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Pamela Penken
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2014.06.13 23:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just lost a ship because I got stuck on an asteroid while trying to warp out... Or rather I was stuck on an asteroid trying to warp out when a foe warped in and scrammed and killed me.
Now dying or losing stuff due to getting stuck in or on geography due to faulty models or collision boxes is never fun. Which is why making sure that doesn't happen is so important in most games.
Which bring me to my questions;
Why are the collisionboxes for asteroids so oversized compared to the actual model in the first place?
I could have fit a battleship between my ship and the asteroid in question yet the game insisted that my ship try to avoid it making it wobble up and down when it tried to warp. In fact, while bumping into things seems to be the norm for EvE, asteroids seem to be the exception as anyone that's flown in a belt knows your ship will start turning and twisting to avoid asteroids that visually is no where close to the ship, often times not even in the direction of the flight path. I mean my ship was parallel to the asteroid with nothing, not that particular astroid or any other objects in front of the ship or even visible when looking in the forward direction. In fact, the visual distance between my ship and the model of the asteroid was so big that it was only by looking at the overview you could see that I was close to it. Yet my ship kept alternating between trying to fly around an invisible collision box and aligning out. Not succeding with either.
Why hasn't anything been don't to avoid that people get stuck on asteroids while warping?
It isn't like getting stuck on asteroids while trying to warp out adds any important content to the game. Quite the opposite since getting stuck on invisible collision boxes is something most players of computer games would consider an annyoing bug. And it isn't like this is a difficult problem to fix. I can think of several solutions on the top of my head, first of all fix the collision boxes so their sizes coresponds with the actual model of the asteroid. And while giving ships a better AI for paths when warping out or implementing some sort of immunity when stuck on a asteroid is rather complex solutions, the game already makes objects intangible when the speed reach 75% of maximum so why not make that happen a lot sooner. It wouldn't change things to any significant degree as ships would still need to align and speed up to warp and could still be bumped during that. The only difference would be that it would let you warp instead of getting stuck.
I know I'm ranting but I just lost a ship and it's quite valuable cargo of loot by no fault of my own.
Now I don't mind losing ships it's part of the game. you just learn from it and move on.
Except in this case there was nothing to learn from it. I didn't make any mistake that got me killed. I can't see invisible things so I had no way of knowing that my path was blocked. And the guy who killed me wasn't a better pilot than me or if he was it really didn't affect the outcome as I was stuck and it took me several seconds before I managed to unstuck myself from the invisible thing that had me immobile in space. After all it takes a while figuring out which way is blocked if you can't see it. In fact, the only reason it even was a fight was because an invisible wall prevented me from warping. If I hadn't been we would never even seen each other as I would have warped off before he had even warped in.
So yeah when I lose a ship because my computer blows up or some bug prevents me do anything about it I do mind it.
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3805
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Posted - 2014.06.14 00:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Please do not mention the physics engine. It makes the programmers nervous. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2268
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Posted - 2014.06.14 00:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because they're spheres. The case of the bottomless dress. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
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Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
658
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Posted - 2014.06.14 00:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Why were you so damned close to the thing in the first place? Strips go out to 15k, or better yet get above or below the damed things and have a clear path to your warpout of you have to get close to the things. "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á |
BLACK-STAR
640
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Posted - 2014.06.14 00:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
I nearly had an embarrassing encounter by NPCs in a 1b+ Machariel. I could tank, but usually panic plays a factor and you sometimes lose common sense.
I dropped out of warp inside rocks and I couldn't align, I was bumped and got scrambled. Point blank range and only defense was drones and cancelling the warp and manually click furiously out of the rock and punching the afterburner F-key. I fought out alive from that predicament.
I returned and destroyed all. I can only understand how OP feels slightly. Furious. - If violence does not solve your problem, you may not have used enough of it. |
GreenSeed
1039
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Posted - 2014.06.14 00:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
the problem with asteroids is that hitboxes don't seem to update as the asteroid gets smaller. just stay at range. |
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
299
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Posted - 2014.06.14 01:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
You answered your own question.
Pamela Penken wrote: Why are the collisionboxes for asteroids so oversized compared to the actual model in the first place?
Pamela Penken wrote:I just lost a ship because I got stuck on an asteroid while trying to warp out... Or rather I was stuck on an asteroid trying to warp out when a foe warped in and scrammed and killed me.
Profit favors the prepared |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
7992
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Posted - 2014.06.14 01:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Because they're spheres. Yes, so when a ship hits it, it'll eventually slide across the collision boundary rather than getting stuck if using a cube, or even mesh collision. If you put the collision on the mesh, it's a much greater load on the client computer. A cube is the most resource friendly, but a sphere fits better in this case, wile at the mesh level it would be a nightmare for slower computers.
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stoicfaux
4979
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Posted - 2014.06.14 01:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's not a collision box. It's the effective boundary indicating how an object's mass interferes with our propulsion systems. Remember, we're not using engines based on Newtonian physics to move, instead we're "surfing" on a wave of bent time/space, a wave that is impaired by nearby gravity wells.
Now if our ships had a large deflector dish, we could work miracles.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2268
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Posted - 2014.06.14 01:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Because they're spheres. Yes, so when a ship hits it, it'll eventually slide across the collision boundary rather than getting stuck if using a cube, or even mesh collision. If you put the collision on the mesh, it's a much greater load on the client computer. A cube is the most resource friendly, but a sphere fits better in this case, wile at the mesh level it would be a nightmare for slower computers. Only that the sphere to sphere collision runs on the server, not on the client.
And the most resource friendly collision detection method is spherical collision detection.
Simply because it's basic math. You just wanna show off ... and fail.
"Simple sphere collision detection D3D" wrote:BOOL bSphereTest(CObject3D* obj1, CObject3D* obj2 ) { D3DVECTOR relPos = obj1->prPosition - obj2->prPosition; float dist = relPos.x * relPos.x + relPos.y * relPos.y + relPos.z * relPos.z; float minDist = obj1->fRadius + obj2->fRadius; return dist <= minDist * minDist; }
http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/math-and-physics/simple-bounding-sphere-collision-detection-r1234
Axis aligned bounding boxes.
"Simple axis aligned bounding boxes collision detection" wrote:return (a.max_x() >= b.min_x() and a.min_x() <= b.max_x()) and (a.max_y() >= b.min_y() and a.min_y() <= b.max_y()) and (a.max_z() >= b.min_z() and a.min_z() <= b.max_z())
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3631437/cube-on-cube-collision-detection-algorithm
I suggest visiting http://flipcode.com/archives/articles.shtml and the developer toolbox. The case of the bottomless dress. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
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stoicfaux
4979
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Posted - 2014.06.14 02:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Your collision box so fat that...
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Jamagh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
222
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Posted - 2014.06.14 02:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Why were you so damned close to the thing in the first place? Strips go out to 15k, or better yet get above or below the damed things and have a clear path to your warpout of you have to get close to the things.
This. I mine on my main, and I have to say, if you are sitting in the belt lurking beside a rock, you deserve to get shot. "Please stop reopening silly rumor threads."-á CCP Navigator. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1862
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Posted - 2014.06.14 02:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Never warp to 0 to belts, acceleration gate or other similar objects.
Warp to 10 and you'll never be caught. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
361
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Posted - 2014.06.14 03:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ok, great... here I am... Saturday morning, 5:00AM having breakfast while browsing through forums and preparing for a hell of a working weekend, and I get the stackoverflow link That's programmer's luck
To the OP, fit a mining laser next time and mine the rock that's preventing you from warping out. It's the only way to be sure - no rock = no bumping My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Ohhhh Feely Nice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2014.06.14 03:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Webvan wrote:[quote=Solecist Project]Because they're spheres. Simply because it's basic math. You just wanna show off ... and fail. Golden coming from you. You spend all day showing off on these forums... and fail.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
1623
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Posted - 2014.06.14 04:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fanfest 2012 asteroid PhysX collision demo
Yep. .. when everything else is gone .. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
14334
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Posted - 2014.06.14 04:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Miner problems.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Atalia Madeveda
TaxDoge
0
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Posted - 2014.06.14 05:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
:spaghetticodeonline: |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
362
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Posted - 2014.06.14 06:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Atalia Madeveda wrote::spaghetticodeonline: That's actually not unique to EVE... it's an industry standard My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2270
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Posted - 2014.06.14 06:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ohhhh Feely Nice wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Webvan wrote:[quote=Solecist Project]Because they're spheres. Simply because it's basic math. You just wanna show off ... and fail. Golden coming from you. You spend all day showing off on these forums... and fail. Point out a post of mine where I deliberately try to show off how smart I am while actually being factually wrong. Good luck. (:
npc forum alt. so mighty and brave! The case of the bottomless dress. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
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Don Purple
250
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Posted - 2014.06.14 07:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Op. Its all your fault. Learn from your mistakes.
I am just here to snuggle. |
Azov Rassau
Neo CONCORD
41
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Posted - 2014.06.14 08:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Don Purple wrote:Op. Its all your fault. Learn from your mistakes.
Not really. I don't know if this is exactly what OP is talking about, but there are times when, in order to GTFO, you warp to an asteroid belt within 20-30 km for example, and you unintentionally land right between many asteroids. Such situation (inability to move, to warp, being stuck, even temporary) can be VERY annoying especially in lowsec with hostiles around looking for you. I experienced it not long ago and I can assure you that it's horrible.
But yes, after experiencing that, it is indeed important to learn from that "mistake" and warp to the belt at like 50-100km or somewhere else. No AFKing. -áSafety First. -áUse D-Scan, Check Local. -áBe Alert. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5387
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Posted - 2014.06.14 08:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Because they're spheres.
That doesn't explain why the collision boundaries are so damned huge. The reason they are huge is that the asteroids were "V3ed" some time back, but their collision boundaries weren't updated to match. So these days you can collide with rocks that aren't even on your screen.
I've warped to a belt at 70km before and ended up being the ball in a pinball machine, bouncing off asteroids for tens of seconds. More than enough time for someone to explode my ship. So I no longer have asteroid belts on my emergency warp tab. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
615
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Posted - 2014.06.14 09:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jamagh wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:Why were you so damned close to the thing in the first place? Strips go out to 15k, or better yet get above or below the damed things and have a clear path to your warpout of you have to get close to the things. This. I mine on my main, and I have to say, if you are sitting in the belt lurking beside a rock, you deserve to get shot.
Miners aren't the only ones that ever go to asteroid belts. Rats and clone negotiators and mordu patrols hang around belts too, you know. I lost a frigate the other night to the stupid asteroid collision sphres, since speed tanking a mob becomes impossible when you're constantly being dropped to half/zero speed by asteroids that are nowhere close to you.
It really is just bad programming. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2273
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Posted - 2014.06.14 09:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Because they're spheres. That doesn't explain why the collision boundaries are so damned huge. The reason they are huge is that the asteroids were "V3ed" some time back, but their collision boundaries weren't updated to match. So these days you can collide with rocks that aren't even on your screen. I've warped to a belt at 70km before and ended up being the ball in a pinball machine, bouncing off asteroids for tens of seconds. More than enough time for someone to explode my ship. So I no longer have asteroid belts on my emergency warp tab. Yeah that's right. It was just a stupid comment targeting the 'boxes'.
I don't know why the spheres don'g get adapted dynamically. There shouldn't be that many asteroids per second that need a resize and I think the diameter is known at runtime, no?
Fun sidenote: I tried microjumping into a big fat roid to see what happens ... ... but the game cheats and puts me in front or back of it instead. :( The case of the bottomless dress. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
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Jur Tissant
Hemah Industries
81
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Posted - 2014.06.14 15:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Don Purple wrote:Op. Its all your fault. Learn from your mistakes.
Shouldn't be blaming OP for falling victim to a nonsensical hitbox system. It needs to be fixed. There are valid reasons a miner might get up close and personal with rocks - for example, to cut down on mining drone travel time. We shouldn't have to anticipate bumping into an asteroid's mysterious aura when trying to make a getaway. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5349
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Posted - 2014.06.14 16:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jur Tissant wrote:Don Purple wrote:Op. Its all your fault. Learn from your mistakes.
Shouldn't be blaming OP for falling victim to a nonsensical hitbox system. It needs to be fixed. There are valid reasons a miner might get up close and personal with rocks - for example, to cut down on mining drone travel time. We shouldn't have to anticipate bumping into its mysterious aura when trying to make a getaway.
Yeah cos 8500m is such an :effort:
Also
Pamela Penken wrote: I know I'm ranting
Case closed "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. "How the **** can you think you are entitled to be such an *******?-áYou're lucky you're ALLOWED to have an opinion ..." - Solecist Project |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22492
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Posted - 2014.06.14 16:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:I don't know why the spheres don'g get adapted dynamically. There shouldn't be that many asteroids per second that need a resize and I think the diameter is known at runtime, no? Oh, I don't knowGǪ there's an awful lot of miners out there, and an awful lot of asteroids going *pop*. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1524
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Posted - 2014.06.14 16:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
had similar loss some time ago....
It happened when player owned POCOs in high-sec.... i used to warp to planets... and once i got right inside POCO.... and stuck inside.... I have had about 20 seconds to get out (Caldary high-sec + gallente FW pilot ).... my ship didn't make it.... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
445
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Posted - 2014.06.14 19:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: I don't know why the spheres don'g get adapted dynamically. There shouldn't be that many asteroids per second that need a resize and I think the diameter is known at runtime, no?
Asteroids only update sizes at downtime. Other than that, the asteroid will remain the same size until it's fully mined, at which point it disappears. |
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