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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23043
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Posted - 2014.07.10 02:43:00 -
[151] - Quote
Jessica Danikov wrote:I think the current IGB definitely needs nuking...
...in favour of something more modern like CEF (Chromium Embedded Framework). It's not that the IGB needs to go, just a massive overhaul. The IGB uses chromium. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
655
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Posted - 2014.07.10 03:26:00 -
[152] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Never been an issue for me. Hell, when I did play EvE full screen it made doing anything else on my computer much more irritating. Meh. vOv It's the opposite for me: Gîÿ-tabbing out has never been an issue or cause for irritation, but random bits of unrelated UI intruding on my game has.
When you say random bits of UI, what are you talking about?
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
655
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Posted - 2014.07.10 03:27:00 -
[153] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Val'Dore wrote:What I don't get, is why anyone would play at full screen. I get infuriated when mmos developed today don't offer borderless windowed. I mean, what century are these people living in? full screen was out of date once DOS mode games became playable in a window. Because when I'm playing Eve I refere to be immersed with the whole screen and hate having other things on my screen such as the windows bar / whatever. Not to mention when I'm playing, my pc is used solely to play Eve, aka I'm not browsing reddit, imgur, talking on steam or whatever else people do when they play. Edit: Long story short, if a game (any game) can be played in fullscreen, I will play said game in fullscreen...
EvE for me looks exactly the same as EvE does for you. Not considering graphics settings that is.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23043
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Posted - 2014.07.10 03:33:00 -
[154] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:When you say random bits of UI, what are you talking about? Oh all kinds of things. Notifications, start menus, title bars, docks, widgets, those win7/win8 trinket whatchamacallits. All the stuff that some silly person thought should be proximity or gesture triggered.
Really, the key benefit of fullscreen is that it steals all focus and does not let anything else trigger based on your input unless you very specifically set it up that way. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1237
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Posted - 2014.07.10 03:35:00 -
[155] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:Val'Dore wrote:What I don't get, is why anyone would play at full screen. I get infuriated when mmos developed today don't offer borderless windowed. I mean, what century are these people living in? full screen was out of date once DOS mode games became playable in a window. Because when I'm playing Eve I refere to be immersed with the whole screen and hate having other things on my screen such as the windows bar / whatever. Not to mention when I'm playing, my pc is used solely to play Eve, aka I'm not browsing reddit, imgur, talking on steam or whatever else people do when they play. Edit: Long story short, if a game (any game) can be played in fullscreen, I will play said game in fullscreen... EvE for me looks exactly the same as EvE does for you. Not considering graphics settings that is. The point is making sure things that aren't eve aren't there as much as possible. |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force The Kadeshi
356
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Posted - 2014.07.10 05:34:00 -
[156] - Quote
why not just have the game call a 'real' browser like firefox, chrome or ie.....instead of a custom one? |
Illaren Zinfandel
Die Schar des Schwarzen Herzogs
1
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Posted - 2014.07.10 05:39:00 -
[157] - Quote
Sorry ... i just have one monitor and therefore i am in need of the ingame browser ... so Please do not remove it! (and give us back the ingame music player!) |
Johnathan Roark
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
5
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Posted - 2014.07.10 05:49:00 -
[158] - Quote
Annette Nolen wrote:Haven't seen it called out yet but the ability to click on things on a page in the IGB and have it open in-game (showinfo on corps/players, contract details, system info, etc.) is pretty critical too. Losing this would REALLY hurt some tools/use-cases.
This is the biggest issue I see and there is no other way to do this. SSO will not help with opening info ingame and neither will CREST. If your are using IGB headers to authenticate, your doing it wrong. EVEVERIFY - A recruiting API Verification and Audit Tool
Also try out Yapeal for your php api needs |
Johnathan Roark
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
5
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Posted - 2014.07.10 06:00:00 -
[159] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.
Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security
How much slower? Are we talking 30 seconds? Any longer then that I do not see as acceptable. There has to be a better way. When the old ingmae browser was removed and we got this one, we where told this one would be better and that it would be easier to update. I would look at other options other then just removal. EVEVERIFY - A recruiting API Verification and Audit Tool
Also try out Yapeal for your php api needs |
Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention Middle of Nowhere
35
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Posted - 2014.07.10 06:35:00 -
[160] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
As it happened with the Jukebox? No, thanks then. |
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Sodabro
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
450
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Posted - 2014.07.10 07:02:00 -
[161] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:To be fair, WH mapping is the ONLY use for the IGB. clearly you haven't been trolling enough in the ingame channels. |
Sodabro
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
450
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Posted - 2014.07.10 07:04:00 -
[162] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:why not just have the game call a 'real' browser like firefox, chrome or ie.....instead of a custom one? internet exploder is not a 'real' browser |
Mikael Menethil
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.07.10 09:30:00 -
[163] - Quote
I'm on dual monitors and I use the IGB daily. I could write a wall of text telling you how practical it is from a usability POV, but I see you already decided to remove it.
I bet most people don't use the Calculator or the Notepad either, why not remove those too?
Where do I find more info about this CREST thing? I'm not sure I understand what it is, from what I could find. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CREST_Documentation?_ga=1.8170800.328131516.1397476800 |
JediMind Tricks
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.07.10 09:41:00 -
[164] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:It's basically saying "look at me I have a good rig".
No, its saying im not a scrub and can get another screen.... a second hand one off ebay costs less than a plex
Can everyone that is still going ermahgerd ma brawzer read the devs comments before sperging out |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
379
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Posted - 2014.07.10 10:21:00 -
[165] - Quote
JediMind Tricks wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:It's basically saying "look at me I have a good rig". No, its saying im not a scrub and can get another screen.... a second hand one off ebay costs less than a plex Can everyone that is still going ermahgerd ma brawzer read the devs comments before sperging out Eh, for me personally, it's less about being a "scrub", and more about space. My monitor is 50", and given the size of every desk I have seen that would fit in a corner of my living room, there's no way for me to set up a second monitor without it either being in the way of the first, or requiring me to turn 180 degrees, which is probably not a good idea while in space. I still have a couple of my old monitors laying around, so yeah, I've already tried. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
656
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Posted - 2014.07.10 10:36:00 -
[166] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Val'Dore wrote:When you say random bits of UI, what are you talking about? Oh all kinds of things. Notifications, start menus, title bars, docks, widgets, those win7/win8 trinket whatchamacallits. All the stuff that some silly person thought should be proximity or gesture triggered. Really, the key benefit of fullscreen is that it steals all focus and does not let anything else trigger based on your input unless you very specifically set it up that way.
Well, guess I've never had that problem in any borderless windowed game I play. That's going all the way back to AO.
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2407
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Posted - 2014.07.10 10:57:00 -
[167] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:To be fair, WH mapping is the ONLY use for the IGB.
it's also greatly useful when I'm looking up requisitions and stuff that're in EVEHQ. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2301
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Posted - 2014.07.10 11:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
JediMind Tricks wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:It's basically saying "look at me I have a good rig". No, its saying im not a scrub and can get another screen.... a second hand one off ebay costs less than a plex Can everyone that is still going ermahgerd ma brawzer read the devs comments before sperging out Dev comments are like "ermahgerd we are too few to maintain certain level of features in game, better remove it before someone will starts yelling at us in office that its causing players rachitis of their disc drives."
When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Victor Andall
592
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Posted - 2014.07.10 11:51:00 -
[169] - Quote
EVE has an IGB? I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? |
Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2014.07.10 12:17:00 -
[170] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:in related news: CREST is beginning to scare me.
Then just start buying Mirage parts. They're better anyway.
...*crickets*....
What, nobody here played Armored Core 3? You guys are missing out. |
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2044
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Posted - 2014.07.10 12:21:00 -
[171] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:When you say random bits of UI, what are you talking about? Are you trying to turn this into a nerf local thread?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
cyboman
Mafia Italiana
2
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Posted - 2014.07.10 12:26:00 -
[172] - Quote
I think the IGB sucks. Alt-Tab if you need to. Play the game or watch a movie. If EVE bores you that much then quit... Can I request all of your stuff? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2044
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Posted - 2014.07.10 12:41:00 -
[173] - Quote
cyboman wrote:I think the IGB sucks. Alt-Tab if you need to. Play the game or watch a movie. If EVE bores you that much then quit... Can I request all of your stuff? I don't think you quite understand the current situation.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
236
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:04:00 -
[174] - Quote
If an advertiser said "how can we get people to look away from what we're trying to get them to see?" you'd think they were mad, but removing the IGB is not so far removed from that.
If a game drops you to the desktop, or forces you to go there yourself, then you've lost them. They could quite easily get distracted by other stuff there, other games. Eve doesn't need less reasons to play.
Maybe there's a bit of hyperboly there, but as long as it's possible for people to paste links - and God knows they will in times of boredom and waiting, etc - then the game should be able to deal with that. The game really ought to provide everything one might need whilst playing it without having to look elsewhere at all.
The IGB should continue to exist in some form, and it would be fantastic if it was upgraded to support more modern technologies - but at the very least it should persist as is, for all the reasons already mentioned. Not everyone plays in windowed mode. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6079
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:06:00 -
[175] - Quote
Durzel wrote:
If a game drops you to the desktop, or forces you to go there yourself, then you've lost them. They could quite easily get distracted by other stuff there, other games. Eve doesn't need less reasons to play.
Yeah I find myself constantly accidently playing World of Tanks when I alt-tab to check a signature in wormhol.es. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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roigon
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
87
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Posted - 2014.07.10 17:12:00 -
[176] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
Dear mr Socks4
When can I expect to push a button in pyfa that will tell crest to buy the ship + modules + ammo in Jita on my jita alt, then create a contract with red frog to ship it to my staging system, then when I boot up pyfa again and it detects the contract has been finished it creates a contract to black frog to jump it to my low-sec home, then when that is finished tell crust to let my main character fit the ship and occupy it, then have pyfa present me with a notification that my ship is ready?
Something like 3 months sound do-able? |
Alina en Chasteaux
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.07.10 17:28:00 -
[177] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:It depends. If they can get SSO working, great, but alot (and I mean ALOT) of people play in fullscreen.
I'd honestly would kinda hate having to have an ipad next to me to monitor what I'm doing.. I would also like it too.
There are alot of people that use it, and removing it completely would hurt more people than it helped.
Update it, do SSO also, never worry about updating browser again. SSO will only be viable if you can either sign-in once for all your accounts / characters. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
826
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Posted - 2014.07.10 18:03:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Oh wow, this is a pretty amazing thread. Mostly filled with a lot of misunderstanding so let me see if I can clear that up before we get to the Jita riots. Before continuing though, please be advised this post comes to you from a phone and is therefore likely to be filled with even more terribleness than my usual posts. I may try and proof read this though.
So, first and foremost the IGB is not being removed anytime soon and defiantly not without a lot of discussion with the CSM and more importantly you guys. When I say not anytime soon I mean there is no plan to remove it, there is not even a plan to look into how much effort it would be to it. Removing the IGB is as best I can tell years away from happening.
So that probably doesn't help this that much as all i have done is confirm we CCP want to remove the IGB and that it is years away from happening. That doesn't help the fact that many of you use the IGB and feel losing the IGB would hurt your gameplay.
So let me try something else. We don't want to remove the IGB until we have CREST up to the point of replacing it. The most common uses of the IGB are things like DOTLAN's radar or wormhole mapping software. Both those really just need your location information, which we can supply in the an even better way via CREST. Better CREST wouldn't require you to have the IGB open. Log into some website, give it permission to see your location, and even when you are not on that web site it know where you are. This means you get your whole corp to sign up and then only those looking at the mail need to open the browser. This is better in so many ways.
The other big thing the IGB offers is the ability to open links in the client. I don't think we have looked to deep into it, but we should be able to have you press a button on web site and then via CREST it tells the server which tells your client to open some window. Maybe a tad shower but again not only is the format and technology better for developers but the number of uses and possibilities is far greater than the IGB.
I could go on listing so many other things but the bottom line is this: CREST is a far newer technology and more importantly one we can maintain far easier than the IGB. We would like to remove the IGB but we will not do so until CREST, or even maybe something else, gets us feature equal to the IGB.
Really the only question and problem with moving from the IGB to CREST is the fact that you can browse the IGB from the client versus alt-tabbing. From our, or mine anyways, understanding most of you guys have multiple monitors and that's not an issue. There are also other applications that will overlay your current web browser with the game. Things like Overwolf I think it's called. The benefits from us doing things through CREST and relying on you guys to use an existing browser are immense. We get to focus on making cool things instead of trying to maintain a customized browser in the client. Not sure you guys realize just how much work there is in maintaining something as complex as a browser and how much of a security problem for everyone this is.
Anyways, nothing is happening anytime soon, when it does it will be because we, CCP and you the players and the CSM, have had a good long discussion about it, and only once something else is in place to replace it.
I hope that elevates your concerns for now. Let's get back to blowing up spaceships and building an awesome universe together and enjoying the sun... Which I might be the only one doing :P Thanks for the clarification. I'm glad that you are looking to improve third party app support, but some of us (eve those with multiple monitors) don't like having to alt tab to use other programs while gaming. I can appreciate that managing javascript security vulnerabilities can be difficult, but the igb, notepad, calculator, and (formerly) jukebox are some of the little features that really separate the user experience in eve from other online games. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6088
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Posted - 2014.07.10 18:08:00 -
[179] - Quote
CCCP is thinking about removing the KGB
Is what I keep reading dammit "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Enta Ozuwara
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division Brave Collective
22
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Posted - 2014.07.10 23:04:00 -
[180] - Quote
Oh that's fun. Finally there's some reaction to this. Didn't expect anybody to follow up on this, the CSM seemed pretty dismissve when I asked this. Long story short I send word to the security guy a year ago, now heard after this particular employee leaving CCP that he did agree with me on the IGB as a severe security risk but his hands were bound by upper management.
Bascially someone puts some effort into this, all EVE players can get hacked by clicking a link ingame (that could be disguised as a contract or killmail or whatever) |
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