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Titus Tallang
EVE University Ivy League
36
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just a quickie.
With the changes to drone skills in Kronos, Hobgoblins (and other light scout drones) now require the new Light Drone Operation skill as opposed to the old Scout Drone Operation (now Drone Avionics) skill.
However, I feel like there's a slight oversight in the execution of this change. As Light Drone Operation is one half of the old Combat Drone Operation skill, it - like Combat Drone Operation used to - requires the generic Drones skill to level III to inject.
Now, while the roughly 3 hours of training time to get a 1x multiplier skill to level III is quite irrelevant to veteran players, I would believe that this could have quite a significant impact on a brand new player trying the game for the first time and that is progressing through the tutorials. For these players, waiting 3 hours to try out the first Civilian drone they just got will be, at best, a nuisance and, at worst, may even lead to them discarding the weapon system entirely for the first few days of playing the game.
To resolve this, I'd suggest a very simple change to bring training requirements for "baby's first drone", essentially, back to what they used to be before Kronos - change the requirement to inject Light Drone Operation to Drones I (from III) while leaving the requirement for Medium Drone Operation at Drones III. Teaching Manager - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/ |
Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole
355
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Titus Tallang wrote:Just a quickie.
With the changes to drone skills in Kronos, Hobgoblins (and other light scout drones) now require the new Light Drone Operation skill as opposed to the old Scout Drone Operation (now Drone Avionics) skill.
However, I feel like there's a slight oversight in the execution of this change. As Light Drone Operation is one half of the old Combat Drone Operation skill, it - like Combat Drone Operation used to - requires the generic Drones skill to level III to inject.
Now, while the roughly 3 hours of training time to get a 1x multiplier skill to level III is quite irrelevant to veteran players, I would believe that this could have quite a significant impact on a brand new player trying the game for the first time and that is progressing through the tutorials. For these players, waiting 3 hours to try out the first Civilian drone they just got will be, at best, a nuisance and, at worst, may even lead to them discarding the weapon system entirely for the first few days of playing the game.
To resolve this, I'd suggest a very simple change to bring training requirements for "baby's first drone", essentially, back to what they used to be before Kronos - change the requirement to inject Light Drone Operation to Drones I (from III) while leaving the requirement for Medium Drone Operation at Drones III.
Makes sense, since drones have become a pillar of EVE combat right along with lasers, hybrids, projectiles, and missiles it makes sense that there should be a way to easily get into using them right out of the box.
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
463
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
There is no real reason why this shouldn't be a thing.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Anamari Martinozzi
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
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Posted - 2014.06.28 23:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
This makes sense, for every other weapon system you can use their basic version at Level I, so why would you need Level III for Drones to use their basic version? |
Iain Cariaba
In Over Our Heads
91
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Posted - 2014.06.29 01:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Anamari Martinozzi wrote:This makes sense, for every other weapon system you can use their basic version at Level I, so why would you need Level III for Drones to use their basic version? Because drones are not a primary weapon system until you get into larger ship classes, regardless of what other may think.
Kaerakh wrote:Makes sense, since drones have become a pillar of EVE combat right along with lasers, hybrids, projectiles, and missiles it makes sense that there should be a way to easily get into using them right out of the box. Let the rookies get into the swing of controlling one type of weapon system before you start throwing more and more systems at them. If they need to learn how to control their own ship's weapons, they don't need the added confusion of having to remember to launch drones, recall them before warping out, when to put them on passive vs aggressive, etc. Once they've gotten the hang of flying and fighting on their own, 3 hours won't mean anything to them just like us bittervets. If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong. |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
406
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Posted - 2014.06.29 01:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Anamari Martinozzi wrote:This makes sense, for every other weapon system you can use their basic version at Level I, so why would you need Level III for Drones to use their basic version? Because drones are not a primary weapon system until you get into larger ship classes, regardless of what other may think.
Gotta disagree with this. There are 6 T1 frigates just between Amarr and Caldari that rely heavily on drones. Immediately after that you have the Dragoon and Algos destroyers.
That given, no. 3 hours is not a big deal, but every other skill book you're required to use for the tutorials only requires level 1 to complete the mission, if I'm not mistaken, so this skill shouldn't be an exception to that rule which keeps the tutorials rolling along smoothly. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn We pooped on your lawn.
23
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Posted - 2014.06.29 01:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Anamari Martinozzi wrote:This makes sense, for every other weapon system you can use their basic version at Level I, so why would you need Level III for Drones to use their basic version? Because drones are not a primary weapon system until you get into larger ship classes, regardless of what other may think. Kaerakh wrote:Makes sense, since drones have become a pillar of EVE combat right along with lasers, hybrids, projectiles, and missiles it makes sense that there should be a way to easily get into using them right out of the box. Let the rookies get into the swing of controlling one type of weapon system before you start throwing more and more systems at them. If they need to learn how to control their own ship's weapons, they don't need the added confusion of having to remember to launch drones, recall them before warping out, when to put them on passive vs aggressive, etc. Once they've gotten the hang of flying and fighting on their own, 3 hours won't mean anything to them just like us bittervets. Well, lets look at that again. if Tristan, Algos and Dragoons (especially Dragoon) main weapons systems are NOT drones, something is wrong. Is it because they have a second bonus to other weapon systems (except for Dragoon) or turret slots in general? Gallente advanced military introduces them to their secondary weapon system, drones as well as giving a drone ship (Tristan). All 3 function very well as drone ships with secondary weapon systems (turrets)
As for "let the rookies learn", drones are introduced in the Gallente Advanced Military Career where they are given their first Civilian drones (which for some reason has skill requirements), just like Caldari gets introduced missiles, but is that too much? So since they are given drones during tutorial, why should they wait 8-9 hours to use them, when other secondary weapons systems are just around 15mins? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10551
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Posted - 2014.06.29 02:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
My initial kneejerk reaction was "no, it's only a few hours so who cares?"
But asking for the change for the sake of streamlining NPE makes a lot of sense. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Kristalll
Rolled Out
306
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Posted - 2014.06.29 02:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wouldn't it just make sense to have the civilian drone not take skills into account just like other civilian weapons?
No need to change the skills for real drones. GÇ£Die tryingGÇ¥ is the proudest human thing. |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
406
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Posted - 2014.06.29 02:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Wouldn't it just make sense to have the civilian drone not take skills into account just like other civilian weapons?
No need to change the skills for real drones.
This is also a very reasonable proposition, and more easily achieved. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
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Elusive Panda
Gendry's Leech Nerfed Alliance Go Away
42
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Posted - 2014.06.29 05:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm usually against any shortening or shortcut in the skill tree, but you make very compelling arguments.
+1 |
Revan Reznor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.06.29 11:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Makes sense to me. At the very least remove or reduce the skill requirement for the civilian drones to simply Drones I in order to streamline the tutorial. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
172
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
There are civilian combat drones ?
Besides that, yes , it doesn't make sense to not have the drone skill in line with all other weapon systems.
And while we talk about that, the civilian mining drone that does exist, needs a few skills, usually civilians don't need any skills - fix that too (or at least to level 1 req) ? Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Artyom Hunter
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
12
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Posted - 2014.06.29 15:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1
Small change, makes sense, keep mediums at Drones III and lower lights to Drones I.
If new players are introduced to drones via the tutorial (Haven't tried the new tutorial), some might not be patient enough to wait 3 hours before they can try them out.
A lot of new players probably aren't used to the waiting for skills and patience required to play EVE. |
Sofia Fay
Tash-Murkon Tactical Unit
0
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Posted - 2014.06.29 15:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Recently started playing EVE. Training up skills for Tormentor (Amarr frigate). Wanted to use drones... trained drones level 1, level 2, level 3, light drones level 1. Tormentor can only use 2 light drones?!?
So yes please, let frigate pilots use drones sooner! |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
1245
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Posted - 2014.06.29 16:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Supported. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1744
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Posted - 2014.06.29 16:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
+1 EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
763
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Posted - 2014.06.29 17:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Supported. Remove insurance. |
Kaaeliaa
Ministry of War
1199
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Posted - 2014.06.30 08:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Not a bad idea. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
401
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Posted - 2014.06.30 09:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Skill requirement for using 'Civilian Hobgoblins' is 'Drones' at level 1.
Hardly a problem. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
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Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
160
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Posted - 2014.06.30 19:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 I see no reason not to do this. Great idea! |
Pearl Canopus
19
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Posted - 2014.07.01 15:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1 I have'nt checked that out before, because I'm skilled well with drones.
The reason was to uniform the skills with other weapon skills like turrets and missiles. But I'm really sure for a better understanding by new players all armament should have harmonized skill levels for low level entry.
Snall Turrets need Gunnery at Level 1. Light Missiles need Missile Launcher Operation at Level 2. Now Light Drone Operation has Drones Level 3?
Well, I'm really sure, that CCP should be aware of that and will harmonize all the weapons skills in any reasonable way.
Civilian modules need no skills what are not preset for new players. So far civilian drones should also need no further entry level skills.
One step further: Career agents should take care of the usual factional armament and provide skills for short range or long range weapons to rookies. They could decide whether they want to skill for drones (Amarr, Gallente) or missiles (Caldari, Minmatar) instead of racial turrets only. In some cases this might save skill time for specializations. So, why not preinstalled or prefitted civilian light scout drones and civilian missile launcher for civilian scourge or civilian nova missiles? The entry level skill for all light weapons should be preset for all rookies.
The ships provided by career agents should match the specialization. And so on... Sorry for beeing off-topic. |
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