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Christus Estnatus Hemanseh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.06.05 20:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Read and behold:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf
Be warned: it's not for the faint of heart, specially if you love EVE or trust CCP. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
68
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Posted - 2014.06.05 20:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Already been linked at CCP Falcon's devthread on the layoffs. Quite appaling, but nothing shocking when compared to CCP's Glassdoor reviews -this company really has got serious management issues.
On the other hand, the story about the manager who told a developer how a feature should be "more psssshhhh" is too epic to be ignored... |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
14013
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
*cough*
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Ian Morbius
44
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:On the other hand, the story about the manager who told a developer how a feature should be "more psssshhhh" is too epic to be ignored... Best to ban marketing from the development department. Seen Company officers kick marketing out of the department. Still had to put up with them in the break room.
www.acronymfinder.com - For when companies allow engineers to create surveys for their customers.
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Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
228
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm glad that goofy World of Darkness crap is gone. I don't understand why they wanted to branch out and start making different games. I don't ever want God to hear our screams... and mistake them for prayers... |
Ian Morbius
44
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Posted - 2014.06.05 21:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: That's today. For minute there though it was an old thread.
www.acronymfinder.com - For when companies allow engineers to create surveys for their customers.
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digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
347
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Posted - 2014.06.05 22:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Next up in danger seems Dust 514, and we'll see how Valkyrie turns out, as Elite dangerous and star citizen are serious competition. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2014.06.05 22:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:Next up in danger seems Dust 514, and we'll see how Valkyrie turns out, as Elite dangerous and star citizen are serious competition.
And mind you, neither Oculus nor Morpheus are exactly in a rush to deliver the product... certainly will not be ready for Xmas 2014, maybe Xmas 2015...? |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
7351
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Posted - 2014.06.06 00:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seems more of a disgruntled employee perspective. Not saying rah-rah CCP, clearly they made mistakes, but this I think spins it into the negative missing aspects of the story.
Like it wasn't mentioned that a lot of players were frustrated with FiS development, and especially repair of the broken parts of FiS were about abandoned for a time/years while all the WiS development went on. But he was a WoD developer, right? So the WoD version of WiS meant everything, thus for him the riots were mostly/purely about $1000 jeans and nothing mentioned about the broken FiS game that people were frustrated with, a boiling point. WiS was horribly buggy after all that work and with the ignoring of FiS, all being a part of the big picture as to why CCP didn't go back to reiterate WiS, most players just did not want it. Certainly didn't want it just for a platform to sell barbie doll accessories at premium prices.
But it's more than just not having enough time to sort out WoD, imo. The big factor is just that it should have never been an in-house game engine project. That's basically two projects, as some companies such as Epic have armies of developers and years of development working on UnrealED which is widely licensed and used in many games. Reinventing the wheel can be very time consuming, and over-reaching as it clearly resulted in.
Dust was a flop? They used outside investors, investors made money. Wasn't the article before that about CCP going beyond what was reasonable, trying to be above the industry or whatever? Pushing too hard to be different such and such? I mean dust has uniqueness with it's EVE universe interaction, but they didn't go the whole reinventing the wheel rout. So which is it, pushing too hard to outdo the rest of the industry, or just making a game that works? I go with just making a game that works, myself. Too many developers and their marketeers look at player activity counts compared to other games and make their judgements from that, yet while that game itself is a success at least as far as operating and paying back investors and making them money. But a "flop" it was not, no matter my opinion of the actual game-play itself, unless he actually does believe in surpassing the industry standards.
Oh what else... the business climate in the US just flat out sucks. It's not just the gaming industry, but most everything related to business. Beyond that though, more specifically to the game industry, it's no surprise that there are hard times. I've said it for years that the f2p model is pure fail. True quality games are mostly behind us, it died with the abandoning of the subscription model and sticking micro-transactions into the non-mmo games. It's all abut marketing now, and yes most marketeers should be escorted off of the property, let them psychoanalyze the the pavement on the street. |
Angelique Duchemin
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
801
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Posted - 2014.06.06 22:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:"I once saw him looking over the shoulder of a programmer at some bit of User Interface the poor guy had hacked together. He straightened up, put fingers to lips and said, GÇÿNo, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhhGÇÖ He hissed on his ******* fingertips, like the air coming out of a bicycle tire, and then just walked away.GÇ¥
I wonder if the "psssshhh guy" still works at CCP. The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity. |
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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
2931
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Posted - 2014.06.06 22:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote:I'm glad that goofy World of Darkness crap is gone. I don't understand why they wanted to branch out and start making different games.
I wonder why Blizzard wanted to branch {s}off{/s} and make different games |
Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
228
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Posted - 2014.06.07 19:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:Dorian Tormak wrote:I'm glad that goofy World of Darkness crap is gone. I don't understand why they wanted to branch out and start making different games. I wonder why Blizzard wanted to branch off and make different games It was probably a dumb reason like "moar moneyz" when they should be focused on creating art. Hopefully CCP learned their lesson from this epic fail. Dust, Valkyrie, WoD, enough. I don't ever want God to hear our screams... and mistake them for prayers... |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
2938
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Posted - 2014.06.09 20:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:Dorian Tormak wrote:I'm glad that goofy World of Darkness crap is gone. I don't understand why they wanted to branch out and start making different games. I wonder why Blizzard wanted to branch off and make different games It was probably a dumb reason like " moar moneyz" when they should be focused on creating art. Hopefully CCP learned their lesson from this epic fail. Dust, Valkyrie, WoD, enough.
I will not speak in absolutes, but your statement shows you are not really CEO material. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1851
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Posted - 2014.06.09 20:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:Dorian Tormak wrote:I'm glad that goofy World of Darkness crap is gone. I don't understand why they wanted to branch out and start making different games. I wonder why Blizzard wanted to branch off and make different games It was probably a dumb reason like "moar moneyz" when they should be focused on creating art. Hopefully CCP learned their lesson from this epic fail. Dust, Valkyrie, WoD, enough Deeerp. When you have a solid, profitable business, you diversify. Very basic business here. "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT."
Unsuccessful At Everything |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
2938
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Posted - 2014.06.09 20:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dorian Tormak wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:Dorian Tormak wrote:I'm glad that goofy World of Darkness crap is gone. I don't understand why they wanted to branch out and start making different games. I wonder why Blizzard wanted to branch off and make different games It was probably a dumb reason like "moar moneyz" when they should be focused on creating art. Hopefully CCP learned their lesson from this epic fail. Dust, Valkyrie, WoD, enough Deeerp. When you have a solid, profitable business, you diversify. Very basic business here.
And sometimes you fail, which is very basic business as well
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Astenion
The Scope Gallente Federation
387
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Posted - 2014.06.09 21:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:Dorian Tormak wrote:I'm glad that goofy World of Darkness crap is gone. I don't understand why they wanted to branch out and start making different games. I wonder why Blizzard wanted to branch off and make different games It was probably a dumb reason like " moar moneyz" when they should be focused on creating art. Hopefully CCP learned their lesson from this epic fail. Dust, Valkyrie, WoD, enough.
This is a perfect example of creative types failing at business and business types failing at creativity. |
Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
230
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Posted - 2014.06.10 00:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dorian Tormak wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:Dorian Tormak wrote:I'm glad that goofy World of Darkness crap is gone. I don't understand why they wanted to branch out and start making different games. I wonder why Blizzard wanted to branch off and make different games It was probably a dumb reason like "moar moneyz" when they should be focused on creating art. Hopefully CCP learned their lesson from this epic fail. Dust, Valkyrie, WoD, enough Deeerp. When you have a solid, profitable business, you diversify. Very basic business here. When did I sign up for business class? I was talking about that crappy game they failed to make. I am FAKE. And I lack charisma. Can you feel my complete and utter superiority? |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
7765
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Posted - 2014.06.10 01:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: When you have a solid, profitable business, you diversify. Very basic business here.
Well it was a bad business plan nonetheless. Was going to be f2p, right? Just going to be another fail cash game anyway, destined to shut down after enough kids are milked, closing the game before they start losing money. Development was about the Psssshhhh because so few actually succeed with a cash game, well at epic proportions, so it's about chasing the carrot (development wise) which doesn't always mix well if at all with making a solid fun game built to last.
So such publishers try hard to make something "different" to get noticed, launch day is important for such games to keep momentum for a while. Such as like different as in the carbon character system, to say "we are different" and get the general f2p players to try the game. Then you have momentum going, display user numbers through marketing ads to draw even more f2p players over it's "popularity". The more f2p players you draw in, even if temporarily and with high turn-over, the better the chances you will get those few that will spend big money because they just cant control themselves, usually targeting the 18-25yo range. |
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope Gallente Federation
1519
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Posted - 2014.06.10 07:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Blizzard is actually making tons of money with their insane marketing decisions that turn people away. Want to know why? It's because investors are r+¬tarded. They adamantly refuse to invest money in something hat hasn't been done before, instead only putting money in on projects that look like they would have gotten brief attention ten years ago but are obviously going to flop today because 85% of the playerbase already has seen it and knows its garbage and the other 15% are under the age of 12.
Then you know what happens? That 15% buy this stuff up like no tomorrow, and the profit is made. Company dumps the game and starts a new project to grab the same audience in a way that has been done so many times before. And they're only antagonizing adults here. Adults aren't the main source of income unless they could figure out a way to keep them loyal for a long time.......psh, like THAT could ever happen. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk |
Doreen Kaundur
478
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Posted - 2014.06.10 08:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
I blame Incarna. Things started going downhill then.
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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
2950
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Posted - 2014.06.10 12:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote: When did I sign up for business class? I was talking about that crappy game they failed to make.
If you are going to criticize a company of bad business decisions it is a good idea to have a basic understanding of how business works. You clearly have zero grasp at that and therefore you should just stick to, 'I don't like what they did' comments.
Saying wanting to make more money is a bad idea for a company to want to try to do is pure ignorance of basic business practices and economics. Imagine where DuPont would be if they said, hey hemp is a very strong fiber, there is no need to work on synthetic materials. Trust me, DuPont lost a few times in the R&D department. But guess what, their successes far outweigh those losses. Yes, CCP has failed miserably in their diversification attempts, but that should not eliminate the urge to continue to diversify in the future. They just need to think it out properly and definitely need to work on their implementation |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1938
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Posted - 2014.06.10 12:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Doreen Kaundur wrote:I blame Incarna. Things started going downhill then.
It was before Incarna when they did start WOD development and it was before Incarna when they made the featureless features. Incarna was too much for people. So they protested. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif |
Jeremiah Dragonkiller
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.10 19:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote: They just need to think it out properly and definitely need to work on their implementation nope, they just need more psssshhhh. |
Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
231
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Posted - 2014.06.11 13:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:Dorian Tormak wrote: When did I sign up for business class? I was talking about that crappy game they failed to make.
If you are going to criticize a company of bad business decisions it is a good idea to have a basic understanding of how business works. You clearly have zero grasp at that and therefore you should just stick to, 'I don't like what they did' comments. Saying wanting to make more money is a bad idea for a company to want to try to do is pure ignorance of basic business practices and economics. Imagine where DuPont would be if they said, hey hemp is a very strong fiber, there is no need to work on synthetic materials. Trust me, DuPont lost a few times in the R&D department. But guess what, their successes far outweigh those losses. Yes, CCP has failed miserably in their diversification attempts, but that should not eliminate the urge to continue to diversify in the future. They just need to think it out properly and definitely need to work on their implementation I get it. They want to put out more games and make more money. You don't have to use all these fancy words or try to convince me you are some businessman.
If CCP would stick mainly to Eve they would definitely make more money off of it, and maybe that's what they are doing now. Make another game if you want, just don't attempt to make 3 horrible games and then cancel the biggest one.
Either way I don't care about "business decisions" . I care about playing the best games, and if I am making video games? Well then I care about making the best games. I am FAKE. And I lack charisma. Can you feel my complete and utter superiority? |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters Disturbed Acquaintance
8884
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Posted - 2014.06.11 13:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
oh, i don't know...the trailer for WoD looked pretty friggen epic. hahaha....wait. so do all the eve ones. and eve is nothing like the trailers. hmmm |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
2956
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 16:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dorian Tormak wrote: I get it. They want to put out more games and make more money. You don't have to use all these fancy words or try to convince me you are some businessman.
If CCP would stick mainly to Eve they would definitely make more money off of it, and maybe that's what they are doing now. Make another game if you want, just don't attempt to make 3 horrible games and then cancel the biggest one.
Either way I don't care about "business decisions" . I care about playing the best games, and if I am making video games? Well then I care about making the best games.
There are zero fancy words in my post and I am no businessman. But nice backpedal there.
EvE is already the best video game out there and has been for as long as I can remember. NO reason not to try to diversify at that point, but CCP failed miserably unfortunately.
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope Gallente Federation
1521
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Posted - 2014.06.11 20:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:There are zero fancy words in my post and I am no businessman. But nice backpedal there.
EvE is already the best video game out there and has been for as long as I can remember. NO reason not to try to diversify at that point, but CCP failed miserably unfortunately.
You guys are arguing too much. I think you're on the same side, but see things from a different perspective.
Slade: You have a good grasp of how the businesses work on the inside. Your posts help to inform us of what is actually going on, because what seems to be going on is completely different from the truth. You also have an intuition that would be valuable to them. That intuition will be much more valuable to the business world (and in turn, to the end user) if you can learn to see from the perspective of the end user. And here's why:
Dorian: Your points focus on what you wish to see out of your gaming company. You don't have to understand all this high-tech jargon to know how to identify a good game from crap, and you want people to recognize this talent of yours. I'm guessing you knew DUST and WoD were crap from the beginning, same with a lot of those flops. Now while not so many folks could see that these games were lousy from the beginning, it became clear to them after they played them for a bit.
There is a very big problem in the gaming industry and it centers around an incompatibility between games that are actually good and games that actually get investment funding. The big companies are learning that it is next to impossible to draw in enough resources to begin a project that's going to end up lasting very long, so they cash in quick, get attention, sell, and run off to the next flashy hit. They are losing ground quickly to indie game developers who lack such limitations and instead rely on word of mouth or letting people play in development stages to sell their title. These people usually start small and do a lot of work with a very small team before their work gets noticed.
I think the solution to this rift is to convince the investors that good games can bring in money. Now this is a major uphill climb--you have to realize that this whole travesty is a problem for everyone except the investors--the investors love determining the success of their investment quickly. They love cashing in quick on a game as it flops, then moving on to the next one. And they get rich this way. They know this works. You'll only convince them this way doesn't work if that becomes the truth. And that involves getting people from all walks of life to talk to each other and learn to understand what the other sees and what you yourself are missing, and learn what you have to offer so you can show that to people.
Dorian: You have a keen sense of what makes a game fun to play.
Slade: You have a keen sense of what makes a game sell.
If you want to make the selling game fun to play, you've got to come together on this. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk |
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope Gallente Federation
1521
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Posted - 2014.06.11 20:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:oh, i don't know...the trailer for WoD looked pretty friggen epic. hahaha....wait. so do all the eve ones. and eve is nothing like the trailers. hmmm I don't know about that. One thing that keeps me in EVE is the realization that the Butterfly Effect and Causality trailers never lied to me.
They may have polished it a lot, but I already knew that like I knew they use glue instead of milk on cereal boxes, or that even the most perfect-looking magazine models still get photoshopped on a regular basis.
No, I don't want a hamburger that looks like the ones in the ads. It would probably not taste right and I would get sick from eating it.
But in EVE, I can have what's advertised, and it tastes good! I'm addicted, I can't leave! Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1457
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Posted - 2014.06.12 22:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Wod, incarna, sov, bad pos code. All due to bad management decisions at ccp. The blame belongs to the guy at the top. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
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