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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.06.09 22:51:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Y'laaris Brood
I gather what most people do is offline the module so as not to get the negative effects, when they need to hide they safespot, let cap regen, then online the module and cloak.
But what is the point? At the time you want to USE the module, then you will be paying the negative effect. Taking your cloak offline (and I'm not even sure that DOES avoid the negative effects) removes your advantage at the same time as it removes the penalty...so again, what is the point?
Cloaks are fine, leave them be.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Ange1
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Posted - 2006.06.10 13:25:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Ange1 on 10/06/2006 13:30:42
Originally by: Grey Area
I can't believe Ange1 said cloaked combat ships AREN'T gimped...has he SEEN the bit on the cloak info about 40% increase to scan resolution? Fitting a cloak is like firing a sensor dampener at yourself...
I say this from experience. I have worn a cloak on all of my combat ships since even before The Establishment and I was still in Shinra. When I created the corp with DeMundus, we took that idea and kept it as part of our philosophy and a core part of our tactics. You might ask yourself how that even works for us, but the point is, it does and has served us very well because we adapted around those inherant disadvantages and learned to make the cloak work for us.
The penalties for wearing them on our larger ships can be a downside at times, but the greater tactical advantages that come from using them are well worth it. Think beyond the scope of just using them to sit in a SS and scout the enemy . I believe some NFC and FLA are crying for cloaks to be nerfed because of our mass cloak useage there recently.
I would not be opposed to an anti-cloak module, simply because there is no official countermeasure module (though I saw a "cloak pulse" on the Database on EVE-I before it died, perhaps a placeholder for something CCP was going to put in), but at the same time, the cloak has enough inherant disadvantages as it is.
The Establishment is at your service...
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.06.10 18:27:00 -
[63]
The "Cloak Destabilization Pulse" was a high-slot mod that took 30 cap to uncloak anything within 12.5km of you. The best one had a 15km range. Never implemented, and I can understand why, since it would make gate camps impervious to CovOps bypasses.
But without gate camps, the only reason for a cloaked ship to be that close to you would be for an ambush, or because you were actively hunting it. If gatecamps get taken out, replaced a superior mechanic for interstellar travel (I'm still in favor of having jumps land you within 10AU of the star), then these should be put in.
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kveldulfson
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Posted - 2006.06.11 07:12:00 -
[64]
We have seen this before many times. And my answer is the same Cloaked ships are hidden and there should not be a new weapon to find them.
On the other hand I do feel that only specialist ships should be able to fit them.
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kirjava
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Posted - 2006.06.11 14:22:00 -
[65]
I read a similar discussin some weeks ago. I forgte the name of the person that wrote it, but it was along these lines.
A POS is mounted with an ice intensive, module. This module can only be activated once every 12 hours or so, and lasts for 5-10 min. I disrupts all cloaks in the system for said time, then cools down. Also, system soverighnty would be required.
In this way you can find a cov-ops ship, but only if you own they system, thus your territory that they have infiltrated.
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.06.12 03:34:00 -
[66]
While that is a more reasonable sounding idea, if you are a Covops pilot, you are going to have your finger on the button to warp to the next SS. As soon as the cloak is compromised, you are off. Move around for the next ten minutes to avoid being pinpointed and then cloak as soon as you can. After that, you have 12 hours of peace and quiet.
Result, more coding for the devs, a system that has very little chance of helping you to find a Covops ship and even more moans and groans that it isn't powerful enough. Since the prescedent has been set, tweaks are made and the timer brought down to every hour, more moans and so on... Eventually, a system that completely wipes out any advantage a Covops ships has rendering the Covops pointless and useless.
There *are* ways of detection as I found out while thinking I was safe in a Covops. Just because you have not yet figured them out, it's not a viable excuse to make Covops obsolete.
--
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Zuek
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Posted - 2006.06.12 05:29:00 -
[67]
I'm all-for a device that will detect a cloaked ship. Too often I have guys sit in our systems cloaked then go AFK for several hours. Such tactics are griefing. Nothing more or less.
The device to find them however, should not be short range, nor should it be easy. I suggest specialist probes that can "detect the spatial disturbances caused by an active cloak".
* The probes would have similar ranges to the existing probes, 3, 12, 48 and 96 AU range.
* They should require some high skills (eg Astrometics 5 then a new skill Advanced Astrometics)
* They might require to be fitted to a covops or ship with an EW bonus.
I suggest an additional "cloak buster" smartbomb that will project a cloak destabilisation wave in a 100km radius. That device would have a reasonably high energy requirement like a NOS and would be used once the prober has located the cloaked vessel with a short range probe.
* This method would thus enable people to ferret out a lazy / griefing covert pilot who cloaks at a SS and goes AFK, knowing he's perfectly safe.
* It would not gimp an awake and moving covert pilot.
* It would not detect a covert-capable ship that is not currently cloaked.
* It would not noticably change the fly-by tactics used by covert pilots.
Zuek
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kirjava
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Posted - 2006.06.13 18:50:00 -
[68]
Edited by: kirjava on 13/06/2006 18:51:19
What was in mind when that strategy was deviserd, was that in a home system, not a random system with pirate gankers XYZ looking for easy kills. IF the pilot has gone AFK, then there is a way to disable the cloak and find him with scan probes. As i type this, i realise that a covert ops ship should have a counter in a cov-ops ship. Perhaps a high skill intensive probe (think on par with night hawk SP needed) that lasts perhaps 20 miniutes that sees through a cloak. Discuss.
EDIT, typo.... must train typo scillz up...
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Bloodsong
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Posted - 2006.06.13 23:25:00 -
[69]
Did you guys forget about Large smartbombs? |
Audri Fisher
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Posted - 2006.06.14 05:36:00 -
[70]
More presices scanprobes. won't be a nerf to atk clokers, since they would be short range, i.e. on the same grid, so somebody ****ing them off shows up on overview.
If you just sit there while somebody warps in in the middle of nowhere, and let them scan you down, that's your own damn fault.
This prob should require high skills, and only be used on covert ops frigates, otherwise, fleets will simply spam the things.
Maybe they should only give a direction and a bearing, since they are short range.
Bottom line is that there should be a some sort of counter to a covert ops frig, but it should be difficult, and IMHO require the use of another cov ops pilot. Yes the point of a cloke is to stay hidden and deny combat, but guns are made to get me into trouble, but that doesn't meane I should always get my fight everytime I mount a tech II rail.
same reason why the best subhunter is a another sub.
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.06.14 08:09:00 -
[71]
Just add Cloaked Signature to the Standard scanning method. Then have tactical overlay that shows a Big Red Blob Where the ship was Scanned last. So you move into that blob and prey to decloak it.
And Bring in Decloaking Smartbombs, with like 10k radius.
Im a Covert ops pilot BTW Flying all types. And even I apprecaite that there needs to be somesort of premenstrual Nerf placed here.
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cytomatrix
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Posted - 2006.06.14 09:16:00 -
[72]
Edited by: cytomatrix on 14/06/2006 09:16:30
Whats the point? You are not supposed to find a cloaked ship.
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Vortex Freeman
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Posted - 2006.06.14 09:57:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Vortex Freeman on 14/06/2006 09:57:29
Every action will create a reaction, it's the nature of warfare since the first time a rock was picked up and hurled in anger. It's perfectly reasonable to have a counter for cloaked ships, if CCP want this game to progress.
In what form and shape? CCP will figure something out, there's been lots of ideas and suggestions posted in various threads.
---
<S>
~ Preparatus Supervivet ~ |
Drizit
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Posted - 2006.06.14 10:07:00 -
[74]
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd
And Bring in Decloaking Smartbombs, with like 10k radius.
So gate campers can find Covops every time without even trying. Very smart.
--
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.06.14 12:49:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Drizit
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd
And Bring in Decloaking Smartbombs, with like 10k radius.
So gate campers can find Covops every time without even trying. Very smart.
Yep ! After all thats whole point behind this. Covert ops Use instas JUST the same as Everyone else so it wouldn't affect the gate campint sitiuation.
The only thing that it would do would stop Covert ops getting to close to a ship that they think has it.
I AM A COVERT OPS Pilot you MORON !
Currently there is No way at all to find a cloaked ship other than getting something with in a certain range, To a Better Than average pilot Wou will never be caught if you are cloaked.
unleashing drones is Poinless Because you cant send them to an empty point in space.
There needs Some way to decloak the cloaker.
The only Cloaked vessels that get caught these days are the ones that make mistakes !
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Felcas
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Posted - 2006.06.14 18:42:00 -
[76]
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
AND
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Sig removed, please keep it below 24000 bytes, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
___________________________________
I love trade - the market is my battlefield
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Darpz
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Posted - 2006.06.14 21:00:00 -
[77]
no, because leaving my recon loged on in enemy rating systems while i'm at work is to much fun 
then I get home from work to find:
A an empty system (mission accomplished)
B Enemy hiding or camping station waiting for me (mission accomplished since they made no iskies while at work)
C they are ignoring me and rating (  )
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Adriana Cita
Gallente
Ominous Corp
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:46:00 -
[78]
Personally, if your going to nerf the ability to hide with a cloak, I'd say then you'd have to nerf every other form of defensive abilities in EVE. Warp bubbles shouldnÆt stop people off of the gate (since there is only one way around them, but by the time you know they are there, your dead anyways), dictor bubbles should have a very short range (since we all know that when your 5k away you still cannot warp), smart bombs should not take out dictor probes, sensor dampeners shouldnÆt work at all, etc etc.
Yes, cloak can be used offensively, but, when your setting up for an ambush, 99% of the time the people you are ambushing are sitting on the **** gate or station, aligned, etc.
If your using your cloak to attack easy prey, like in a Stealth Bomber for example, your ship is paper thin, you get one or two rounds off and if he isnÆt dead, heÆs got a lock on you, and your screwed then.
Cloak is a Cloak, to remain invisible û un-scalable etc, to be able to pick your fights or to ambush. I personally like the adrenaline rush of a tough situation.
The cloak offers a level of uncertainty to the play of the game, you donÆt always know where your enemy/victim is IRL, so whatÆs the difference. For me to jump into system and then not show up on scanners, while your sitting on the gate scares you. You cannot see where I am and you donÆt know if I have any buddies coming through. Its a tactical advantage, but so is dropping a cyno and bringing in 10 carriers (maybe we should nerf that too, and yes, i know your stuck there for 5-10 minutes, but who hasnÆt trained up a disposable alt), or jumping 40 people through the gate.
Cloaking ships like the covert or recon warp in cloak to do RECON, its unseen surveillance. Ships like a battle ship (and you can use a cloak effectively on them) have to warp in uncloaked, true they can sit at a safe spot cloaked, but to move again they have to de-cloak - nullifying their ability to get up and personal without being seen unless they were sitting there already. And even then they have to wait 4 to 10 seconds to fire, and at a slower rate to lock.
Leave the cloak alone. Focus on Raven stab W$%#7ES who you have in your sites but warp off because you donÆt have a fleet holding them down, or the people who log off when your blowing their ship up because they donÆt want to loose it (stupid freighter pilots, scrammed 4 points and you get to keep your ship)...
The point of my rant is, leave the cloak alone, and focus on things that really matter.
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Paladineguru
Gallente
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:01:00 -
[79]
if you used half of your brain to think about a solution vs whining on forums, you would take and put up cans in a perimeter and send ur drones at those :) or use jet cans laid out in a grid
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Sarah Meiskin
The Syndicate Inc
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:06:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Sarah Meiskin on 17/11/2006 19:06:50
Edited by: Sarah Meiskin on 17/11/2006 19:06:18
Aren't you already going to be able to scan out cloaked ships in Kali? something about the new way Scan Probing works, you can scan them out, you just warp to them and still can't see them, you gotta find 'em and uncloak 'em from proximity.
Info Clicky
"Cloaked ships will be scanable, but they won't get uncloaked if they are found on the scanner." (Near the bottom of Initial Post)
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Szabberin Ferrana
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Posted - 2006.11.21 09:02:00 -
[81]
Im just learning the cloacks (because I was harassed a lot by cloacked AFK guys), so I have divided opinion on the scannable cloacked ships.
So I think, cloacking is good as is, there should be only one nerf: to get the guys who AFK for hours just to harass the miners/haulers/small ships on the local.
So I think, some kind of device with relatively long detection time (eg probes with 3-4-5-6 mins detection time) would be a nice addition. This wont stop ever the active covops pilots to play their hide n seek game, but stops the AFK griefers.
As I learned AFK in EVE never safe. Except for a cloacked ship on SS --> this should be eliminated, nothing else.
If someone wants to eat his lunch or walk to the park for refreshment, then he should quit the game, and log in later.
So after all Im praying for the cloacked ship scanner probes 
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St Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.11.21 18:11:00 -
[82]
You all seem to be forgetting 2 things [apart from the fact that covert ops are supposed to be invisable]
1. Bookmarks for gate traveling and station docking will soon be obseleet when warp to 0km is live.
2. CCP have changed the scanner system where you can actully get a rough idea of a cloaks position at long range.
-----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.11.21 18:32:00 -
[83]
The module EXISTS but it's (afaik) never been seeded.
Name ?
'Voila' Cloaking Pulse I
What it does ?
Imagine a "smartbomb" with 15km radius that does no damage whatesoever but instead decloaks everything it hits.
That's about it.
_____
-sig-
This is my only char. These are my skills
Always question everything, including yourself |
Ryo Jang
Central Defiance
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:52:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Alessandra Grey
Easy solution: no. Why? The most common place you see cloaking devices irl is in Star Trek, and do they have a counter to it? Hell no. Every time a ship decloaks its "oh @#$% theres a romulan/klingon/etc ship decloaking!". Thats the same way it should stay here. Cloaks are so you can be undetectable. If anything, cloaks should be improved so that things that are supposed to be incorporated into the game (like smuggling of illegal goods) can actually take place without running a 99.98% risk of being concordowned. Guess would be that the OP got ganked by a covops and wants to ease his pain. Next thing we know, people will want another missile nerf...sheesh.
dude, in star trek you can uncloak and immediately target things. that doesnt happen here. imo, ships which use prototype cloaking devices should have a chance to be discovered on the scanner. more than once i have tried to kill isk farmers ratting in my alliances space, only to have them warp off to a ss, cloak, and be unfindable, and hence unkillable. combine that with warp core stabs, and you see the problem.
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Lisian Tonoko
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:58:00 -
[85]
Discovering cloaked ships should be hard, kind of like Star Trek universe hard.
Bring up the technobabble and skills before you find them mother...fingers.
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Ryo Jang
Central Defiance
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:34:00 -
[86]
hard yes, but not impossible. and im talking about the prototype cloaks, not covert ops cloaks. the prototypes should have bugs, the cov ops should be perfect.
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Commander Din
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:54:00 -
[87]
How about cloaked ships don't show up in local first!
Cause as it is now, if you see a cloaked ship's pilot in local everyone knows you'll be scowering all over the system trying to find that cloaked ship with the little device you have to find them.
Cloaks are the only things that keep some ships alive. Scouts play a vital role, even if they are annoying to see in local and you can't seem to do anything about it.
What's really annoying is that a battleship can use the same exact cloak as a frigate. I think cloaks should have sizes, and maybe have requirements that increase with the size of the ship... so that a battleship might have to sacrifice a bit more then a single gun to be able to cloak up.
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Szabberin Ferrana
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:07:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Commander Din
How about cloaked ships don't show up in local first!
While at first glance I shouted WTF, maybe it can be a solution against the "Im AFK but shut down every mining operation" guys, what Im looking for.
However, it may be give more power for the cloak, which might be not the best way....
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Kittamaru
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:11:00 -
[89]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=424405
Check it yo :)
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Kittamaru
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Posted - 2006.11.22 17:48:00 -
[90]
Well... technically they have.
A Tachyon Pulse will show the location of a cloaked ship via the disturbance in tachyon particles.
It makes sense- throw a handfull of dust out of the ship around where you think the cloaked ship is- where the dust doesn't "settle" or any distrubance in the dust, there's your ship. It's only invisible- it's physical body is still there :)
I'd like a Star Trek: Nemesis style of finding cloaked ships- set your guns to manual control and fire a 360* arc at 0* elevation, then move up and down from there untill you find him, at which point you attempt to co-ordinate fire via the shield impacts :)
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