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eliminator2
Moretsu pirates Bad-Intentions
3
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Posted - 2014.07.15 16:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
ok so just wondering is it me or does the eagle seem abit underpowered for a HAC i mean yea decent defence but offence seems abit meh. I'd like to hear everyone else view on the eagle as a pvp ship v other hacs |
Xylem Viliana
Protomonolithic
198
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Posted - 2014.07.15 17:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Eagle is a bit of an oddball in a way, it looks like it could be pretty good with being a bit tough due to bonus's (4% per HAC level to shield resistance) but its only damage bonus comes from HAC skill at 5% per level (this is from memory so might not be correct) the opti bonus is nice and would make it lean towards being a sniper however the Naga does it better at half the cost.
While I "could" fly the eagle I dont see any real reason to other than RP issues but im sure there are people out there (there must be) that have used the eagle and can perhaps enlighten me and TC a bit. either that or i could just test it i guess but I have other things to do. |
eliminator2
Moretsu pirates Bad-Intentions
3
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Posted - 2014.07.15 17:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
yea i use the moa right now does the job and has more dps just abit less tank but oh well its alot cheaper |
Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2014.07.15 17:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's a slow ****** that has no drones (don't trust the visible dronebay, it's just deception). It could be a pretty good fleet ship, but the Sentry Ishtar and Rail Tengu do the expensive sniping better. Also the cheaper and tankier Ferox and Naga don't help. |
Dvesk Sunie
C.Q.B
34
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Posted - 2014.07.15 22:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Those who state that eagle is a bad fleet ship probably haven't seen rail eagle which can hit up to 140km and do almost 400dps. Now combine this with 85%++ resists across field and basis and Balex sac fleet can only hope to tickle it. Eagle is the underdog as a HAC fleet ship. People still think rails are ****. Do the math, check EFT, rail eagle fleet can not be kited,with webs on field they can not be brawled. It has one of the highest buffer tank compared to other HACs and damage projection is instant, easy to manage and effective. DARK PRIME DEFENCE OFFICE
Stop playing eve, start living it
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Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2014.07.15 22:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
You're in luck, I have some time to lose !
http://imgur.com/3Y17qQu http://imgur.com/8hlyCQc
I'll let you guess the color (hint, the eagle is bottom)
Quickly made sub optimal fit but it show the problem discussed. Armor Ishtar for the sake of having its tank close-ish to eagle level.
The eagle could use a double damage mod actualy. It would lose its niche but it's not that good in this niche to begin with. Or more PG/CPU. Or some speed. Or a drone bay. Or more shield HP. |
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
56
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Posted - 2014.07.15 23:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
What's the raw DPS/HP of a heavy blaster Eagle? Provided you could fit neutrons, I think it'd be decent. |
Jazmyn Stone
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
163
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Posted - 2014.07.16 00:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
eliminator2 wrote:yea i use the moa right now does the job and has more dps just abit less tank but oh well its alot cheaper
Yes, the Moa actually does have more dps, even without using it's 3 drones.
My Moa:
5x250mm Rails T2, Caldari antimatter, 4xMFS II . . . 542dps
My Eagle:
5x250mm Rails T2, Caldari antimatter, 4xMFS II . . . 521dps
However, my Moa has a fall-off range within 33km, and optimal range within 37km. My Eagle, has a fall-off range of 52km, and optimal range within 37km.
Hope that helps
-Jaz Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
430
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Posted - 2014.07.16 01:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's the poor-man's Rail Tengu and does a pretty good job of it for about half the cost, but Ishtars exist so it's hard to find a reason to fly anything else in that weight class and especially things that shoot kin/therm damage since it means they're going to have an even rougher time dealing with Ishtars themselves.
If Ishtars were vaguely balanced Rail Eagles would be a solid mid-level fleet. |
Deerin
Federal Navy Special Forces
264
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Posted - 2014.07.16 05:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Odithia wrote:You're in luck, I have some time to lose ! http://imgur.com/3Y17qQuhttp://imgur.com/8hlyCQcI'll let you guess the color (hint, the eagle is bottom) Quickly made sub optimal fit but it show the problem discussed. Armor Ishtar for the sake of having its tank close-ish to eagle level. The eagle could use a double damage mod actualy. It would lose its niche but it's not that good in this niche to begin with. Or more PG/CPU. Or some speed. Or a drone bay. Or more shield HP.
You are neglecting tracking and lower gun signature, which is the reason to actually use eagle.
Rail Eagle is a bad solo ship, but a very nice fleet ship.
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Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2014.07.16 08:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Deerin wrote:
You are neglecting tracking and lower gun signature, which is the reason to actually use eagle.
Rail Eagle is a bad solo ship, but a very nice fleet ship.
This link show damages against an Ishtar with maximum transversal. http://imgur.com/8hlyCQc
This link show damage against an ishtar with maximum transversal and MWD ON. http://imgur.com/aC8BCUv
Versus a frigate, the eagle win ! |
eliminator2
Moretsu pirates Bad-Intentions
3
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Posted - 2014.07.16 08:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
nice to see alot of views for the eagle
it seems to be decent using rails and long range but sadly i like my close range in ur face brawler ships so will make a pass lol XD |
Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2014.07.16 11:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:What's the raw DPS/HP of a heavy blaster Eagle? Provided you could fit neutrons, I think it'd be decent. http://imgur.com/N7NvbVg
Could try something like that. 11km falloff with antimater but it's just 458 DPS at optimal. |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
450
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Posted - 2014.07.16 12:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote: If Ishtars were vaguely balanced Rail Eagles would be a solid mid-level fleet.
Not
Empty
Quoting |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
517
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Posted - 2014.07.16 16:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Odithia wrote:You're in luck, I have some time to lose ! http://imgur.com/3Y17qQuhttp://imgur.com/8hlyCQcI'll let you guess the color (hint, the eagle is bottom) Quickly made sub optimal fit but it show the problem discussed. Armor Ishtar for the sake of having its tank close-ish to eagle level. The eagle could use a double damage mod actualy. It would lose its niche but it's not that good in this niche to begin with. Or more PG/CPU. Or some speed. Or a drone bay. Or more shield HP.
It's a ship i hate/hated. Still, there is no one better at killing tacklers and pods than the guy from my alliance who has 200million SP in Caldari (Who flies it instead of an ishtar). A combination of the Sig-Rad of the guns and there tracking speed is makes it optimal for this.
Also Sentry drones are getting old in fleets - stealth bomber alts are prolific now. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
669
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Posted - 2014.07.16 22:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Eagle is going to look really nice after the HAC rebalance.
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GreenSeed
1057
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Posted - 2014.07.17 04:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:The Eagle is going to look really nice after the HAC rebalance. did they do that already?
oh wait, i see what you did there... |
Deerin
Federal Navy Special Forces
264
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 05:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Odithia wrote:Deerin wrote:
You are neglecting tracking and lower gun signature, which is the reason to actually use eagle.
Rail Eagle is a bad solo ship, but a very nice fleet ship.
This link show damages against an Ishtar with maximum transversal. http://imgur.com/8hlyCQcThis link show damage against an ishtar with maximum transversal and MWD ON. http://imgur.com/aC8BCUvVersus a frigate, the eagle win !
So it is actually balanced vs a naga somehow for cruiser size combat, and superior in long range anti tackler duty.
Ishtar though, is another beast.....and that's a problem with ishtar. Not Eagle.
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Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
172
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Posted - 2014.07.17 06:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
ask NC. http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
210
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 12:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
I want to like them, I really do. But every time I fit one, there's a ship that is better.
Blaster ship: Deimos Mid range DPS: ishtar Long range DPS: ishtar/naga/potentially cerb for damage selection. Extreme ranges: no point
Sure, it has a sturdy tank, but that's not enough for me to use it. It's just outshone by something else at every level everywhere else.
It's annoying because I REALLY like it, I'd just like to be able to use it and not feel I'd be a greater asset in a different ship. Is be flying it in spite of itself. |
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Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
afkalt wrote:I want to like them, I really do. But every time I fit one, there's a ship that is better.
Blaster ship: Deimos Mid range DPS: ishtar Long range DPS: ishtar/naga/potentially cerb for damage selection. Extreme ranges: no point
Sure, it has a sturdy tank, but that's not enough for me to use it. It's just outshone by something else at every level everywhere else.
It's annoying because I REALLY like it, I'd just like to be able to use it and not feel I'd be a greater asset in a different ship. I'd be flying it in spite of itself.
Quoting because I'm basically in the same boat. No pun intended, just a matter of vernacular. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
438
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Don't use the Cerberus for long range. Yes, it can hit out to ~140km with good skills, but you are never going to break any kind of meaningful reps when redboxing someone is like putting in a two-weeks notice that you're going to shoot them. Hell, at that range a Battleship could just pulse it's MWD and warp out with time to spare.
Nagas are better as raw gun platforms but fold over quickly in the face of return fire and are very vulnerable to bombs.
The Eagle's combination of solid DPS with good projection and phenomenal EHP really does make it a remarkable line ship for midsized fleets that don't want to go full-hog and bust out Tengus. The real problem, as your post highlights indirectly, is that there really isn't anything short of a Battleship or a T3 that competes with Ishtars. |
eliminator2
Moretsu pirates Bad-Intentions
4
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Posted - 2014.07.18 08:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
maybe if they tweek the damage a little and give it a small drone bay for some light drones it would make it a decent ship but maybe with tank to overpowered?
not like you carnt catch the thing though unlike a ishtar been pretty hard to catch with its nanoing about lol |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
150
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Posted - 2014.07.18 18:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
As a well-trained and well-experienced railgun and blaster pilot, I love the Eagle.
Despite my love for the platform, I never fly it anymore because, as mentioned above, for every role you can think to fly an Eagle in there is a better ship for that role. The closest it comes to a truly unique role anymore is mid-to-long-range anti-frigate sniper, but a Ferox will fill that role almost as well for a lot less, and it gains the benefit of being able to use a MJD or warfare links.
Until something is done about the Sentry Ishtar, the Eagle will always be a second-rate HAC. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
440
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 18:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'm not convined the Eagle needs to get better. It's definitely on par with the Zealot in terms of fleet viability, and AHACs are still doing fine last I checked. The Ishtar just needs to get worse so that everything else in its weight class can have a niche. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
150
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 18:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:I'm not convined the Eagle needs to get better. It's definitely on par with the Zealot in terms of fleet viability, and AHACs are still doing fine last I checked. The Ishtar just needs to get worse so that everything else in its weight class can have a niche. Yup. The problem with the Eagle isn't the Eagle, it's the Sentry Ishtar. If the Sentry Ishtar couldn't hit out to 100km+, brawl, and kite all in the same fit, the Eagle would be far more viable. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
213
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 21:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dvesk Sunie wrote:Those who state that eagle is a bad fleet ship probably haven't seen rail eagle which can hit up to 140km and do almost 400dps. Now combine this with 85%++ resists across field and basis and Balex sac fleet can only hope to tickle it. Eagle is the underdog as a HAC fleet ship. People still think rails are ****. Do the math, check EFT, rail eagle fleet can not be kited,with webs on field they can not be brawled. It has one of the highest buffer tank compared to other HACs and damage projection is instant, easy to manage and effective.
You dont get 400 dps out of spike. You dont get that range without sacrificing tank.
Eagle is crap. Why CCP, and all their brilliance, would put a reistance bonus next to 2 optimal bonuses, that only work for one weapon system (rails) is beyond reason. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2014.07.19 22:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Well, it can do 400DPS and hit out to silly ranges - just not both at once. And not with a tank that is more than average.
400DPS is antimatter and that is at ranges ishtars are pushing over 600, whilst being faster and almost as tanky.
Bring it in to point blank and you want a Deimos, extend the range to anything inside max sentry range and you STILL want an Ishtar and over that range: hello on grid probing, +/- 10km
I actually agree with others, the problem IS the Ishtar, but any threads about it are getting locked as they are non-constructive so....yeah. |
eliminator2
Pirates With Wings Bad-Intentions
6
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Posted - 2014.07.19 22:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
maybe make the ishtar drone bonus to medium and small drones
hell i use ishtar and its overpowered with been able to use sentries and heavies if nocked to just meds and light maybe they wont be as good and be inline with other HACs |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
442
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 00:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Well, it can do 400DPS and hit out to silly ranges - just not both at once - needs an ammo change And not with a tank that is more than average.
400DPS is antimatter and that is at ranges ishtars are pushing over 600, whilst being faster and almost as tanky.
Bring it in to point blank and you want a Deimos, extend the range to anything inside max sentry range and you STILL want an Ishtar and over that range: hello on grid probing, +/- 10km
I actually agree with others, the problem IS the Ishtar, but any threads about it are getting locked as they are non-constructive so....yeah.
A bricked out AB Fleet Eagle can hit 110k EHP before boosts or heat while doing 480 dps at 40km. Nothing else in the HAC weight class comes close to that resilience and the damage output is solidly on par with anything that isn't a broken piece of ****. You aren't especially mobile but you are tremendous bricks that can put out respectable damage to most practical engagement ranges for your weight class, so just warp in at 40 and duke it out.
Don't try to build it into some 150km+ Spike platform because it's not really built for it and Spike isn't good enough to build ships around anyways. |
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