Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Anthar Thebess
525
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 10:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Idea is very simple , create ravage mining modules. They allow fast extraction of minerals, at very high amount rates .... but at very , very large waste rate. Because sov mining upgrades are spawning new mining anomalies each time one is depleted i suggest to create only those modules :
- Ravage Ice Harvester I - 10 blocks extraction per cycle , 70% waist ( 3 lands in cargo hold, 7 is destroyed) - Ravage Ice Harvester II - 20 blocks extraction per cycle , 75% waist ( 5 lands in cargo , 15 are destroyed)
( i will not give you numbers , as i don't mine , but to keep similarity to the Ravage Ice Harvester modules) - Ravage Mining Laser I - 70% waist , can use crystals - Ravange Mining Laser II - 75% waist , can use crystals
(very questionable because of current SOV mining capabilities, so i suggest don't create one ) - Ravage Strip Miner I - 70% waist - Ravage Strip Miner II - 75% waist
All those lasers will have very visible , and different from current graphics , so people using those modules can be easily tracked by others.
Now why? To create more content , yes you can say i abuse this sentence , but think about this.
We are talking about driving a conflict , because person using this kind of modules , will at the same time deny other people minerals to mine. Lets just talk about ice. Using Ravage Ice Harvesters you are capable only to extract 25-30% of minerals stored in belt - rest of them will be lost.
Think about all those ninja ops people will start to do in lowsec, or nullsec , as they can extract very fast big amounts of minerals. "Just few cycles, and my cargo hold will be full"
We have a covert ops mining frigate - perfect for using Ravange Mining Laser II ... Think about all those angry miners when they spot 1-2 people not using normal miners but ravage ones ... The only goal of this module is to create new potential conflict.
If you like this idea please support it , as miners wanting to kill other miners is what this game needs Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
126
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 11:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well, the exact same can be achieved by cutting ice size by 70% (including in the ice miner itself) and reducing belt yield equally by 70%.
No need for a new module at all, and see how that turns out. Good luck fueling anything. And also rmemmber, fuel costs are gonna increase with the next patch. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Anthar Thebess
528
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 11:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:Well, the exact same can be achieved by cutting ice size by 70% (including in the ice miner itself) and reducing belt yield equally by 70%.
No need for a new module at all, and see how that turns out. Good luck fueling anything. And also rmemmber, fuel costs are gonna increase with the next patch.
And EVE is a very, very competetive game and player usually play by the rule of 'me first' and 'if i can't get it...', so the module would be a 'must have' and would neither leave much 'choice' nor give 'more content' - you would simply replace the old and now useless or redundant content.
I might be premature in this, but ...
-1
.. for the moment
Not exactly. People can extract whole using normal miners , or only 30% (much faster).
Do you think that a 10 man mining fleet will be angry on 2 other miners using ravage versions? Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Vesan Terakol
Sad Face Enterprises
72
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 11:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
You know what? This sounds pretty fun.
There are those situations, where you know that you can't get to all the goods, so you might as well grab as many as you can.
The waste percentage should be high enough to make what is otherwise an easily sustainable operation into a resource smash and grab that depletes all available resources withing couple of hours (ore) or minutes (ice). Yay for miner wars!
Certain restrictions should be in place, tho, for such modules. For one, they should be all t2 with requirements, similar to Deep Core Miners to prevent mass spawn of alts that ravage all the roids for the fun of it.
And, this will be a weird one, they should be disallowed by NPC corps, just as bubbles and bombs are not allowed in empire space, as a miner in a procurer in an NPC corp requires way too much resources to remove from your area of operation. I mean, imagine you want to deprive an area of resources, so your competition is forced to go elsewhere - you get a few buddies, drop to an NPC corp and the only potential counter play is for the opposing side is to log in between DT and you and get as much as possible.
In short - Loss of sustainability - good! Driver of conflict - good! Limits - mandatory. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4259327 - more suff in the Zero.Zero collection |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
126
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 12:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote: Not exactly. People can extract whole using normal miners , or only 30% (much faster).
Do you think that a 10 man mining fleet will be angry on 2 other miners using ravage versions?
Well, firstly you get with your mentioned stats +200% yield while destroying stuff you wouldn't get either due to competition, there is 0 less + 200% gain by using yours. Using old ones would be plain stupid. You have not mentioned increased cycle times, which would defeat the purpose I guess
And yes, any singel or group miner would be pissed, everyone is out for each others ore. And I would even say its the otehr way around usually the singel or dual miner would be pissed for the 10 man fleet to use such modules and then just continue to the next belt, which they usually do all day. Not to mention, that big fleets, usually multiboxer will be able for max profit to use the t2 versions much more inn numbers and more efficient then single mienrs who also do train otehr things maybe.
If you try a new idea, first try to break it, exploit it before support waht sounds just nice and fun at first glance. This goes for most posters too. have your doubts, voice them, then when you managed to overcome them, post.
If you are still interested in such a module, it should look like this:
T1 Ravage Ice Harvester Req: Ice Harvesting level 4 Activation cost: 20 GJ Activation duration: 1200 seconds Activation range: 6km Yield: 5 cubes Waste: 5 cubes (guess)
This way you risk long cycle time and zero yield at the end of a roids life, for the 25% gain in yield man destruction of 100% extra Ice. It binds you closer (range) and longer on the spot (cycle time) which balances out the potential profit and destruction of potential profit for others, making your Ice even more valuable. Do not forget the impact on the market for cutting resources. Higher cap use might also force you to off cycle the harvester.
This how it is done and should be presented.
Cheers Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Anthar Thebess
528
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 12:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
As for requirements , i think for t1 modules should be the same as current miners, so that any one can use them, especially new players.
As for increased duration - no, the whole point of this module is to extract as much in as short time as it is possible burning at the same time tons of minerals.
Thats why discourage normal strip miner in this version, as in SOV this will have no sense.
Now think how much you can get with full boosts ?
Imagine what ravage strip miner could do in null sec if no mining upgrades where existing. Miners could easily consume whole belts , high amount of isk /h ? Yes , just for them , and no isk for people doing belts or other miners.
Conflict. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
127
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 12:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:As for requirements , i think for t1 modules should be the same as current miners, so that any one can use them, especially new players.
As for increased duration - no, the whole point of this module is to extract as much in as short time as it is possible burning at the same time tons of minerals.
Thats why discourage normal strip miner in this version, as in SOV this will have no sense.
Now think how much you can get with full boosts ?
Imagine what ravage strip miner could do in null sec if no mining upgrades where existing. Miners could easily consume whole belts , high amount of isk /h ? Yes , just for them , and no isk for people doing belts or other miners.
Conflict.
Sure I see conflict, conflict of itnerest mostly.
But shortening the duration of having to be in a belt and delivering loot to a safe heaven is a huge buff to mining alone, then you get the destruction of part of the possible gains for others. And even if the depleted belt respawns rather quickly, who cares about waste, you have triple yield and an ulimited supply... and I am not even countign the possible ISK value impact on the open market.
This is so badly unbalanced I should give it a -10.
I tried to help, if you are stuck with your concept and can't see beyond you personal small grasb of what that feature might bring, then sorry, but I am not here to stay.
Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
231
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 12:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
I get the concept, but every morning for a few months I'd see a guy in an Obelisk with a group of about 10 alts in Skiffs "ravage" three or four ice belts in a matter of a couple hour without even a peep of protest or complaint from other players on local.
I get the feeling that the consequences you are seeking would never happen with your idea no matter how fun it sounds. Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues. |
Anthar Thebess
528
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 13:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Sure I see conflict, conflict of itnerest mostly.
But shortening the duration of having to be in a belt and delivering loot to a safe heaven is a huge buff to mining alone, then you get the destruction of part of the possible gains for others. And even if the depleted belt respawns rather quickly, who cares about waste, you have triple yield and an ulimited supply... and I am not even countign the possible ISK value impact on the open market.
This is so badly unbalanced I should give it a -10.
I tried to help, if you are stuck with your concept and can't see beyond you personal small grasb of what that feature might bring, then sorry, but I am not here to stay.
Ice is not infinite any more, and if you didn't notice - i don't want strip miner in this versions, while large ore sites spawn each after another in SOV. Normal belts don't spawn so quickly , and remember that if you want move large amount of mining equipment - this is a bit slow in higsec , and difficult in nullsec.
Like i told you , i don't mine - so i cannot tell exact numbers.
Main idea is to crate new place for conflict , new opportunities , and more targets that you can hunt.
How people can fight others using this modules in high ... my first two thoughts : - wars - bumping
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
573
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 13:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
This would be hugely imbalanced and easy to abuse I think. It would also utterly screw up ice product and fuel block prices. They only just rebalanced barges so it would need leaving a good 6 months before any more changed to them are considered. |
|
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2233
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 14:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: And also rmemmber, fuel costs are gonna increase with the next patch. I don't mean to derail, but how will the vast majority of highsec POSes becoming utterly obsolete result in higher fuel prices?
|
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
131
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 14:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: And also rmemmber, fuel costs are gonna increase with the next patch. I don't mean to derail, but how will the vast majority of highsec POSes becoming utterly obsolete result in higher fuel prices?
Nothing to derail still, on par with the changes.
I was more thinking in line of increased fuel costs for jumping. But yeah, didn't even consider more POSes in High sec due to the need for standing grininding and multiplication of POSes. And High sec can't cover theri fuel costs as it is.
But yeah, let's not bump this further. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Anthar Thebess
529
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 15:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: And also rmemmber, fuel costs are gonna increase with the next patch. I don't mean to derail, but how will the vast majority of highsec POSes becoming utterly obsolete result in higher fuel prices? Nothing to derail still, on par with the changes. I was more thinking in line of increased fuel costs for jumping. But yeah, didn't even consider more POSes in High sec due to the need for standing grininding and multiplication of POSes. And High sec can't cover theri fuel costs as it is. But yeah, let's not bump this further. Don't worry , i will keep it up.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Colonel Mortis
Coven Of Witches
2
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 12:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 Support Miners Wars! |
Anthar Thebess
532
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 13:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Still removing the SOV upgrades - could make ravage strip miners interesting idea Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Xapitan Bomba
Blackwater Company C0VEN
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 08:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
B-but s-s-senpai, this would require people to actually not stay afk/docked while small groups roam to obliterate minerals/ice on their sov/systems
Oh wait, that's awesome! +1 |
Anthar Thebess
536
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 13:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thx. Eve miners are waiting for this to happen! Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Colonel Mortis
Coven Of Witches
2
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 11:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mining Wars ... must see them. |
Anthar Thebess
541
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 13:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
More support required! Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
25
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 16:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
This idea will always have issues with sov mining because of its infinite ore. Because of this, no combination of laser and ship can exceed a barge/exhumer. And since those ships are so easy to get into, nobody would use your laser. |
|
Jacid
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
54
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 17:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Its not a bad idea. The issue might be that their is no real scarcity of minerals in k-space.. now ice is another ball game completely. What i do like about the idea is being able to destroy resources relatively quickly
To feed off that.. why not just make asteroids destroyable by weapons. And have shooting an asteroid create a suspect timer so that miners can react to griefers depleteing their resources.
For that matter why not make NPC structures and Items generate a suspect timer instead of concording.. It really would make for more of an imergent game play. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
158
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 17:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jacid wrote:Its not a bad idea. The issue might be that their is no real scarcity of minerals in k-space.. now ice is another ball game completely. What i do like about the idea is being able to destroy resources relatively quickly
To feed off that.. why not just make asteroids destroyable by weapons. And have shooting an asteroid create a suspect timer so that miners can react to griefers depleteing their resources.
For that matter why not make NPC structures and Items generate a suspect timer instead of concording.. It really would make for more of an imergent game play.
I thought I was done with this redundant thread, but now, someone has to be even better at posting cr...
Destroyable asteroids will kill all high sec mining, where being a suspect is all griefers are all day anyway and would do exactly that, since its easier to kill asteroids then miners. Now they just ge free grief invitations instead of suicide ganks. And you don't need suspect timers in low 0.0 or WHs. Not to mention that griefers in general and big blocks due to politics will destroy all belts right after DT and nothing to mine for 23,5 hours. WOW, come on, really ???
And you already can get a suspect timer anytime you want, not sure why you want to by shooting nps crap and go all "Wooh, stranger danger !, have it give a suspect timer, how punishing. Not to mention, that tis woudl allow smartbombs at around 99% of the places where you couldn't use them for that exact reason.
Joker Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Anthar Thebess
541
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 21:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
More support! Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Marsan
230
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 21:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
I think that these should give you a suspect flag in HS. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
249
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 23:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nah, make ancillery mining lazors!!!!
Duration: 1 minute Mining yield: 2000m-¦ per laser
Note:
Ancillery mining lazor can only be fit to mining and exploration frigates, barges and exhumers
Cooldown timer: 40 seconds (pun very much intended)
And miners don't pvp... signature |
Anthar Thebess
541
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 06:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
The whole point of this idea is to mine much more , but at high waste rate. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
162
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 08:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Since none seem to be able to read and comprehend from that, maybe a picture will help!
This was only one blob of two not even 10 minutes after the spawn. Can you explain to me again how this furthers any conflict and does not affect the market or ice product consumption ? You basically have to be dumb not to see or to ignore the consequences. Or wear single/simple minded pewpew 'if it burns it's good' blinders.
This whole thread is redundant and miners already want to kill miners, the problem is, they can't in high sec (where this would destroy Ice Harvesting) and in the other places they already can, which destroys your whole basis and reason for your suggestion. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Anthar Thebess
542
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 09:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:Since none seem to be able to read and comprehend from that, maybe a picture will help!This was only one blob of two not even 10 minutes after the spawn. Can you explain to me again how this furthers any conflict and does not affect the market or ice product consumption ? You basically have to be dumb not to see or to ignore the consequences. Or wear single/simple minded pewpew 'if it burns it's good' blinders. This whole thread is redundant and miners already want to kill miners, the problem is, they can't in high sec (where this would destroy Ice Harvesting) and in the other places they already can, which destroys your whole basis and reason for your suggestion.
They can: - wars - suicide attacks - bumping etc.
This idea is to put more pressure to actually people move. If this is about ice mining : - most of the lowsec belts no one mines - most of the nullsec belts are also left.
This idea is also to promote fast operations. Think about this: - you put few small towers in a lowsec systems having ice belts. - using those ravage ice harvesters you extract fast ice , packup your ronqual, jump to next system, and ravage next ice field. ( you move your mining alts/friends using ceptors / stabbed frigates )
You can also mine normal belts , in lowsec/ nullsec there is plenty them ... and using new covert ops mining frigates you will still earn more than mining a higsec belts.
Remember that compression will be easy after the patch.
There is plenty ore to mine everywhere , miners will just have to move more than station -> system belt.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
581
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 10:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Surely with this idea the mining bots would just become even more rapid ore locust swarms? |
Anthar Thebess
542
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 11:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lugues Slive wrote:This idea will always have issues with sov mining because of its infinite ore. Because of this, no combination of laser and ship can exceed a barge/exhumer. And since those ships are so easy to get into, nobody would use your laser.
Check first post. Because of this , i don't want ravage strip miners. Unless CCP will change the SOV upgrades spawning of ore sites. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |