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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
35
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Posted - 2014.06.07 06:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
As subject says, this idea is to allow defenders to force a duel, which if won would end the war dec.
Haven't thought much about the details, but the idea would be that at a certain time the aggressors would need to form up and fight to maintain the dec. I think this could have the potential to spark a lot of good fights/conflict, and also give those entities that are constantly war decked a reasonable way out (could then impose a cooldown timer on another dec, increased costs, etc.).
Forcing the duel could also have a cost associated with it (to prevent no-shows and forcing the aggressors to form up for nothing).
Any thoughts? |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6469
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Posted - 2014.06.07 06:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ability to end a war by a forced duel is made of 24 carat stupid. If you want to duel, go fight duels. The problems with current duels would also be there for wardec duels and probably favor large entities, since you would basically give them the ability to end the dec with a single fight of their choosing. Not to mention it's just another silly mechanic added to the system, that will be heavily gamed.
Ability to challenge the other side to a duel, that determines the fate of the wardec if both sides agree might be interesting. Sort of making a public challenge to try to dare and potentially shame your opponent for those who care about such things. "Problem" being the people caring tend to be on the losing side anyway, so any public shaming might just be another way to rub salt in to their wounds and get them riled up. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
546
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Posted - 2014.06.07 07:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
In this duel, you are not allowed to have anyone remote-support you in any way or shape and both parties must agree on a single ship type to bring? |
Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
35
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Posted - 2014.06.07 07:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Ability to end a war by a forced duel is made of 24 carat stupid. If you want to duel, go fight duels. The problems with current duels would also be there for wardec duels and probably favor large entities, since you would basically give them the ability to end the dec with a single fight of their choosing. Not to mention it's just another silly mechanic added to the system, that will be heavily gamed.
Ability to challenge the other side to a duel, that determines the fate of the wardec if both sides agree might be interesting. Sort of making a public challenge to try to dare and potentially shame your opponent for those who care about such things. "Problem" being the people caring tend to be on the losing side anyway, so any public shaming might just be another way to rub salt in to their wounds and get them riled up.
This doesn't have to be a "duel" in the traditional sense... it could be any timer-based event that has a consequence for no-show. A structure shoot or some other conflict driver. The idea of this is simply to provide the defender with a way to actually defend (a major problem with war decs as they are). Because really right now, there is no way to defend unless the aggressor wants to fight (or you want to camp a station all day or do log-off traps).
I disagree with your idea that both parties should need to agree. It's not that way to start a war dec, and it shouldn't be that way to end one. There should be some cost (time, ISK, etc.) if the defender wants to end the war - but they should have at least some way to do it. Right now war decs are ridiculously imbalanced in favor of the aggressor. For just 500 mil, the aggressor can cause every single pilot in the target alliance to have considerable more risk in high sec space. And what can the defender do about it? Not much. The main point of this though would just to make the game more fun. War decs don't add much except station games and ganks. Real fights is where the fun is, though. |
Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 08:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:In this duel, you are not allowed to have anyone remote-support you in any way or shape and both parties must agree on a single ship type to bring?
It's possible. I don't know what would be best. Acceleration gates could disallow certain ship types and impose other restrictions such as numbers. But all that might be too restrictive for the "sandbox" so IDK. I think it could be fun if done right. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
690
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 12:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Ability to end a war by a forced duel is made of 24 carat stupid Agreed.
I am familiar with the ancient concept of ending a war by having each side choose a champion to represent them in single combat, but this is EVE: Online not Ancient Greece: Online. Besides, it's a mutual agreement and even then the loser can decide to fight on anyways.
Here's my suggestion - convo the diplomat for whoever has war decced you and propose an arranged fight. If you win, they drop the war and if they win you pay them to drop the war. That's basically what you wanted, but with no new game mechanics involved. Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
37
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Posted - 2014.06.07 15:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:Ability to end a war by a forced duel is made of 24 carat stupid Agreed. I am familiar with the ancient concept of ending a war by having each side choose a champion to represent them in single combat, but this is EVE: Online not Ancient Greece: Online. Besides, it's a mutual agreement and even then the loser can decide to fight on anyways. Here's my suggestion - convo the diplomat for whoever has war decced you and propose an arranged fight. If you win, they drop the war and if they win you pay them to drop the war. That's basically what you wanted, but with no new game mechanics involved.
A war dec isn't a war. It's a license from concord to shoot certain pilots in space. That license is given by CONCORD without any mutual agreement between the two parties involved. Having a game mechanic that allows the defender to revoke that license (obviously not for free) would be good IMO.
Your suggestion to convo the diplomat and propose an arranged fight... I don't know how you can say that with a straight face lol.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348490 |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6824
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
As soon as they remove the dec dodging exploit, we can talk about adding more ways to get rid of wardecs. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
37
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:As soon as they remove the dec dodging exploit, we can talk about adding more ways to get rid of wardecs.
I'm not familiar with the dec dodging exploit. Is that leaving corp and being unable to return for a week? If that's what you're referring to, I wouldn't call that an exploit - maybe a bad mechanic if anything.
If that's the case, that problem only exists because there is no way to end a war dec for the defender. It's at the whim of the aggressor, and they can war dec you forever if they want. If there was a way to actually end the war dec via valid game mechanics, then people wouldn't feel the "exploit" is their only option. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6824
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:As soon as they remove the dec dodging exploit, we can talk about adding more ways to get rid of wardecs. I'm not familiar with the dec dodging exploit. Is that leaving corp and being unable to return for a week? If that's what you're referring to, I wouldn't call that an exploit - maybe a bad mechanic if anything. If that's the case, that problem only exists because there is no way to end a war dec for the defender. It's at the whim of the aggressor, and they can war dec you forever if they want. If there was a way to actually end the war dec via valid game mechanics, then people wouldn't feel the "exploit" is their only option.
It refers to the act of dissolving a corporation to nullify the wardec when it is declared, then reforming the corporation moments later.
Using this, it is possible to be 100% immune to wars in highsec. So there is a way to end a wardec for the defender. It works 100% of the time and costs pocket change. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
37
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Posted - 2014.06.07 16:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Gavin Dax wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:As soon as they remove the dec dodging exploit, we can talk about adding more ways to get rid of wardecs. I'm not familiar with the dec dodging exploit. Is that leaving corp and being unable to return for a week? If that's what you're referring to, I wouldn't call that an exploit - maybe a bad mechanic if anything. If that's the case, that problem only exists because there is no way to end a war dec for the defender. It's at the whim of the aggressor, and they can war dec you forever if they want. If there was a way to actually end the war dec via valid game mechanics, then people wouldn't feel the "exploit" is their only option. It refers to the act of dissolving a corporation to nullify the wardec when it is declared, then reforming the corporation moments later. Using this, it is possible to be 100% immune to wars in highsec. So there is a way to end a wardec for the defender. It works 100% of the time and costs pocket change.
Maybe that works for a corp of like 10 people :)
It's not nearly as easy as you make it sound. And if your corp is that small it's incredibly cheap to just war dec them again anyway. Nobody would ever do this with anything but a really small corp.
Just to add - early on when I first started to play EVE, our corp was hit with a war dec from one of the infamous trade hub station camper alliances. Eventually, this resulted in pilots leaving corp gradually to avoid the war dec on their own accord. The corp was basically dead after a week or two. This was after months of playing together and doing regular corp ops. Many of those players subsequently left EVE for good. Because they were bored and no longer had a significant social framework within the game, I'd imagine this made leaving the game an easy choice to make.
I'm willing to bet this happens a lot in EVE. It's not uncommon for groups of new players that join at the same time to form a corp together. Once that corp inevitably gets war decced, players are introduced to the dumb game mechanic that is being at the whim of ("no fight") station campers in HS with no way to fight back. I think it's important for CCP to consider improvements to this mechanic. |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
48
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 11:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:As subject says, this idea is to allow defenders to force a duel, which if won would end the war dec.
Haven't thought much about the details, but the idea would be that at a certain time the aggressors would need to form up and fight to maintain the dec. I think this could have the potential to spark a lot of good fights/conflict, and also give those entities that are constantly war decked a reasonable way out (could then impose a cooldown timer on another dec, increased costs, etc.).
Forcing the duel could also have a cost associated with it (to prevent no-shows and forcing the aggressors to form up for nothing).
Any thoughts?
this is so bad on many levels.
no way for this thing work as intended, it would be abused to hell. |
Count Szadek
I Want My Tears Back
6
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 03:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Or, you know, you could just kill the aggressors until they are Surrendering :P |
Ohhhh Feely Nice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 04:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:As soon as they remove the dec dodging exploit, we can talk about adding more ways to get rid of wardecs. As soon as they remove the ability to permawardec corps that are much weaker than yours, we can talk about adding ways to inhibit corps from dec dodging.
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