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Amarisen Gream
Lone Wolf Union
Yulai Federation
41
   |
Posted - 2014.07.25 06:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
EVE: Death and Taxes
We all now that at some point death and taxes will effect us all.
Current issues with the new industrial fees
- it charges people for use in their own structures/sov.
- we know it was designed to pull isk out of the game as there was starting to be way to much.
Some thoughts on other isk sinks that wouldn't have been so bad.
1: only charge industrial taxes in NPC controlled space - including both pirates and empires.
2: let SOV holders set their own taxes. But increase the cost of maintaining SOV control.
3: charge a "property" tax on goods in player hangers when in NPC stations.
4: a gate tax and/or docking tax based on standing and security in NPC space.
5: increase the cost of LP and add isk cost to star base charters when bought from LP stores.
No matter what option you pick it effects everyone nearly the same. Only people to avoid the gate tax would be null players in null. Tax Hi and low sec one way and tax null another. But in the end it should effect both groups about the same.
There are other ways to increase isk sinking, without stepping on everyone's toes and shitting in their shoes.
Only positive feed back and ideas please. And yes could have placed in F&I, but this is a discussion to find the best option for isk sinking compared to the new Crius style.
xoxo
Amarisen Gream |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense
Easily Excited
1030
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 06:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
No.
"CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik
Fix Nullsec! I wonder if enough people add this thread link to their sig, CCP will notice. |
Sato Page
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
135
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 06:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
No.
Dinsdale Pirannha for CEO of CCP |
Ria Nieyli
14350
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 06:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
No.
Do not remove a fly from your friend's forehead with a hatchet.
- Ancient Chinese Proverb |
Satyr Ersatz
New Eden Security Services
New Eden Conglomerate
13
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 06:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
No. |
Da Dom
Wii R
108
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 06:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote: And yes could have placed in F&I, but this is a discussion to find the best option for isk sinking compared to the new Crius style.
Massive, endless wars
:)(: |
Grenadier Greyback
May Cause Irritation
18
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 07:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Da Dom wrote:Amarisen Gream wrote: And yes could have placed in F&I, but this is a discussion to find the best option for isk sinking compared to the new Crius style. Massive, endless wars
Damnit. I was hoping you'd say "no" so I could chime in with "there's no limits".....
https://i.imgur.com/xnZKiON.gif |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
538
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 07:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
- 5 mil ISK tax for creating a thread in a wrong section of the forum;
That one would be a hell of an ISK sink.
o.0 |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
278
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 07:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'll be the voice of reason and say yes because it will introduce uncontrollable inflation and will devalue all of our products from the endless ISK fountain that is nullGRRGOONBLUEDONUTNERFHIGHSECBLOBWARFAREF1MONKEYBLOBSTAGNANTEVEISDYINGsec space.
On the other hand having 1 trillion ISK is now considered something a 1 week old newbie should have since the value of all products has crashed due to a massive influx of ISK into the system.
SO all in all OP's advice is a good idea and it should be presented in the next CSM meeting and implemented after Hyperion because it is the BEST IDEA EVER. |
Serene Repose
1447
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 07:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
You're being charged for labor. You never had to pay labor costs before. Now you do. Just because it's in YOUR POS doesn't mean you get to institute slavery in EVE. If the Amarrians had to give it up, I imagine you won't be allowed ... anymore.
I don't even manufacture and I picked up at least this much of it. Derp.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
382
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 08:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Or they could add a tax to all industry related thing, which should then be paid for by consumers of the end products and ultimately, anyone who flies spaceships.
.
|
Amarisen Gream
Lone Wolf Union
Yulai Federation
41
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 08:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lol. A lot of "no"s. This is a discussion forum. If you cann't give more than a two letter word response, then you probably shouldn't reply.
Plus I never said my ideas needed to be implemented. They are simply ideas.
Also what labor force am I paying in a POS. Now I can understand a wear and tear cost on the machines., but I don't supply NPCs to a tower to make things. So no labor cost.
Also allowing a NPC system to tax every inch of New Eden is like saying, the UN can now tax everyone in the world because it can. I understand it is a game, and they needed a way to deflat the isk. What I'd like to happen here is a discussion on things that they could have done for an isk sink, but not a cookie cutter method or one size fits all.
If they went through and only charged the tax on hi/low sec industry but then doubled the null-sec SOV cost. The large blocs would ether A) rent more space. B) make more stuff to sell or tax members more or C) lose control of their space. Which means more things blowing up as people fight for control.
A single cookie-cutter tax system doesn't help anyone. The dust will settle soon, and the pre-crius issues will be the post-Crius issues.
Okay. Done ranting for now. Time for proper discussion in great than 2 letter responses.
xoxo
Amarisen Gream |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6438
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 08:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:
We all know that at some point death and taxes will affect us all.
I will reserve judgement on that until I see some proof (though taxes do affect me, they affect me rather nicely, thank you). Also, fixed spelling
Amarisen Gream wrote:Current issues with the new industrial fees
- it charges people for use in their own structures/sov.
- we know it was designed to pull isk out of the game as there was starting to be way to much.
1) How much?
2) So you agree its okay then?
Amarisen Gream wrote:Some thoughts on other isk sinks that wouldn't have been so bad.
1: only charge industrial taxes in NPC controlled space - including both pirates and empires.
2: let SOV holders set their own taxes. But increase the cost of maintaining SOV control.
3: charge a "property" tax on goods in player hangers when in NPC stations.
4: a gate tax and/or docking tax based on standing and security in NPC space.
5: increase the cost of LP and add isk cost to star base charters when bought from LP stores.
1: Why? Whats your rationale that means lawless space is more expensive to live in than 1.0?
2: They already do
3: How on earth would that be better than taxes based on how much you use the functions of stations and POSes in Highsec?
4: Easily avoided and unacceptable in High Sec
5: Dont be insane, its stupid that these even exist in the first place.
Amarisen Gream wrote:There are other ways to increase isk sinking, without stepping on everyone's toes and shitting in their shoes.
You are saying that you dont like one flat tax, but are suggesting 5 others. I dont understand how any of your suggestions are in any way "better" than the costs you are complaining about.
Amarisen Gream wrote:Only positive feed back and ideas please.
Dont be ridiculous. You can't have a debate with only positive feedback unless you are Vladimir Putin.
"Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency
Bloodline.
201
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 08:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
no
|
Marsha Mallow
1345
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 08:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Dont be ridiculous
Tempting to just put this in sig (in caps, obv) and spam every thread with 
ps @ OP: No
TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6440
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 08:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Dont be ridiculous Tempting to just put this in sig (in caps, obv) and spam every thread with ps @ OP: No
DO EET
Also I would reiterate my previous point regarding the OP;
No
"Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3194
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 08:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:Lol. A lot of "no"s. This is a discussion forum. If you cann't give more than a two letter word response, then you probably shouldn't reply.
Plus I never said my ideas needed to be implemented. They are simply ideas.
Also what labor force am I paying in a POS. Now I can understand a wear and tear cost on the machines., but I don't supply NPCs to a tower to make things. So no labor cost.
Also allowing a NPC system to tax every inch of New Eden is like saying, the UN can now tax everyone in the world because it can. I understand it is a game, and they needed a way to deflat the isk. What I'd like to happen here is a discussion on things that they could have done for an isk sink, but not a cookie cutter method or one size fits all.
If they went through and only charged the tax on hi/low sec industry but then doubled the null-sec SOV cost. The large blocs would ether A) rent more space. B) make more stuff to sell or tax members more or C) lose control of their space. Which means more things blowing up as people fight for control.
A single cookie-cutter tax system doesn't help anyone. The dust will settle soon, and the pre-crius issues will be the post-Crius issues.
Okay. Done ranting for now. Time for proper discussion in great than 2 letter responses.
No
"Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out."
-Omar Alharazaad
"CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT."
--áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
1064
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 08:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:Lol. A lot of "no"s. This is a discussion forum. If you cann't give more than a two letter word response, then you probably shouldn't reply.
Plus I never said my ideas needed to be implemented. They are simply ideas.
Also what labor force am I paying in a POS. Now I can understand a wear and tear cost on the machines., but I don't supply NPCs to a tower to make things. So no labor cost.
Also allowing a NPC system to tax every inch of New Eden is like saying, the UN can now tax everyone in the world because it can. I understand it is a game, and they needed a way to deflat the isk. What I'd like to happen here is a discussion on things that they could have done for an isk sink, but not a cookie cutter method or one size fits all.
If they went through and only charged the tax on hi/low sec industry but then doubled the null-sec SOV cost. The large blocs would ether A) rent more space. B) make more stuff to sell or tax members more or C) lose control of their space. Which means more things blowing up as people fight for control.
A single cookie-cutter tax system doesn't help anyone. The dust will settle soon, and the pre-crius issues will be the post-Crius issues.
Okay. Done ranting for now. Time for proper discussion in great than 2 letter responses.
Saying no is a perfectly reasonable response. Its not their job to strike down your opinion, Its your job to convince them otherwise.Quote:Plus I never said my ideas needed to be implemented. They are simply ideas. If that's the case why don't you go discuss this idea with a mirror. I'm sure the reception there will be more agreeable.
And on where is this tax coming from:
It can basically be seen as NPC tax for doing business on their property. Highsec/lowsec has empires, NPC null has pirates, even SOV owners pay a fee to concord to legitimize their claims. Capsuleers aren't the all-powerful rulers of new eden. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
582
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 08:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:- 5 mil ISK tax for creating a thread in a wrong section of the forum;
That one would be a hell of an ISK sink.
I support this product and\or service.
"What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what."
--áAaron Birch |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
1065
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 09:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:- 5 mil ISK tax for creating a thread in a wrong section of the forum;
That one would be a hell of an ISK sink. I support this product and\or service.
Its not enough. How about a blood tax? After you've shiptoasted too much you simply become unable to perform basic cognitive funtions until you replenish again, and we donate the blood to science in hopes they can discover the cause and prevent others from following down the same path. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6442
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 09:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:- 5 mil ISK tax for creating a thread in a wrong section of the forum;
That one would be a hell of an ISK sink. I support this product and\or service. Its not enough. How about a blood tax? After you've shiptoasted too much you simply become unable to perform basic cognitive funtions until you replenish again, and we donate the blood to science in hopes they can discover the cause and prevent others from following down the same path.
Where you say "donate" I hear "exsanguinate" and where you say "science" I hear "Omir Sarikusa"
"Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
Da Dom
Wii R
108
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 09:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Look, this tax you're crying about is a player created problem, not a developer create one. It's because we want to be rich and greedily horde as much wealth as we can rather than tip it into an ISK sink and lose our assets. CCP will continue this trend of creating mandatory sinks to balance the economy until we start burning more ISK than their faucets can provide.
BURN ALL THE THINGS!
:)(: |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
544
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 11:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Da Dom wrote:Look, this tax you're crying about is a player created problem, not a developer create one. It's because we want to be rich and greedily horde as much wealth as we can rather than tip it into an ISK sink and lose our assets. CCP will continue this trend of creating mandatory sinks to balance the economy until we start burning more ISK than their faucets can provide.
BURN ALL THE THINGS!
Well, taxing the industry is an ISK sink only at the first glance. The tax will be included in the final product and it will become more obvious when pre-Crius stocks get depleted.
Guess who will have to grind more to pay the extra cost? Well, the consumer, of course.
Guess what more grinding to afford more expensive stuff will cause? Well, widening the ISK faucet, of course.
But feel free to think that additionally taxing the industrial sector, in EVE or RL, would somehow magically reduce inflation 
o.0 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19802
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 11:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
no
Nil mortifi sine lucre |
Barakkus
2259
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 11:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
If they wanted to pull isk out of the system, they should have gotten rid of plex, incursions, and WH.
http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1477
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 12:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:2: let SOV holders set their own taxes. But increase the cost of maintaining SOV control.
3: charge a "property" tax on goods in player hangers when in NPC stations.
Taking away taxes, or making them set-optional, for SOV nullsec is good.
but this, #3 here, is bad. its stupid. its an ignorant suggestion. are you really saying people wouldnt be allowed to live, or at least have backup assets, in highsec? Because I see no way for this to work without giving literally EVERY player in the game a massive **** You, not to mention it would make bulk-trade hubs such as Jita impossible. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1477
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 12:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:If they wanted to pull isk out of the system, they should have gotten rid of plex, incursions, and WH.
how would PLEX have gotetn rid of isk? Buying plex already gets rid of ISK in market taxes. PLEX doesnt generate ISK, it gets isk from another player who would rather grind out money for a free month instead of use cash, and give it to a player who would rather pay cash instead of grinding for a month. |
Hiply Rustic
A Private Space Venture
79
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 13:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:EVE: Death and Taxes
(STUFF)
Only positive feed back and ideas please.
Are you lost?
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
"Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied."
EvE: Only the stong-willied need apply.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6281
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 16:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
It's a very successful troll.
so
No
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3197
|
Posted - 2014.07.25 16:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:EVE: Death and Taxes
(Derp)
Only positive feed back and ideas please.
So you don't want feedback, you just want us to blow smoke up your arse and pat you on the head.
Did you read anything on these forums before posting this?
"Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out."
-Omar Alharazaad
"CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT."
--áUnsuccessful At Everything |
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