Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 157 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3529
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:21:00 -
[1981] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:All the important parts of a gank are done with alts and with no consequences at all. (Equipping, Scouting, Scanning, Bumping). The last and final part is elementary. i don't like this much, either. i don't like eve online's alternate characters at all
of course, i use alt characters as well, for warpins, hauling and anonymous business. and i see absolutely no reason to criticise gankers over any other playstyle for using alternate characters, since almost everyone uses them |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1934
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:21:00 -
[1982] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote: I'm sorry you don't see any consequences - but as one who has done a gank or two in his time, I can assure you the amount of time and ISK that would be required for me to return to the state before I ever ganked anything would be amazing. As in, tens of billions of ISK and many many many hours of effort.
Why would you want to do something stupid like that? You can use alts if you need something, like a shopping trip to Jita for example, and if you want to farm ISK then low/null and w-holes are far superior to highsec in every way.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
640
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:22:00 -
[1983] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Of course they sit in stations, the 100% chance of faction police prevents anything else. Just like every other boring, binary, immersion breaking magic space police mechanic, it just cuts out real player interaction to handhold the crybabies.
The point, by the way, is that you are free to attack them, without any consequences to you I might add, when they are flying from gate to gate, or on their way to a gank, or in the middle of a gank to spoil it.
That is not "zero consequences". That's just consequences that other players fail to visit on them.
This is so well said and I am hitting the like button very hard while throwing cash at the screen.
As usual: CCP gives the players the tools, players refuse to use the tools, then cry for changes to the game to prevent them from having to bother to use the tools in the first place. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7588
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:24:00 -
[1984] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote: As usual: CCP gives the players the tools, players refuse to use the tools, then cry for changes to the game to prevent them from having to bother to use the tools in the first place.
Yep. They don't need more tools, they just need to start using the bevy of tools they already have.
And I would be remiss if I didn't say that someone in an NPC corp calling out gankers for using alts is hilariously hypocritical. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22847
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:25:00 -
[1985] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Why would you want to do something stupid like that? You can use alts if you need something, like a shopping trip to Jita for example, and if you want to farm ISK then low/null and w-holes are far superior to highsec in every way. You realise, of course, that this absolute need to use alts only proves that there are consequences GÇö very meaningful ones GÇö to ganking your way all the way to -10. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
640
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:26:00 -
[1986] - Quote
Sentamon wrote: Why would you want to do something stupid like that? You can use alts if you need something, like a shopping trip to Jita for example, and if you want to farm ISK then low/null and w-holes are far superior to highsec in every way.
Yes, I can just use alts if I need a shopping trip - but this character who has ganked like, so many things is stuck in that role due to the consequences of my actions. The only choice I have if I wanted to go down a different road would involve many many hours and tons of cash making up for my actions. You stated there were no consequences for ganking - and that is totally untrue.
Plus, I have a hoard of angry AFK miners and white-knights who also provide some consequence for my actions. I mean sure, they are mostly AFK miners and "anti-gankers" - which means the chance of them being effective in any way is very small, but once in a great while I meet one who has a basic grasp of game mechanics. It's very rare, but it happens. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12245
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:27:00 -
[1987] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:
Why would you want to do something stupid like that? You can use alts if you need something, like a shopping trip to Jita for example, and if you want to farm ISK then low/null and w-holes are far superior to highsec in every way.
Actually we have figured out how to earn null anom level income from high sec level 3 missions. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3529
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:28:00 -
[1988] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And I would be remiss if I didn't say that someone in an NPC corp calling out gankers for using alts is hilariously hypocritical. it's a grr goons/nullsec/gankers troll alt
turns up in every thread like this vOv |
malcovas Henderson
THoF
191
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:28:00 -
[1989] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Tell us how everyone can attack them while they sit in 100% safe stations while their high security alts do all the important work?
I detest Ganking, but the consequences are there for everyone to see. Just because you are to busy mining your ISK to be bothered to try and stop them, doesn't mean they don't exist.
Hell they are not even hard to find. Want to make a difference? then go after them. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1934
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:30:00 -
[1990] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: of course, i use alt characters as well, for warpins, hauling and anonymous business. and i see absolutely no reason to criticise gankers over any other playstyle for using alternate characters, since almost everyone uses them
I'm not criticizing them, just pointing the fatal flaws in crimewatch and lack of consequences due to alts. As a matter of fact I encourage everyone to keep an alt around and when the ganker fleet undocks to kill they freighter they were bumping for several minutes (with zero consequece), shoot it and summon CONCORD early. D-Scan makes it really easy to see the fleet on the way.
Dumb mechanics deserve another. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3529
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:34:00 -
[1991] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: of course, i use alt characters as well, for warpins, hauling and anonymous business. and i see absolutely no reason to criticise gankers over any other playstyle for using alternate characters, since almost everyone uses them
I'm not criticizing them, just pointing the fatal flaws in crimewatch and lack of consequences due to alts. As a matter of fact I encourage everyone to keep an alt around and when the ganker fleet undocks to kill they freighter they were bumping for several minutes (with zero consequece), shoot it and summon CONCORD early. D-Scan makes it really easy to see the fleet on the way. Dumb mechanics deserve another. that's why i don't like alternate characters generally, they avoid player consequences as well as mechanical
the advice is good but i don't imagine many will accept it |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3529
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:37:00 -
[1992] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:that's why i don't like alternate characters generally, they avoid player consequences as well as mechanical on the other hand, anon alts are a very important part of the metagame that many people love eve online for vOv |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
641
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:42:00 -
[1993] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:I'm not criticizing them, just pointing the fatal flaws in crimewatch and lack of consequences due to alts. As a matter of fact I encourage everyone to keep an alt around and when the ganker fleet undocks to kill they freighter they were bumping for several minutes (with zero consequece), shoot it and summon CONCORD early. D-Scan makes it really easy to see the fleet on the way. Dumb mechanics deserve another.
You've missed the part where all of these alts need to be there BEFORE the gank fleet lands, will be seen by the bumper, and measures will be taken to nullify this as a valid strategy. D-scan works both ways :P
Stop expecting CONCORD to do your work for you. Fit some falcons, some high-dps snipers, get a fleet of your own of players who are actually at the keyboard in the first place - stop some ganks. The simple fact that you expect a herd of alts in rookie ships to be a valid counter to players with superior numbers in superior ships who have bothered to even train a single skill point make me wonder if we are even playing the same game here.
|
Mag's
the united
17639
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:51:00 -
[1994] - Quote
[Jediwave] These aren't the consequences you're looking for. [/Jediwave]
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1935
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:53:00 -
[1995] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote: Stop expecting CONCORD to do your work for you.
Sure, right after CONCORD stops protecting your bumbers and ship scanners. And right after you quit moving CONCORD to give yourself more gank time. Deal? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12246
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 06:54:00 -
[1996] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:DJentropy Ovaert wrote: Stop expecting CONCORD to do your work for you.
Sure, right after CONCORD stops protecting your bumbers and ship scanners. And right after you quit moving CONCORD to give yourself more gank time. Deal?
So remove concord. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
644
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 07:34:00 -
[1997] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Sure, right after CONCORD stops protecting your bumbers and ship scanners. And right after you quit moving CONCORD to give yourself more gank time. Deal? Since you're acting all pro-pvp you'll support suspect flags on people scanning ships and people bumping at high speeds.
CONCORD is not "protecting" "bumbers" (lol) any more then they "protect" anyone else in this strange and wonderful universe - you go GCC, you get CONCORDED. They don't discriminate between bumper, freighter, random carebear, or chief fedo wrangler of Dodixie. The playing field is level.
I'm quite pro-pvp, but suspect flags on ship scanning is just insane. A ship scan causes ZERO active harm to the player who was scanned. As someone else pointed out earlier, it's like glancing in someone's grocery basket who happens to be shopping in the same store as you. As for bumping resulting in suspect flags - I have one answer for that.
"Jita 4-4 undock"
So now everyone is suspect and everything explodes.
:P
|
Altessa Post
Midnight special super sexy
140
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 10:02:00 -
[1998] - Quote
GM Lelouch wrote:
I'll keep this brief but yes, we do investigate alt character recycling and we do take offenses of this nature very seriously.
What we cannot do is manually monitor every PVP ship loss which occurs in EVE so we need you, our players, to file a report and let us know if you suspect foul play of this sort. Alt recycling is not very common these days but it still does happen from time to time. Please do file a ticket including all the information you have concerning this loss, we'd be happy to look into it for you.
Alt recycling is verifiable in our logs and it will have consequences for the player's main account(s) too, if disposable accounts are used for this purpose.
One final clarification: Alt recycling is defined as the act of using a disposable character/account to perform actions which carry negative consequences within the game and then recycling (biomassing) the character to bypass said consequences and starting all over again with a new character.
1. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then farming up security status once it drops too low? This is totally okay with us. 2. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then deleting the character and replacing it with a new one once security status drops too low? This is not okay.
Hmm, I guess this post didn't end up being as brief as I intended but I hope you all found this post informative.
Thank you very much for the clarification. Also thanks to Lady Areola for the "confession".
I like the idea that the game allows ganking. However, there must be consequences and there must be a way to counteract. Being able to report suspicious characters for a recycle check is one possible tool. Once gankers travel with enough negative security status we can counter them before the gank
On the internet, you can be whatever you want to be. It is amazing that so many people chose to be stupid. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
983
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 10:09:00 -
[1999] - Quote
Altessa Post wrote:Once gankers travel with enough negative security status we can counter them before the gank Exactly!
But if be 'we' you mean 'all half-awake anti-gankers', Leadership I will be enough to fleet them all. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19497
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 10:19:00 -
[2000] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Altessa Post wrote:Once gankers travel with enough negative security status we can counter them before the gank Exactly! But if be 'we' you mean 'all half-awake anti-gankers', Leadership I will be enough to fleet them all. 1 person is a fleet these days?
Nil mortifi sine lucre |
|
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1378
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 10:21:00 -
[2001] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Altessa Post wrote:Once gankers travel with enough negative security status we can counter them before the gank Exactly! But if be 'we' you mean 'all half-awake anti-gankers', Leadership I will be enough to fleet them all. 1 person is a fleet these days?
It is if you're an opponent of the Code. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Heinrich Erquilenne
Foundation Cutting-Edge
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 11:35:00 -
[2002] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:baltec1 wrote:Sentamon wrote:baltec1 wrote: And?
We have tens of thousands of alts for supplying nullsec to avoid wardecs too.
... and we need to quit talking like there are meaningful consequences for ganking in highsec. There are none. Aside from the fact that at -10 you are open to attack from everyone, gate and station guns open fire on you and cannot stay in any place longer then 30 seconds or have the faction navy warp in and kill you. Tell us how everyone can attack them while they sit in 100% safe stations while their high security alts do all the important work?
Then maybe the solution would be high sec stations not accepting to dock players with a dreadfully low sec status. Like players who get their overly expensive ships killed have to farm isk to get them back, people who have a -10 sec status should definitely spend some time to grind sec status. Seems fair (which is why this option will likely be unpopular). |
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER CODE.
624
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 11:40:00 -
[2003] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: One: If you are -5 or less, and; Have a criminal flag, and; lay the final blow on a ship, then; The insurance payout for that ship comes from your wallet.
Two: If you are -5 or less, and; have a negative wallet, then; You may not board, activate, or undock any ship bigger than a shuttle. Reason: All larger ships have a crew, and no crew will work for a criminal who has no money.
So basically you screw everyone in low, null and wormsec who have a negative sec status too, just because you want to AFK in highsec? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22851
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 11:44:00 -
[2004] - Quote
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:Then maybe the solution would be high sec stations not accepting to dock players with a dreadfully low sec status. Solution to what? And no, it's not NPCs job to restrict what players have access to.
Quote:Like players who get their overly expensive ships killed have to farm isk to get them back, people who have a -10 sec status should definitely spend some time to grind sec status. Seems fair (which is why this option will likely be unpopular). No, it will be unpopular because it's not fair. Fair would be if those with overly expensive ships had to lose those ships before being allowed to dock up.
If you want to force people to grind back their sec status, then you have to force them. There is absolutely no reason why the game should do it for you.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
986
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 12:24:00 -
[2005] - Quote
Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:Then maybe the solution would be high sec stations not accepting to dock players with a dreadfully low sec status. Like players who get their overly expensive ships killed have to farm isk to get them back, people who have a -10 sec status should definitely spend some time to grind sec status. Seems fair (which is why this option will likely be unpopular). I personally see some potential from doing that, while eliminating FacPo.
The idea of neg sec status players being free to fly around highsec but having to operate out of POS and such sounds fun. Pirate hideouts, assets to shoot at, ...
CONCORD response times may be tweaked accordingly, if ganking becomes on average harder or easier. |
Li Quiao
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 13:17:00 -
[2006] - Quote
Altessa Post wrote:
I like the idea that the game allows ganking. However, there must be consequences and there must be a way to counteract
Well, since there *are* consequences and there *are* ways to counteract, you must be happy, then. Problem solved! |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
503
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 13:17:00 -
[2007] - Quote
Altessa Post wrote:The proposal to "report them" is silly. I do not have the data to prove a violation. In fact, it is impossible for me to prove a recycle. So, next time please try to suppress the Pavlovian urge of your culture ("You should sue them!").
I also do not like the speculation about what is illegal and how CCP goes against them. That is just guesswork. Until today, I did believe that alt recycling is not a common practice. Yet, after my observation in Niarja I have my doubt.
Can somebody from CCP comment whether you actually do investigate into alt recycling? Yes you do, you just have to do a tiny amount of work. Check if the char that ganked you is in doomheim in a month. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7593
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 13:28:00 -
[2008] - Quote
Altessa Post wrote: Being able to report suspicious characters for a recycle check is one possible tool. ]
It should be pointed out that reporting every neg sec status person you see is a really easy way to get banned for malicious reporting and abuse of the petition system.
Aside from that, have fun. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3529
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 15:11:00 -
[2009] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Altessa Post wrote: Being able to report suspicious characters for a recycle check is one possible tool. ] It should be pointed out that reporting every neg sec status person you see is a really easy way to get banned for malicious reporting and abuse of the petition system. Aside from that, have fun. uh, a person recycling characters to avoid negative security status would not be using a negative security status character for anyone to see and report |
Organic Lager
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
63
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 16:02:00 -
[2010] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: All of which is very predictable, and extremely well documented. In a well fitted ship missions are trivial and require so little effort that people have written software that do them automatically*
If we're talking people that run missions in undersized ships for the challenge then yes they have more to worry about, your standard run of the mill missioner doesn't do that, they simply follow the "script"
Sooo because a bot can do a mission that somehow means there is no risk or preparation required on the mission runners end? How does what you've said negate any of what i stated about the work involved in running an L4?
Quote:Yes, because missioners, myself included, are fed everything they need to know on a silver platter, gankers have to use their initiative, get their own intel and organise themselves.
Sooo because I don't have to scan my mission down that somehow means a ganker puts in more effort? Please see above for other **** an L4 runner has to worry about aside from simply scanning down a ship risk free.
Quote:Try being an FC, try organising a gank fleet etc
Yeah I bet it is hard to find guys to form a gank fleet with. The pay is low and it's boring waiting to find something to kill, but due to the lack of risk, isk/sp investment and effort that's the way it should be. I mean just how easy should it be to gank? how profitable? where it sits now seems pretty inline with the rest of high sec, more then mining, less then missioning, way less then incursions.
If you want to add something like locking pirates out of stations so they have to set up a pos to operate, I could see making concord tankable or increasing response times, something that would allow for more profitable ganks and in exchange more risk with having to defend a pos... not that it's really hard but at least it's something.
Quote:Planning, something the gankee often fails to do. If you're caught unprepared, it means you didn't plan well enough or use the tools at your disposal correctly. Last time someone tried to bait me into shooting at them in a mission space, I purposefully popped a trigger and dropped an Elite Frigate and Cruiser spawn on them, then warped out to let them deal with it.
Once again the effort to avoid a gank is all on the gankee, fit better tank, watch local, watch descan, avoid systems. What effort is put in by the gankers to make a more successful gank? what risks? sit on station and scan ships coming and going, freely calculate your odds of success, suicide ganking is almost as binary as the concord.
Quote:Stupidity is infinite, as evidenced by the amount of people that fly into well known choke points blind. It doesn't get punished nearly enough, there's still a lot of it about.
*People who do this need to be terminated, in game, with extreme prejudice; then banned.
110% agree with you here, but I don't think we can say ganking is too hard or should be made more profitable until gankers are forced to put in more effort then having one guy risk free look for a target while the rest ship spin in station.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 157 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |