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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Maru Niffilen
United Trading Organisation
3
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Posted - 2014.07.11 10:00:00 -
[91] - Quote
I hope CCP doesn't intervene this time. The price should spike and spike and crash hard, otherwise it's easy to make money when CCP drops the price after every crazy "breakout" like now. |
Dave Stark
6532
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 10:02:00 -
[92] - Quote
according to eve-market's data, october 2011 was when it hit 400m/plex. (**** their graphs are horrible to get data from), it just hit 800 at the beginning of the week so that's july 2013. that's what, 32 months? that's only a 2.2% increase in plex prices every month. |
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
242
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 10:04:00 -
[93] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Now on this i disagree , i am seeing a lot of friends going from X accounts to just 1 or 2 accounts and once we get passed the mighty 1B mark i am expecting a big drop in active accounts. Only time will tell .
you and a small number of your friends isn't really a representative sample now is it? :P
i went from 3 accounts to 2 myself, about a year ago. in the month before odyssey (the last month my 3rd account was active) i earned enough cash to buy about 22 plex, at last week's prices...[/quote]
Do you believe that you are a more accurate representation of the average player?
I don't even know why you're arguing with people. It's like a millionaire telling a trap on the street that he should just buy a house instead of living in that box.
Congratulations on being at the higher end of the food chain but you should be able to understand that everyone is different and the eve economy wouldn't exist if there weren't winners and losers. |
Maekchu
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
28
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Posted - 2014.07.11 10:20:00 -
[94] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:Dave Stark wrote:flakeys wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
plex is still trivially easy to afford and i sincerely doubt it'll result in many unsubs, let alone enough for ccp to even notice it as anything other than usual player turnover.
Now on this i disagree , i am seeing a lot of friends going from X accounts to just 1 or 2 accounts and once we get passed the mighty 1B mark i am expecting a big drop in active accounts. Only time will tell . you and a small number of your friends isn't really a representative sample now is it? :P i went from 3 accounts to 2 myself, about a year ago. in the month before odyssey (the last month my 3rd account was active) i earned enough cash to buy about 22 plex, at last week's prices.. Do you believe that you are a more accurate representation of the average player? I don't even know why you're arguing with people. It's like a millionaire telling a trap on the street that he should just buy a house instead of living in that box. Congratulations on being at the higher end of the food chain but all your statements don't change the fact that some people are being priced out of the plex market and as a result, some of those people choose to quit. The market (as well as the PLEX market), is a PvP game. If you cannot compete with the big boys, don't blame your inability on CCP. Deal with it or adapt.
The PLEX was not made, so you can make a subscription game a F2P for little effort.
If you cannot afford spending the time grinding the ISK for PLEX, then make use of the subscription as any normal "casual" player. The sub fee is at a standard rate for an MMO, and if you cannot even afford that, then you probably should consider spending more time IRL making money, than playing a game. |
Dave Stark
6532
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Posted - 2014.07.11 10:21:00 -
[95] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:Dave Stark wrote:flakeys wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
plex is still trivially easy to afford and i sincerely doubt it'll result in many unsubs, let alone enough for ccp to even notice it as anything other than usual player turnover.
Now on this i disagree , i am seeing a lot of friends going from X accounts to just 1 or 2 accounts and once we get passed the mighty 1B mark i am expecting a big drop in active accounts. Only time will tell . you and a small number of your friends isn't really a representative sample now is it? :P i went from 3 accounts to 2 myself, about a year ago. in the month before odyssey (the last month my 3rd account was active) i earned enough cash to buy about 22 plex, at last week's prices.. Do you believe that you are a more accurate representation of the average player? I don't even know why you're arguing with people. It's like a millionaire telling a trap on the street that he should just buy a house instead of living in that box. Congratulations on being at the higher end of the food chain but all your statements don't change the fact that some people are being priced out of the plex market and as a result, some of those people choose to quit.
not at all, i just thought i'd throw a random anecdote out there because i'm a narcissist.
sure they might quit, but i bet more will quit just because of reasons. as has been pointed out, an account paid for with plex that stops getting plexed doesn't hurt ccp's bottom line. the plex has already been paid for by some one else, and will still be consumed somewhere. in fact, with regard to ccp's bottom line, they probably love plex prices being high since RMTers have to work harder and are less profitable, more players are buying plex with irl cash because an extra hour at work is easier than a weekend grinding isk etc.
I'm just not entirely sure what all the "waaah, i'm going to unsub an alt" posts are trying to achieve. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1417
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Posted - 2014.07.11 10:24:00 -
[96] - Quote
I just made my part.. bought 4 plex with the money I made in 1,5 hour work in real life and sold them for 830M isk. Now stop whining unless you start doing the same. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1417
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 10:28:00 -
[97] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:according to eve-market's data, october 2011 was when it hit 400m/plex. (**** their graphs are horrible to get data from), it just hit 800 at the beginning of the week so that's july 2013. that's what, 32 months? that's only a 2.2% increase in plex prices every month.
Well that ONLY.. is higher than the interest rate of even the most wacky 3rd world country loans and higher than the inflation of any real value comodities in the world.
Yes plexes are risign very very fast. No one can deny that. What people do nto realize is that nothign can be done unless you start inviting lots of rich peopel to play the game, people that will buy 40 PLEX on their secodn week in game to sell them in the market at the imediate sell price just so they can buy the ships they want. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1417
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 10:29:00 -
[98] - Quote
Pine Marten wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Pine Marten wrote:With how EASY it is to make isk in the billions, I fully expect plex to hit 2bil in 3 months. i'm sure it'll hit that much, but not that fast. i doubt ccp'd let it happen that fast. There is no reason that they could intervene. I also have no idea how they would. Isn't the market and setting prices yourself, emergent gameplay? market wars?
But the produciton of that item is OUTSIDE game.. so they can interfere. They can reduce $ price of plex for example.. but to that happen would need a really serious scenario.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
flakeys
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2306
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 10:33:00 -
[99] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:flakeys wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
plex is still trivially easy to afford and i sincerely doubt it'll result in many unsubs, let alone enough for ccp to even notice it as anything other than usual player turnover.
Now on this i disagree , i am seeing a lot of friends going from X accounts to just 1 or 2 accounts and once we get passed the mighty 1B mark i am expecting a big drop in active accounts. Only time will tell . you and a small number of your friends isn't really a representative sample now is it? :P i went from 3 accounts to 2 myself, about a year ago. in the month before odyssey (the last month my 3rd account was active) i earned enough cash to buy about 22 plex, at last week's prices. so in a month, i earned enough isk with 3 accounts to plex my remaining two, for almost a year (again, at today's prices). if i'd have been smart enough and dumped the isk in to plex once odyssey hit then i'd probably still be living on plexed accounts with change left over. me dropping an account had nothing to do with plex prices, i simply ran out of useful things to do with a third account. like i say, those caught up in the "waaaa plex are too expensive", i don't think, will even be noticed in the tide of natural player turnover. i really can't help but feel the "i'll unsub all of my accounts because plex is over x price" has as much substance as "gankers drive away new players", just sounds like the same **** with a different coloured bow.
The problem is you keep looking at it from a point of 'Can you achieve X amount in X time' but at a certain point it is a matter of 'Is it worth to achieve X amount in x time ' wich is completely different and i feel that the 1 B mark will be the point where to a lot of people it just is not worth it.
I could sub all my 5 accounts with ease for years and years to come on plex , but i don' t feel it is worth it and as such am working with 2 accounts now.At a certain point people who have a lot less in their wallet will feel this way about their 2nd and in some cases their only account.
At least that is my assumption and as said only time will tell.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
242
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Posted - 2014.07.11 10:36:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: I'm just not entirely sure what all the "waaah, i'm going to unsub an alt" posts are trying to achieve.
Maybe you shouldn't look at it as "whining" but merely the expression of an opinion. Then you might be able see both sides without feeling like you have to defend your playstyle/life choices and discount anyone that has an opinion different to your own.
I've expressed my views clearly and honestly and have nothing more to contribute to this thread. Goodby o/ |
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Grobalobobob Bob
Hedion University Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2014.07.11 11:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
At current rates, I earn just a small smidge under 4 plex per hour in my real life job, but I'll round it down to 3, to avoid any +/-
800m isk per plex, it's about 2.4bn isk an hour, 74/7, since I get paid monthly.. 2.4bn isk an hour when i'm in bed asleep (infact an 8 hour sleep is worth 19.2bn isk)... 2.4bn isk an hour when I'm with my girlfriend and my 3 year old daughter on the beach.
My point being.. why the hell would I consider farming in game for an hour to earn 100m isk? I guess the only reason would to make that hour income 2.5bn isk. Maybe watch an episode of Big Bang theory and earn 1.6bn isk...
The more PLEX prices go up, the more value is added to my hourly ISK income - if I were to substitute real life earning to buy plex from CCP, and sell it on the eve market.
Yes it's trivial for some to buy plex from in game isk faucets, and the cost of PLEX will adversely affect these players. Where as, someone like me enjoys life and times in the real world, with a healthy job etc, buying a plex when ever i need an isk injection is trivial as well. BUT the massive PLEX prices benefits me hugely.
Interesting lastly, it devalues ships as well.. always a real life value on eve assets through the value of PLEX, so, a couple of years ago, I'd have to sell 2 or even 3 PLEX to buy my Marauder, yet, now, only takes 1.
To me, TIME is everything.. Farming in eve is boring as hell, and very time consuming. Why spend so much time being a robot, when buying and selling ONE PLEX is the same (for me) as about a week of tedium (I play casually). I'm lovin it.
But i do feel a bit bad for those reliant solely on PLEX to sub their account though.
Additional thought: I'd bet right now, that CCP are actually selling more plex codes to people like me cashing in on the great PLEX value vs in game farming 10x more for the same amount. |
Erin Crawford
133
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 12:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
Steve Celeste wrote:PLEX nearing 900m--thoughts?
zis iz wat i'm zinking about:
http://youtu.be/KNalxy-_SyM |
Ambo
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
125
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 13:48:00 -
[103] - Quote
Here's the thing:
1. Buy PLEX 2. Use PLEX to run account, training up some specialised char in a free slot. 3. Sell char for more than the cost of the plex you've used to train them.
= Free sub to eve* and get a little extra isk for the trouble of managing a skill queue.
* Assuming you don't want to train any more on your main(s) * Oh, and the character transfer fee ofc. forgot about that. Still $20 or whatever it is for the 18 months or so it takes to train a super char seems alright to me. |
BigWolfUK
Ewoks of Fire
4
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Posted - 2014.07.11 13:53:00 -
[104] - Quote
Something that may or maybe not also be having an effect on demand All those humble bundle accounts brought and activated via the buddy system a while back, are expiring beginning of next week, while those that just used the standard activation already hit their renew date 2? weeks ago Since many people (myself included) used it to make even more alts, I would imagine it having some impact on the demand side But also, considering we're approaching the time when PLEX normally has a spike anyway, more likely people 'investing' prior But regardless, it's all speculation since only CCP knows how many PLEX are actually brought with RL cash, and how many plex are being used for ingame purposes |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5448
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 15:56:00 -
[105] - Quote
flakeys wrote: The problem is you keep looking at it from a point of 'Can you achieve X amount in X time' but at a certain point it is a matter of 'Is it worth to achieve X amount in x time ' wich is completely different and i feel that the 1 B mark will be the point where to a lot of people it just is not worth it.
I could sub all my 5 accounts with ease for years and years to come on plex , but i don' t feel it is worth it and as such am working with 2 accounts now.At a certain point people who have a lot less in their wallet will feel this way about their 2nd and in some cases their only account.
At least that is my assumption and as said only time will tell.
I agree with you. I also have dropped some subs. I don't pay with PLEX, I had up to 13 subs running on my various MMOs. So it's not even a problem of money.
It's a problem of: "why?"
I hoped CCP would revamp its markets UI making it modern. Or that CCP would finally allow people to get a real time market data stream (after all they want to forbid cache scraping). Or upgrade charts from 1985 wintage to 2000 (not asking for much, eh?).
Nope. I hoped one day to see EvE economy evolve and some embryos of finance appear (say: automated tellering for who wants to start something that needs it), binding contracts, maybe contracts to honor in the future... all bricks to pave an evolution from the static, firmly stuck at 2003 situation.
So, is it worth for the likes of me (and maybe Flakeys once he got tired of ships PvP like I did) to keep half a dozen subs? For what?
On an unrelated matter, EvE HAS a number of issues that imo are serious:
1) Past a certain thresold, the correlation between (the) ice and PLEX becomes co-causation. Worse, self-amplifying causation (positive feedback). Given the amount of miners this can cause trouble, the more they pay for a PLEX the higher the price they CAN demand (as ice is a finite resource now) and this causes a waterfall effect everywhere.
2) Certain kind of expansions don't warm up the biggest PLEX => isk convertors (typically, alpha mentality people with RL money to use to "shortcut" in game grinding say for their elite PvP).
3) The decision (imo bad) to water down EvE expansions. With that way, EvE becomes a dull, very slow progress change game. 2 expansions a year - expecially 2 "flashy" ones, give much more OOMPH to subs. Sure, they spike and then fade throughout the year, but with no OOMPH all we'll see is a slow hemorragy of people who get bored seeing "little changes, so little we don't feel them".
4) The non decisionist direction EvE has taken in the last years. From "Jesus expansions" they went all the other extreme and now give droplets of improvements spread over months. As they say, it makes more noise a tree falling than a forest growing. People don't have the sensibility to sub to see a forest grow over the decades.
All of this makes me think that the above is changing EvE fundamentals, During the summer, PLEX (and ices) demand usually drops, that's why in the past the smart players would buy a year worth of PLEX and POS fuel in the summer. I have a feeling, this year demand went down BUT supply dropped even more.
PLEX is a thermometer of what's going on. If supply stops, it's because there's less "game drivers" willing to invest in EvE than before. There's less motivation to pay with cash and this happens when statistically there's a perception of the game being less worth paying for than before.
Anyone who wants to read in what I have written, feel free to.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Ambo
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
125
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 16:55:00 -
[106] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: 3) The decision (imo bad) to water down EvE expansions. With that way, EvE becomes a dull, very slow progress change game. 2 expansions a year - expecially 2 "flashy" ones, give much more OOMPH to subs. Sure, they spike and then fade throughout the year, but with no OOMPH all we'll see is a slow hemorragy of people who get bored seeing "little changes, so little we don't feel them".
I think you misunderstand the purpose of the new release model.
One of the key things is that it allows bigger changes, it does not enforce smaller. They could release something in the next summer expansion that has taken the last 12 months to develop and has all the oomph but they can also release unrelated little changes to other systems in the mean time. It's the best of both worlds. |
Erin Crawford
133
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 18:57:00 -
[107] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: ... PLEX is a thermometer of what's going on. If supply stops, it's because there's less "game drivers" willing to invest in EvE than before. There's less motivation to pay with cash and this happens when statistically there's a perception of the game being less worth paying for than before.
Anyone who wants to read in what I have written, feel free to.
Some interesting points.
Also, some players may well have bought a bunch of PLEX with RL money but have not yet traded it within the game - therefore the bought PLEX has not made any impact: a pile of PLEXes sitting in the inventory floor doing nothing while the player hopes for even higher PLEX prices before selling for max profit, temporarily, also adds to the many issues driving whole situation.
CCP would have gained from such sales but the effect would not yet have been felt within the game
Once players start suspecting that PLEX prices may have reached their pinnacle there will probably start a rush of sell offs and prices will fall, drastically. This is obviously connected to many other mechanics within the game as well.
I for one suspect the bubble may pop rather soon. I don't see it reaching the 900 mill average mark with the fuss being generated as it stands now*
*but maybe that's just me hoping to get players paranoid that they'll loose out on a bullish market and trigger a mass sell off before prices drop, thereby triggering the fall of PLEX prices...
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Creamdream
Unlimited Potential
1
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Posted - 2014.07.11 22:05:00 -
[108] - Quote
In less than 24 hours, the price has fallen by as much as 60 million ISK and is now down to 780mil ISK in Dodixie.
Do you guys think this is CCP intervening? |
Evil Brock Nelson
48
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Posted - 2014.07.11 22:08:00 -
[109] - Quote
No |
BigWolfUK
Ewoks of Fire
4
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Posted - 2014.07.11 23:54:00 -
[110] - Quote
Creamdream wrote:In less than 24 hours, the price has fallen by as much as 60 million ISK and is now down to 780mil ISK in Dodixie.
Do you guys think this is CCP intervening?
"Normal market stuff" |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5448
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 07:07:00 -
[111] - Quote
Creamdream wrote:In less than 24 hours, the price has fallen by as much as 60 million ISK and is now down to 780mil ISK in Dodixie.
Do you guys think this is CCP intervening?
No, please read my post above, it describes what *should* happen if markets in EvE are still "realistic".
Price is nearing a strong resistance (a trend line). If it closes below by end of July then price can follow its natural course and create a "breath" swing.
Long term we are in a multi-year (rare) pattern called "Gramophone", with the obvious future consequences on price. IF EvE markets are still "realistic" that is. Time will tell. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Dave Stark
6545
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 14:08:00 -
[112] - Quote
Creamdream wrote:Do you guys think this is CCP intervening?
nope |
Red OverLoad
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.07.13 05:19:00 -
[113] - Quote
I had enough money in eve ,so I dont care about the price of PLEX |
Tennej
LoTax POCO Company of HiSEC
13
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Posted - 2014.07.13 07:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
Not sure this has been said yet but I'm too lazy to read the entire thread.
Plex 450 mil when Ice was an infinite resource. Amarr isotopes were 300k roughly.
SuperNerf Ice....
Result
Plex 800 mil and amarr isotopes at 700k roughly.
Basically CCP underestimated the effects of killing off hi-sec ice mining and the only fix is to make the ice fields in hi-sec bigger or just return ice back to the way it was.
PLEX prices are a merely a symptom of the real problem and I expect PLEX to be at or near 1 bil this time next month unless CCP intervenes.
Why CCP killed the game's only infinite resource is beyond me....but it is what it is.
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NotTheSmartestCookie
New Order Logistics CODE.
31
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Posted - 2014.07.13 09:33:00 -
[115] - Quote
Tennej wrote:Not sure this has been said yet but I'm too lazy to read the entire thread.
Plex 450 mil when Ice was an infinite resource. Amarr isotopes were 300k roughly.
SuperNerf Ice....
Result
Plex 800 mil and amarr isotopes at 700k roughly.
Basically CCP underestimated the effects of killing off hi-sec ice mining and the only fix is to make the ice fields in hi-sec bigger or just return ice back to the way it was.
PLEX prices are a merely a symptom of the real problem and I expect PLEX to be at or near 1 bil this time next month unless CCP intervenes.
Why CCP killed the game's only infinite resource is beyond me....but it is what it is.
Correlation != causation. If anything reducing the vast ice mining bot fleets has reduced PLEX demand.
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Ria Nieyli
12586
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 09:46:00 -
[116] - Quote
Tennej wrote:Not sure this has been said yet but I'm too lazy to read the entire thread.
Plex 450 mil when Ice was an infinite resource. Amarr isotopes were 300k roughly.
SuperNerf Ice....
Result
Plex 800 mil and amarr isotopes at 700k roughly.
Basically CCP underestimated the effects of killing off hi-sec ice mining and the only fix is to make the ice fields in hi-sec bigger or just return ice back to the way it was.
PLEX prices are a merely a symptom of the real problem and I expect PLEX to be at or near 1 bil this time next month unless CCP intervenes.
Why CCP killed the game's only infinite resource is beyond me....but it is what it is.
What's the connection here? And what is the real problem according to you? Do not remove a fly from your friend's forehead with a hatchet.
- Ancient Chinese Proverb |
Nihi Li'aldoko
The Mucking Fuppets
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 12:09:00 -
[117] - Quote
Quick question that has been bothering me.
Why do people consider PLEX to be the "endgame" when it comes to traders. I was studying them and they seem to be a really terrible item to trade. Margin trading them makes peanuts, difference between buy and sell is 10millionish and they only move between 2k-3k a day. Investing 800M in that margin after taxes/fees just doesn't make sense. You could effectively invest that money elsewhere. So I looked at the long term investment. If I bought one at 715M 3 months ago and sold it today for 85M profit that is a terrible return. Less than 30M per month. Okay it is end game and I have billions or trillions to invest to multiply my gains PLEX still seems like a terrible choice for investment either through margins or speculation.
Can someone enlighten me please? |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
372
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 12:15:00 -
[118] - Quote
Only 2-3k? How many other 500m+ items even have a daily volume above 100? .
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Nihi Li'aldoko
The Mucking Fuppets
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 12:21:00 -
[119] - Quote
Its not the 500m+ its the 10m margin. Flipping battleships nets roughly the same margin and are sub-200m. |
Dave Stark
6598
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 13:23:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Tennej wrote:Not sure this has been said yet but I'm too lazy to read the entire thread.
Plex 450 mil when Ice was an infinite resource. Amarr isotopes were 300k roughly.
SuperNerf Ice....
Result
Plex 800 mil and amarr isotopes at 700k roughly.
Basically CCP underestimated the effects of killing off hi-sec ice mining and the only fix is to make the ice fields in hi-sec bigger or just return ice back to the way it was.
PLEX prices are a merely a symptom of the real problem and I expect PLEX to be at or near 1 bil this time next month unless CCP intervenes.
Why CCP killed the game's only infinite resource is beyond me....but it is what it is.
What's the connection here? And what is the real problem according to you?
apparently somehow there's a strong correlation between plex and ice prices? or something. i don't really know either. |
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