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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.06.24 20:44:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akiman on 24/06/2006 20:45:24 it didnt get the 4th slot couse its overpowered? overpowered couse of ewar drones? what do you think? About enyo i think it get %2.5 tracking per lvl.is that really good or matters? what about changes of other 5 sloted afs if u compare?
thnx Akiman
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.06.24 20:48:00 -
[2]
Uh
Whine whine whine, sigs |
Akiman
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Posted - 2006.06.24 21:05:00 -
[3]
uh? and?
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.06.24 21:15:00 -
[4]
ishkur has 1 slot less because its a droneboat
+tracking will relate in slightly higher dmg output as you will hit more often, is it awesome? i dont think so. Good? dunno, but i wouldnt turn down free gifts, and at lvl 5 it will be 12,5% extra tracking and i'd say thats good enough
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.06.24 21:36:00 -
[5]
so they add 1 more slot to balance with the ishkur?is it a curse to be a drone boat that prevents to get another med slot?
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.06.24 21:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tiuwaz on 24/06/2006 21:50:31
Originally by: Akiman so they add 1 more slot to balance with the ishkur?is it a curse to be a drone boat that prevents to get another med slot?
hawk/jaguar/vengeance got 1 more slot to be brought in line with wolf, enyo etc
Ishkur didnt get that extra slot becasue its a droneboat, the big dronebay practically counts as a slot, its the same for some other droneboats (e.g.: Dominix)
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:11:00 -
[7]
well i didnt knew that drone ships 1 less slot thanks for the info m8 so it is normal eh?
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Jerick Ludhowe
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:22:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe on 24/06/2006 23:22:27
Originally by: Tiuwaz
Ishkur didnt get that extra slot becasue its a droneboat, the big dronebay practically counts as a slot, its the same for some other droneboats (e.g.: Dominix)
If only that rule applied to the ishtar, curse, and pilgrim. CCP I ask you a question, how do these 3 ships get away with having the same number of slots as others in their class but also keep their large drone bays and 10% damage bonuss, the ball is in your court.
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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:36:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akiman on 24/06/2006 23:37:18 because they are tech II maybe? if so why didnt they make ishkur with 1 less slot from the beginning? if drone ships gets 1 less slot
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:38:00 -
[10]
More or less slots do not matter. It's how they perform.
People need to get this symmetry thing out of their heads. New sig coming soonÖ By "soon" I do not necessarily mean "this year" |
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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:40:00 -
[11]
every game needs balancing..that is why they make changes
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Akiman every game needs balancing..that is why they make changes
Yes, but symmetry isn't balance. Symmetry is just balance of appearances. New sig coming soonÖ By "soon" I do not necessarily mean "this year" |
Jerick Ludhowe
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ithildin More or less slots do not matter. It's how they perform.
People need to get this symmetry thing out of their heads.
Fair enough, I'll ask you a question then. How do you think the Curse, Pilgrim and Ishtar stack up against ships in their same class?
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.06.25 00:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Ithildin More or less slots do not matter. It's how they perform.
People need to get this symmetry thing out of their heads.
Fair enough, I'll ask you a question then. How do you think the Curse, Pilgrim and Ishtar stack up against ships in their same class?
while in principle i agree with Ithildin this is a pretty good counter ;D
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.06.25 01:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Ithildin More or less slots do not matter. It's how they perform.
People need to get this symmetry thing out of their heads.
Fair enough, I'll ask you a question then. How do you think the Curse, Pilgrim and Ishtar stack up against ships in their same class?
Vagabond? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
The ArchWarder
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Posted - 2006.06.25 04:07:00 -
[16]
Pilgrim, curse and Ishtar ( to a degree ) have their drone bays and their slots because their drones are the only thing actually doing the dammage on the target.
Iskur didnt get the slot because its dammage comes mainly from its guns and its drones are secondary ( but still bloody hurt on smaller ships )
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Jerick Ludhowe
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Posted - 2006.06.25 04:28:00 -
[17]
Point I'm trying to make is that almost all other ship classes in the game have been balanced around some rather simple ideas, larger drone bay = less grid and fewer slots. I'm not trying to derail the thread into a "omgz fix hacs/recons" thread however I think that the topic at hand has a lot in common with what I am talking about.
In short, CCP needs to to take a long hard look at some of the tech 2 ships they have introduced. They need to look at what has worked in the past for ballancing tech 1 ships and take some of those lessons and apply them to tech 2.
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2006.06.25 05:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Point I'm trying to make is that almost all other ship classes in the game have been balanced around some rather simple ideas, larger drone bay = less grid and fewer slots.
Ishtar has 3 turret hard points and significantly lower cpu/pg than it's turret-based counterpart, the Deimos... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Talon Calais
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Posted - 2006.06.25 06:52:00 -
[19]
I don't know about you guys, but I can't break the tank of a 800k Domi in my Enyo (Setup below), but in my Ishkur I can take down 950k Megathrons no problem :/
Enyo:
4x Neutron II w/Standard AM 1x Rocket II w/Thorn Rage
AB II X5 Web
Small Armor Rep II Cap Relay Mag Stab II MAPC
I don't know how to improve that setup anymore, I run into CPU issues by like 10 or 20, can't remember (At work right now) so I can't add another Mag Stab.
Ishkur:
3x Ion II w/Standard AM 1x Small remote repair
AB II Web 20km Scram (I have a problem with NPCs warping off using this ship specifically)
Small Armor Rep II Cap Relay Mag Stab II
5x Hobgoblin II (Hammerhead IIs are far and few between in Placid)
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.06.25 07:09:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Foulis on 25/06/2006 07:08:55
Originally by: Talon Calais Ishkur:
3x Ion II w/Standard AM 1x Small remote repair
AB II Web 20km Scram (I have a problem with NPCs warping off using this ship specifically)
Small Armor Rep II Cap Relay Mag Stab II
5x Hobgoblin II (Hammerhead IIs are far and few between in Placid)
That set-up is bad as both a pvp and a pve ship. Way to go.
Generally Speaking:
PvP- Hi: 2x Ion II, 2x Small Nos Med: 1x Ab, 1x Web, 1x Scrambler Low: 1x SAR II, 1x MFS II, 1x Explosive Hardener.
PvE- Hi: 3x Ion II, 1x Small Nos Med: 1x Ab, 2x Cap Recharger Low: 1x SAR II, 2x MFS II
You don't really need the cap rechargers in the pve setup, I usually run with a tackle on (from the PvP) just in case. ----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.06.25 08:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: The ArchWarder
Iskur didnt get the slot because its dammage comes mainly from its guns and its drones are secondary ( but still bloody hurt on smaller ships )
2-3 light blasters do more damage than 1-3 medium drones and 2-4 light drones combined?
~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake |
Yazoul Samaiel
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Posted - 2006.06.25 09:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Akiman every game needs balancing..that is why they make changes
Yes, but symmetry isn't balance. Symmetry is just balance of appearances.
Aye , the performance of ur ship and its mods is what makes it better or worse or needs improvmenet . "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
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Talon Calais
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Posted - 2006.06.25 09:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Foulis Edited by: Foulis on 25/06/2006 07:08:55
Originally by: Talon Calais Ishkur:
3x Ion II w/Standard AM 1x Small remote repair
AB II Web 20km Scram (I have a problem with NPCs warping off using this ship specifically)
Small Armor Rep II Cap Relay Mag Stab II
5x Hobgoblin II (Hammerhead IIs are far and few between in Placid)
That set-up is bad as both a pvp and a pve ship. Way to go.
Generally Speaking:
PvP- Hi: 2x Ion II, 2x Small Nos Med: 1x Ab, 1x Web, 1x Scrambler Low: 1x SAR II, 1x MFS II, 1x Explosive Hardener.
PvE- Hi: 3x Ion II, 1x Small Nos Med: 1x Ab, 2x Cap Recharger Low: 1x SAR II, 2x MFS II
You don't really need the cap rechargers in the pve setup, I usually run with a tackle on (from the PvP) just in case.
Congrats, you changed about 2 things.
1.) I don't need a nos for pve, my cap holds steady at like 20% with repper + guns going all the time. If my drones draw agro from the NPCs I like to be able to repair them in 0.0 where last I checked there wasn't a whole lot of safe places for me to dock and replace them.
2.) With the change from a relay to a recharger, and adding another MFS II, it will save me probably 50 rounds and probably 30 seconds for a BS fight, and I currently have an infitite supply of rounds in my ratting system so I really don't care either way.
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Jerick Ludhowe
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Posted - 2006.06.25 13:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Ishtar has 3 turret hard points and significantly lower cpu/pg than it's turret-based counterpart, the Deimos...
Indeed it does, however you have just insulted the Ishtar by comparing it to arguably the worst HAC. Ishtar does close to 400 dps w/o using any grid, cap, cpu or a single slot. Ishtar also has far more utility as it has enough extra drone space to use a wide variety of drones.
There is no doubt that the ishtar is an above average HAC, probably second only to the vegabond. Is there a chance that this is because it has the same number of slots as the rest of the ships while retaining an absolutaly massive drone bay? Removing a slot from the ship only seems logical. Curse and Pilgrim may be a different storry as they lack an extremely powerfull EWAR option such as Dampening and ECM, instead they make up for that shortcoming with the ability to easily disable ships via nos.
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