CEO, Black Ops Admiral, And Head US TZ Diplo Dominion Tenebrarum / New Eden's Misfits Alliance / The Dark Corner Coalition |
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
542
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Posted - 2014.05.29 05:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jeann Valjean wrote:2) Charon is not shield-tanked.
Pay attention to Dev Blogs, F&I dev posts, and so forth! The Charon and the other Freighters are going to be changed. I'm talking about their after-change stats, not their current stat. |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum New Eden's Misfits Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.05.29 05:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Jeann Valjean wrote:2) Charon is not shield-tanked. Pay attention to Dev Blogs, F&I dev posts, and so forth! The Charon and the other Freighters are going to be changed. I'm talking about their after-change stats, not their current stat.
Its you who need to pay attention to Dev Blogs or be more specific, even after Kronos the Charon will not be shield tanked: Quoting the Dev Blog here: CHARON
Caldari Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Maximum Velocity
Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L; Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 60 / 0.0625 / 960,000,000 / 83.18s / 1.37 Cargo Capacity: 465000(-320000)m3
So unless you mean the Rhea which gains 5% to shield HP per level ( which still isnt much tank on a freighter especially with a lack of resists in said shields ) Then your still wrong, and if you are talking about the Rhea be specific Jump freighters and normal freighters are not the same thing Christopher "The Mabata" CEO, Black Ops Admiral, And Head US TZ Diplo Dominion Tenebrarum / New Eden's Misfits Alliance / The Dark Corner Coalition |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
281
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Posted - 2014.05.29 08:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Salpad wrote:It's common wisdom that you can fly an autopiloted Charon Freighter with 1 billion ISK worth of cargo. Any more, and gankers are going to profit from suicide ganking you in high-sec.
With max skillz, the current Charon is a little over 167k EHP.
I've also been able to fit a Kryos T1 mineral hauler to 21.3 EHP, that's about 1/8 of a Charon, and thus logically it can safely transport 125M ISK worth of minerals on autopilot. Even assuming the correctness of the initial premise the scale you're applying should not be so linear. While it is possible to ISBoxer a 15 pilot gank Catalyst fleet the majority of gank groups are likely still live pilotted... It's a lot easier to get a couple of guys to sit at a gate than it is to get ten - and a couple of guys are likely to have a lot more choices of target than ten. And if it takes 15 catalysts to gank a freighter and your fleet can only get ten then you'll have to use Vexors, Talos or 'nados (changing the cost ratio). The cost of ganking a freighter therefore will include the annoyance of that fleet organisation - the cost of ganking a shuttle and pod (one arty thrasher) is (probably) lower than the linear scale... |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
127
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Posted - 2014.05.29 10:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:Salpad wrote:Jeann Valjean wrote:2) Charon is not shield-tanked. Pay attention to Dev Blogs, F&I dev posts, and so forth! The Charon and the other Freighters are going to be changed. I'm talking about their after-change stats, not their current stat. Its you who need to pay attention to Dev Blogs or be more specific, even after Kronos the Charon will not be shield tanked: Quoting the Dev Blog here: CHARON Caldari Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Maximum Velocity Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L; Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 60 / 0.0625 / 960,000,000 / 83.18s / 1.37 Cargo Capacity: 465000(-320000)m3 So unless you mean the Rhea which gains 5% to shield HP per level ( which still isnt much tank on a freighter especially with a lack of resists in said shields ) Then your still wrong, and if you are talking about the Rhea be specific Jump freighters and normal freighters are not the same thing Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750) |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum New Eden's Misfits Alliance
10
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Posted - 2014.05.29 14:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:Salpad wrote:Jeann Valjean wrote:2) Charon is not shield-tanked. Pay attention to Dev Blogs, F&I dev posts, and so forth! The Charon and the other Freighters are going to be changed. I'm talking about their after-change stats, not their current stat. Its you who need to pay attention to Dev Blogs or be more specific, even after Kronos the Charon will not be shield tanked: Quoting the Dev Blog here: CHARON Caldari Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Maximum Velocity Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L; Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 60 / 0.0625 / 960,000,000 / 83.18s / 1.37 Cargo Capacity: 465000(-320000)m3 So unless you mean the Rhea which gains 5% to shield HP per level ( which still isnt much tank on a freighter especially with a lack of resists in said shields ) Then your still wrong, and if you are talking about the Rhea be specific Jump freighters and normal freighters are not the same thing Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750)
If you look carefully you should realize you gain a small amount of shield and lose a large amount of armor and Structure ( All freighters are structure tanked FYI ) this is roughly the equivalent of putting a large shield extender II on an orca and calling it shield tanked because it now has a bit more Shield EHP. Still Hull tanked hate to break it to ya
Christopher "The Mabata" CEO, Black Ops Admiral, And Head US TZ Diplo Dominion Tenebrarum / New Eden's Misfits Alliance / The Dark Corner Coalition |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
323
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Posted - 2014.05.29 20:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:chaosgrimm wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:Salpad wrote:Jeann Valjean wrote:2) Charon is not shield-tanked. Pay attention to Dev Blogs, F&I dev posts, and so forth! The Charon and the other Freighters are going to be changed. I'm talking about their after-change stats, not their current stat. Its you who need to pay attention to Dev Blogs or be more specific, even after Kronos the Charon will not be shield tanked: Quoting the Dev Blog here: CHARON Caldari Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Maximum Velocity Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L; Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+ 44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 60 / 0.0625 / 960,000,000 / 83.18s / 1.37 Cargo Capacity: 465000(-320000)m3 So unless you mean the Rhea which gains 5% to shield HP per level ( which still isnt much tank on a freighter especially with a lack of resists in said shields ) Then your still wrong, and if you are talking about the Rhea be specific Jump freighters and normal freighters are not the same thing Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750) If you look carefully you should realize you gain a small amount of shield and lose a large amount of armor and Structure ( All freighters are structure tanked FYI ) this is roughly the equivalent of putting a large shield extender II on an orca and calling it shield tanked because it now has a bit more Shield EHP. Still Hull tanked hate to break it to ya
+44,000 (Forty Four Thousand) is a tad bit more shield than a large shield extender II. The new Charon will have ~233% more shields than armor, and only ~33% less shield than structure. That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money.... |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1186
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 21:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:chaosgrimm wrote:Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750) If you look carefully you should realize you gain a small amount of shield and lose a large amount of armor and Structure ( All freighters are structure tanked FYI ) this is roughly the equivalent of putting a large shield extender II on an orca and calling it shield tanked because it now has a bit more Shield EHP. Still Hull tanked hate to break it to ya Your definition of large and small needs work as the 2 supposedly large changes to armor and hull combined are less of a raw HP difference than the "small" shield change.
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.05.29 22:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
If you put bulkheads in the lows don't you now have a massive hull tank? You can't make the shield tank much bigger, only slightly bigger.
Just my 2c. I'll go away now since I likely have my foot in my mouth and don't know it yet. |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
452
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Posted - 2014.05.29 23:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:chaosgrimm wrote:Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750) If you look carefully you should realize you gain a small amount of shield and lose a large amount of armor and Structure ( All freighters are structure tanked FYI ) this is roughly the equivalent of putting a large shield extender II on an orca and calling it shield tanked because it now has a bit more Shield EHP. Still Hull tanked hate to break it to ya Your definition of large and small needs work as the 2 supposedly large changes to armor and hull combined are less of a raw HP difference than the "small" shield change.
Passive resistance in shield + armour makes those EHP values a lot higher. It also means that logistics ships are going to be able to tank you through a gank so you can travel in a gang with high-value goods and not get instantly blapped by a meagre amount of ships. Combine that with fleet bonuses... I'm thinking trash fit ships might struggle to gank them more.
It raises the suicide cost of killing these ships significantly. |
Praxis Ginimic
North Korean Space Program Advanced Amateurs
792
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 07:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
This has been a fun supposition but I think its time to be realistic about our indy friends.
If you think for 1 minute that those lows won't be filled with either cargo expanders or the new faster-warpy-thingies then you're kidding yourself. Sure some smart pilots will put bulkheads in there but smart pilots don't AP through Udeama. What's more, smart gankers (and most of them are at least clever) will be adding a ship scanner right next to the cargo scanner to make sure they prey on the dumb ones.
Result: frieghters just got a whole lot less expensive to gank.
Edited for reasons you will never truly understand |
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