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Errastas
Fate Amenable To Change
2
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Posted - 2011.11.21 11:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Yes, reverse this terrible change. Add new boosters or something, don't touch the current ones. They're balanced and with this you're nerfing active tanking to hell.
This change simply isn't the right way to make people use drugs more... |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
367
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Posted - 2011.11.21 12:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Errastas wrote:They're balanced and with this you're nerfing active tanking to hell. Wouldn't it be a buff? Improvements to Exile & Blue Pill boosters will make active tanking more viable.
What I'm waiting for now is sale of boosters in high-sec (Shadily, with an extra price) or a fixing of lowsec so more market hubs for boosters are created. |
Errastas
Fate Amenable To Change
2
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Posted - 2011.11.21 12:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Errastas wrote:They're balanced and with this you're nerfing active tanking to hell. Wouldn't it be a buff? Improvements to Exile & Blue Pill boosters will make active tanking more viable. Penalties were removed so that's a buff, but their effectiveness has been reduced greatly. Especially on standard/improved variants which most people use (due to high price of strong boosters).
So now CCP forces people to use 25m pills to get similar effectiveness they had before for 5m (estimate, don't have exact figures at hand).
Boosters were a niche of solo and small gang pvpers and CCP wants to rid of that. It's a worthy cause, but not this way. Making them a mandatory isk sink while at the same time nerfing certain playstyles can ruin the overall game balance. |
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
32
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Posted - 2011.11.21 13:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Logit Probit wrote:Hey CCP: I'll spell it out for you.
PEOPLE DID INDEED ASK YOU TO CHANGE BOOSTERS
Fixed. More specifically, some felt that it was a niche part of the industry side of EVE and wanted to see both increased usage and increased opportunities to produce the stuff. Buffing them to the point where they're a prerequisite to pvp accomplishes that goal, yes, to the detriment of everyone else. We had that already in WoW and it didn't work. Grinding your ass off for buffs wasn't fun, never will be.
Akita T wrote:I might agree that SOME level of side-effects should still exist for NON-MAXIMALLY-SKILLED people. But you should be able to nullify most if not all side-effects with either maxed-out skills or nearly maxed skills and a handful of implants. Why? And how wouldn't this create yet another barrier to new pvp players? CCP took learning skills out precisely because having so many mandatory timesinks is not fun gameplay. It's just a timesink, boring, useless.
Large Collidable Object wrote:If everyone uses scouts, what's the point of having them. I DON'T WANT TO FLY A SECOND ACCOUNT ON SCREEN #2 BEFORE I CAN GO HAVE FUN.
Basically, you can apply that logic to anything everyone does - like fitting turrets on their ships... Apples and oranges. Ships, turrets i.e. equipment isn't temporary. It lasts until it explodes. Ammo is comparable, yes. It's not as insanely powerful as boosters without side effects, though.
So yeah... if you take away the malus you have to nerf the bonus. Otherwise everyone, especially the .0 alliance folk, will whine their asses off within about a month or two after this is released. |
Billy Colorado
La Quieta
7
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Posted - 2011.11.21 14:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
I don't know if I like this or not yet, 'cause I think it's going to take some playing to see how people react.
More than anything, this change impacts the industry that creates boosters. If side effects were prohibitive before, I imagine price will be now. |
Tetragammatron Prime
Pink Sockers
10
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Posted - 2011.11.21 15:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Imo boosters without side effects just turns them into another hoop you have to jump through to pvp, same thing with leadership character being virtually required to pvp even in very small scale 1v1 fighting. |
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
32
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Posted - 2011.11.21 21:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Billy Colorado wrote: 'cause I think it's going to take some playing to see how people react. No. Not at all.
Look around the gaming world. This has been done before and it failed every time. Nobody, except for the lunatic Korean / Chinese crowd who seem to have a perverse love for bordlerine sadistic grindgames, enjoys having to grind consumables just to be able to compete.
Mechanics like this add completely unneeded timesinks and entry barriers. Game designers all over the world realized and stopped putting this stupid bullshit into their games, to the delight of gamers everywhere.
Hopefully CCP's heads in their ivory tower will catch up soon enough. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
389
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Posted - 2011.11.21 22:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
MaiLina KaTar wrote:Akita T wrote:I might agree that SOME level of side-effects should still exist for NON-MAXIMALLY-SKILLED people. But you should be able to nullify most if not all side-effects with either maxed-out skills or nearly maxed skills and a handful of implants. Why? And how wouldn't this create yet another barrier to new pvp players? CCP took learning skills out precisely because having so many mandatory timesinks is not fun gameplay. It's just a timesink, boring, useless. If you go THAT logic route and bring it to its logical extreme, you could end up arguing that ALL skills in the game are a boring, useless timesink and should be obliterated. Sure, it might be fun for a while to be able to use any ship, weapon, module, item and just about anything else from character creation to its highest possible efficiency, but then THAT would become boring rather fast too (and devolve into a much more raw "who has more ISK" thing than it already is).
It becomes obvious that there's some arbitrary line you must draw in the sand and not cross when slashing allegedly "boring stuff" out. Which means, for starters, that we need to at least determine which things belong on which side of that imaginary line.
The case of learning skills was far more complicated than that of boosters, complicated enough to put it rather clearly on the "boring enough to slash" side. Learning skills didn't actually improve anything you could do in-game, they just increased the speed of SP accrual, and regardless of path chosen, in the long run, the best choice was to get them as high as you can stand waiting as soon as possible (with the last levels taking several YEARS to actually "pay off"), which meant that the indisputable MATHEMATICALLY better choice for almost any profession was to waste time early on buffing learnings at the expense of "fun".
For boosters however, or just about any ship / weapon / other module / rig / whatever (with rather few exceptions) several levels of a skill would either grant access to some new items or improve the functionality of already "unlocked" items, giving you a tangible benefit over not training that skill level. It also makes different items be worth different amounts for different people, which is more of a good than a bad thing too. All in all, linking effectiveness of boosters and severity/duration of side-effects from them with some skill levels makes sense. My personal nitpick is with the randomness though. In my opinion, you should not have random effects, just fixed effects. But that's just a personal preference. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
32
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Posted - 2011.11.22 09:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Akita T wrote:MaiLina KaTar wrote:Akita T wrote:I might agree that SOME level of side-effects should still exist for NON-MAXIMALLY-SKILLED people. But you should be able to nullify most if not all side-effects with either maxed-out skills or nearly maxed skills and a handful of implants. Why? And how wouldn't this create yet another barrier to new pvp players? CCP took learning skills out precisely because having so many mandatory timesinks is not fun gameplay. It's just a timesink, boring, useless. If you go THAT logic route and bring it to its logical extreme, you could end up arguing that ALL skills in the game are a boring, useless timesink and should be obliterated. ... It becomes obvious that there's some arbitrary line you must draw in the sand and not cross when slashing allegedly "boring stuff" out. Yes. And in general that line is already drawn and crossed for Eve. There are more than enough of these entry barriers in place for new people. This game really doesn't need more of them. On the contrary, lots of them should be axed before it dies of old age.
Again, look around the gaming world. The times of "grind until you start speaking chinese" and "fake longevity through timesinks" have long since passed. Gamedesign moved on. Nobody liked this ****. Nobody ever will. |
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