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Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos
165
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Posted - 2014.06.14 05:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:Saying that there isn't anything in nul is especially odd, seeing as the nul blocks have been deployed in one form or another for the majority of the last year.
Sorry to disappoint but that level of constant activity isn't the usual. 6VDT and BR5R can't be going on every week even with limitless resources.
Botlord accords not withstanding it will shake up again when there has been a catalyst to disrupt things and the rest and will to get back to it on all sides. Until then expect boarder skirmishing and the occasional proxy war.
The Chinese server has people not being little school girl bitches and dropping titans almost every week. Our server is much older and as such should be much better funded. So why could that content not happen every week?
Besides, let's clear the air. Why on earth has nullsec become the place where you make the most ISK, but you as a player can't be bothered to fly a ship unless you know it's going to be 100% replaced? How pathetic have nullsec players become.
Read this in a civil war area southern woman's voice and you'll appreciate it more Woe is me and my double vindicator ratting anoms at 35mil bounty tick per character, however could I afford to fly a sentry Dominix and *gasp* buy another one if the first one got blown up . --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::------- |
Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos
165
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Posted - 2014.06.14 05:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:Unlikely for things to change and it will be like this for awhile. There is some excitement in various parts of other parts of null, low, or FW space but as a whole EVE has stagnated. I hate to say it but EVE is dead or slowly dying. CCP just laid off 46 employees, this year has experienced a big decline in membership (see CSM voter turnout article), most news sites like TMC barely write anything exciting about EVE since there is nothing exciting to cover. Even Jesters blog shut down since there is nothing to write about. #EveisKaput The plethora of threads involving "no reason to fight in 0.0" might be some indication, they are easy to spot if you filter 'locked' topics. Faction wars gets flamed, but 1 pilot can contest systems and this requires reaction. In 0.0 it requires fleets of hundreds or thousands to achieve even small changes. 90% TiDi Ensues and people wonder why no one in 0.0 is having a war? Because it's boring and tedious.Until small scale skirmishes and battles in 0.0 are capable of threatening sovereignty, people will spend there time care-bearing and hoping a 10 hour fleet battle at 1/10th speed can be avoided as long as possible. Meanwhile they join CODE. and other such Hi-Sec activities funded by this carebearing because they have nothing to fight for, no one to fight and no motivation to get into the 10000000th interceptor fleet that they've been in since the interdiction immunity was added and fly directly into another suicide fleet from another alliance. I'd rather gank freighters and taste tears, wouldn't you?
It wasn't that way after the sov changes happened, I FC'ed for Chaos Theory Alliance out in the Provi block fight club areas. That was exciting nullsec. PVP every day, roaming gangs 23/7, no real cloaky camping (except for CVA bc they're fucktards who wanted their space back). We all had a handful of systems for the alliance to use, and almost every alliance system was upgraded and used daily. That was how all of nullsec should be. There was none of this having 40+ systems that see more neutral traffic than traffic by the actual owning alliance and are never upgraded since they just aren't used, or today's rental world where half of nullsec is being used by carebears.
Alas, since all nullsec space was now good, some bigger entities came in and pushed all the smaller alliances out, and sure enough that space got boring again. Nothing needed thousands of people in the past and it still doesn't require thousands of people now. The problem is no one bothers showing up for the initial reinforcement or second timer because they don't mean anything because you can just game tidi by loading up the system 12 hours early with 2k people with drones deployed and make it nearly impossible for the other side to enter.
The point is, nullsec just sucks. It's the worst place to be in EvE. It almost made me stop logging on before I moved back to FW. Love me some daily content every day, every hour in FW! --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::------- |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1272
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Posted - 2014.06.14 17:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:As alluring as it is to go "**** diplomacy" and burn down everything for its own sake, the end result is that you lose everything to become content for other people.
See: TEST
The point of NullSec isn't to have enduring player Empires though.
NullSec is supposed to be a huge conflict driver. Conflict = a boon for the economy. This is-á a signature. |
princess minervia
Iron Sun Explorations
5
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Posted - 2014.06.15 02:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
thetwilitehour wrote:What makes you think we aren't setting up for the real war, against high sec?
You mean you haven't started already? All the alt-corps with 10, 20, 30 war decs running in hi-sec all at the same time aren't being funded by you?
I'm shocked. I figured this was your grand scheme to kill off hi-sec casual players and small corps once and for all.
Too bad it seems like it is taking the rest of Eve with it.....
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Wu Jiaqiu
Big Johnson's Red Coat Conspiracy
178
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Posted - 2014.06.15 04:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Here's a crazy idea... What if Titans / Supers need a certain amount of fuel or moon goo to even operate? And then, make the fuel scarce enough that even a large alliance could only viably use a smaller number of them at a time.
Anything to relieve the entrenched and bunkered up powerblocs and make room for the smaller guys out there. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
20
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Posted - 2014.06.15 06:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Amelia Carac wrote:I notice no one is going to war anymore, now that the power house big blocs are in, they all seem content to just leave eachother alone and not go to war, has nullsec finally hit the end to where u are a pet for a big bloc if u want anything to do with nullsec sov, or will these power blocs ever go to war with eachother like real invasion war.
There's plenty of fighting in null. A lot of it isn't very fun though. Hopefully something will change fighting from the single blob aiming to deliver an alpha that breaks the enemy tank/reps. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
296
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Posted - 2014.06.15 07:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:CCP is focusing on new player experience and forget older players, so kind of yes, EVE is dying but only for older players because CCP does not bring new content for them.
There are lots of reasons for this. To extrapolate this to real world politics asking goons to have a civil war is like trying to start a civil war in europe or the USA. It's a possibility but the only way to do it would be to pressure just one part at a time and make them feel detached from the main body. If you could imagine having an invasion on Alaska and no military support comes from mainland USA - after enough time of successful defense and still paying taxes wouldn't you too feel like maybe you didn't need their help? Convoluted example I know but probably not outside the realm of reality. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1525
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Posted - 2014.06.15 08:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:As alluring as it is to go "**** diplomacy" and burn down everything for its own sake, the end result is that you lose everything to become content for other people.
See: TEST this is a game after all. It is supposed to be fun.
For repeatative boring riskless stuff welcome to RL The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Mass Doe
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
11
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Posted - 2014.06.15 12:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Come to V3 and tell me there is no content. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1178
|
Posted - 2014.06.15 14:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cearain wrote:It has to do with the personalities that lead the large alliances.
In eve's null sec golden age you had BOB who would wage war just to wage war. Like Genghis Khan, it was just what they did in game.
After Goonswarm disbanded them and Mittani took over lets just say null sec became much more agrarian. It's what he and his alliance does. Even the burn jita campaign is ribboned with "isk efficiency." A war like maximum damage had not isk efficiency concerns. It was financially not bright but it was fun. Livened things up and helped eve make it to mainstream papers like the new york times.
Of course, the Goon way is how you stay in power. You keep amassing and farming resources and making friends (like goonswarm) as opposed to making enemies and going on risky and foolish wars (Like BOB). But it also makes for a boring game when every "war" is decided before it starts.
Goonswarm said they wanted to ruin the game for everyone else and they are doing a good job. Just not the way anyone thought they would.
Holy ****, this guy is a genius. And suddenly, it all makes sense!
Add this to my prior post and there you go. EVE's current state in a nutshell and it's reasons for being so. Dev's... did you like when EVE was in the new york times? We sure did. Maybe you should work on some content that would make the game great again before star citizens get's completed. Just saying....
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1408
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Posted - 2014.06.17 11:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:Null has always been boring blobfests with blues for like 20 jumps in every direction. Small gang PvP is what has always fueled Eve and is still alive in lowsec. Sure there are blobs there as well, but there are still many goodfights to be had.
Correction.. null was NOT that until the end of the bob wars. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
273
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Posted - 2014.06.19 15:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Sov null is not some scripted story line. It is an evolution in progress. It is the 'real' story of how empires like the NPC factions rose in the first place. NPC factions were spawned overnight and their entire evolution just a matter of some writer's imagination. We didn't get to see the NPC empires become empires.
Sov shows us the evolution of how empires are made. From smaller, fragmented groups often at war, to consolidated territories with defined (and defended) borders. Sov allows players to create an empire, rather than cling on to a story board generated one. It is the ultimate expression of sandbox- actually becoming one of the major empires in a game.
Certainly, any true assessment of New Eden would not limit the number of 'empires' to four. The CFC, HERO, Provibloc, and the latest version of N3- all should be included as 'empires' when talking about New Eden. Just as there is more than four human races in Eve (counting Sleepers, Jove, and the 'forgotten' races like Talocan), there are more than four empires in New Eden now.
The ability for player created empires to eclipse the NPC story line is the natural evolution of New Eden. Given the tools of empire-building, players did just that, as was intended. We were shown what an Eve empire looks like, what tools define it as a faction- then given those same tools. Instead of storyline diplomacy, we had real diplomacy. Instead of some fiction about civil wars and betrayal, we actually do it. Sov is just playing out the origin stories used for NPC empires.
So it's not a matter of 'hitting the end', but rather we're just at the point in sov empire evolution where it's almost on par with the NPC factions. Sov has just about achieved what the storyline says the four NPC empires accomplished. There is no 'end' in an evolutionary process. Only the next step.
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1310
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Posted - 2014.06.19 16:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
I think everyone gets that it's not scripted. But the players conducting the diplomacy have changed from those who played this spaceship game in a fun and exciting way (BOB) to those who play it in a serious agriculture business way. (Goons)
This is only a problem for those who
1)want the game to be fun and exciting
and
2) do not think the agriculture business is fun and exciting.
It seems pretty clear that some important people in null sec disagree with at least one of those views.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Lychenko Kumamato
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.06.19 18:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
I think the problem here is that a lot of pilots seem to view the world of EVE through the lens of their own game morality, that is, they want to believe people pay (or plex such that other pay) to find good fights, get the most out of spaceship combat that's close and heated, and generally want to perpetuate an environment where the game of risk is always one move from a serious upset. You get a similar worldview from the highsec miners and industry guys who believe that the game is about pvp only when you want it and otherwise should be care-free sim-city style building and creating.
What most pilots either purposefully ignore, or diminish as un-fun/bad for the game (subjective preference here), is that for a great many players, especially those with the skill and ability to lead player empires, aren't interested in a map that could be re-drawn tomorrow. The game they're playing is about expanding their ability to project their own contect desires. Whether that means controlling the most space, having the most resources, or simply being capable of bullying as many other entities as possible (or something I haven't even considered here, just as well); their design in the sandbox is equally valid given that there is no ruleset preventing them from seeking this above aformentioned traditional goals.
In the long run, what mechanical limitations are in the game produce some incentives to do one thing or another. Supercap proliferation is a large part of this, I think; however, to the extent that the game is still largely emergent, I don't think it's realistic to assume that Mittani or anyone else is angling to be the greatest bean-counter in New Eden. Even if the CFC emerges as an uncontensted space-renting organization (and I doubt that given the current climate), there will still be plenty of room for some politically connected players to "fuckgoons," and begin the process of chaotic power struggle again.
TL;DR: "Not playing the game right," is just like, someone's opinion, and a really bizarre concept in a sandbox mmo. If you want to change the landscape, you need to get out there are start working on it. Saying in lowsec and claiming null is rigged is a wastes of time, unless you have an ear with the devs. What's going to bring widespread chaos and fights back to more of null will be players who go out and live in null with the expressed goal of empowering themselves to do just that.
Yep, that probably means infiltration, lots of boot-licking in the short term, making not-so-cozy alliances with people you hate, selling your supposed moral compass for another shekel, but if your preferences are defined by your actions and not your words. If you want to impose your will and your preferences on others, you'd better get to emulating those bean-counters. It ain't cheap to be a space-lord. Influence has a price. |
Professor of Economics
Interstellar Kredit Redistribution Agency
0
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Posted - 2014.06.19 19:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I think everyone gets that it's not scripted. But the players conducting the diplomacy have changed from those who played this spaceship game in a fun and exciting way (BOB) to those who play it in a serious agriculture business way. (Goons)
This is only a problem for those who
1)want the game to be fun and exciting
and
2) do not think the agriculture business is fun and exciting.
It seems pretty clear that some important people in null sec disagree with at least one of those views.
Goonswarm - the home of agricultural business policy. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1310
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Posted - 2014.06.19 19:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lychenko Kumamato wrote:
TL;DR: "Not playing the game right," is just like, someone's opinion, and a really bizarre concept in a sandbox mmo. If you want to change the landscape, you need to get out there are start working on it....
Yep, that probably means infiltration, lots of boot-licking in the short term, making not-so-cozy alliances with people you hate, selling your supposed moral compass for another shekel, but your preferences are defined by your actions and not your words. If you want to impose your will and your preferences on others, you'd better get to emulating those bean-counters. It ain't cheap to be a space-lord. Influence has a price.
I am not saying they aren't playing the game "right."
That's why I made it clear the current null sec is a problem only if you don't like to play serious agriculture business.
As far as getting online and licking the boots of people who like serious agriculture business, that doesn't sound fun either. But for some it is, and the eve sandbox offers them null sec. It's fine with me, as long as ccp doesn't get the idea that low sec is supposed to be a stepping stone to that. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
786
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Posted - 2014.06.19 19:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Want null content almost every day.... CCP should make it so that the bridge and jump options swap locations random every few seconds, even if a mouse is hovering over it. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
271
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Posted - 2014.07.01 03:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:US NullSec is a dumb, boring, stupid mess.
At least on the China server they lose Titans every week and actually fight. Imagine if they were able to merge the servers. There would be stories to write about for a good long time. Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
271
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Posted - 2014.07.01 03:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
If you're a large null sec power bloc you probably have a lot of space you are looking to rent. Instead of holding the space yourself and renting it try simply letting the renter groups HAVE it but don't donate it, just let your sov lapse in lage sections of space you aren't using. Give other groups some time to get established and see where it leads. The smaller groups will either start to fight each other or they will band together against you. I'm certainly not worried about this happening though because the outcome can't be easily foreseen and as soon as you see an opportunity for a fight (massacre) you will crush the smaller group with overwhelming force, probably within days of them moving in. I don't believe for one second that you could pass up one fight now for the sake of continued content later.
Even if smaller groups do start to fight each other though it won't generate much for you and your massive coalition because you have too much at your disposal for such a group to even make at attempt to take you on. Your lack of content is due to your bloated size and extensive blue list.
I understand that it's the unpredictability you'd like to avoid but null will remain stagnant until someone releases their death grip on it. Everyone wants everyone else to do stupid things with their ships. I remember posts several years ago cautioning about how EVE was headed to the big blue doughnut and how it would not make for exciting game play and now that it's here you're bored... Only yourselves to blame. Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
949
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Posted - 2014.07.01 08:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Make nullsec occupancy an active pastime that requires people to log in as per FW, rather than the passive nonsense it is now. Winning should require more than a couple of mass logins per month. |
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Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
439
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Posted - 2014.07.01 08:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
Luwc wrote:smaller more independent groups
Luwc wrote:Pandemic Legion
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1314
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Posted - 2014.07.01 14:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Make nullsec occupancy an active pastime that requires people to log in as per FW, rather than the passive nonsense it is now. Winning should require more than a couple of mass logins per month.
I agree with what you want.
But it may be that fw is becoming more like null sec rather than the other way around. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Logan PewPew
Crazy Bird Inc. The Fire Nation Syndicate
11
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Posted - 2014.07.01 14:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
thetwilitehour wrote:What makes you think we aren't setting up for the real war, against high sec?
Burn Jita is great and all but it really only has an impact on people who barely understand what they are doing anyhow.
The rest of us go to other trade hubs and just pay 10/15% more for a few days til you guys get bored and go back to playing Dota |
Logan PewPew
Crazy Bird Inc. The Fire Nation Syndicate
11
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Posted - 2014.07.01 14:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:US NullSec is a dumb, boring, stupid mess.
At least on the China server they lose Titans every week and actually fight.
Considering how inflated the currency is on that server it makes sense. From what i understand BOTs and RMTing abound on the Chinese server.
I believe i read an article that valued a single PLEX on Serentiy at just shy of 4Bil ISK. PLEX prices / Titan Production Stats
If the above is true than sure it must not be a huge deal to throw **** away when its literally 6xLess valuable than its Western counterpart. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
949
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Posted - 2014.07.01 17:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Make nullsec occupancy an active pastime that requires people to log in as per FW, rather than the passive nonsense it is now. Winning should require more than a couple of mass logins per month. I agree with what you want. But it may be that fw is becoming more like null sec rather than the other way around.
You have continually demonstrated that you know little to nothing about faction war at any point over the last 2 years, and even less about dull sec if you see FW becoming like it.
I hope that alleviate some of your concerns. |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
276
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Posted - 2014.07.01 18:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
Anyone that's bothered to crack a history book will note that the rise of null sec empires reflect exactly that of real life empires. The ancient Greeks, then Romans followed the same pattern. Individual but localized groups fought amongst themselves day to day, and fought together against common foes. Eventually the individuality disappears as the need to unite against ever larger/more dangerous enemies forces long standing alliances and treaties to replace tribal warfare. Warfare goes from the fields next door to the border provinces far away.
Since I'm in the CFC, I can only speak to that- but it's no different than how the Roman Empire operated. Individual groups are basically left to govern themselves and maintain individual identities. Day to day, Eve is for me just my corp and alliance like everyone else. The CFC is not a visible part of how we play Eve just as being 'Roman' for most people in the ancient world meant little more than increased trade and perhaps bath houses being installed in your village.
We pay a small tribute (made smaller with each new conquest and new 'citizens' paying a share) and are called to provide bodies for war. Citizens are moved around within that empire according to resources available and need.
Whereas we used to go two jumps over to fight another group, now we move across whole regions. But this too is Eve working as intended. The rise of Capital ships and the increased wealth in general of players evolved warfare to the point now where we 'deploy' en masse. The evolution there went from flying the ship you were fighting in directly a few jumps, to moving a few combat ships yourself in a personal carrier, to full on coalition level movement operations of entire strategic assets and seeding markets overnight.
Simply put, it's better to be a citizen of a sov null empire than it is to be a citizen of the NPC factions. This is exactly what CCP intended. While they are famous for starting story threads then abandoning them at the next expansion, the one concept they have actually clung to over time is 'The Empires are losing their grip on power'.
Sov null is the only way for the 'history' of New Eden to continue. Being static and beholden to storyline, there is no real forward progress in the NPC empires. No amount of FW will ever change anything but some LP payouts. Gankers and anti-gankers come and go. But roids always respawn, no amount of mission running ever actually changes the situation with pirate factions.....it's a static world. The only way to see what happens next in New Eden, is to watch sov null. |
Deebo Singleton
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.07.01 18:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
Well there must be ~something going on in null because I still find duders to light up with autocannons there on a semi-regular basis and not all of them are ratters and exploring ships (just the majority, but vOv) and the bazillion people currently a part of various coalitions are logging in for... stuff. Sov ain't my cup 'o tea either, but I know some fairly chill people who enjoy it so nbd if they wanna spend their fifteenbux doing that stuff no sweat off my sack. There's still a lot of targets/content to be had in npc null and lowsex plus provi is a hoot and a half when I can be arse to get down there, I generally hurf in the north until there's a decent wormhole connection, better player rats up here with shinier shitabegos.
In terms of what Null shoulda, coulda, woulda been if not for GrrGoons/GrrPL, etc. Not really sure what that means. It's basically their sandbox out there. The more boring they make it, the more bear targets I get to shoot, and the more pvp-minded duders start to show up in npc/low regions where I haunt. Win-Win-Win. That's tri-winning guys. It's gettin busy enough that I need more alts to keep my local corner pi hoes in line while I roam. Can't have them not payin' daddy his cut because I don't have a ship to park off their favorite pocos. |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
220
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Posted - 2014.07.01 20:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:CCP is focusing on new player experience and forget older players, so kind of yes, EVE is dying but only for older players because CCP does not bring new content for them.
With all that time, experience and ISK it's almost like you should know how to create content for yourself... or something? Start a newbro frigate training program. I'd trade ISK for fun anyday. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331004 - thank me later |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
726
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Posted - 2014.07.01 20:42:00 -
[59] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Voyager Arran wrote:As alluring as it is to go "**** diplomacy" and burn down everything for its own sake, the end result is that you lose everything to become content for other people.
See: TEST This is true. Although I don't think TEST ever was in a position of power where they could decide to make null sec exciting.
Who do you think ignited the last 2 Delve and Fountain Wars? Were you not entertained?
GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥ -Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Faye Destroyah
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.07.01 20:49:00 -
[60] - Quote
Isnt that the Alts of the leadership of CODE?
duh duh duh |
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