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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Khatred
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Posted - 2006.06.09 17:16:00 -
[1]
I think you forgot the part where if for some unknown reason (not computer or internet related) you put a job in factory, waiting to be accepted (you know, it's far from fast) and get disconnected, all the t1 ships and components vanish into thin air. _______________________________________________
Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.09 17:18:00 -
[2]
You just killed a HAC
Petition already, you'll get it back in a while. I doubt you need the ISK in a hurry
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Khatred
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Posted - 2006.06.09 17:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Khatred on 09/06/2006 17:21:36 No, I don't need the isk in a hurry but due to a recent event, I have very little time to play left. And I don't want to wait days or weeks until I get a response (not to mention the dreadful "our logs yadda yadda".
Edit: and my complaining is not quite related to the loss (around 2.5 bil isk) but to a not sufficient tested manufacturing system. _______________________________________________
Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.06.09 17:28:00 -
[4]
so which hac prices is going to drive that accident even higher?
oh and plz send me a billion iskies, i am poor
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Khatred
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Posted - 2006.06.09 17:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tiuwaz so which hac prices is going to drive that accident even higher?
oh and plz send me a billion iskies, i am poor
That would be the Vagabonds, next month. And now I am poor too _______________________________________________
Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.06.09 17:39:00 -
[6]
You just killed three little HACs... please, think of the little HACs
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
------------------------------------------ Dev Responses to common questions |
Khatred
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Posted - 2006.06.09 17:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sensor Error You just killed three little HACs... please, think of the little HACs
Unfortunatly this is a serious complain. I wish it was just a whine about the manufacturing system _______________________________________________
Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.06.09 18:04:00 -
[8]
The problem isn't the S&I system.
The problem is seated in Reykjavik and is meant to test stuff. They're successfully evading any semiintelligent testing for 4 years and called QA team.
If ccp'd be constructiong buildings, they'd be out of business from the start because they're not doing the calculations to make their product stable. Worker: Hey boss, when two people are on the stairs, the flight will break down! Boss: Your concerns don't impress me. Build it. --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Varis
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Posted - 2006.06.09 18:17:00 -
[9]
welcome to the software industry.
thats a pretty rare combo - disconnect DURING the acceptance. probably wasn't on their test cases.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.09 18:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Khatred
Originally by: Tiuwaz so which hac prices is going to drive that accident even higher?
oh and plz send me a billion iskies, i am poor
That would be the Vagabonds, next month.
Even higher Vagabond prices
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
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Vanlade
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Posted - 2006.06.09 19:21:00 -
[11]
If it happened as you describe then this is a very rare and particular scenario that is very unlikely to happen. Blaming the QA departement for every rare bug that makes it to Tranquility is not very constructive, useless and depriming to forum readers.
Bad luck to you, but get over it.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.10 07:09:00 -
[12]
I hope you sent in a detailed bug report.
Won't matter too much in the long run what their logs may or may not show if they're able to keep reproducing the bug in your scenario until it's fixed.
I love people who ***** about QA though, but I'm sure they've done it, even if only on a text MUD level, otherwise they wouldn't be so*****y as to ***** about it. They realize that havin even 20 people searching for bugs won't find them all and that the 100000+ ppeople who will play WILL, right?
Right?
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Hunters Presence
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Posted - 2006.06.10 07:22:00 -
[13]
Quote: thats a pretty rare combo - disconnect DURING the acceptance. probably wasn't on their test cases.
Packet programmers are expected to allow the software to graciously handle these, as such situations (whilst rare) are notorious because of their impact and should be considered when designing the testing structure (oh dear Gods I sound like one of my textbooks ).
However to have the only complaint about the stability of the manufacturing aspect be about this variety of bug suggests it's actually very stable compared to say, SOE, who inevitably have a host of bugs in such a wide-ranging area.
In other words... it could be alot worse. -----
Games Programmer | Me! |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.06.10 07:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I hope you sent in a detailed bug report.
Won't matter too much in the long run what their logs may or may not show if they're able to keep reproducing the bug in your scenario until it's fixed.
I love people who ***** about QA though, but I'm sure they've done it, even if only on a text MUD level, otherwise they wouldn't be so*****y as to ***** about it. They realize that havin even 20 people searching for bugs won't find them all and that the 100000+ ppeople who will play WILL, right?
Right?
What does the normal QA teams in software business do? They try to break stuff. They test standard and extreme situations. They do this systematically. They make sure that stuff like this cannot happen - together with the designer making sure the data has no chance to reach instable situations. Quote: Data loss is not an option. (Insurance & banking software design) Quote: Endangering the operators and the machine itself through unknown tool position is not an options (Programming and design of control systems) Quote: It doesn't crash the server immediately. Roll it out to the life servers. (MMO programming) --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.06.10 07:45:00 -
[15]
hence the petition system is in place - id put a bug report in tho just to let em know
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Khatred
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Posted - 2006.06.10 08:16:00 -
[16]
The primary cocern is that setting a full month run of the bigger T2 ships (hacs, t2 bc's) can take litteraly minutes , and in those minutes, lots of things can happen. 100 runs of Brutix ships take 1-2 seconds to be processed and accepted. 23 runs of Eos ships can take 1-3 minutes. _______________________________________________
Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
sinderela
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Posted - 2006.06.10 08:17:00 -
[17]
Edited by: sinderela on 10/06/2006 08:19:26 err known bug, stop, crying petition, and get a fill mill from a friend/corp, until the reimburstment comes.
edit, unless of course you dont have friends, then I do a 12% flat interest rate, on any kinda loan ya need.
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arbitrary
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Posted - 2006.06.10 08:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tachy
What does the normal QA teams in software business do?
microsoft?
Quote:
They try to break stuff. They test standard and extreme situations. They do this systematically. They make sure that stuff like this cannot happen - together with the designer making sure the data has no chance to reach instable situations. Quote: Data loss is not an option. (Insurance & banking software design) Quote: Endangering the operators and the machine itself through unknown tool position is not an options (Programming and design of control systems) Quote: It doesn't crash the server immediately. Roll it out to the life servers. (MMO programming)
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence!" Dijkstra
while you have developers with really robust, almost bug free systems - say openBSD, systems that live by correctness - they still have bugs, just that they have worked out the most important from the system & prefer the saferoute over the new & fresh.
so banks usually pick the safest system in their book - they prefer red hat over fedora.
Most of my friends, alas the people I actually know prefer Fedora over Red Hat, or XP over NT etc - alas systems prone to bugs due to lack of testing - or rather due to being tested.
now EVE is fairly complex, we have a fairly low userbase that pays relativly little cash compared to banksystems or serversystems & we demand happier features then cash withdrawal. Sure they need to work on their bugs & I for one would prefer to see less new features for the price of better working old features then we have now (the QA team needs get bigger on that I agree ^^ )
but comparing banking to gaming is intresting for sure.
_ all I want is for you to smile. |
Shirei
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Posted - 2006.06.10 08:57:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Shirei on 10/06/2006 08:57:31 That is one of the more tame bugs.
A much more amusing one would be: If you have a running job (where the BPO is located in a corp hangar) and the office is un/re-rented in the meantime, the BPOs vanish into thin air when delivering the job. Took us like 1-2 months to petition a few BPOs back from that.
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Domain Diva
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Posted - 2006.06.10 09:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vanlade If it happened as you describe then this is a very rare and particular scenario that is very unlikely to happen. Blaming the QA departement for every rare bug that makes it to Tranquility is not very constructive, useless and depriming to forum readers.
Bad luck to you, but get over it.
Renaming a corp hanger that a BP is set to return to after manufacture is complete sometimes makes them dissapear too, as does cancelling or missing the rent on an office the BPO manufacture process is currently taking place in.
A bit more Q & A on the manufacturing front would have been nice tbfh - especially when people have invested billions into capital ship bpo's ot T2's just to have some annoying bug halt everything while a petition is pending
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arbitrary
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Posted - 2006.06.10 09:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Shirei Edited by: Shirei on 10/06/2006 08:57:31 If you have a running job (where the BPO is located in a corp hangar) and the office is un/re-rented in the meantime, the BPOs vanish into thin air when delivering the job. Took us like 1-2 months to petition a few BPOs back from that.
CCP is really stretching it though & the features of the few really seem too shaky - reminds me a bit about maya - & I even love and hate both
_ all I want is for you to smile. |
Davmi Costo
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Posted - 2006.06.10 11:25:00 -
[22]
You can be safe or you can be quick and flexible - you can't be both.
On the balance of things I'm glad banks are safe and I don'treally mind if MMO's go for the quick and flexible path (at least I see a new feature this side of 50).
Take chip and pin for an example - do you know how many billions of pounds were spent in just compliance testing for retailers, how much the banks themselves must have spent terrifies me - and it took them the best part of ten years (afaik).
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.06.10 17:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: arbitrary
Originally by: Tachy
What does the normal QA teams in software business do?
microsoft?
Quote:
They try to break stuff. They test standard and extreme situations. They do this systematically. They make sure that stuff like this cannot happen - together with the designer making sure the data has no chance to reach instable situations. Quote: Data loss is not an option. (Insurance & banking software design) Quote: Endangering the operators and the machine itself through unknown tool position is not an options (Programming and design of control systems) Quote: It doesn't crash the server immediately. Roll it out to the life servers. (MMO programming)
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence!" Dijkstra
while you have developers with really robust, almost bug free systems - say openBSD, systems that live by correctness - they still have bugs, just that they have worked out the most important from the system & prefer the saferoute over the new & fresh.
so banks usually pick the safest system in their book - they prefer red hat over fedora.
Most of my friends, alas the people I actually know prefer Fedora over Red Hat, or XP over NT etc - alas systems prone to bugs due to lack of testing - or rather due to being tested.
now EVE is fairly complex, we have a fairly low userbase that pays relativly little cash compared to banksystems or serversystems & we demand happier features then cash withdrawal. Sure they need to work on their bugs & I for one would prefer to see less new features for the price of better working old features then we have now (the QA team needs get bigger on that I agree ^^ )
but comparing banking to gaming is intresting for sure.
I know a couple of banks that changed from OS/2 to XP over the last two years. I did some testing and reporting. (Hey, I'd not trust any MS product when it comes to financial transactions, but a couple of meetings with upper echelon MS sales representatives out of office seem to be pretty convincing.)
These bugs aren't esoteric stuff. They happen in standard situations. Connection loss in the middle of a transaction is a standard situation. It would not be bad if such things didn't happen with each and every feature. The devs don't care for bugreports you send them for issues on the test server unless it allows for a gamebreaking exploit or crashes the server. And when I look at the carrier overloading, I kinda doubt they even care for exploits. And yes, it makes me angry when I see such things happen over and over again. --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Himani Yeshua
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Posted - 2006.06.10 18:09:00 -
[24]
To get the point across that you're trying to make, the quotes should be on the word "great."
Friendly Grammar **** here.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2006.06.10 18:11:00 -
[25]
Originally by: sinderela
err known bug, stop, crying petition, and get a fill mill from a friend/corp, until the reimburstment comes.
You have no idea who the OP is do you
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sinderela
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Posted - 2006.06.10 19:03:00 -
[26]
You have no idea who the OP is do you
I dont even remember typing that, hah, maybe too man beers.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.06.11 01:41:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 11/06/2006 01:43:05 Sadly, QA and customer support in the software industry (and in many other places, including parts of the governments) think that stupidity and incompetence are excuses for failure. What happened to "my fault, sorry. it will be fixed."? The new patch introduced roughly as many bugs as it fixed. Chat system still broken, now journal is messed up as well. Then there are people who think its my responsibility to write detailed bug reports. Sure. Send me your paycheck, and i do your work.
Some people in this thread sound exactly like the modern customer service (not just a problem in eve) Lazy, incompetent, apologetic. Fire the QA if they dont improve, and invest the money in beer. Same result, more fun.
Eve is like drug. poor quality, highly addictive. Or, if you are an optimist: a rough, uncut diamond.
by the way, ask chrisb why he quit capital ship production ;)
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.06.11 02:06:00 -
[28]
Bug report it?
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.11 02:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Chat system still broken, now journal is messed up as well.
For that, something I was told that fixes it (and does indeed fix it).
Open journal, click offers, close journal, open journal, and clikc mossion tab for non-crunched goodness.
Annoying but a 'fix' until the bug is sprayed.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.06.11 08:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Chat system still broken, now journal is messed up as well.
For that, something I was told that fixes it (and does indeed fix it).
Open journal, click offers, close journal, open journal, and clikc mossion tab for non-crunched goodness.
Annoying but a 'fix' until the bug is sprayed.
It is a temporary workaround that has to be redone after each session change (docking/jumping/relogging). Whoever designed, programmed, tested and tagged it 'Ready for Tranquillity' should do some trainee programm in housekeeping or something like that. --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
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