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Ryosh
League of the Moon and the Fish
0
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Posted - 2014.07.06 18:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Broad topic, I realize.
I'm back to the game after a multiple-year hiatus, and I see that things are different. This is good. But I'm also left wondering how viable speed tanking still is, and what it looks like in the current state of things in Eve.
To be more clear: How "pure" is speed tanking currently (versus mixed tank, etc)? Which ships tend to be best for it, and what is a typical fitting? What's the status quo on how to fly a speed tank (close range, outside web range, kiting only, etc)? |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
321
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Posted - 2014.07.07 09:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yes. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
321
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Posted - 2014.07.07 09:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Okay sarcasm aside, all speedtank styles are viable depending on hull. Speedtanking is built into the core accuracy formula so it will never become not viable. All classes of ship are good in pvp atm due to tiericide. They just shine in different situations. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1004
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Posted - 2014.07.07 09:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you mean kiting, it always works. Especially in deadspace (either side of an acceleration gate), where you can't have a lone fast tackler chasing you and his slow-arse friends warping to him.
If you mean sig/speed tanking aka 'getting under the guns', it's situational. Most competent PVPers will be prepared to deal with small, fast opponents (light drones, webs, neuts, ...). Unless you're in an assault frig baiting a clueless mission running battleship into a Limited Engagement - that works every time I guess. |
King Rothgar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
408
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Posted - 2014.07.07 10:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Speed tanking hasn't changed much over the years. My favored method is pure kiting, just as it's always been. The Slicer remains a favorite for kiting frigates and no, the fit hasn't changed any. The Comet is also a good one. The Garmur is the best of them given the warp disruptor bonus + high speed, but the high price is keeping them at bay for now.
For cruisers, it's the usual suspects + the new Orthros (also too expensive for general use). The Cynabal got its PG nerfed a bit but you can still cram 720's on it just fine. You just won't have 50% of your PG left over after fitting those and a MWD and a few LSE's and a medium neut. Obviously the Rapier and Loki are good too, as is the trusty Curse.
There is a new addition to them however, the Ishtar. It was always a good kiter but wasn't overly popular. Given the changes to drones and some buffs to cruisers in general, this ship is now the most popular kiting cruiser in the game. Basically it's a vaga, but with twice the dps and 4x the weapon range. Its damage output is also virtually immune to all forms of EW since it comes from drones. This thing is bound to get hammered hard with the nerf bat in the near future.
The kiting Hurricane/Slep is dead. These used to be my two favorites but between cruiser buffs and BC nerfs, they just aren't fast enough. Pretty much any cruiser will out run them, and not by a little bit either. Though they are still effective against other BC's, few people fly BC's so that isn't of much use. Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher. |
Deerin
Federal Navy Special Forces
260
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Posted - 2014.07.07 10:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Depends on how many years back your hiatus goes.
If you mean the old crazy nanophoon's by speed tanking, they are long gone.
The 24km+ range point and kite is working, but most of the ships can reach to that range easily now. So you need to have additional stuff to counter enemy dps(tank, ewar etc).
Abundance of links makes kiting much easier when using skirimsh links. |
Arla Sarain
32
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Posted - 2014.07.07 10:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kiting works and it's stupid to the point it has no counters apart from bringing another ship which is faster.
Hence the mentioned in the previous posts slicer, garmur and comet being so popular.
Tracking/Accuracy tanking is doable, but even against hulls with tracking bonuses it would be tough to achieve without resorting to more exotic solutions, like halo implants, links, boosters and a level 5 ragnarok in fleet. A Frigate with a combination of these would make it tough to hit you even with small guns, and damn nigh impossible for any larger guns. Until someone else warps in at a 100 with railguns and blaps you regardless.
Frigate hulls capable of tracking tanking would be slasher and executioner, both of which would require pretty high skills, not to tank but to DPS. Atron is capable but is worse. Dramiels and Claws are good too but significantly more expensive. Anything passive shield tank would be bad. Anything passive tank would be bad in fact. And the staple of less endowed builds (those not having the exotic solutions mentioned above) would be a tracking disruptor. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1409
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Posted - 2014.07.07 10:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:Speed tanking hasn't changed much over the years.
WHat? I do not see 23 km/s typhoon around anymore.. netiehr my vagabond can reach 11 km/s without boost or speed modules on low slots.
But some things also got really screwed, liek for example the Navy omen being faster than the vagabond.....
CCP lost all the faction flavor sense a few years ago
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1409
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Posted - 2014.07.07 10:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Kiting works and it's stupid to the point it has no counters apart from bringing another ship which is faster.
Hence the mentioned in the previous posts slicer, garmur and comet being so popular.
.
Bullshit. Just brign the correct counter , a rapier or ashimmu. Same way that you need to bring the correct counter to fight a neut boat, you need to bring the correct counter to fight a heavy logistic fleet etc....
PLayers in eve are just lazy and do not want to dock and reship to the correct counter.. they prefer to blame the game.
Kiting is the only way you can engage a group that is larger than you and hope to something. I said HOPE. Because is someone is SMART on that larger group they will have a rapier, Loki or ashimmu ( how a 10 man gang does not bring at least 1 of such ships is beyond me)
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
King Rothgar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
408
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Posted - 2014.07.07 11:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:King Rothgar wrote:Speed tanking hasn't changed much over the years. WHat? I do not see 23 km/s typhoon around anymore.. netiehr my vagabond can reach 11 km/s without boost or speed modules on low slots. But some things also got really screwed, liek for example the Navy omen being faster than the vagabond..... CCP lost all the faction flavor sense a few years ago
It hasn't changed much over the last few years, the 10km/s+ BS's are quite a bit further back than that. Good times, pity I was too much of a noob back then to fully enjoy it.
Regardless, the counters to it have always been TD's against gunships, SD's sometimes, ECM and range bonused webs/neuts. Kiting has always been powerful and strongly favored skill over the mindless blob. It's really the great equalizer. You can't typically blob a kiter, by the time your other 30 dudes land, the "victim" is 80km away and killing your hero tackle. Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher. |
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Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum
14
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Posted - 2014.07.07 11:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Speed tanks work up until you get Scrammed, although it is possible to speed tank with an AB depending on what your flying at the time and what the opponent is using. If you remember Crows going 8km/s without links or snakes and were hoping for that again abandon ship but you can otherwise still speedtank virtually anywhere. Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum
14
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Posted - 2014.07.07 11:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Kiting works and it's stupid to the point it has no counters apart from bringing another ship which is faster.
Hence the mentioned in the previous posts slicer, garmur and comet being so popular.
. Bullshit. Just brign the correct counter , a rapier or ashimmu. Same way that you need to bring the correct counter to fight a neut boat, you need to bring the correct counter to fight a heavy logistic fleet etc.... PLayers in eve are just lazy and do not want to dock and reship to the correct counter.. they prefer to blame the game. Kiting is the only way you can engage a group that is larger than you and hope to something. I said HOPE. Because is someone is SMART on that larger group they will have a rapier, Loki or ashimmu ( how a 10 man gang does not bring at least 1 of such ships is beyond me)
Even the revamped matari e-war frig with the long range webs would be sufficient long enough for the fleet to land scrams and secondary webs, it amazes me how kitchen sink so many fleets really are Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
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