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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
525
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Posted - 2014.06.08 21:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Simple suggestion, really.
Ditch NPC police attacking negative sec status players in highsec.
Instead, make negative sec status players legal targets in highsec, maintaining the current progression (-2.0 in 1.0, -2.5 in 0.9 and so on, until -5.0 freely engageable anywhere).
Why?
To allow lowsec PVPers to go to highsec, shoot at eachother or get shot at by highseccers (if they can manage it ).
More content in highsec, while maintaining the current 'safety' mechanics for any player with sec status above -2.0. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6887
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Posted - 2014.06.08 21:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like it.
Facpo should honestly only be screwing with people in Faction Warfare, if you ask me. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2386
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Posted - 2014.06.08 21:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
I could get on board with this so long as CONCORD still functioned like they do now. -á --á |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1365
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Posted - 2014.06.08 22:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sec status yes. Low Standings however... No. If you are low standings with an NPC Faction they should attack you in their space. |
Gaijin Lanis
Surely You're Joking
45
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Posted - 2014.06.08 22:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Time traveling CCP Developer here. I have approved this suggested and implemented it eleven years in your past. I left the faction police so low-security/standings players can't just hide in hisec POSes.
(I won't actually be a CCP developer until 2021) The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
46
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Posted - 2014.06.08 23:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
No. Until digital internet passwort will become mandatory and Eve account can be tighted to one, making the player itself reponsible for his actions, not some disposable character, this won't work. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6892
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Posted - 2014.06.08 23:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:No. Until digital internet passwort will become mandatory and Eve account can be tighted to one, making the player itself reponsible for his actions, not some disposable character, this won't work.
First of all, it sounds like you're advocating doxxing, which is really creepy if you ask me. No one deserves to have their privacy invaded by you because of actions in a videogame, let alone you getting to make them "responsible" for videogame actions.
Secondly, "disposable" alts are highly against the terms of service, and if you have any proof of it happening aside from you believing the urban legend, please report it. I can tell you straight up though, as a fairly prolific highsec douchebag, that recycling gank alts is in fact a myth. The GMs can come knocking if you even delete a character that used to have bad sec status 6 months prior. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
46
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Posted - 2014.06.08 23:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
No, I'm not advocating it, just saying that ideas like "Lets give some important and profitably exploitable NPC function to players" will work as intended only if we could somehow reliably discern different characters of one player from characters of others - what won't happen in forseeable future.
And by disposability I meant the ease of swaping characters in Eve. So such system would be exploited as hell by small group of wicked-minded individuals having enough alts at their hands (which is not so hard nowdays, when people earn billions and you can sell old toon and buy another on character market legally). So it will not be a "police force with a couple of corrupted cops" like OP, probably, imagined, more like "bunch of thugs with authority".
Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6894
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Posted - 2014.06.08 23:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Um, what? I think you misunderstood the proposal. That, or you're reading something into this that I'm not. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
46
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Posted - 2014.06.09 00:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Um, what? I think you misunderstood the proposal. That, or you're reading something into this that I'm not. Yes, indeed, I got it wrong, should get some sleep, probably. In any case, this won't work as intended too. Almost no new content will be generated this way as highsec dwellers almost never will attack fearfull flagged lowsec shark showed up in their peacefull bay - just out of caution, being afraide that this is some kind of trap. And most of them are fitted for PvE anyway, they won't fly to station to fetch some PvP fit (if they even have such) and catch you, they'll just proceed whith their life and ignore, mostly. So this proposal is simply "remove this annoying police, we don't want to face the cosequences of our actions anymore" Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6898
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Posted - 2014.06.09 00:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:So this proposal is simply "remove this annoying police, we don't want to face the cosequences of our actions anymore"
Not really. The proposal even cedes opening up people who wouldn't be attackable before, to being attacked. Any sec status in which you would be attacked by the NPCs will instead flag you in that system.
Meaning that a character with neg 2, who in Jita would not be attackable by players, would now be fair game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
46
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Posted - 2014.06.09 00:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Meaning that a character with neg 2, who in Jita would not be attackable by players, would now be fair game.
Do you really think there will be many ppl in Jita who will pull this? Each time I'm undocking in dodixie I see this classical scam fight on undock, and most of other see and understand it too and they know perfectly that you should know better than attacking some seemingly easy target conviniently laying still in vicinity. Untill you'll get really unlucky and some FW gang will spot you, you will be pretty safe here. Well, at least after first several incidents in which some gullible highsec dwellers will be blown up to shreds.
Well, probably Jita's SG will be threat too, but anyway, what lowsec outlaw will fly to jita full of SG with something more expensive than shuttle and empty clone? Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
206
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Posted - 2014.06.09 00:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
What about keeping the current faction police, but every time someone comes into a hisec system that the faction doesn't like they get a suspect timer go off, and players get faction LP for whatever empire they're helping when they shoot the guy down? The same could go for actual pirates; you get concord LP if you shoot them down in hisec. Making policing a new profession would be interesting, to say the least. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2886
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Posted - 2014.06.09 02:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I like it.
Facpo should honestly only be screwing with people in Faction Warfare, if you ask me.
That's what the Faction Navy is for. "i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh |
Conrad Makbure
Division One Security
72
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Posted - 2014.06.09 03:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Concord has to stay in the game in their current design with response times and force. I like the idea of making hi-sec police a new profession; perhaps people in the force can reduce response times for 0.5 and up when a pirate incident happens. Only a PvP fitted ship should be viable for the fight, i.e., no huge buffs for any fit.
This can be exploited by people who get a secondary account just to infiltrate the player police force, so not sure how to get around that. Employment history? Sec status history? Faction status history? Total play time? |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
527
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 06:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Facpo should honestly only be screwing with people in Faction Warfare, if you ask me. Omnathious Deninard wrote:I could get on board with this so long as CONCORD still functioned like they do now. Nevyn Auscent wrote:If you are low standings with an NPC Faction they should attack you in their space. Conrad Makbure wrote:Concord has to stay in the game in their current design with response times and force. YES to all. This is just about Faction Navy chasing negative sec status players.
CONCORD mechanics would remain exactly the same.
Faction Navy mechanics would remain exactly the same (attacking enemy militiamen and players with low faction standings). |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
527
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 06:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Almost no new content will be generated this way as highsec dwellers almost never will attack fearfull flagged lowsec shark showed up in their peacefull bay - just out of caution, being afraide that this is some kind of trap. This is true in the current 'metagame', where criminals (-5.0 sec status and below) in highsec are almost exclusively suicide gankers. And indeed players typically go suspect 'on purpose' to bait other players into attacking them.
In my vision, legal targets in highsec would instead become quite commonplace. Many of them would be just minding their own business, or hunting eachother. It could be well worth it for an average highseccer to 'give it a shot' in a relatively cheap ship. Just as an example, a sniping hurricane or tornado that could try to alpha a 'criminal' frigate without putting himself at risk of being tackled.
Also, not all highseccers are 'carebears'. I imagine fun skirmishes between highsec mercs and lowsec pirates.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
527
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 06:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:What about keeping the current faction police, but every time someone comes into a hisec system that the faction doesn't like they get a suspect timer go off, and players get faction LP for whatever empire they're helping when they shoot the guy down? The same could go for actual pirates; you get concord LP if you shoot them down in hisec. Making policing a new profession would be interesting, to say the least. This could be quite interesting indeed.
But I think eliminating faction police is actually a necessary prerequisite. Just look at highsec today: not many pirates around, except suicide gankers that 'run-hit-and-die' without giving anybody a real chance to nab them. Also, since they plan on dying to CONCORD anyway, they almost never fly anything but cheap ships with empty pods.
To make 'policing' a viable profession, you need lots of targets. With faction police, pirates just mostly avoid highsec altogether because it's too much of a hassle. Today, to kill pirates you need to go to lowsec and ultimately become a pirate yourself! |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
553
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Posted - 2014.06.09 06:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Isn't it CCP's vision to drive people out of High sec into Low sec and 00 sec? And you want a mechanic implemented that drags people back to High sec, who already live where they are supposed to live? |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
527
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 06:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:This can be exploited by people who get a secondary account just to infiltrate the player police force, so not sure how to get around that. Employment history? Sec status history? Faction status history? Total play time? There wouldn't be a 'player police force' game mechanic. Anybody could shoot a pirate/criminal, simple as that.
Sure, people could and probably would make player-created 'police forces', but then it would simply be up to them to manage recruitment, just like any player corp/alliance. |
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
527
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 06:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Isn't it CCP's vision to drive people out of High sec into Low sec and 00 sec? And you want a mechanic implemented that drags people back to High sec, who already live where they are supposed to live? I don't think CCP's vision is to drive people out of high sec per se. I think their vision is to encourage player-generated content and to make all space appealing and interesting.
A livelier high sec wouldn't be a place to drive people out of. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
553
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 07:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
No, you have that wrong. People should not stay forever in High sec, they should go where players are absolutely free to generate whatever content they want to create. High sec is not that place; that place is Low sec and 00 sec.
What you want is players, who already live in Low sec and 00 sec, to come back to High sec to PVP there in a safe and controlled environment (no cynos, no bubbles, no bombs, no huge blobs). That is a terribly wrong approach.
Besides, your first post contains nothing that is not already possible: Players with -2.0 can already be freely engaged in 1.0 systems, players with -2.5 and lower in 1.0-0.9 systems, etc. Only a very minute number of players actually does it. Players are also incapable of building up proper defense forces even in Low sec and 00 sec (lackluster Home def fleets, anyone?), the vast majority wants quickies: Quick in, gank, lolgfsmack in local, quick out back to station. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2358
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 11:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
I dunno ... I wouldn't mind it if you were (for example) -1.0 sec status and being "suspect" throughout hisec.
But they'd have to re-work sec status gains / losses too, so that there is an incentive for people to actually go and shoot that guy with negative sec status flying through the gate, other than "hey, maybe there's a shiny inside" (not that the possibility of a shiny isn't good enough of a reason).
Edit -- clarity. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
108
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 12:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
CONCORD mechanics would remain exactly the same.
Faction Navy mechanics would remain exactly the same (attacking enemy militiamen and players with low faction standings).
You should update the OP with this for clarity.
For what it's worth, all I can see it doing is opening up high sec more to low sec players in bigger ships.
Bears aren't going to shoot flashy yellows - and as much as people may frown on that, there is scarcely a flashy yellow in high sec that isn't bait with 54156146547143614341345136874135453456450413541514 logis in system just in case they might actually scratch their precious paintwork. So I can't exactly fault them for avoiding them, engaging is about as smart as autopiloting a hauler full of plex from one side of eve to the other.. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
532
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 16:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
CONCORD mechanics would remain exactly the same.
Faction Navy mechanics would remain exactly the same (attacking enemy militiamen and players with low faction standings).
You should update the OP with this for clarity. For what it's worth, all I can see it doing is opening up high sec more to low sec players in bigger ships. Bears aren't going to shoot flashy yellows - and as much as people may frown on that, there is scarcely a flashy yellow in high sec that isn't bait with 54156146547143614341345136874135453456450413541514 logis in system just in case they might actually scratch their precious paintwork. So I can't exactly fault them for avoiding them, engaging is about as smart as autopiloting a hauler full of plex from one side of eve to the other.. Good idea, thanks, OP updated.
I honestly do not know if and how many 'bears' would shoot flashies. The idea is, give 'em potentially many more flashies to shoot! Then it's up to them. Also, not all people living in highsec are PVP-averse. I think RvB would have a blast, for example.
Look at it this way: worst case, nothing much changes. Best case, more explosions! And more people dipping their toes in pvp. What's not to like? |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
556
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 16:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
That it won't stop there once you (representative for the Remove-Concord-crowd) have your way. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2685
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 17:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Want to see what player owned law enforcement is like?
Goto a FW lowsec and "welp" in local with an expensive ship, hoping the "Player POPO faction of your choice" will save you.
Then come back here and discuss the "pros" and "cons" of your idea... Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
533
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 17:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:No, you have that wrong. People should not stay forever in High sec, they should go where players are absolutely free to generate whatever content they want to create. High sec is not that place; that place is Low sec and 00 sec. What you want is players, who already live in Low sec and 00 sec, to come back to High sec to PVP there in a safe and controlled environment (no cynos, no bubbles, no bombs, no huge blobs). That is a terribly wrong approach. Besides, your first post contains nothing that is not already possible: Players with -2.0 can already be freely engaged in 1.0 systems, players with -2.5 and lower in 1.0-0.9 systems, etc. Only a very minute number of players actually does it. Players are also incapable of building up proper defense forces even in Low sec and 00 sec (lackluster Home def fleets, anyone?), the vast majority wants quickies: Quick in, gank, lolgfsmack in local, quick out back to station. I assume we'd both want the same thing: more PVP in EVE.
But I'm not sure I understand your objections. Why is PVP without, say, hotdrops bad? Isn't it just different but equally enjoyable?
Also, lowsec is already pretty good for PVP imo, but I often hear people complaining that it's hard to get decent and frequent fights in null, especailly sov null. Not sure if getting everybody into sov null is the best way to generate more fights and content...
Anyway, I honestly have no idea if there's a space where players 'should' play and what that space would be.
I'm just acknowledging that, for several reasons, lots of people live or travel in highsec. So I say, let's get rid of a highsec mechanic (faction police) that isn't really necessary to 'protect' people (CONCORD already does that), but is indirectly limiting PVP opportunities.
Rivr Luzade wrote:That it won't stop there once you (representative for the Remove-Concord-crowd) have your way. LOL I'm just throwing some personal ideas, I don't represent anyone. For what is worth, I personally don't see any point in removing CONCORD. |
Marsha Mallow
992
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 17:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Looks interesting.
Long term I would like to see players replace Concord personally, but I'm not sure how it could be done without massive problems so I won't go into it here.
Another option might be to allow players to join the Faction Police as enforcers based upon their standings. If there were enough players in faction policing we wouldn't need NPCs. Again, I'm not sure how a corp would work as a hybrid of NPCs/Players though, might be better to split them. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
547
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Posted - 2014.06.09 17:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
I don't think players could ever replace police in hisec without breaking it as a more safe area for beginners and those who want to avoid PvP if possible. I don't think there is any way you could trust the players in Eve to enforce law and order in a fair and proportionate manne,r hence the need for Concord in hisec.
For more PvP more people need to be enticed into losec and null...
And in terms of the OP I'd be happy for players in FW to assist the NPC police but don't think the number would even be high enough to replace the Faction Police. |
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