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infraX
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Posted - 2006.06.06 09:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: infraX on 06/06/2006 09:54:36 From what I've seen, it seems the devs are keen to remove instas. I'm not hell bent on having them removed but I have some suggestions for consideration once this inevitable change is brought in. Having instas removed will be good for a few reasons.
Firstly, it should take a lot of pressure off the database as bm's won't have to be loaded and copied about anymore which can only mean less lag for all of us.
Secondly, it removes some of the invulnerability when traveling around. It's annoying chasing down a target that has a good set of instas and can sometimes make it nearly impossible to catch them (especially if your own aren't up to par for the particular area of space you are chasing them in.)
My idea would be to totally remove insta's and change the default warp in point to something like 5km and keep the current 2.5km jump proximity (idea open to negotiation.) This means that we can all travel on autopilot (through high sec ) a little faster. Having the 2.5km to travel means it would be faster to move gangs around in smaller ships and more cumbersome to move a big fleet of battleships (as I belive it should be). A side effect of this is perhaps we will see more smaller ships being used in pvp a bit more often - cruiser gangs anyone? It also means that to bring out the heavy metal requires us all to be a bit more serious about a bigger engagement rather than battleships being the 'norm' in pvp.
My last suggestion (here's the good part), make it so that you cannot use a jump gate (or dock for that matter) while warp scrambled. This rp's very well (something do do with warp scramblers messing with more than just the ships warp drive and affecting it's docking and jumping interfacing subroutines aswell). This takes away some of that invulnerability factor for people that are on the run using instas - it means that people can be caught and killed, with bigger ships being more cumbersome and vulnerable if caught without support. It also highlights on inerceptors being used to zoom on ahead with mwd's to intercept larger enemy ships while your own support catches up.
One last thing I need to mention. I am totally AGAINST any sort of skill training to improve default warp in distances or anything related. I think people have enough new skills to worry about these days and I don't want to see newer players even more disadvantaged in pvp because they don't have 'Jump Proximity Level 5' trained. It also rules out a bit of discrimination with having said players in gangs.
Comments/suggestions welcome from fellow players and devs
edit: typo
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Arushia
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Posted - 2006.06.06 15:18:00 -
[2]
One idea on reducing bookmark table size not related to instats. Have and object you anchored act as a bookmark. It's annoying to have to bookmark a secure can after I've deployed it.
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Lobo Noturno
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:31:00 -
[3]
I am sorry to say this, but it seems that these instas fixes are oriented only to benefit pirates and gatecampers. Not to mention make any solo traveling in low-sec and 0.0 impossible.
As it is right now, instas only help on arriving at a jump gate, and require that the player using them either created them first, or bought from someone that did it. They do not help after the jump(most times I've been poded was on the other side of the jump.), so they are far from being too powerfull. They actually require that the attacking group has a decent strategy to stop the target ship.
Things will change anyway when the new 3d-scanning/navigation system is implemented, and after the new system has been checked and it's problems identified, we can come back to this discussion. If you want to pirate, get someone on your gang to fly an interdictor.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:48:00 -
[4]
"From what I've seen, it seems the devs are keen to remove instas."
No, they are *interested* in removing them, but fully admit that a plain removal is not possible at this point, even if their genesis was unintentional.
"change the default warp in point to something like 5km"
In a even slightly laggy environment, that gives you just enough time to see your ship blow up whe the sniper BS kill you. You come in at zero speed, STOP then accelerate to the gate. Using a MWD is sucidal, and an AB dosn't significantly speed acceleration.
"My last suggestion (here's the good part), make it so that you cannot use a jump gate (or dock for that matter) while warp scrambled."
Right, so you really want a truly dramatic reduction in the number of targets? If people know they won't be able to run, then they either fit WCS or they just don't take the risk. Because you seriously shift the risk/reward balance without offering anything at all to compensate for the dramatically raised risk.
People won't stop bringing BS, they won't come at all if they feel that they are guaranteed to die (regardless if they actually ARE or not).
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Velsharoon
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:00:00 -
[5]
WTS Maya Rkell
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framolia
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Posted - 2006.06.06 20:35:00 -
[6]
There are many people out there who will quit if insta's are removed.
I have spent plenty of time making insta's for my personal routes through the Eve Universe. I have tried to go 0.0 and if insta's were removed i wouldn't stand a chance in hell. CCP say they are listening to the community about wanting insta's removed, but the opinion is untrue.
Eve has been going now for 3 years and it seems its mainly those with plenty of experience whining for their removal. These people have time and experience so travelling without them isn't too risky, but for young charecters, without insta's they don't stand much of a chance. |
infraX
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Posted - 2006.06.07 09:36:00 -
[7]
Some good points there Maya, I do agree with all of them. I was just thinking out loud really. I don't really know what changes, if any should be made. I only hope that if changes are made, they don't make the situation worse somehow. I want the devs to seriously think long and hard about any possible negative effects before they change anything.
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Shadowraven213
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Posted - 2006.06.08 11:38:00 -
[8]
i totally agree with the point about scramblers disalowing jumps im unsure about docks, maybe a longer timer to redock at the same station might be an idea, as for instas themselfs i think disalowing bookmarks within x number of units to gates might be possible to implement (although it will likely be quite hard and needing a very drastic change in code) but i can see so many things wrong with allowing everyone to warp right to a gate instantly, think about how hard it is now to chase people who have instas even if you do - you have a fraction of a second or so before they initiate jump to kill them and that just isnt enough sometimes :)
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Lenus Daragio
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Posted - 2006.08.17 22:05:00 -
[9]
One, I agree with being able to use a module to keep people from using a jump gate to run away, however, I don't think that it should be a warp scrambler...
This just doesn't make any logical sense, the only real way to do it is to have another module do that, such as a subspace distorter or what not. This is because the way the jump gates work is much different from the way a warp drive works. IMO, it would be cool that warp disruptors would keep someone from jumping, but I don't think that it would work, and would also lean very much in favor of solo pirates. Also, if you have subspace distorters or whatever you want to call them, you'd have the stabs for subspace distorters.
Two, as for instas, the fix for this is making bookmarks client side. I know what you're thinking "Exploits 4tw." Nope. Since all of these bookmarks are already in the databse on the server side, all you are doing is using your client to link to these bookmarks.
Another way to solve the insta problem, while still allowing them somewhat is by limiting the amount of bookmarks a single character can have, to say, 500 bookmarks.
Personally, the skill thing wouldn't bother me, as long as the gang leader would be able to warp everyone in at the same distance.
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Saibotek
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Posted - 2006.08.21 17:16:00 -
[10]
Stopping some one from Jumping. Isn't that what interdiction spheres and webifiers do? those mechanics are already ingame. why do we need to bring another plus for the pirates in. instas. I agree the should be client side to take the load off the server. they should not be allowed to be sold or traded. isnt that what covert ops is for? sneaking around in places where you dont belong? not for gang sniping at 200k i dont think anything smaller than artillery or cruise missiles should go that far. lets have a little realism in the game. if you are going to name it after something realistic. make it perform like it was real. big heavy slow BS that takes a wicked beating, or small fast frigate that does little damage and runs like the ****ens. just my .02 isk not a carebear grief just possibilites for balance.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.21 21:36:00 -
[11]
Remove instas, 0km warps, AND add new ways for pirates to catch people, including some which work in Empire.
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Jack Leo
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Posted - 2006.08.22 17:23:00 -
[12]
Introducing a new BM type, where you warp within 2km of the gate would be a decent idea. That way the DB won't have to store 'x' ammount of BMs that are all from one gate to another gate. Where each BM is slightly different from the other one.
Or make gate instas a static table and when each player obtains such BM they get a reference to that table. Which means as long as no new systems are added the gate to gate insta portion of the DB won't grow.
This raises an issue on: how to get such a BM? should you be able to copy it? should players be able to trade them? etc...
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Valator Uel
Caldari Pax Minor Asylum Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.08.22 19:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jack Leo Or make gate instas a static table and when each player obtains such BM they get a reference to that table. Which means as long as no new systems are added the gate to gate insta portion of the DB won't grow.
This raises an issue on: how to get such a BM? should you be able to copy it? should players be able to trade them? etc...
A static table seems like a nice idea.
how to get such a BM?: You could download the gate "address" or coordinates by visiting the gate and by using either a module, a skill (maybe one of these many hacking/special skills), both module or skill or simply by right clicking -> download gate address. should you be able to copy it?: imo yes, but there still needs to be a time limit between "copying" them as there is now, it's the only thing stopping everyone from having every BM (and price too).
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