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Zatho
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Posted - 2006.07.01 08:36:00 -
[1]
Hi,
There were a few forums I could've posted this on but I thought this one would be the most appropriate. Apologies if I'm wrong.
I'm a 3 day old Achura (because of the attributes) and I've decided I'm specializing in Minmatar ships, or more specifically the Vagabond. I know it's a long path but I'm looking for some guidance. My sole reason to play is to PVP, what form of PVP I'm unsure of, I just know it won't be in a huge fleet of 100s of ships. I've no preference between gang or solo but I'll be doing a bit of both.
Firstly, are there any bottleneck skills (besides the required ones to sit in it) I'd be needing before I even considered about undocking?
I'm aware of the following:
Tech 2 Medium Autocannons Supporting gunnery skills (Rapid Firing, Surgical Strike etc.) MWD Supporting Navigation skills (cap reduction for MWD use, MWD speed etc.) Energy Systems Operation 4 / Energy Management 4 Medium Nos (tech 2?)
More questions I have:
What ship should I fly before I'm ready for a Vaga? I'll be looking at building on my PVP skills (as a player, not skillpoints) well before I step foot in a Vagabond. I know there's a general logic needed for PVP that can be gained in any ship but what would I be more suited with as a potential Vaga pilot between the Rupture and Stabber?
Which tank should I choose in the beginning between Armor and Shield?
I'll no doubt be getting all of the supporting skills I need to level 4 as soon as I can. But once they're done which level 5's would you say are more important for a Vaga? Cap skills? Surgical Strike/Rapid Firing? MWD speed/cap use? I'm missing more I'm sure, but if someone could let me know what their opinion is of which are more important (and less important) I'd greatly appreciate it.
Is Trajectory Analysis more important than Sharpshooter? As far as I can see Autocannons operate in falloff so I'd be better off with TA.
Is the Vagabond actually a good ship to specialise in? I'm looking for a signature ship in the long run, if possible I'd like to fly nothing but that ship. I realise the Vaga is expensive.
Being an expensive ship, and only having decent skills in Minmatar cruisers, am I crippled for making ISK?
Are there any essential Vagabond pilot videos I should watch? :)
Thanks a lot in advance, I realise my post is probably too long for the average attention span (mine included, what am I on about?!?) but I'd much appreciate some advice.
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DarkElf
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Posted - 2006.07.01 09:23:00 -
[2]
Well i don't fly vagas but have killed a few and can tell you that they're all down to piloting skill. they can die so quick in the hands of the wrong pilot or be deadly with the right one. I'd suggest grabbing a stabber before u get there to learn how to fly it. cyclone would also be a good choice before u get to the vaga.
DE
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.07.01 10:00:00 -
[3]
Fly a stabber for a while first.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.07.01 10:17:00 -
[4]
Originally by: DarkElf Well i don't fly vagas but have killed a few and can tell you that they're all down to piloting skill. they can die so quick in the hands of the wrong pilot or be deadly with the right one. I'd suggest grabbing a stabber before u get there to learn how to fly it. cyclone would also be a good choice before u get to the vaga.
DE
What similarities does the Cyclone have with the Vagabond? I would say Stabber is a much better choice myself.
--- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.07.01 10:31:00 -
[5]
Learn how to use WCS. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
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DarkElf
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Posted - 2006.07.01 10:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DarkElf Well i don't fly vagas but have killed a few and can tell you that they're all down to piloting skill. they can die so quick in the hands of the wrong pilot or be deadly with the right one. I'd suggest grabbing a stabber before u get there to learn how to fly it. cyclone would also be a good choice before u get to the vaga.
DE
What similarities does the Cyclone have with the Vagabond? I would say Stabber is a much better choice myself.
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
DE
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Vurg
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Posted - 2006.07.01 11:05:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Vurg on 01/07/2006 11:04:53 Well, I don't know about any vaga piloting advice myself, but lock and load 1 and 2 are very good vaga videos, imo.
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Oddly enough, something about the idea of a naked crying girl, if I know it ISN'T my fault, turns me on.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.07.01 11:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: DarkElf
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
Thats fine, but they are not very similar ships. Stabber and vagabond are similar to fly. Cyclone and vagabond are not. Same weapons, yes, but come on...its not the same experience to fly at all. Cyclone is a brick and stabber is like a race car.
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
--- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.07.01 12:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DarkElf
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
Thats fine, but they are not very similar ships. Stabber and vagabond are similar to fly. Cyclone and vagabond are not. Same weapons, yes, but come on...its not the same experience to fly at all. Cyclone is a brick and stabber is like a race car.
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
And I am in my Moa with 15M SP. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.07.01 12:51:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/07/2006 12:52:07
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
And I am in my Moa with 15M SP.
Wanna duel? --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
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Divus
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Posted - 2006.07.01 13:04:00 -
[11]
the path is Minmatar Assault Ship, including t2 small guns, fallowed by Heavy Assault with t2 medium guns. the thing is ull need maxed out shield-tanking skills. u can skip armor tanking skills (shieldtank a jaguar etc.) plus u'll want some t2 drones in your vaga. musta be boring to skip bc and bs but this the fastest way imho
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.07.01 13:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/07/2006 12:52:07
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
And I am in my Moa with 15M SP.
Wanna duel?
Sure. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Kresh Vladir
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Posted - 2006.07.01 14:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DarkElf
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
Thats fine, but they are not very similar ships. Stabber and vagabond are similar to fly. Cyclone and vagabond are not. Same weapons, yes, but come on...its not the same experience to fly at all. Cyclone is a brick and stabber is like a race car.
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
And I am in my Moa with 15M SP.
im in a vexor w/ 18m
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DarkElf
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Posted - 2006.07.01 14:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DarkElf
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
Thats fine, but they are not very similar ships. Stabber and vagabond are similar to fly. Cyclone and vagabond are not. Same weapons, yes, but come on...its not the same experience to fly at all. Cyclone is a brick and stabber is like a race car.
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
Couldn't agree more. for vaga training go stabber.
Oh and 26mil SP and still in a domi
DE
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.07.01 14:50:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 01/07/2006 14:50:32
Originally by: Kresh Vladir
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DarkElf
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
Thats fine, but they are not very similar ships. Stabber and vagabond are similar to fly. Cyclone and vagabond are not. Same weapons, yes, but come on...its not the same experience to fly at all. Cyclone is a brick and stabber is like a race car.
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
And I am in my Moa with 15M SP.
im in a vexor w/ 18m
Sighs and all the n00bs with 3M to 8M SP skilling for HACs. Too much ISKs they have. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Scake
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Posted - 2006.07.01 15:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 01/07/2006 14:50:32
Originally by: Kresh Vladir
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DarkElf
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
Thats fine, but they are not very similar ships. Stabber and vagabond are similar to fly. Cyclone and vagabond are not. Same weapons, yes, but come on...its not the same experience to fly at all. Cyclone is a brick and stabber is like a race car.
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
And I am in my Moa with 15M SP.
im in a vexor w/ 18m
Sighs and all the n00bs with 3M to 8M SP skilling for HACs. Too much ISKs they have.
5mill sp here and in a kessie
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DarkElf
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Posted - 2006.07.01 15:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 01/07/2006 14:50:32
Originally by: Kresh Vladir
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DarkElf
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
Thats fine, but they are not very similar ships. Stabber and vagabond are similar to fly. Cyclone and vagabond are not. Same weapons, yes, but come on...its not the same experience to fly at all. Cyclone is a brick and stabber is like a race car.
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
And I am in my Moa with 15M SP.
im in a vexor w/ 18m
Sighs and all the n00bs with 3M to 8M SP skilling for HACs. Too much ISKs they have.
/emote nods in agreement
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.07.01 15:41:00 -
[18]
I'm in my Rupture at 23 Million.
Once I got RoF V, Medium Auto Spec V, Matar Drone Spec V, Hull Upgrade V, and a couple others. My Rupture got really really really good. Goes the same for Vagabond. Been focusing on Matar minus all the intie's of EVE for a long time. I think it has well payed off with one focused race. Just need to work on my lighter/heavy missile skill support as well skills to get full DPS.
--------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates --------------- |
Voltron
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Posted - 2006.07.01 17:12:00 -
[19]
FFS and here I am rockin a heron at 29 million
Volt
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superscarface
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Posted - 2006.07.01 17:52:00 -
[20]
Hey there Zatho, welcome to Eve
You are going to want all skills required for using this lovely ship and its modules at lv4. So basically, you're looking at HAC 4, support gunnery skills at lv4, shield tanking skills at lv4, engineering cap skills and fitting skills at 4, reasonable drone skills (though not as important), and good navigation skills.
Thats just to start with, work on getting the nice ones to lv5 :-] Jump in a stabber until you are comfortable dancing around gate camps and causing mayhem.
Also, join a pvp corporation. Possible a minmatar focused one if it suits you.
/super
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Henri Auler
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Posted - 2006.07.01 18:19:00 -
[21]
Stabbers don't really give a great idea of what flying a Vaga is like. Three missing slots and two damage bonuses less make it a very different ship.
I'd suggest a Jaguar maybe?
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Lord Violent
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Posted - 2006.07.01 21:54:00 -
[22]
Rifter > Stabber > Jagabond > Vagabond
T2 Medium nos are unimportant youll want named for fitting reasons. T2 Drones are very important if you dont want to be ganged up on by frigs and raped by something bigger (multiple webs will do that)
AC tend to eat a lot of ammo so this will be the bane of your isk as much as the cost of vagas. It can BUT is not good at making isk (excluding pvp which can be lucrative if you dont die to often) so you would be wise to look at other means beyond this ship for an income.
For videos see Wizzies, FZN once offered to sell me wizzie in local, afer I saw the video I wished i'd made an offer
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Kay Brack
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Posted - 2006.07.02 01:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 01/07/2006 14:50:32
Originally by: Kresh Vladir
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DarkElf
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
Thats fine, but they are not very similar ships. Stabber and vagabond are similar to fly. Cyclone and vagabond are not. Same weapons, yes, but come on...its not the same experience to fly at all. Cyclone is a brick and stabber is like a race car.
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
And I am in my Moa with 15M SP.
im in a vexor w/ 18m
Sighs and all the n00bs with 3M to 8M SP skilling for HACs. Too much ISKs they have.
To be honest though skilling WELL for hac's would make you a great af/ cruiser pilot. Problem is "we" nube tend to just cover the basics to get into the ship...My skill plan was to get learning out of the way then any basic skill that added to ship potential. Im still working on electronics upgrades and have a bunch to go including acceleration control. At 8 mil skillpoints i can fly a frig ok and a drone cruiser well with small guns. If people would just try to make the ultimate skillset for frigates i believe the route to bigger ships would go much smoother.
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Capt Rob
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Posted - 2006.07.02 04:56:00 -
[24]
well as i wanna copy every 1 else,
20m sps and i fly a vagabond
basically most of the things above are correct, you will need some good engineering skills as well, as most vagas like to put shield extenders which are very nice. on the whole flying the vagabond; if you get webbed by any larger ships it can mean sexh vaga goes bye bye very soon, most pilots like to put in barrage M and orbit at above 10k ish, works well. overall when flying the vaga, its a great ship and extremely fun to fly. how long it lasts depends on your piloting skill, some comon sense and a little luck
Deros is *** |
Zatho
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Posted - 2006.07.02 08:17:00 -
[25]
Thanks a lot for the replies so far! I can't reply to them all but all of the advice is appreciated.
I think I'll take the route of Rifter > Stabber > Jaguar > Vagabond as suggested by Lord Violent. This means going off-course slightly by having to train Frigate 5 for the Jaguar but the rest of it is natural progression to the Vaga and Frig 5 won't do me any harm :) It's not like I'll be flying only Vagabonds unless I find a way to make stupid amounts of ISK!
I may be tempted by the Rupture at some point too, I've heard a lot about it recently.
So my queue now:
Advanced learning skills to 4 (not Cha).
Core skills (Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Navigation 5, Weapon Upgrades 5 (maybe), Mechanic 5, Energy Systems Operation 4 and Energy Management 4). This is where the fun starts, I'll probably be in sleeper mode until this point.
Frigate 4 and Small Projectile Turret 4.
Supporting gunnery skills. At this point I'll fly a Rifter for missions and such. Once I've got enough ISK I'll blow some up in low sec.
Shield tanking skills.
Tech 2 Small Autocannons.
Navigation Skills (MWD etc.).
Minmatar Cruiser 4 and Medium Projectile Turret 4. Time for level 2's in a Rupture and blowing the odd Stabber up in PVP when I've got the ISK to.
Tech 2 Medium Autocannons.
Minmatar Frigate 5 and Assault Ships 4. Jaguar or Wolf (whichever performs better) for level 3 missions, still blowing up Ruptures and Stabbers in pvp since I'll get insurance for those and not Jaguar.
Further Engineering (need Nos), Navigation, Gunnery supporting skills, maybe some Missile Operation.
Minmatar Cruiser 5. At this point I need to come across a gold mine since I'm not that far from being able to fly a Vagabond competently unless I've missed something.
Heavy Assault Ships 4!
This is a long way off so I'm not worried about what I'll train afterwards. With a bit of luck I'll have too low a security status to be able to do missions any more and perhaps train for a Tempest/Typhoon to NPC with in 0.0?
Few more questions:
If I start PVP'ing in a Rifter will I actually find any possible targets to kill solo? Surely people will be NPC'ing in cruisers or better and pirates will be in cruisers or tech 2 ships? Hopefully I'd find a decent pvp corp anyway (assuming one would accept a noob with low SP) so it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
How quickly will my sec status drop if I do the above? If I'm unable to do missions I can't see any decent way of making isk without getting a second account/char (a very likely alternative).
Thanks again!
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Benglada
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Posted - 2006.07.02 09:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zatho
Weapon Upgrades 5 (maybe)
Weapon upgrades 5 is a prereq, so no, not maybe :) ---------------------------
Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
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superscarface
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Posted - 2006.07.02 09:57:00 -
[27]
You're sec status will drop really quickly. To slow it down, avoid podding, and if possible destroying ships (go for the ransom).
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Zatho
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Posted - 2006.07.02 10:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Benglada
Originally by: Zatho
Weapon Upgrades 5 (maybe)
Weapon upgrades 5 is a prereq, so no, not maybe :)
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.07.02 10:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DarkElf
mmm now let me think. it's minmatar... so same weapons? er it's tanks better thans stabber so can get used to taking more hits. Dumb thing to say. He's asking what ships to try while training for vaga. pleb. Cyclone is the natural progression from a stabber and i hardly think he'll want to be in a stabber for the months it takes to train to use a vaga.
Thats fine, but they are not very similar ships. Stabber and vagabond are similar to fly. Cyclone and vagabond are not. Same weapons, yes, but come on...its not the same experience to fly at all. Cyclone is a brick and stabber is like a race car.
Im still in my rupture with 6 million skillpoints.
my alt is a 6million SP rupty pilot too. Enough for t2 guns though
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.07.02 10:12:00 -
[30]
Well firstly its nice to see someone with a bit of patience and planning instead of wanting to fly everything. I hope you can stick to it.
A couple of points
Originally by: Zatho Core skills (Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Navigation 5, Weapon Upgrades 5 (maybe), Mechanic 5, Energy Systems Operation 4 and Energy Management 4).
Do Weapon Upgrades 5, you can then do Advanced Weapon Upgrades to reduce PG use of guns/missiles. You'll need it to fit your guns + extenders + mwd + nos easier, especially if your using NOS.
Originally by: Zatho
At this point I'll fly a Rifter for missions and such. Once I've got enough ISK I'll blow some up in low sec.
Just go to 0.0, you'll find a lot of relitivly new people setup to rat and this way you won't lose sec status.
Originally by: Zatho
Minmatar Cruiser 5. At this point I need to come across a gold mine since I'm not that far from being able to fly a Vagabond competently unless I've missed something.
Rat in 0.0, if you find the named rats they can drop modules worth 100m + and a few 10m+ modules.
Consider joining a corp with access to 0.0 who don't mind you doing what you need to, to make isk. They will probably want you to go hunting with them in groups but that doesn't mean 100 man fleets.
Originally by: Zatho
Heavy Assault Ships 4!
This is a long way off so I'm not worried about what I'll train afterwards. With a bit of luck I'll have too low a security status to be able to do missions any more and perhaps train for a Tempest/Typhoon to NPC with in 0.0?
You can rat with a Rupture in 0.0 (its the tripple BCs supporting the BS's thats hurt)
Originally by: Zatho
Few more questions:
If I start PVP'ing in a Rifter will I actually find any possible targets to kill solo? Surely people will be NPC'ing in cruisers or better and pirates will be in cruisers or tech 2 ships? Hopefully I'd find a decent pvp corp anyway (assuming one would accept a noob with low SP) so it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
How quickly will my sec status drop if I do the above? If I'm unable to do missions I can't see any decent way of making isk without getting a second account/char (a very likely alternative).
Thanks again!
Got to 0.0, research local rats damage type. NPC'ers will be setup to resist those resists so choose a different ammo. You'll probably also have the NPC's on your side if the NPC has engaged them. Check peoples employment history to see how old they are, then scan what ship they're in. Bigger ships doesn't mean better, it depends if they have the skills. I've killed BC's in my Rupture because they spent the first month getting the BC skill so all the other skills sucked.
Consider a merc corp (they're all the rage these days). They will move around a lot to hunt there target and will probably have somewhere they can go hide and make isk if you need more ships. If you pick a good one you'll learn a lot flying with them and how to make isk(and not to lose isk by picking targets correctly).
Happy Hunting.
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