Once you get out into the wider world, our new players need to join a social group. Except that hisec corporations are skittish about letting 'new players' join because of hisec awoxing: griefers such as my own space-tribe joining a corporation and then murderzoning the membership through a loophole in Concord enforcement - you can join a corp and attack anyone in your own corporation, even in hisec. Here's another sacred cow to slaughter: hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies. The dueling mechanic completely removes the 'need' for corp members to shoot one another outside of Concord enforcement.

Problem: Awoxing in high-sec crops discourages corps from recruiting new players (due to trust issues, i.e. awoxers in sheep's clothing) which reduces EVE new player retention.

Proposed Solution: Remove the rule that allows corp members to kill each other without CONCORD, etc., repercussions in high-sec. Corp member on corp member combat can happen via the current dueling mechanics, so intra-corp awoxing is redundant.

Source: http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-newbie-zone

to be honest, i'm not a fan of removing it.

i don't disagree that it's a good idea to get new players in to corps, however i think that if you're going to be lazy with your recruitment it should bite you in the ass.
and i think that actions having consequences is more important.

the reason awoxing is such an issue isn't because you can shoot corp mates - it's because you can shoot corp mates, and they can get an unbreakable amount of reps from logistics ships that you can't shoot without getting concorded leaving you in a lose-lose situation.

dealing with awoxers would be substantially easier, and almost trivial, if they weren't invincible due to the the concord protected t1 logi ships that can turn even a simple cruiser in to a literally unstoppable killing machine.

and this could be easily fixed by giving a logi a suspect timer if it reps anyone with a weapons timer.

No. This is EvE Online, not themepark carebear Online.

Don't like the game, don't play the game, their are alot of other games that suit you better.

you are aware how neutral logi works while awoxing right?

you are aware of how stupid that is? and how broken it is? and that there's no justification for why it should have ever been that way to begin with, much less keeping it that way?

or are you just going to paste "go bk 2 wow" in every thread?

Cry more please. The more people like you cry, the better.

i'm not crying. i'm just pointing out how uneducated and wrong you are. the fact that you haven't answered a single one of my question quite adequately demonstrates you haven't got a clue about the topic being discussed and are doing far more crying than I am.

some one suggested something that might improve the game? better throw my rattle out of the pram and tell them to go back to wow!

Im not wrong, you are. It's that simple.

already supported a post about allowing this to be a tic-box option, ....

Yeah, no. For two reasons.

First being that there are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of a new player besides awoxing. Spy and corp thief being chief among them. All this would do is make highsec more safe, which is not something that needs to happen, ever.

The other reason the answer is no is as follows:

This is not actually a problem. As a prolific awoxer, I have absolutely zero trouble actually getting into a corp due to my character's status as a "new player". The supposition that being a new character somehow causes any real issues getting into a player corp is completely false.

Pretty shakey and hand-waiving argument there bub. Not to mention, you contradicted yourself saying that corps are suspicious of new players, but newbs aren't impacted getting into corps. Which is it?

Sounds to me like you don't want that newb-squishing passy taken away.

Sorry, but "yes I contradicted myself, but it's a solid argument," doesn fly.

Pretty simple contradiction here. Not sure why you're mad about being called on it.

Yeah, fail with logic, follow with ad hom. That's a good sign your argument is solid.

Jesus, you really think that hand-waiving contradiction was a good argument don't you?

Holy cow man, you should get that mad in check. Being wrong doesn't have to cause you a hemorrhoid.

Jesus, you really think that hand-waiving contradiction was a good argument don't you?

Holy cow man, you should get that mad in check. Being wrong doesn't have to cause you a hemorrhoid.

My 'new chars' also have little issue getting into corps with an api and a little chat with a recruiter. There is even at least a few dozen corps out there that blindly accepts any applicants and simply offers a zero tax haven for mission runners.

Fixed.

This then got used to allow risk free ganking.

the only way awoxing is risk free ganking is because of the absurd way neutral logi works.

1 guy who can shoot his corp mates is going to get absolutely wrecked when the rest of his corp show up and nail his ass to the wall. the only reason this never actually happens is because that 1 guy is almost literally invincible as he has remote reps that can't be stopped.

also, getting rid of an awoxer from your corp is needlessly difficult and involves the downtime dance.

none of the issues with awoxing arise from the ability to shoot your corp mates; they all arise from how other game mechanics are so easily exploitable/broken.

It's both, dude. The very premise of this thread is what's contradictory, and I can correct both points it's trying to make.

It claims it makes it harder for new players to get corps. This is false. I get into corps all the time.

It claims that removing awoxing will make people less suspicious of new players. Also false. There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of a new player besides this. Opsec will not stop being necessary if awoxing goes away.

The entire premise is nonsensical. It's using new players, which are an emotionally sympathetic idea, as a smokescreen to try and make highsec more safe. The other thread has merit, as the tutorials desperately need revamped, and the new player areas should be removed from the rest of the game so we don't have to worry about tripping over them in half of Gallente space.

Highsec needs to be made less rewarding not less safe. Removing things like exploration sites and increasing belt spawn times (on the premise of empire security and their own mining fleets) would go much further in pushing people out. It's not enough to wave a corrot you have to starve the player as well such that they consume them selves out of the food chain.

I speak from experience irl I was forced to move country to make a living not just because the money was better but also because I was staring down the double gun barrels of boredom and poverty.

It's pretty funny...might have been hilarious but my coffee is still working on getting me going...to see all the "wtf? No you can't do that, you don't know ****-all about what made EvE great or what makes it tick!" replies to an idea from Mittens and placed here without his name deliberately.

OP is one of carebears that want to remove the sandbox.

Do you really have to make two shitposting threads?

This isn't the game you are looking for.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yes, goonswarm are well known carebears.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

It's pretty funny...might have been hilarious but my coffee is still working on getting me going...to see all the "wtf? No you can't do that, you don't know ****-all about what made EvE great or what makes it tick!" replies to an idea from Mittens and placed here without his name deliberately.

Wasn't that mittani post a joke?

Didn't read like one.

"You're also an idiot and obsessed with 'principles' which will eventually kill Eve." doesn't seem like a very jokey accusation to levy in such an article with no disclaimer or apparent sarcasm or telling change in tone of writing.

The post prior to that one alludes to the possibility of just saying inflammatory things to publicly **** off reddit.

The post prior to that one alludes to the possibility of just saying inflammatory things to publicly **** off reddit.

I think the article banner is all the indication you need.

Maybe I'm just not enough into the meta here, but I'm assuming alluding to WoW = auto troll is the lesson supposedly invoked here?

I think it is a good idea to remove the ability for corporation members to shoot each other. Go hang out in the npc chats and see just how disappointed new players are that they can't get in to corps because of this. most of them will end up leaving.
And for those of you that think api or any other screening method will save you from awoxers... you clearly live in never never land.
I can spin up a new account and get it in to just about any corp without a trace of me being an awoxers alt. I can then sell said toon.. .if that is what I was in to. A toon a few months old can easily destroy a pve ship.

Let me put it like this. Even if it wasn't, the fantasy setting is going to invoke a knee jerk reaction from the general populace for being remotely relateable to WoW. A mass manipulator such as Mittens is well aware of this and even went so far as to weave in some truths and commonly proposed bad ideas to hook people with. Most people can be sorted into Mittens followers or haters. Both groups are equally manipulable and knee jerky. That article(now that I've actually looked at it) is probably just him flexing an out of practice(or just straight practice) muscle so to speak.

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he didn't believe a single point that he made or inferred in that entire article.

I think it is a good idea to remove the ability for corporation members to shoot each other. Go hang out in the npc chats and see just how disappointed new players are that they can't get in to corps because of this. most of them will end up leaving.

I've heard a lot of bizarre discussions, including a two hour vitriolic brickfight over what kind of reclining chair is the best,

Please tell me you saved the log....

Wasn't that mittani post a joke?

I don't agree with the notion that it's easy to get into corps today.

The ability to get into a corp of some sort in high-sec does not mean high-sec recruitment has no issues. That is quite the fallacy. Kaarous and whomever else have had little trouble are only a small sample size.

As a whole there is a sentiment of extreme paranoia in regards to high-sec corps, especially industrial ones. While I am only a small sample size myself, I have lived in several different areas of high-sec and have found the vast majority of corps are small (<30 members) and closed for recruitment.

Removing AWOXing might not make the biggest difference to some corps - E-Uni still recruits fine for instance and RvB don't even care about API checks - but there are many others it would. There are many corps that are closed for recruitment today that would open their doors for recruitment if CONCORD evasion was removed from corp mechanics.

The first corp I joined I stayed in for about 9 months and learned a fair bit about the game. It also took 3 weeks to get accepted. When I applied they were at war, and did not want to risk me being an AWOXer for the aggressors. It took 2.5 weeks for the war to finish, at which point they then took another few days doing in-depth research about me. I was then accepted but only because I was exceptionally patient. Most players would not wait 3 weeks.

Perhaps disabling CONCORD evasion requires an NPC tax, as well as a loss of a few corp benefits. This would help keep it balanced.

I don't agree with the notion that it's easy to get into corps today.

The ability to get into a corp of some sort in high-sec does not mean high-sec recruitment has no issues. That is quite the fallacy. Kaarous and whomever else have had little trouble are only a small sample size.

Perhaps disabling CONCORD evasion requires an NPC tax, as well as a loss of a few corp benefits. This would help keep it balanced.

Several things:
1 - screening can only get you so far. If the person is a repeat offender and you let them in, you deserve the AWOX. But someone with a clean character can AWOX just as well.
2 - Removal of the AWOXing pilot is only possible if they are docked.
3 - The Mechanic for neutral reps and boosts need to change as they are currently "untouchable" without concord intervention on their behalf.

I do not think the ability to AWOX should be removed. Or, for that matter, be a bannable offense. It would be better if the ability for green on green combat to be selectable per player. The CEO would be able to mark certain players as non-combatants such as their industrialists. The CEO would also have the ability to kick someone from corp if they were in space, however, they are not removed until 2 hours after their next log on or 2 hours after being kicked if they are currently logged in.

While there is an appeal to remove mutual combat within corps completely due to dueling to allow fit testing, it fails to allow for other forms of testing outside of dueling. Give the CEO the ability to flag someone as non-combat and they become exempt while you can have your PvP corp members test and train with each other.

This could be expanded to even allow Alliance wide combat training in High Sec without CONCORD issues by allowing them to flag members for PvP combat within the alliance against similarly flagged members.

As a whole there is a sentiment of extreme paranoia in regards to high-sec corps, especially industrial ones. While I am only a small sample size myself, I have lived in several different areas of high-sec and have found the vast majority of corps are small (<30 members) and closed for recruitment.

if you are so afraid of awoxers create an alliance with your mains corp. have an alt create a corp join mains alliance recruit into the second corp. all new players are part of your alliance but you cant shoot them.

Just to give you a ballpark for my numbers. Fifty corp entries last month alone. (not even a third of those were successful awoxes, most of them didn't have anything worth blowing up, I was on an Orca hunt)

And that's on one character. With a godawful obvious killboard and a corp history longer than most five year players. And I still kept getting into new corps.

What does that suggest to you, I ask? Since Christmas of last year, when I bought myself another account as a present, I have done this with no less than eight separate characters, one of whom had a name that was an anagram of "player killer".



Aside from neutral reps being untouchable, I think it's balanced fine just now. I have yet to hear an argument for why it's actually a problem besides tearful emotional appeals and the fallacy that it's somehow harmful to genuine newbies.

But on the other hand we have the hallmark of EVE Online, skullduggery, spying, and all round dirty deeds. Why should this all of a sudden be functionally banned in highsec?

Edited response to my post but retained the quotes to clarify who I am responding to.

because players will lazily adopt the easiest defense, i.e not recruitign new players and that is bad for the game health And that trumphs any good thing that could come form allowing corp awoxing.

Except that this has not actually happened on any scale worthy of remark. New characters don't have a problem getting into corps. So no, it does not "trump" anything.

Your argument however is based on an utter fallacy that removing the bizarre (now we have crimewatch 2.0) exception to standard rules turns highsec into an utterly PvP free zone.

So thus far, you haven't presented any argument to need trumping. Just resorted to emotive appeals based on a fabricated construct of your own imagination.

Problem: Awoxing in high-sec crops discourages corps from recruiting new players (due to trust issues, i.e. awoxers in sheep's clothing) which reduces EVE new player retention.

Proposed Solution: Remove the rule that allows corp members to kill each other without CONCORD, etc., repercussions in high-sec. Corp member on corp member combat can happen via the current dueling mechanics, so intra-corp awoxing is redundant.

No, it relies on it being CCP's design intent that you be able to infiltrate, spy on, and assassinate corporations in EVE. Skullduggery and all that.
You are suggesting removing a piece of intended gameplay to combat purely imaginary harm being done to new players. In other words, you are just trying to advance your agenda of a PvP free zone, one piece at a time.
Coming from a carebear, that is rich. I could argue easily, (and I have) that the side presenting this in the first place has no actual argument. Just an emotional appeal about new players, who engender more sympathy, in an attempt to press your agenda.
All based on the fabricated construct that somehow new players aren't able to get into corps.

People should not be fighting a twisting set of rules, this was the whole premise behind crime watch 2.0 rather than the 1.0 system which was highly confusing for everyone involved and had all sorts of little loop holes.

Either way, there are certainly exploits that need fixing in the current system, no matter which fix gets applied.

Except then we get back to twisting piles of LE timers which destroys the whole point of Crimewatch 2.0 simplifying the system.

Also there is no LE timer when shooting inside corp, which is what causes neutral logi to break. As if there was a LE timer then the logi would turn suspect.

Is it the only loophole that exists because of the inside corp mechanics.

Likely not also, which is why I am in favour of removing the inside corp exception to concord as the simplest method of fixing all possible loop holes.

*snipped* Lots of things to defend his honey pot

You're missing the entire point of this thread. The idea is a change CCP can make to increase the ease in which players can engage in social activities and get out of the NPC corps.

Lets put it this way. High Sec in an NPC corp is the highest security possible. High sec in a Player Corp is semi-low/nullish in that you can get AWOXed and War Dec'd and the aggressor has absolutely no consequence to taking this action in "High Security" space.

So how do you suppose we get players to corp up in high sec with these mechanics still in place?

Don't sacrifice the game because of "Principles". Resisting a change that will increase the health of the game because it will impact your play style is very much that.

"New Players need to HTFU"

Then go play a different game.

This is your answer to how CCP can increase new player retention?
You'd be an amazing Entrepreneur, no doubt....

If you really want to incentivize new players to get out of NPC corps

You're making the mistake of thinking that EVE actually needs the kind of "player" who so rabidly avoids what you call "free kill" (more like any percent possiblity of PvP greater than zero) mechanics.

EVE allows for and encourages non consensual PvP. It is pretty much the lynchpin of the game, one of the core design philosophies of EVE.

If that's a deal breaker for them then those people will leave eventually anyway. People like that quitting is a good thing.

No one is saying that eve needs that.

Also you are avoiding the main issue, it is not the noobs that are afraid of pvp, its the VETERANS that are in their corps and do not accept new players because they fear they might just be awoxers.

So potentially great new players are kept away from corps and get stuck into NPC or self owned single man corps that basically doom them into becoming a carebear.

I've been playing only for five months, but it-¦s precisely its "roughness / complexity" what keeps me login.

I have tried other MMOs but I felt corseted: "do not do this, you can not kill that, etc ..." as someone said before:

EVE is as it is, take it or leave it.

The problem is that -10 characters or other low sec status characters can operate ships and attack people in high security space.

When a character who has aggressed concord undocks or boards a ship, his ship is barred from warping. If concord can do that, then there is no reason the same can't be applied to an outlaw who undocks or boards a ship in high security space. He should be barred from warping or activating weapons.

Here, I'll demonstrate.

All new players are not created equal. The goal should not be to try and get as many paying subs as possible, it should be to retain as many high quality players as possible. Those are the people who will stay. The goal should not be to make the 50% who quit a smaller number. **** them, they're not suited to EVE anyway.

The goal should be to make the 10% a bigger number. To get the right kind of people playing the game, to show them the things that the people who stay end up seeing.

This is the kind of player that EVE needs:




This is the kind of player EVE does NOT need. Not only the kind of player whose quitting is no real loss, but the kind of player who should be actively discouraged from playing EVE at all:



Make sense yet?

You're making the mistake of thinking that EVE actually needs the kind of "player" who so rabidly avoids what you call "free kill" (more like any percent possiblity of PvP greater than zero) mechanics.

EVE allows for and encourages non consensual PvP. It is pretty much the lynchpin of the game, one of the core design philosophies of EVE.

If that's a deal breaker for them then those people will leave eventually anyway. People like that quitting is a good thing.

There have been many things said. It'd be a hassle to pick through everything and get the important bits so let's just do this.

1: An individual mentioned something about the fact that people will take the easiest route of shutting off corp recruitment, which restricts new players, which trumps any benefit of awoxing.

Not true. Because I joined a corp with an open door policy as a new player awoxing was a part of my early Eve experience. It helped me get a perspective on the dynamic gameplay Eve has to offer and got me excited to try new and interesting things. Before that I was grinding out SOE missions.

2: Someone said something about not all types of players are needed in Eve.

Completely false. I started out thinking that the most interesting activity for me would be mining. Now I do anything I want, when I want, and none of it is mining. I don't blow up a lot of ships or get a lot of ships blown up but I interact with plenty of people who're very hostile, and I have a hell of a lot of fun doing it. If you think that some people are cut out for Eve and others are not, you are sorely mistaken. How new players experience Eve and how they are encouraged by their peers to interact with those experiences makes the player.

3: Lots of talk about how Awoxing and war deccing driving new players off, because they simply can't cope.

Nope. I coped just fine, even when both were occurring simultaneously along with spies from the war-deccers. It's all about how your corpfellows treat the situation. There were a lot of people within my alliance that said "Oh noes! Time to dock and go play minecraft!" and then there were some of them that said "Blow that noise, let's go get them, and if we can't win the fight lets at least have fun wasting their time baiting them since they're wasting ours." And lo, slowly but surely attitudes started to change. More members started applying for the PvP branch of the alliance and people not only actively participated in the wars, but eagerly enjoyed any role, minor or major, they got to play in them.

I've said it time and again and I will play this harp until the strings break. The problem isn't the mechanics, it's the community. On both sides. People who fill new players' heads with FUD are just as bad as the griefers.

I agree with all your points,except that CCP are as much to blame. My post above clarifies what is the core issue, that if resolved, the others just pale into minor annoyances.

Good corpmates help with the losses too.

2: Someone said something about not all types of players are needed in Eve.

Completely false. I started out thinking that the most interesting activity for me would be mining. Now I do anything I want, when I want, and none of it is mining. I don't blow up a lot of ships or get a lot of ships blown up but I interact with plenty of people who're very hostile, and I have a hell of a lot of fun doing it. If you think that some people are cut out for Eve and others are not, you are sorely mistaken. How new players experience Eve and how they are encouraged by their peers to interact with those experiences makes the player.

You're making the mistake of thinking that EVE actually needs the kind of "player" who so rabidly avoids what you call "free kill" (more like any percent possiblity of PvP greater than zero) mechanics.

EVE allows for and encourages non consensual PvP. It is pretty much the lynchpin of the game, one of the core design philosophies of EVE.

If that's a deal breaker for them then those people will leave eventually anyway. People like that quitting is a good thing.

Theories behind what consent for PvP is.

3: Lots of talk about how Awoxing and war deccing driving new players off, because they simply can't cope.

Nope. I coped just fine

Highsec needs to be made less rewarding not less safe. Removing things like exploration sites and increasing belt spawn times (on the premise of empire security and their own mining fleets) would go much further in pushing people out. It's not enough to wave a corrot you have to starve the player as well such that they consume them selves out of the food chain.

I speak from experience irl I was forced to move country to make a living not just because the money was better but also because I was staring down the double gun barrels of boredom and poverty.

Just because it was fine for You, you assume it's fine for everyone. Yeah ok, that makes sense.

However, then we come back to those numbers 50/40/10.
Obviously you'd fall in the 10%. I guess you weren't a good gauge of player sentiment after all.

With the introduction of the dueling mechanics, there is no reason for the ability to freely shoot corpies. Only people who think there is are griefers looking for easy kills.

The stereotyping among Eve players is always so spectacularly self-aggrandizing. Thank you for openly admitting to belonging to that FUD crowd I was referring to earlier.

It doesn't take much effort at all to completely shut down an awoxer, nor is it hard to turn the tables on them and relieve them of their ship. The only easy kills they get are afk miners and people who just randomly fleet up with other people they don't know because Green.

"Awoxing" has been a thing since MMO's have existed. In UO PKers would just poison cloud everyone in the middle of a tough PvE fight and TP off to a nearby safe point. In Everquest people would get really brutal, pulling an entire zone of monsters down on your head in an area where they knew your corpses would glitch through the ground and all of your gear would be lost, causing everyone to lose months of hard work. Hell, I used to play a text-based MMO called Gemstone III back in the day. Guild members would lay low and roleplay their way through months of personal interaction for the chance to set up the ultimate story of betrayal and assassination, in a game with a random chance of permadeath, in a world that will forever define the word "grind" for me in the context of MMO's.

You know what my issue with Awoxers is? It's too easy for them to hide from retribution. They drop to an NPC corp and sit in high sec and suddenly no one can retaliate against them. That's the only "easy" part of awoxing, is the fact that you can't hunt them down. If I were to ask for one change to be made on Awoxing it's that any corp member that kills another corp member gives kill rights to the entire corporation for the standard 30 days.

And yes, it is possible for a corporation to get kill rights. Grab a noob ship and go shoot a random POCO in high sec if you want to see for yourself.

Yeah bro. I'm a FUD. HTFU, cuz you obviously know nothing about how I play the game and you can't bother to look. I live and breathe in lowsec. So a corp member, or anyone for that matter, shooting me doesn't matter.

there is no reason for the ability to freely shoot corpies

That, however, does. There is no reason to not have the ability to freely shoot a corp member. Eve is about giving players the freedom of choice, and one of the many decisions a player can make is deciding that their current bedfellows have been rubbing them the wrong way and that a good podding is in order.

Do people take advantage of this? Sure, but no more than they take advantage of everything else in Eve. But if you think random people who you thought you were allied with attacking you is annoying just wait until you find out how obnoxious human beings can be when they think that they are protected from any sort of retaliation by being an utter passive-aggressive twit. Did you read that part about EQ? Non-PvP servers. The more obstacles you put in someone's path of making a choice, the more ways they find to navigate around that obstacle.

Getting flagged for shooting a corpie? Great, I'll just wait until I have corpmates or fleetmates repping me, so that the logi gets flagged, along with anyone else that was being repped in the chain. If I was an awoxer I'd know plenty of people who enjoy the same activities I do, so there'd be plenty of people waiting for that flashing yellow box when it happens. You just created a way for an awoxer to wipe an entire fleet of friendlies with one shot.

Regarding your first paragraph, there is a good reason to not have the ability. Because it is an exception from the standard rule set. And as an exception it firstly requires in depth knowledge of the game that the exception even exists, since exceptions by their very nature are hidden knowledge and hidden knowledge is bad.

Thirdly, removing the free shoot does NOT remove PvP. It just means you don't get a free pass.

PvP does not need to be made harder. PvP as a concept has been assailed and handcuffed by you and yours for a decade.

You don't get to justify your ridiculous buffs to your already nearly perfect safety with such hyperbolic language as "free pass", either.

It's only a free pass if the stupid idiots don't bother to defend themselves. People who don't bother to defend themselves SHOULD be dying.

Stop trying to take PvP out of highsec bit by bit. Because we both know that if you get what you want, you aren't stopping there. No safety besides 100% will satisfy the likes of you carebear scum.

And that, is what the bear philosophy, whether you're a carebear or a nullbear, boils down to:

rejection of risk.

Without risk, you remove literally half of what EVE is about, and half of EVE isn't an EVE that's worth playing in my opinion. I feel pretty secure in adding that I believe a majority of players who have actually left highsec for any substantial amount of time understands that the game revolves around a fairly well designed system of risk vs reward, and want it to stay that way.

Im doing some quick research on corps that disallow trial accounts/very young players to join them.

If you wouldnt mind answering, all i wish to know is: WHY you do not take applications from Trial accounts/very young players?

Thanks very much

Several reasons
1. A player with more SP has more invested and more likely to stick around
2. Not really interested in training the basics after over 5 years in game.
3. A toon with a history is less likely to be a spy
4. Just not interested in growth for the sake of growth.

I'm sure i could come up with more valid reasons but its been a long day ;)

1) Because we don't know if you are going to stick with the game after the trial is over and you have to Pay to play.
2) Also generaly a trial account has very low Skill Points. and very low standings.

well,

I'm not sure if anyone answered you, but basically it is very easy for a rival alliance to create a character and want to install it in our alliance in order to gather information. Also, the requirements we have for fleet doctrines and small gang ships require a minimum skillset that there is no way a 14 day trial.... or anyone with really less that 10m SP is going to have.

So why are you doing this research? In our case we do not want new or trial accounts for a number or reasons. First off they are easy to create and have no history making them a risk for us due to spies and such. Second we are a pvp alliance, we do not have the time nor the will to teach you what you are suppose to be doing in null. We require our members to be self-sufficient and pvp ready and in most cases a new player and in all cases a trial account are unable to fulfil that requirement. We do look at every app on a case by case basis and if for some reason a low sp toon does look to be someone that could be an asset to the corp we will not reject them just due to sp.

there are many reasons most corps not only ours that don't except applications
1. age
reason most corps want to know that they are playing with matured individuals that can follow instructions and obey all rules of not only the corp but eula as well
2. most corps donnot accept trail accounts because the player cannot train skills need to improve their charracter; plus there is no guareentee that the player will continue the game once their trail account is up.
3. most corps will not accept new applications during wardecs for security reasons.
4. some corps put skill levels aka skillpoints a new applicant must have

i hope this gives some reasons why application to join corps are not accepted.

because ive had trail account join and after there trail is up they never come back

Risk for whom exactly though. No risk is removed here. It's shifted to be more centralised between the two sides since any risk removed from the target is added to the ganker instead.

-snip-

There is already hardly any risk of being Awoxed, and a whole lot of unnecessary fear about it happening. There is no reason to "shift" any risk which is just about as large of a crock of dung as I've ever heard. Awoxers only get to do their deed in an environment where corp members are not acting like corp members. They're off solo in a mine field 20 jumps away, or blitzing missions with a window covering up corp chat, and completely ignoring the fact that they joined the corporation so that if events like this do happen, they've got backup.

Awoxers are a scared bunch. I haven't seen one with enough sand to make a move on a corpie unless they are the only two corpmates in the constellation. As soon as someone fits up in a PvP ship and comes looking for them they're either running or logging. There is hardly any risk posed by Awoxers, and they're only as lazy as their prey. People make it easy for them so they get easy kills. And if you ask them, this is typically why they do it. They think it's hilarious that people get so lazy and complacent, and then flip a table when their complacency costs them a ship.

Prove to me there is something to be worried about in the first place, and then you can try to come up with a reasonable discussion about whether or not it is a problem and if it should be fixed.

You talk of rejection of risk. Well who is trying to lower their risk more? The Awoxer or the carebear?

The whole reason corp members have the ability to shoot each other is so they can actually practice PvP without Concord interference. With the new dueling mechanics that ability is no longer needed. If corp member A wished to shoot corp member B, then he can send them a duel request and they can go to town on each other.

Awoxers are abusing the old mechanic simply for easy kills and low risk. Not to mention an Awoxer can easily keep from being kicked from the corp by logging off in space. So basically one experienced guy can shut down an entire newb indy mining corp who has no idea about the mechanic. Awoxing is the lowest form of PvP in the game. I can see ganking. Those guys are taking a risk. They kill you, Concord kills them, and they take a sec status hit. Awoxers are just being risk-averse pvpers.


Bottomline: Once Dueling was introduced, the ability to shoot corp members freely became unneeded.

Now if someone can explain to me why it is needed, other than it lowers the risk to carebears in highsec, please tell my why.

Such as, warping away in the middle of a fleet/gang fight, fleeting up with opposition and providing a warp-in, not repping their fleetmates in fight if they are logi, etc.

Not to mention an Awoxer can easily keep from being kicked from the corp by logging off in space.

Or you could do basic screenings and introduce newbies to basic API checks. Employment history alone should give you a ball park estimate on SP, and API requirements are hardly anything new and quite common. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to filter out a majority of undesirables with a full access API. Any player that has a problem with giving out their API either doesn't understand how an API works or isn't a desired part of your team.

So in essence.

Edit: Can't believe I forgot this. Killboards, killboards, killboards. Perhaps your single most useful tool for gathering intel.

Because its so hard to open a new account with zero history...

@ Nevyn:

Seeing you backpedal that hard was hilarious.

"Grr exceptions to the ruleset!" "except the ones I like".

That made me laugh. Thanks for showing everyone that this is not about new players, it's about your personal opinion and nothing else.

No, Concord is not an exception to the rule set. No matter how often you bleat that it is, it doesn't make it an exception. It is part of high security rules.

Sorry you aren't understanding the fact different sectors of space can have different rules without being exceptions.

So is being able to shoot your corp mates. No matter how much you bleat about it, it is intended gameplay.

trail accounts, have not commited to playing the game.
very young accts this is eve everyone is a spy.

Awoxing is something players extended it to beyond the design intent, even if it is still valid.

@ Nevyn:

Seeing you backpedal that hard was hilarious.

"Grr exceptions to the ruleset!" "except the ones I like".

That made me laugh. Thanks for showing everyone that this is not about new players, it's about your personal opinion and nothing else.

Does the title need to be changed to properly reflect the contents

Does the title need to be changed to properly reflect the contents

Intended Gameplay does not mean it is not an exception to the rules of High sec however. Again, nowhere have I said it's not currently intended gameplay, though I highly doubt neutral Logi getting no flags is intended game play.
What I have said is that it is a bad form of complexity now that we have Crimewatch 2.0 & have enabled a lot of alternative methods, since the game play was initially enabled to allow live testing of fits. Awoxing is something players extended it to beyond the design intent, even if it is still valid.
So awoxing is not a good reason to keep bad complexity when it will still be possible to gank corp mates in a number of other ways than flag free combat. When it was designed we had a terrible 1.0 system of Crimewatch which was twisty turney and virtually un-understandable how flags propagated and which did and which didn't. Now we have a clear system, except in a few murky cases of which awoxing is one. And that Murk should be removed one way or another to keep the system clear.

Because its so hard to open a new account with zero history...

Sweet, and that accomplishes what precisely? A scrub that can awox in a rookie frig. What ever.

a couple days to catalyst then let the havoc commence.

There's nothing stopping corps from recruiting new players beyond their own paranoia. Removing the ability to shoot greens will only further reduce the ability of newbie trainers of training their newbies in simple tactics like how best to approach a target to tackle it. If you have to start a duel every time you want to teach something, this will get tedious and annoying. What happens when the duel timer runs out and your still teaching?

So, no. The system works as it is. Last I checked, it wasn't difficult for a ceo/director to kick someone from a corp for being an awoxer.

And Bohneik Itohn....
'You can't shoot someone without a flag in Highsec without getting Concorded EXCEPT IF they are a corp member'
That is the very definition of an exception.

You can shoot whomever you want in EVE Online, EXCEPT in highsec.

Remove CONCORD is the answer, clearly.

Yea, already answered that one. But if you want to keep on that daft hobby horse go for it, if it ever happens you can enjoy the EVE Online that results with your 10 remaining buddies.