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Spacehulk
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:20:00 -
[1]
I don't think it could be any clearer than asking ECM users to drop their pants and b#$d o&%r ...
Its not worth investing in ECM skills, train Caldari ships for their roles or even fly them other than for hunting.
I just got my Raven to over 70 Gravimetric with skills you could train in 40 mins so why is it worth training for gains of 25% in ECM or even worth training Recon to max for Caldari Recons ?
I used to be able to get my Scorp to over 30 Gravimetric prior to the current changes and with these changes its higher yet but why would I install more mods to get it higher than 40 now ?
I'm peeved and .... Ughhhh ... Cann't think straight .. too annoyed with the changes that put months of training to being useless. Time to invest a few months in another Ewar skill and a race's ship ...
Freedom Technologies
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Kunming
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:26:00 -
[2]
Threads like this will only get you flamed... I got around 2 months training in ECM skills which will be useless with ECM nerfage, but thats a comprimise I'm more than willing to make for the price of balance.
Balance = Fun, challanging Overpowered crap = Not Fun, Boring
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Spacehulk
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:28:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Spacehulk on 21/06/2006 03:31:11 U did mention balance ... I'd agree if it was balanced.
Balance is when you use 6 mods to jam your oponent uses 6 mods to resist.
Balance is when you train an equivalent amount of time to be able to resist as it would take to jam effectively.
Balance is giving you tanking power instead of a paper thin ship than can be recycled to make crap loads of paperweights.
Freedom Technologies
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Ab Initio
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:34:00 -
[4]
Out of interest, can you detail what you did to get it that high? Interested in seeing just what was involved in getting it to that level. Ie. Were you using half your slots to accomplish that, one or two?
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Spacehulk
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:37:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Spacehulk on 21/06/2006 03:37:20 It wasn't tough. Try it and see ....
Freedom Technologies
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Loui Destructo
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Spacehulk Edited by: Spacehulk on 21/06/2006 03:37:20 It wasn't tough. Try it and see ....
Very useful and constructive ^^
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Ab Initio
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ab Initio on 21/06/2006 03:41:38
Originally by: Spacehulk It wasn't tough. Try it and see ....
If you're going to start a rant thread, I would suggest being a little more helpful to those of us who are genuinly after information on the issue.
You had little credibility after the first post, and 0 credibility after your second effort.
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:49:00 -
[8]
Raven with 3x unnamed midslot ECCM = 74.25 sensor strength.
It's fairly pointless though, even mass ECCM of that sort doesn't counter a dedicated ECM ship reliably. Ie 18% chance per jammer to be jammed by a rook, on a tankless raven :p
This thread is officially the biggest waste of time and anyones retinas. And competition for that honor is fierce :/
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Ab Initio
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:54:00 -
[9]
Thats about what I expected, half the mid-slots fitted with ECCM to acheive that.
Before the patch went up, I had a friend test his jamming on my Thanatos. He had it jammed up for over a minute. Going by that, your chances of jamming a Raven with that sensor strength should be good. Considering he's given up so many slots, just to avoid being jammed, he should be easy to kill as well!
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Spacehulk
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Posted - 2006.06.21 04:07:00 -
[10]
U don't need to use half the mid slots .. And it was easy to achieve out of the junk I had in my hold.
Posting it would just make it easier for those who wouldn't experiment on what has already been nerfed.
Lack of credibility means what I posted wasn't correct but if anyone wants proof I'll show you a pick of my ship's stats.
Freedom Technologies
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Ab Initio
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Posted - 2006.06.21 04:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Spacehulk U don't need to use half the mid slots .. And it was easy to achieve out of the junk I had in my hold.
Posting it would just make it easier for those who wouldn't experiment on what has already been nerfed.
Lack of credibility means what I posted wasn't correct but if anyone wants proof I'll show you a pick of my ship's stats.
I still dont see a problem. Like I said in my last post, I had an ECM user jam my Thanatos for over a minute straight. The user was NOT a specialised ECM pilot.
Seems that the defence to ECM is finally catching up with the ECM itself.
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.06.21 04:30:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Testicular Testes on 21/06/2006 04:34:09 Yeah, ECCM were moved to 80% for unnamed t1, 92% for named T2. 2x with the max named ECCMs will get you 81 sensor strength on a raven, or about 72 with 3x lowslot ECCM. Small oversight.
It's still highly unviable for all except a few already dominant ships that can spare the slots more or less. Doesn't change anything about shortrange ECM being broken, considering any shortrange jams are plenty to get screwed over by. ECCM still competes with damage mods/warpcorestabs in the lows and ECM in the mids, both which tend to do a better job.
Also, the OP better be someones gimmick account trolling. Just in case you're not : Recycle yourself buddy. You shouldn't need an online game to discover the wonders of multiplication. Try first grade or something.
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Spacehulk
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Posted - 2006.06.21 05:02:00 -
[13]
Maybe I have jumped the gun and maybe not ... In a few days of this being out it'll be more aparent.
Freedom Technologies
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.06.21 05:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Spacehulk U did mention balance ... I'd agree if it was balanced.
Balance is when you use 6 mods to jam your oponent uses 6 mods to resist.
Balance is when more then one race gets tech 1 ships with more then 5 medslots?
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2006.06.21 06:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Spacehulk Edited by: Spacehulk on 21/06/2006 03:31:11 U did mention balance ... I'd agree if it was balanced.
Balance is when you use 6 mods to jam your oponent uses 6 mods to resist.
Totally, utterly wrong. That would only be right if the defending player had enough slots to put 6 ECCM, 6 tracking comps, 6 sensor boosters and still a normal tank.
If you can't see why any given anti-EW mod need to be stronger that the corresponding EW mod, I won't argue myself blue in the face to convince you.
------------------------------------------ Don't make War, War is messy. Make love instead, so your kids will do the War part for you. |
Mirasta
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Posted - 2006.06.21 08:31:00 -
[16]
Heh let people ram there ships full of ECCM...means they dont have any offisive boosting capability where they would once have done and if your not taking ECM they have just wasetd all slots.
This is a great change for ballence. Great job.
And before the OP gets 4rsey, im an Ewar pilot
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2006.06.21 08:46:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Spacehulk I don't think it could be any clearer than asking ECM users to drop their pants and b#$d o&%r ...
Its not worth investing in ECM skills, train Caldari ships for their roles or even fly them other than for hunting.
I just got my Raven to over 70 Gravimetric with skills you could train in 40 mins so why is it worth training for gains of 25% in ECM or even worth training Recon to max for Caldari Recons ?
I used to be able to get my Scorp to over 30 Gravimetric prior to the current changes and with these changes its higher yet but why would I install more mods to get it higher than 40 now ?
I'm peeved and .... Ughhhh ... Cann't think straight .. too annoyed with the changes that put months of training to being useless. Time to invest a few months in another Ewar skill and a race's ship ...
I sentence you to read ship-setups and fit something else then gravimetric backup arrays on your raven dude with your raven setup I'd tank you with a civilian shield booster
But seriously, die
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.21 10:22:00 -
[18]
Wait, is this an ECM is underpowered thread?
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PriceCheckMax
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Posted - 2006.06.21 10:47:00 -
[19]
Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 21/06/2006 10:52:07 OK, for how long have been the Amarr/Minmatar/Gallente races ships been USEFUL?
Celectis - not even close to BB, even with the current changes.
Arbitrator - HAHHA, everyone uses ECM on it
Bellicose - HAHAHROFLBARBAQUEEERHAHAHAOLOLOLO
The T2 recons with their second bonuses are somewhat better, but not even close to ROOK/Falcon
What is primary in gang BS vs gang BS? Scorpions, yeah
Who is going to put a backup array instead of another WCS/plate/dmg mod? Yarrr, everyone I think
Who is going to lose his sensor booster/web/scramble/EW mod to use a eccm module instead? Yarr, again EVERYONE!!!
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Darwinia
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Posted - 2006.06.21 11:52:00 -
[20]
CCP changed ECCM by +60% to the bonus.
They could have done +200% and it probably still wouldn't be overpowered.
ECCM needs some serious surgery, not a bandaid. ------------------------ I don't believe in sigs. |
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Zenst
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Posted - 2006.06.21 12:28:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Zenst on 21/06/2006 12:33:44 DUPE - god dam laggy webserver/internet :(
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Zenst
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Posted - 2006.06.21 12:28:00 -
[22]
Well given the way ECM works and what they did to ECCM and changes they did to the EOS Information warfare modules.
I'd concure ECM is rolyaly shafted now if the peep fits ECCM.
Basicly ECCM became the I-WIN no jam me button.
Lame changes to ECCM, very lame indeed.
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Zenst
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Posted - 2006.06.21 12:29:00 -
[23]
Well given the way ECM works and what they did to ECCM and changes they did to the EOS Information warfare modules.
I'd concure ECM is rolyaly shafted now if the peep fits ECCM.
Basicly ECCM became the I-WIN no jam me button.
Lame changes to ECCM, very lame indeed.
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Spacehulk
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Posted - 2006.06.21 13:24:00 -
[24]
Stick 2 named low slot and 1 mid slot and check your resistance. Didn't affect my shield tanker's setup drasticaly and gave me over 70 resistance ...
Can we have ECM enhancing low slot modules now
Freedom Technologies
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Zenst
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Posted - 2006.06.21 13:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Spacehulk Stick 2 named low slot and 1 mid slot and check your resistance. Didn't affect my shield tanker's setup drasticaly and gave me over 70 resistance ...
Can we have ECM enhancing low slot modules now
YES ECM damage mods would sort this and some hardwiring implants as well please.
ECM dmg mods been due since they changed ECCM first round. Oh well guess could fit some mnining lasers sit in empire and complain in local :o)
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III LightBringer
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Posted - 2006.06.21 13:38:00 -
[26]
You can put on 3 ECCM, and get 80 grav strength. (You'r toast when someone lay on you 3 sensordampners)
You can put on 3 Sensorboosters on you snipership (You are toast when someone jams you, or land on top of you with tracking disruptors)
You can put on 6 sensor dampners, 2 sensorboosters on your scorp and BOOM die like an ibis, because 3 ships landed 5 km from you and you couldn't dampen them.
You can put on plates, hardners and cap-rechargers, and WCS's, and simply warp off when someone puts a gun on you. Counterable by a cloaked sneaky dictor and a T2-pulse geddon.
EWar is good. It is actually a masterpiece in this game. Go in on monday, attack with a strong EW fleet and win over a gank-fleet. Go back on tuesday with a gank-fleet and win because they are propped with anti-EW Go back on wedensday , and be ganked yourself because someone put 60 fighters on your ass.
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Trac3rt
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Posted - 2006.06.21 14:58:00 -
[27]
On an unrelated note, has Projected ECCM been boosted as well? It used to give a +100-120% (T1-T2) sensor strength boost, which has now been caught up to by the ECCM modules in this patch. At work now so cannot check anything in-game.
I have been playing with the idea of fitting out a remote ECCM or remote Sensor Boosting frigate to sit with the BS in a fleet as a support ship. If a BS is being jammed, you throw 2xRemote ECCM onto it and it doesn't get jammed again. Could also work really well on a Logistics ship with a sniping BS fleet.
___
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Laboratus
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Posted - 2006.06.21 15:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: III LightBringer
EWar is good. It is actually a masterpiece in this game. Go in on monday, attack with a strong EW fleet and win over a gank-fleet. Go back on tuesday with a gank-fleet and win because they are propped with anti-EW Go back on wedensday , and be ganked yourself because someone put 60 fighters on your ass.
I totaly agree with you on this one. EW is the one thing that brings unpredictability to the field.It increases variety in setups and is one of the best things in this game.
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Plim
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Posted - 2006.06.21 15:23:00 -
[29]
Ohnoes! a defense against the win button module -----------------
Victory or death! ... knitting is also an option. |
Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.06.21 15:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zenst I'd concure ECM is rolyaly shafted now if the peep fits ECCM.
Basicly ECCM became the I-WIN no jam me button.
Lame changes to ECCM, very lame indeed.
And that is wrong how? Isn't that the purpose of ECCM? Keep in mind that ECCM does absolutely nothing for you when your opponent does not use jammers, while ECM is useful in just about every situation, even with just one multispec you can still jam an enemy that has 3 ECCMs fitted, albeit with a smaller chance than before.
Even with the new ECCM, a maxskill scorp has a 25% chance to jam an enemy battleship with 80 sensor strength using multispecs, 36% chance using racials. Considering the devastating effect of ECM, those numbers actually seem still too high to me. But I am a bit biased as I consider ECM very lame indeed and an I-win button killing most of the fun in small gang PvP, so maybe those new numbers are fine.
And generally I agree that this is just a bandaid while surgery is in order. :/ --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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