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Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.11 03:56:00 - [1] Change them to give a bonus to shield HP, not boost amount. This would bring their prices slightly down, but more people would end up using them. They would be good, helpful, and leet, but be more in line with slave set. Please, please do this.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.11 04:03:00 - [2] You do realize shield have passive regen, and this would quite possibly toggle godmode for certain ships right? I've heard of some crazy command shp tanks, I can't imagine them with 50% more shields or so.
Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.11 04:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Double TaP on 11/06/2006 04:08:19 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia You do realize shield have passive regen, and this would quite possibly toggle godmode for certain ships right? I've heard of some crazy command shp tanks, I can't imagine them with 50% more shields or so. I fly the Caldari Command ships. Yes it would increase the tank on them, but as it stands right now a command ship that is setup to do something other than pure tank is not that great. Thing about them is they (at least my nighthawk) really does crap damage. A solo BS would probably take me out, at least with a friend I know he would. Ravens have quite a bit of shield being tier 2 bs, and the extra shield because of the regen would help active tankers as well as passive tankers. But it doesnt have to be as big a bonus as the armor tanking if CCP feels like it would be unbalanced. Edit: with the price of these implants why dont you think you deserve a little bit of uberness. you get podded and good god youre screwed.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.06.11 05:00:00 - [4] You are aware I could have a Cerberus with nearly 15,000 shields with the right setup using two large shield extender IIs and two power diagnostic IIs and I'd have some crazy passive recharge to boot? Crystal set is fine as it is.. I don't see why people want to nerf it, it's powerful but so is slave and snake sets, hell the other implants aren't bad either, theyre all good.. depends on how you use them. ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.11 05:13:00 - [5] Originally by: Jim Raynor You are aware I could have a Cerberus with nearly 15,000 shields with the right setup using two large shield extender IIs and two power diagnostic IIs and I'd have some crazy passive recharge to boot? Crystal set is fine as it is.. I don't see why people want to nerf it, it's powerful but so is slave and snake sets, hell the other implants aren't bad either, theyre all good.. depends on how you use them. And Alls it would take is a well fitted mega with Void Ammo and maybe a weaker friend and that tank on your Cerb is done for. Yet since that situation is unlikely, the bonus would be nuts. But tell me would you really use that in pvp? The extenders would make bs hit you much much easier, especially if you turned on an mwd. So you still end up ganked. This would be a good change imo.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.06.11 05:22:00 - [6] Quote: Alls it would take is a well fitted mega with Void Ammo and maybe a weaker friend and that tank on your Cerb is done for. Yet since that situation is unlikely, the bonus would be nuts. But tell me would you really use that in pvp? The extenders would make bs hit you much much easier, especially if you turned on an mwd. So you still end up ganked. This would be a good change imo. You honestly think a Cerberus tanks well? Extenders are the way to go.. 850 base capacitor and a large shield booster II does not make for a very good tank, get hit by 1 heavy nos and it's over.. very quickly.. even with injector and 800s it's hard to maintain, Cerberus has a ****-poor capacitor. Dual Extenders raises your signature radius to 185m.. that is tolerable, a Deimos is like 160m isn't it? MWD, on a Cerberus? Maybe, but I prefer afterburner.. A Cerberus vs Megathron as it stands is a bad matchup considering the Megathron has nos usually, plenty of drones for ECM.. and the Cerberus can not break a dual rep armor tank that has decent resists.. people are really over-estimating how much DPS a Cerberus can do.. it's about 325 with scourge heavy missiles.. it takes a lot of faction ballistics and maximum missile skills to break 400 DPS on a Cerberus. ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
Cruz	Posted - 2006.06.11 05:37:00 - [7] Edited by: Cruz on 11/06/2006 05:39:12 325 is quite a bit. What can a zealot do, 484dps with 7 HS II and 4x Heavy Pulse II w/conflag and have a range of 10km with **** tracking? While the Cerberus does that dps from 0-90km(is that right?) Yah I feel sorry for your cerberus. Crystal set is overpowered imo, making it into a shield hp boost would be good. PS your flying a 220mil isk ship, you can afford cap effecient gist boosters. .................
Meridius	Posted - 2006.06.11 05:49:00 - [8] Originally by: Jim Raynor it's about 325 with scourge heavy missiles.. it takes a lot of faction ballistics and maximum missile skills to break 400 DPS on a Cerberus. 325? More like 395 without any implants. Look here. Makes our fancy scorch crystals obsolete. - _____
Yual	Posted - 2006.06.11 05:52:00 - [9] There is a simple way to fix the comments in this thread. Make large shield extenders take a Battleship sized amt of fitting. Its really annoying coming up on a frigate with cruiser level hp, or a cruiser with BS level hp and they get a huge boost to "free" regen. Originally by: W.W. Smith "Consistancy is a hallmark of a small mind."
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.06.11 05:52:00 - [10] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Jim Raynor it's about 325 with scourge heavy missiles.. it takes a lot of faction ballistics and maximum missile skills to break 400 DPS on a Cerberus. 325? More like 395 without any implants. Look here. Makes our fancy scorch crystals obsolete. that is using fury.. yanno, the cap raping missiles. ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.06.11 05:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Yual There is a simple way to fix the comments in this thread. Make large shield extenders take a Battleship sized amt of fitting. Its really annoying coming up on a frigate with cruiser level hp, or a cruiser with BS level hp and they get a huge boost to "free" regen. oh yes, let's nerf shield extenders now the large shield extender gives roughly the same as a 800mm armor plate.. the 1600mm plate gives quite a lot of armor and can be fit on cruisers too. ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
Cruz	Posted - 2006.06.11 06:41:00 - [12] Edited by: Cruz on 11/06/2006 06:41:56 Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Yual There is a simple way to fix the comments in this thread. Make large shield extenders take a Battleship sized amt of fitting. Its really annoying coming up on a frigate with cruiser level hp, or a cruiser with BS level hp and they get a huge boost to "free" regen. oh yes, let's nerf shield extenders now the large shield extender gives roughly the same as a 800mm armor plate.. the 1600mm plate gives quite a lot of armor and can be fit on cruisers too. Yah but 1600mm Gimps you into using frigate weapons on the cruiser. Except Large Extenders still allow you to use your main weapons, especially on Caldari Ships. Rational thinking is your friend here Jimmy boy. .................
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.06.11 06:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Cruz Edited by: Cruz on 11/06/2006 06:41:56 Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Yual There is a simple way to fix the comments in this thread. Make large shield extenders take a Battleship sized amt of fitting. Its really annoying coming up on a frigate with cruiser level hp, or a cruiser with BS level hp and they get a huge boost to "free" regen. oh yes, let's nerf shield extenders now the large shield extender gives roughly the same as a 800mm armor plate.. the 1600mm plate gives quite a lot of armor and can be fit on cruisers too. Yah but 1600mm Gimps you into using frigate weapons on the cruiser. Except Large Extenders still allow you to use your main weapons, especially on Caldari Ships. Rational thinking is your friend here Jimmy boy. 800mm gives nearly as much HP as a large shield extender.. shield extenders are fine.. jesus christ let's nerf everything.. ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.11 07:16:00 - [14] 800mm t2 plate: 1680 hp, 230pg, 28cpu L t2 extender: 2100hp, 132pg, 46cpu Don't bring something about 800mm rolled tungsten, there aren't any. But there is slight difference... shield does recharge, while armor doesn't. But since 25% is nearly same, well it must be irrelevant. And cerberus vs thron... if thron has 0.05 clue, cerberus ends dead. And that is the fate of any hac, apart from very lucky jamming ishtar maybe. Thing is that some ships have insane passive shield tanks, for instance pottsey's eos. He managed to get better shield tank than armor tank would be, even with reparer bonus. And that is... nosf immune tank(well doesn't need any rechargers for cap either) --------- Dead already?
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.06.11 07:24:00 - [15] Originally by: LUKEC 800mm t2 plate: 1680 hp, 230pg, 28cpu L t2 extender: 2100hp, 132pg, 46cpu Don't bring something about 800mm rolled tungsten, there aren't any. But there is slight difference... shield does recharge, while armor doesn't. But since 25% is nearly same, well it must be irrelevant. And cerberus vs thron... if thron has 0.05 clue, cerberus ends dead. And that is the fate of any hac, apart from very lucky jamming ishtar maybe. Thing is that some ships have insane passive shield tanks, for instance pottsey's eos. He managed to get better shield tank than armor tank would be, even with reparer bonus. And that is... nosf immune tank(well doesn't need any rechargers for cap either) yes like i said the different between a 800mm plate and a large shield extender isnt huge, seriously it isnt. yes i'm aware the rolled tungsten doesn't drop, and on the same token the regolith large shield extender gives 300 less hp than the t2 one, armor mods and shield mods don't mirror each other, we all know this. one could make the same argument that the energized adaptive nano membrane II completely pwns the invul field II, train the compensation skills up a bit and it's nearly as much resist for no cap use, and yes invuls might not use as much cap as they used to but good luck running one of those suckers on a frig, even cruisers take a good hit on the cap running them yadda yadda, tired of the "lets make everything the same" crap.. shields!=armor missiles!=turrets!=drones, can't we find something new to whine about? ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
Copine Callmeknau	Posted - 2006.06.11 07:49:00 - [16] Originally by: Cruz Edited by: Cruz on 11/06/2006 06:41:56 Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Yual There is a simple way to fix the comments in this thread. Make large shield extenders take a Battleship sized amt of fitting. Its really annoying coming up on a frigate with cruiser level hp, or a cruiser with BS level hp and they get a huge boost to "free" regen. oh yes, let's nerf shield extenders now the large shield extender gives roughly the same as a 800mm armor plate.. the 1600mm plate gives quite a lot of armor and can be fit on cruisers too. Yah but 1600mm Gimps you into using frigate weapons on the cruiser. Except Large Extenders still allow you to use your main weapons, especially on Caldari Ships. Rational thinking is your friend here Jimmy boy. orly? I use 1600mm plate and cruiser guns on my rupture. ------- With five million sheep in this army I seem to be the only one fit to command
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.06.11 07:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Copine Callmeknau Originally by: Cruz Edited by: Cruz on 11/06/2006 06:41:56 Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Yual There is a simple way to fix the comments in this thread. Make large shield extenders take a Battleship sized amt of fitting. Its really annoying coming up on a frigate with cruiser level hp, or a cruiser with BS level hp and they get a huge boost to "free" regen. oh yes, let's nerf shield extenders now the large shield extender gives roughly the same as a 800mm armor plate.. the 1600mm plate gives quite a lot of armor and can be fit on cruisers too. Yah but 1600mm Gimps you into using frigate weapons on the cruiser. Except Large Extenders still allow you to use your main weapons, especially on Caldari Ships. Rational thinking is your friend here Jimmy boy. orly? I use 1600mm plate and cruiser guns on my rupture. yes the nice thing about the rupture is it's grid is high enough for artillery but it does just fine with a 1600mm plate and medium autocannons :) ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
Wesley Harding	Posted - 2006.06.11 08:03:00 - [18] I think Pottsey would have a field day if Crystals gave a Hp boost...
Ling Toriyama	Posted - 2006.06.11 08:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Wesley Harding I think Pottsey would have a field day if Crystals gave a Hp boost... YaY, me2 I want my Vulture to have 30k shield hp (if not 31)
Beringe	Posted - 2006.06.11 09:14:00 - [20] All those pirate implants are pretty powerful, on the verge of being unbalanced... ...but I wouldn't call it a critical issue. ------------------------------------------- "Never underestimate the power of language." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
inSpirAcy	Posted - 2006.06.11 10:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Beringe All those pirate implants are pretty powerful, on the verge of being unbalanced... ... with each other, which I think is the issue being discussed? Heaven forbid giving somebody with 2 bil+ of destructible implants an advantage over someone without.
Pottsey	Posted - 2006.06.11 10:38:00 - [22] ôI think Pottsey would have a field day if Crystals gave a Hp boost...ö You can say that again my Domi would have more shields then a Dreadnought and be able to withstand 2 Titan Doomsday weapons at onceàor close to two. Crystals boosting HP would be crazy overpowered. Passive shield tanking guide, click here.
The Wizz117	Posted - 2006.06.11 10:45:00 - [23] i think it would be overpowerd on cruisers with oversized extenders and under-powerd on battle ships ------------------------------------------- That ccp created a universe doesen't mean they'r gods
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:53:00 - [24] Originally by: The Wizz117 i think it would be overpowerd on cruisers with oversized extenders and under-powerd on battle ships Like slave? oh wait... --------- Dead already?
Ephemeron	Posted - 2006.06.11 12:06:00 - [25] If caldari people like their sheild boosting bonus, why not change it from "+ shield boost amount" to "- shield booster duration". Have them be like Talisman set, just making cycle time shorter. This would be a slight nerf to shield boosting, which is okay since dedicated shield tankers get crazy bonus from these implants. If Caldari people think shield boosting bonus is justified, then how would they feel if armor tankers also got repair boosting bonus from Slave implants? Probably very angry, but it would just make 2 sets equal in power, so if you think one is overpowered, other must also be overpowered.
Kunming	Posted - 2006.06.11 12:12:00 - [26] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: The Wizz117 i think it would be overpowerd on cruisers with oversized extenders and under-powerd on battle ships Like slave? oh wait... Armor doesnt recharge like shield does, the more shield the more HP/sec u recharge on the shields... the more armor doesnt boost tank just increases your survivability that bit longer.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.11 12:19:00 - [27] Oh god, imagine the passive tanking crystal-rattlesnake
Kery Nysell	Posted - 2006.06.11 15:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Cruz PS your flying a 220mil isk ship, you can afford cap effecient gist boosters. Medium, cruiser or HAC-sized Gist booster are not in the game. And Gist boosters are not that cap efficient, they use less cap than other boosters, but unless you're using a Small one on a Battleship, you won't be able to sustain a Gist shield tank like you can sustain a T2 armor-tank ... I've got all my cap skills maxed, Shield Compensation too, and I can't keep my Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster running on a frigate-class or destroyer-class ship, and even with some Cruisers I can still empty my capacitor with just the A-Type running ... Shield boosting is a really short-term form of tanking, because of it's cap usage, and shield boosting bonuses are needed ... the Crystal set may be a tad overpowered, but it would get worse with a shield HP bonus : anyone want to see a Ferox with it's nasty resists, tremendous shield recharge rate and 20K shield HPs ?
Jin Entres	Posted - 2006.06.11 15:51:00 - [29] And why could the bonus not include a similar penalty to shield recharge rate? ---
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Cruz Edited by: Cruz on 11/06/2006 06:41:56 Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Yual There is a simple way to fix the comments in this thread. Make large shield extenders take a Battleship sized amt of fitting. Its really annoying coming up on a frigate with cruiser level hp, or a cruiser with BS level hp and they get a huge boost to "free" regen. oh yes, let's nerf shield extenders now the large shield extender gives roughly the same as a 800mm armor plate.. the 1600mm plate gives quite a lot of armor and can be fit on cruisers too. Yah but 1600mm Gimps you into using frigate weapons on the cruiser. Except Large Extenders still allow you to use your main weapons, especially on Caldari Ships. Rational thinking is your friend here Jimmy boy. Exactly. 1600mm plates make you use frig weapons. 800mm doesn't. Now unless you want to boost extender hp and fittings, I suggest you hush. Rational thinking and all that.

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