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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
900
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Posted - 2014.06.16 14:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
How do you plan on sustaining 4% interest on deposits? As most in eve already know, profits and capital growth are not linear. A good read here could be "a post made by Tornsoul discussing the glass ceiling thread. Where not a single person could come up with a sustainable 1% return on 1 trillion isk. How do you plan to overcome that problem?
Regarding your API, you can create limited view access on your corporation key that would only show deposits and does not reveal any other information. This way you can prove that "slickboy Danny" never made a deposit.
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korrey
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
18
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Posted - 2014.06.16 15:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
I, for one, think this sounds shaydeh. |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
260
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Posted - 2014.06.16 15:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Did I roll this out at the totally wrong time or what? Maybe...
In light of your question I assume that you aren't a MD regular. So may I direct your attention to this thread about a notorious enterprise that closed its doors two days before you came in. At least it's entertaining to read and it might explain why people are even more sceptical towards a new bank than usual. |
Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
0
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Posted - 2014.06.16 15:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Grendell wrote:How do you plan on sustaining 4% interest on deposits? As most in eve already know, profits and capital growth are not linear. A good read here could be "a post made by Tornsoul discussing the glass ceiling thread. Where not a single person could come up with a sustainable 1% return on 1 trillion isk. How do you plan to overcome that problem? For the time being a 4% return has been decided as that is what I could reasonably sustain for a few months even if I were to for some reason have 0% income. Once the bank is a little more stable, the interest will vary based on projected interest for the coming months, to ensure the float can sustain the interest. If I were overachieving on trade, the interest rate would rise as the float grows, and if I were to underachieve the interest rate would fall as the float shrinks.
As time goes on and I reach limitations on what I can reasonably achieve I'll need to find further ways of generating income, which will lead off with collateralised loans and branching out to trusted industry partners who would essentially be taking partially collateralised loans.
It may be that a ceiling will be reached where the float will no longer be able to be sustained, and at that point I would consider speaking to some of the investors about the possibility of reducing their balance, but that would be an absolute worst case scenario, and is beyond the projected scale of the bank. The idea is that it's a consumer grade bank, more suitable for individuals with smaller balances that behemoth investors with hundreds of billions to invest.
Grendell wrote:Regarding your API, you can create limited view access on your corporation key that would only show deposits and does not reveal any other information. This way you can prove that "slickboy Danny" never made a deposit. I could, however that would reveal other investors as well as the names of some of my traders and other alts that I've been using to test the system over the last few weeks. Once I've finished training up my independent haulers and industrialists (so I will know they aren't linked to my main) and can release my mains identity it will be less of an issue to reveal API keys to trusted players (like yourself). For this particular instance, it's pretty obvious that it's a hoax since it's too soon after launch to have waited the withdraw period, but in the future I'm just going to have to take situations like that on the chin and work on through them.
Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
1
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Posted - 2014.06.16 15:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Did I roll this out at the totally wrong time or what? Maybe... In light of your question I assume that you aren't a MD regular. So may I direct your attention to this thread about a notorious enterprise that closed its doors two days before you came in. At least it's entertaining to read and it might explain why people are even more sceptical towards a new bank than usual. I'm a regular reader occasional poster, I just was not aware that McNorris had closed. I've pretty much ignored that thread since it's creation and I don't tend to look back at threads I've already disregarded. A definite error in judgement there admittedly. Not much that can be done about it now though except rolling on. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Scion Lex
Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management
70
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Posted - 2014.06.16 18:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
...an error in judgement. If you consider that an 'error in judgement' then your scam must be amazing. |
Alex Grison
Grison Industrial Group
862
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Do you know what's really savings made simple?
The wallet. yes |
Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
1
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Posted - 2014.06.17 06:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Alex Grison wrote:Do you know what's really savings made simple?
The wallet. That one's been done on page 1, and the interest rate on the wallet is terrible.
Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Professor of Economics
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.06.17 14:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
I've just put in 2m in the bank, just to test it out.
Everything checks out, he actually has a back-end control panel for the investors rather than just some fluffy website.
Here's a screenshot: http://puu.sh/9xA5B/14149e4af5.png |
Derp Durrr
Team Evil
236
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Posted - 2014.06.17 18:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ah, there you are. Spamming Jita local. Founder of the soon-to-be Legendary Tournament series -=DESTRUCTION DERPY=- Are you up for the challenge? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=350711&find=unread Join our ingame channel "Destruction Derpy" today! |
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Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.06.17 18:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Not really many other ways to advertise in EVE, especially when you get attacked non-stop on the forums regardless of your intent. So while I'm trading I chuck out ads. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Hexxx
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2014.06.17 19:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Not really many other ways to advertise in EVE, especially when you get attacked non-stop on the forums regardless of your intent. So while I'm trading I chuck out ads.
Trust, but verify.
Or, if we do it your way, just trust. It isn't that hard to find a reputable and credible third party to do a sanity check on your API. If you are serious in your "intent" this isn't so big of a deal.
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Korgan Medel
Veerhouven Ventures
11
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Posted - 2014.06.17 19:13:00 -
[43] - Quote
Please this is too funny Professor of Economics brand new toon already got ISK doubling in his profile looks decidedly like a tanned shaved headed McMorris declaring that this is indeed a legit venture. |
Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.06.17 19:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hexxx wrote:Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Not really many other ways to advertise in EVE, especially when you get attacked non-stop on the forums regardless of your intent. So while I'm trading I chuck out ads. Trust, but verify. Or, if we do it your way, just trust. It isn't that hard to find a reputable and credible third party to do a sanity check on your API. If you are serious in your "intent" this isn't so big of a deal. It wouldn't be, no, but then I'd also need to trust the third party, I'd have to reveal a lot of details to them including the corporation investment log which may contain investor passwords if they haven't changed them on the system, as well as going through the hassle of setting up multiple API keys. The result of that would be the third party stating that they can confirm that I trade, but nothing more. A third party isn't going to state outright that it's not a scam since you get scammers who trade. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.06.17 19:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
Korgan Medel wrote:Please this is too funny Professor of Economics brand new toon already got ISK doubling in his profile looks decidedly like a tanned shaved headed McMorris declaring that this is indeed a legit venture. Yeah, I'm sure he was trying to be helpful, but it really isn't the best commenter to see pop up on here. All he said though is that the system appears to have a backend though, which you can verify yourself if you really want. There's no minimum limit, so you could post a transaction of 1 isk with a password and see the account system for yourself and verify what he stated. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Hexxx
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2014.06.17 19:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Hexxx wrote:Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Not really many other ways to advertise in EVE, especially when you get attacked non-stop on the forums regardless of your intent. So while I'm trading I chuck out ads. Trust, but verify. Or, if we do it your way, just trust. It isn't that hard to find a reputable and credible third party to do a sanity check on your API. If you are serious in your "intent" this isn't so big of a deal. It wouldn't be, no, but then I'd also need to trust the third party, I'd have to reveal a lot of details to them including the corporation investment log which may contain investor passwords if they haven't changed them on the system, as well as going through the hassle of setting up multiple API keys. The result of that would be the third party stating that they can confirm that I trade, but nothing more. A third party isn't going to state outright that it's not a scam since you get scammers who trade.
If you spent as much time thinking about how to work this instead of how it couldn't work you'd have this solved by now.
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Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.06.17 19:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hexxx wrote:Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Hexxx wrote:Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Not really many other ways to advertise in EVE, especially when you get attacked non-stop on the forums regardless of your intent. So while I'm trading I chuck out ads. Trust, but verify. Or, if we do it your way, just trust. It isn't that hard to find a reputable and credible third party to do a sanity check on your API. If you are serious in your "intent" this isn't so big of a deal. It wouldn't be, no, but then I'd also need to trust the third party, I'd have to reveal a lot of details to them including the corporation investment log which may contain investor passwords if they haven't changed them on the system, as well as going through the hassle of setting up multiple API keys. The result of that would be the third party stating that they can confirm that I trade, but nothing more. A third party isn't going to state outright that it's not a scam since you get scammers who trade. If you spent as much time thinking about how to work this instead of how it couldn't work you'd have this solved by now. I'm not entirely sure I follow. I assume you are saying I should just set up a whole bunch of APIs, hand over my details to a third party, pay them a fat fee for the pleasure and hope that existing investors passwords don't et leaked on the way, and all of that just to prove that I trade, which has zero impact on whether or not I am legit. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.06.17 19:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
Look, I get it, a lot of you suspect absolutely everything, which you are right to do I suppose with the history of these systems. I guess I just opened this thread in the hopes that maybe it would be different and people wouldn't just fly in on the offensive without even looking into it. I'll continue to gather investors in game, since it's pretty clear that the people that frequent the forum are far too cynical to believe that anyone can actually be running a legit business. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Awkward Sanchez
Awkward Honesty Inc.
10
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Posted - 2014.06.17 20:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
you know, its really quite simple. You ask people to give you isk with the promise that you will return it to them + profit. awesome concept. the problem is that you have been nothing but evasive from the start when it comes to matters such as collateral, audits, main verification etc. to make it all worse, you have been called out for being a scammer by a client, but then when Grendell offered to check your API (only one of the most trustworthy people in eve), you declined to let him verify your innocence, countering it with more evasiveness and ultimately indirectly questioning his trustworthiness. claiming that if you give up your API, an auditor would also have access to client passwords... I dont know how you're using your API but I think you're doing it wrong. Anyway, no matter how hard you try holding up your puppy eyed defense, you're a scam until proven otherwise. No reason to be all butt-hurt about it. Awkward Honesty. the only mutually profitable scam in eve. |
Hexxx
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2014.06.17 20:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
Nicholas Chrysus wrote:I 'm not entirely sure I follow. I assume you are saying I should just set up a whole bunch of APIs, hand over my details to a third party, pay them a fat fee for the pleasure and hope that existing investors passwords don't et leaked on the way, and all of that just to prove that I trade, which has zero impact on whether or not I am legit.
Let me make this very simple.
1. Create your APIs. If this takes more then 10 minutes you've got bigger issues. 2. Give them to Grendall or another trusted name. Ask them to check for free - they just might. They will attest to your ability to maintain a certain level of interest on some amount of money. They will not attest to how trustworthy you are. 3. Scammers are often defined by their stubbornness against transparency.
Stop the excuses unless you want to abandon the MD forum as potential investors. |
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Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.06.17 20:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
Awkward Sanchez wrote:you know, its really quite simple. You ask people to give you isk with the promise that you will return it to them + profit. awesome concept. the problem is that you have been nothing but evasive from the start when it comes to matters such as collateral, audits, main verification etc. to make it all worse, you have been called out for being a scammer by a client, but then when Grendell offered to check your API (only one of the most trustworthy people in eve), you declined to let him verify your innocence, countering it with more evasiveness and ultimately indirectly questioning his trustworthiness. claiming that if you give up your API, an auditor would also have access to client passwords... I dont know how you're using your API but I think you're doing it wrong. Anyway, no matter how hard you try holding up your puppy eyed defense, you're a scam until proven otherwise. No reason to be all butt-hurt about it. Actually I've been very direct. There is no collateral and I will not submit myself to an audit or verification of my main at this time. I can't be more direct about that. People refusing to accept that doesn't mean I'm not being direct.
As for Grendell, that would be the equivalent of submitting for an audit, which I've declined. The scammer guy claims he didn't get his withdrawal under a day after the system was released, with a withdrawal turnaround time of 48 hours. It shouldn't take an audit to realise that the guy is talking out of his ass.
As for the API, it's explained on the website, so you have no issue calling me out when you haven't even looked at the site. When people transfer isk, they can supply an initial password with their deposit, which they can then change on the site after they've logged in. This allows the character to be verified to the account on the website without having to use verification codes or client API details, in a single step process.
I'll directly answer questions as long as they don't involve revealing my mains or or API keys. If you want to think it's a scam, fine, don't invest. But don't sit there hassling me because I don't want to pay for the privilege of stringing out my entire business to have it scrutinised only for the end result to be the usual copy-paste response where the third party can't guarantee anything.
At the end of the day though this is going to be a small business. It's not designed for the people who want to put billions on the line and need pages of references to do so. It's a consumer grade project to provide a service that has not existed in a legitimate form before. Looking at this thread I should probably have skipped it, since the response in game has been pretty positive with some investors involved and some interesting discussions about it already. It's not really a surprise that all the forum delivers is people trying to derail the business and attack me Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.06.17 20:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
Hexxx wrote:Nicholas Chrysus wrote:I 'm not entirely sure I follow. I assume you are saying I should just set up a whole bunch of APIs, hand over my details to a third party, pay them a fat fee for the pleasure and hope that existing investors passwords don't et leaked on the way, and all of that just to prove that I trade, which has zero impact on whether or not I am legit. Let me make this very simple. 1. Create your APIs. If this takes more then 10 minutes you've got bigger issues. 2. Give them to Grendall or another trusted name. Ask them to check for free - they just might. They will attest to your ability to maintain a certain level of interest on some amount of money. They will not attest to how trustworthy you are. 3. Scammers are often defined by their stubbornness against transparency. Stop the excuses unless you want to abandon the MD forum as potential investors. No, I'm not jumping through hoops to satisfy you. If you don't like the business, don't invest, it really is that simple. I'm not going into a third page of explaining why I am not going to buckle to the demands of people who have no interest in the business and are just here to heckle me.
And by the way, no, scammers are defined by the fact they scam. There have been many many scammers who are very transparent, and some have even passed the third party checks, so it really means nothing.
I'll say it again so it's completely clear. If you don't like it, don't invest. Simple. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Koniforous
Tauren Transit
107
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Posted - 2014.06.17 20:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Look, I get it, a lot of you suspect absolutely everything, which you are right to do I suppose with the history of these systems. I guess I just opened this thread in the hopes that maybe it would be different and people wouldn't just fly in on the offensive without even looking into it. I'll continue to gather investors in game, since it's pretty clear that the people that frequent the forum are far too cynical to believe that anyone can actually be running a legit business.
I looked into and told you the specific problems I saw. And you still haven't addressed them. My biggest concern is that you're stating you can handle a 4% interest rate, but you are not clarifying how much in deposits your bank will accept. 4% of 100mil is a tiny sum, and most if not all pilots, are capable of paying the 4mil to use that 100mil. But, how far will you go? 4% of 1 trillion is a BIG difference from 100mil. If you plan to adjust the interest rate in relation to the bank's "float," then what's stopping you from taking on infinite deposits and quickly reducing the interest rate to nearly 0.0000%?
For me, and I'm not speaking for everyone else, my primary concerns are in the business model and structures. Because as it sits right now, they are unclear and almost nonexistent. So far, you've really only developed a plan to tax withdrawals at 1mil isk, which is terrible since you claim to be targeting small scale financial pilots. Why not tie the withdrawal tax to a percentage of the withdrawal? This is far more attractive to small scale investors. Aside from that, my secondary concerns are just the same as everyone else: You ARE being evasive. TAUTX Bank: 12.5% of profits paid to investors monthly. More info: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=322582&find=unread |
Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.06.17 20:57:00 -
[54] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:I looked into and told you the specific problems I saw. And you still haven't addressed them. My biggest concern is that you're stating you can handle a 4% interest rate, but you are not clarifying how much in deposits your bank will accept. 4% of 100mil is a tiny sum, and most if not all pilots, are capable of paying the 4mil to use that 100mil. But, how far will you go? 4% of 1 trillion is a BIG difference from 100mil. If you plan to adjust the interest rate in relation to the bank's "float," then what's stopping you from taking on infinite deposits and quickly reducing the interest rate to nearly 0.0000%?
For me, and I'm not speaking for everyone else, my primary concerns are in the business model and structures. Because as it sits right now, they are unclear and almost nonexistent. So far, you've really only developed a plan to tax withdrawals at 1mil isk, which is terrible since you claim to be targeting small scale financial pilots. Why not tie the withdrawal tax to a percentage of the withdrawal? This is far more attractive to small scale investors. Aside from that, my secondary concerns are just the same as everyone else: You ARE being evasive. Well as of yet I don't know what the limit will be, since I don't know how fast the investments can come in. I've got just shy of 2.4b in investments so far, so that's pretty small fry and I'm set up with a float of 16b, which can sustain 4% interest on 60b for 6 months with no additional income. I've already explained that if at any point I felt I couldn't keep up with the interest I'd look to downsize the largest investments, since this is a consumer bank, not really aimed at large investors. My target was to hold balances of a billion or less per character to begin with, though there's no limit until I know what can be traded with ease and how many investors there would be.
The withdrawal charge is not set to a percentage since it's not supposed to be to limit how much people withdraw. It's also not a charge for all withdrawals. Everyone can withdraw twice a month for free, so access to their ISK is there, but I obviously wouldn't be able to handle if people kept posting withdrawal requests and redepositing all the time, so the limit is there to dissuade people from doing that. I figured I'd kick off with a 1m charge, since it's small enough to overlook if you need access to your funds, but high enough to put you off going crazy on withdrawals. The charge drops back into the float by the way.
And I'm not being evasive, I'm simply refusing to do what people keep telling me repeatedly to do. I've made my stance very clear and yet every couple of posts the same thing is being said. If that is a deal breaker to investors, I can accept that. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
304
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Posted - 2014.06.17 22:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Awkward Sanchez wrote:you know, its really quite simple. You ask people to give you isk with the promise that you will return it to them + profit. awesome concept. the problem is that you have been nothing but evasive from the start when it comes to matters such as collateral, audits, main verification etc. to make it all worse, you have been called out for being a scammer by a client, but then when Grendell offered to check your API (only one of the most trustworthy people in eve), you declined to let him verify your innocence, countering it with more evasiveness and ultimately indirectly questioning his trustworthiness. claiming that if you give up your API, an auditor would also have access to client passwords... I dont know how you're using your API but I think you're doing it wrong. Anyway, no matter how hard you try holding up your puppy eyed defense, you're a scam until proven otherwise. No reason to be all butt-hurt about it. Actually I've been very direct. There is no collateral and I will not submit myself to an audit or verification of my main at this time. I can't be more direct about that. People refusing to accept that doesn't mean I'm not being direct.
You are trying to start a business while flatly refusing to make any sort of accommodations for your customers.
It doesn't even matter what you're running, that's just bad policy for attracting business and you can't afford that when you don't have any kind of brand recognition or anything else to make people want to go out of their way to use your service. |
Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
25
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Posted - 2014.06.17 23:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:Nicholas Chrysus wrote:Awkward Sanchez wrote:you know, its really quite simple. You ask people to give you isk with the promise that you will return it to them + profit. awesome concept. the problem is that you have been nothing but evasive from the start when it comes to matters such as collateral, audits, main verification etc. to make it all worse, you have been called out for being a scammer by a client, but then when Grendell offered to check your API (only one of the most trustworthy people in eve), you declined to let him verify your innocence, countering it with more evasiveness and ultimately indirectly questioning his trustworthiness. claiming that if you give up your API, an auditor would also have access to client passwords... I dont know how you're using your API but I think you're doing it wrong. Anyway, no matter how hard you try holding up your puppy eyed defense, you're a scam until proven otherwise. No reason to be all butt-hurt about it. Actually I've been very direct. There is no collateral and I will not submit myself to an audit or verification of my main at this time. I can't be more direct about that. People refusing to accept that doesn't mean I'm not being direct. You are trying to start a business while flatly refusing to make any sort of accommodations for your customers. It doesn't even matter what you're running, that's just bad policy for attracting business and you can't afford that when you don't have any kind of brand recognition or anything else to make people want to go out of their way to use your service. The people asking me to jump through hoops aren't customers or even potential customers. And I'm not asking people to go out of their way to do anything. If they are uncomfortable they can just not invest, and that's fine. I'm not demanding that anyone invest and I'm not complaining when people don't. I'm really not sure why people are getting so worked up that I don't want to get third party verification. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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Koniforous
Tauren Transit
109
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Posted - 2014.06.17 23:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
Nicholas Chrysus wrote:I'm really not sure why people are getting so worked up that I don't want to get third party verification. Welcome to MD. I weathered through the ****, and now that I look back on it, it was completely warranted. You have to think like an MD forum member, and consider your 'bank' is a business asking for a loan. You will be expected to jump through the same hoops as anyone else asking for an uncollateralized loan. TAUTX Bank: 12.5% of profits paid to investors monthly. More info: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=322582&find=unread |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
304
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Posted - 2014.06.17 23:57:00 -
[58] - Quote
If you think offering any form of verification, reference, or security beyond the word of your two-weeks-old forums alt is jumping through hoops then I think you need to recalibrate your expectations. |
Adunh Slavy
1513
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 00:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
Nicholas Chrysus wrote:It's not really a surprise that all the forum delivers is people trying to derail the business and attack me
Ah, so it's everyone else's fault. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Nicholas Chrysus
Chrysus Industries
25
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Posted - 2014.06.18 08:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Nicholas Chrysus wrote:It's not really a surprise that all the forum delivers is people trying to derail the business and attack me Ah, so it's everyone else's fault. What is who's fault? I'm not blaming anyone for anything, I'm just pointing out the clear difference in response between forum dwellers and the in-game community. Chrysus Industries- Savings made simple! The new savings bank for EVE online.
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