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Digital Messiah
Massive Consumption Solyaris Chtonium
380
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 03:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seeing as the changes to mining and industry are essentially completely game changing numbers wise. Why do we not have the option to refund the skill points invested in them. It is one thing to not do your research and train skills, at least that is avoidable. But when CCP takes the game in a new direction altering that aspect of the game. It isn't exactly foreseeable nor always desirable. With the new changes my isk an hour from mining have gone down tremendously. The time I put in to have what was perfect refining are gone. It is now more profitable with level 4 in all reprocessing ores and refine eff 5 to simply sell the ore even at a station with 0% tax. Null sec has finally won the war on mining in high sec, and you know, they should make more because 0.0 is "dangerous". Depending on where you are or what can happen. But that doesn't mean CCP should have made it that much more profitable to now either get your own station or move to null. Now I can hardly make 20 mill in an hour and a half with perfect orca boosts. Which is insane considering I was making almost 35 million isk an hour before cruis. There is also no reason to ever risk flying a hulk in hi security space. The time it takes to pay off the thing makes it illogical to fly.
I'm sure people will quote other game changes in the past as justification for making people stick out or move on with the new changes. But when you consider I have the equivalent of every learning skill at 5, in mining skill points. And can make more isk an hour blitzing level 3's for SOE, well any corp. Why should the reward be so low for so much time invested? Also I had over 100% refine before the cruis changes. And I know they boosted the mineral reprocessing amounts. But CCP could have at least gave me the option of having what is now perfect instead of forcing me to train 4 months of level 5 industry skills and use an implant slot just to get back to the isk and refine equivalent of before.
I am not disagreeing with CCP's mind set to change industry to improve it in the long run. I just no longer wish to be forced to use a remap and go back to skills that for years were considered perfect for high sec space. Just to see a few more mill an hour return. Or they could have at least done like they did with battle cruisers and let me have equal returns for my skill point investment. Either way I feel the changes are altering enough to merit the option of redirecting my skill points. Also because if I have the option to shoot red boxes or to shoot stationary gray boxes. I will hands down always choose to shoot the more profitable one. Especially when it is now 3-4x the isk an hour.
TL;DR: Mining is not only boring now, but extremely unprofitable, unless you move to null.
Thank you for reading, what is your opinion? Should I adapt or die, or will this almost 7 million skill point deficit be stuck on my character. Something clever |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4201
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 03:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
You already benefited vastly from your skillpoints. No refunds for something you already used. If the game changes, you adapt. Actually, adapt or die is one of the (unofficial) premises of EVE Online. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
15955
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 03:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Id ask you for all of your stuff, but it sounds like all you have is useless mining equipment.
Ah to hell with it, Ill take it. Ill expect your contract shortly. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8321
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 03:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
I move that we make a violation of the forum rules to ask for skill refunds. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Digital Messiah
Massive Consumption Solyaris Chtonium
380
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 03:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:You already benefited vastly from your skillpoints. No refunds for something you already used. If the game changes, you adapt. Actually, adapt or die is one of the (unofficial) premises of EVE Online.
The idea of investing time in this game and having careful planning is that they will pay out for your hard work and cautious nature. What you just described is that I can no longer trust CCP to back an equivalent exchange. It is with in reason to alter a system for the betterment of everyone as a whole. When you then take that idea and apply it in ways of forcing changes that are not accessible to certain individuals. All you end up doing is alienating a large portion of the player base. Before cruis I could tell people that they could make the same isk an hour for skill point investment that they would see from missions. This allowed for variety and healthy diversity in EVE. Now telling someone to pursue mining is the equivalent of telling someone to get into hacking in the same security systems. There is little to no profit for the time put in. And further more you have even less ship classes available to take on lower security space. Considering at least hacking has more and safer ship options.
I do not have the time to commit to running around null sec fighting for space. Nor do I like that play style in eve. I did my time back in 06 - 09 experiencing that portion of the game. CCP has effectively changed the system to much and done so by replacing skills to be less effective than before. In the past when ever this happened with any other portion of the game it was either a necessary balance change or skill points were refunded. Why not now? Especially considered the market has taken years to stabilize to where it was at pre cruis. Something clever |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10858
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 03:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:TL;DR: Mining is not only boring now, but extremely unprofitable, unless you move to null. Mining was always boring, crappy profit. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5754
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 03:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Skill points were only refunded in the case of skills being removed completely. Mining & refining are still in the game, so you're not getting a skillpoint refund. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
malcovas Henderson
THoF
219
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 03:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:Seeing as the changes to mining and industry are essentially completely game changing numbers wise. Why do we not have the option to refund the skill points invested in them. It is one thing to not do your research and train skills, at least that is avoidable. But when CCP takes the game in a new direction altering that aspect of the game. It isn't exactly foreseeable nor always desirable. With the new changes my isk an hour from mining have gone down tremendously. The time I put in to have what was perfect refining are gone. It is now more profitable with level 4 in all reprocessing ores and refine eff 5 to simply sell the ore even at a station with 0% tax. Null sec has finally won the war on mining in high sec, and you know, they should make more because 0.0 is "dangerous". Depending on where you are or what can happen. But that doesn't mean CCP should have made it that much more profitable to now either get your own station or move to null. Now I can hardly make 20 mill in an hour and a half with perfect orca boosts. Which is insane considering I was making almost 35 million isk an hour before cruis. There is also no reason to ever risk flying a hulk in hi security space. The time it takes to pay off the thing makes it illogical to fly.
I'm sure people will quote other game changes in the past as justification for making people stick out or move on with the new changes. But when you consider I have the equivalent of every learning skill at 5, in mining skill points. And can make more isk an hour blitzing level 3's for SOE, well any corp. Why should the reward be so low for so much time invested? Also I had over 100% refine before the cruis changes. And I know they boosted the mineral reprocessing amounts. But CCP could have at least gave me the option of having what is now perfect instead of forcing me to train 4 months of level 5 industry skills and use an implant slot just to get back to the isk and refine equivalent of before.
I am not disagreeing with CCP's mind set to change industry to improve it in the long run. I just no longer wish to be forced to use a remap and go back to skills that for years were considered perfect for high sec space. Just to see a few more mill an hour return. Or they could have at least done like they did with battle cruisers and let me have equal returns for my skill point investment. Either way I feel the changes are altering enough to merit the option of redirecting my skill points. Also because if I have the option to shoot red boxes or to shoot stationary gray boxes. I will hands down always choose to shoot the more profitable one. Especially when it is now 3-4x the isk an hour.
TL;DR: Mining is not only boring now, but extremely unprofitable, unless you move to null.
Thank you for reading, what is your opinion? Should I adapt or die, or will this almost 7 million skill point deficit be stuck on my character.
you talk utter shite. I mine with full orca boosts and make 25-30mill an hour. In Hi sec.
Going on a tangent. If you are playing EVE to make as much isk per hour, all the time you are online. you're doing it wrong.
|
Zero Sum Gain
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOM Silent Requiem
72
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 04:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:[quote=Abrazzar] What you just described is that I can no longer trust CCP .
Another cardinal sin of eve, you trusted someone. I fully expect CCP executives to empty all the accounts they can one day and flee the country. |
Digital Messiah
Massive Consumption Solyaris Chtonium
380
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 04:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
This community like almost all others has become so toxic. No one will take a look at how changes effect balance in the game. So far the only thing any one has said is can I have your stuff, and adapt or die. Looking back I now don't see why I spent countless hours trying to convince CCP to balance systems such as drones or hybrids. The work I put into spreadsheets and balance discussions mean nothing today. Perhaps I have bitter vet syndrome or maybe I just don't like seeing the league of legends community get likes because the only thing that is considered cool and enjoyable is being negative on the forum or forced pvp on players. Anyways cruis was to game changing and maybe eve will struggle on. But you guys are right I am leaving. Watching its birth in 03 to the new player hating community in 14 is saddening. Thanks for the 11 years CCP. No you can not have my things, you will just let them sit in hanger while you troll general discussion for likes from people you don't know so you can impress other people who don't know or care who you are.
To James 315 who just ganked me in under 15 seconds in high security space. You are part of the problem. And killing me for having an opinion is childish. Even more so is the griefing which you continue to call fair and balanced play. Enjoy moving to 0.0 guys, im sure helping to pay someones mortgage and the on going and never resolved issue of RMT is going to be fun. Watching SWG die the same fate and knowing the people who did only play for irl funds. I can see EVE heading down the same path.
Congratulations btw on removing someone who has helped countless new players and strived to make the game better finally give up. Enjoy throwing sand. Something clever |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1449
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 04:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Obligatory can I have your stuff. As for the rest of it, your skills do exactly what they did before in almost every single case. And that one case the Devs have provided a very clear explanation of why they will not refund your skill points. You are asking for a massive 7 million SP refund just because the meta game has been shaken up. Industry is still the same as it always was in terms of skills. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5754
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 04:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:This community like almost all others has become so toxic. No one will take a look at how changes effect balance in the game. So far the only thing any one has said is can I have your stuff, and adapt or die. Looking back I now don't see why I spent countless hours trying to convince CCP to balance systems such as drones or hybrids. The work I put into spreadsheets and balance discussions mean nothing today. Perhaps I have bitter vet syndrome or maybe I just don't like seeing the league of legends community get likes because the only thing that is considered cool and enjoyable is being negative on the forum or forced pvp on players. Anyways cruis was to game changing and maybe eve will struggle on. But you guys are right I am leaving. Watching its birth in 03 to the new player hating community in 14 is saddening. Thanks for the 11 years CCP. No you can not have my things, you will just let them sit in hanger while you troll general discussion for likes from people you don't know so you can impress other people who don't know or care who you are.
To James 315 who just ganked me in under 15 seconds in high security space. You are part of the problem. And killing me for having an opinion is childish. Even more so is the griefing which you continue to call fair and balanced play. Enjoy moving to 0.0 guys, im sure helping to pay someones mortgage and the on going and never resolved issue of RMT is going to be fun. Watching SWG die the same fate and knowing the people who did only play for irl funds. I can see EVE heading down the same path.
Congratulations btw on removing someone who has helped countless new players and strived to make the game better finally give up. Enjoy throwing sand.
TL;DR - I'm quitting because my spreadsheets are worthless now & a big meanie ganked me. Also something about the Dinsdale nullsec RMT cartel bandwagon. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3346
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 04:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
The null sec cartel's completely control CCP, and Eve. Their well-documented goal is to destroy high sec, of which mining was (pre-Crius), still a marginally a profitable occupation, if you did not mind the cartel funded griefers like CODE.
Now, it is garbage, like most other things in high sec. (BTW, level 4's and Incursions are targeted, since they are the only semi-profitable things left in high sec left).
So why the shock?
Much of the player base has already recognized this (note the ACU and PCU), and demonstrated their opinion with their wallets. Naturally, the propagandists will be out in full force to outshout and even censor this truth in minutes. But even after they get this post removed, the truth will remain: the amount of people willing to put up with this is dwindling, and CCP is in deep trouble, whether they recognize it or not. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3346
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 04:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Digital Messiah wrote:This community like almost all others has become so toxic. No one will take a look at how changes effect balance in the game. So far the only thing any one has said is can I have your stuff, and adapt or die. Looking back I now don't see why I spent countless hours trying to convince CCP to balance systems such as drones or hybrids. The work I put into spreadsheets and balance discussions mean nothing today. Perhaps I have bitter vet syndrome or maybe I just don't like seeing the league of legends community get likes because the only thing that is considered cool and enjoyable is being negative on the forum or forced pvp on players. Anyways cruis was to game changing and maybe eve will struggle on. But you guys are right I am leaving. Watching its birth in 03 to the new player hating community in 14 is saddening. Thanks for the 11 years CCP. No you can not have my things, you will just let them sit in hanger while you troll general discussion for likes from people you don't know so you can impress other people who don't know or care who you are.
To James 315 who just ganked me in under 15 seconds in high security space. You are part of the problem. And killing me for having an opinion is childish. Even more so is the griefing which you continue to call fair and balanced play. Enjoy moving to 0.0 guys, im sure helping to pay someones mortgage and the on going and never resolved issue of RMT is going to be fun. Watching SWG die the same fate and knowing the people who did only play for irl funds. I can see EVE heading down the same path.
Congratulations btw on removing someone who has helped countless new players and strived to make the game better finally give up. Enjoy throwing sand. TL;DR - I'm quitting because my spreadsheets are worthless now & a big meanie ganked me. Also something about the Dinsdale nullsec RMT cartel bandwagon.
BTW, thanks for invoking my name in a thread I had not even posted in. You guys clearly have as much fixation with me as I do with fighting you. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
349
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 04:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Everyone has had this happen at some point.
How about my standings and how they will not be making me isk now that everyone can put up POS in high sec? Years of spiraling up standings in the trash. What about all those who ran with interbus to do it and never go LP for it because the standings were valuble?
What about the Max SP toon I had to trash and the 500 mil in implants because the extra remap to new toons showed up 30 days after I started it?
How about the changes to the entire ship line I specilaized in?
What about how I trained advanced learning skills and when the removed them my SP per hour went down?
That's not even my entire personal list. See the point. I have said and will repeat again. If you plan more than one year out in Eve bring the lube.
Everyone gets screwed by changes at some point. You chose to cry about it to a community that is use to it. Do you really expect them to act all sorry for you when they have probly taken on the chin way worse than your minor issue?
Your tears fuel us so thanks for the post. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5755
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 05:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:BTW, thanks for invoking my name in a thread I had not even posted in. You guys clearly have as much fixation with me as I do with fighting you.
Don't thank me, thank the OP for stealing your tinfoil obsession & going on a tangent about nullsec RMT. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5755
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 05:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
I wouldn't really go so far as to say you're an obsession, you're more like Photoshop Phriday; Something I look at once a month for a laugh. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8324
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 05:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: BTW, thanks for invoking my name in a thread I had not even posted in. You guys clearly have as much fixation with me as I do with fighting you.
That, or you just have that rep. My parents know who you are, Dinsdale. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3346
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 05:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: BTW, thanks for invoking my name in a thread I had not even posted in. You guys clearly have as much fixation with me as I do with fighting you.
That, or you just have that rep. My parents know who you are, Dinsdale.
Really, in Real Life?
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7415
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 05:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Everyone has had this happen at some point.
How about my standings and how they will not be making me isk now that everyone can put up POS in high sec? Years of spiraling up standings in the trash. What about all those who ran with interbus to do it and never go LP for it because the standings were valuble?
What about the Max SP toon I had to trash and the 500 mil in implants because the extra remap to new toons showed up 30 days after I started it?
How about the changes to the entire ship line I specilaized in?
What about how I trained advanced learning skills and when the removed them my SP per hour went down?
That's not even my entire personal list. See the point. I have said and will repeat again. If you plan more than one year out in Eve bring the lube.
Everyone gets screwed by changes at some point. You chose to cry about it to a community that is use to it. Do you really expect them to act all sorry for you when they have probly taken on the chin way worse than your minor issue?
Your tears fuel us so thanks for the post.
This is a healthy attitude. Some others have unhealthy attitudes. I'd pay real life money for a copy of Dinsdale's blood pressure charts . |
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Nikolai Lachance
Happy Wheels Logistics
136
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 05:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
As already mentioned, you already have benefitted from having the skills. If you play this game expecting gameplay systems never to change, that's your problem. Industry gameplay systems have been improved. The fact that you're too lazy to figure out how to adapt to the changes to take advantage of the improvements (or that you feel so entitled that you think you should never have to adapt to changes) is not CCP's fault.
The meta in this game changes all the time. We all eventually have skill points invested in skills that, due to some balance change or change in interest or circumstance, are not longer as useful to us as they once were. We don't all get do-overs every time game balance changes in a way that forces us to adapt. It's not like you have a maximum skill cap and these points are in the way.
If it bothers you that much, sell the character to someone who wants those skills and use the isk to buy one that is more suited to your interests. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1046
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 06:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yes entire industries including salvaging corps, research corps and small to medium industrial corps making a few cruisers and some modules a week have been wiped out by the change. Sux to be you if that was how you played EVE,
But no you cannot have a refund. Bad precedent. |
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 06:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Skill points were only refunded in the case of skills being removed completely..
When can I expect my refund for Drone Avionics V? It is functionally removed, can't use the units that it requires, and can't re-train it. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1488
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 06:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
By your arguement CCP should give me back a copy of every item I ever sold or lost every time they are rebalanced. and thats not happening |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3958
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 07:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
OP. Get over it or quit. Those are your two choices, and either are perfectly fine. Just quit the whining. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2087
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 07:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
This seems to be the same as saying "I want a skill point refund for my skills in flying ship XYZ, because after the patch ABC is better."
Btw, as someone who doesn't do asteroid mining, I am curious: Why is mining not worth it anymore? I was under the impression that the refining changes reduced the mineral amount coming from refining mission loot, while in case of mined ore there was a compensating change for that. This would mean, if everything else stayed the same, that the total supply of minerals went down, while mining still nets about the same amount of minerals. This seems a change in favor of mining.
So .. what else changed to negate that? Or am I misunderstanding something? |
Kaea Astridsson
Yggdrasil Woodchoppers Noir. Mercenary Group
99
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 08:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Oh shush you with your reason.
OP: I think doing the reprocessing in a POS is better than what a station can offer. And if you feel reprocessing yourselves tanks the value too much, just compress that gravel sell that instead. |
flakeys
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2364
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 08:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote: Watching SWG die the same fate and knowing the people who did only play for irl funds. I can see EVE heading down the same path.
.
Oooohhh no you didn't just compare CCP's game changes every now and then to the NGE did you ?
Tell me you didn't do that ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Ton'Ka Katsu
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 08:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
so this patch did what code was trying to do? break the miners?
also guys without miners no minerals come in, then nothing gets built, then we can no pvp. do we really want the miners to quit? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23576
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 09:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:Seeing as the changes to mining and industry are essentially completely game changing numbers wise. Why do we not have the option to refund the skill points invested in them. It is one thing to not do your research and train skills, at least that is avoidable. But when CCP takes the game in a new direction altering that aspect of the game. It isn't exactly foreseeable nor always desirable. With the new changes my isk an hour from mining have gone down tremendously. The time I put in to have what was perfect refining are gone. It is now more profitable with level 4 in all reprocessing ores and refine eff 5 to simply sell the ore even at a station with 0% tax. Why should you get your SP back when you still have full use of all the abilities they bring? There's exactly one skill that has seen any real kind of devaluation in Crius and it's not even one you mention.
The time you put into your skills is not gone. Saying otherwise is somewhere between wilful ignorance and blatant idiocy. You also never had the skills for GÇ£perfect refiningGÇ¥ GÇö only enough (in some cases) to reduce waste to 0 under favourable circumstances. If the time you spent one these non-perfect skills is gone, why is your character sheet still full of non-perfect skills?
Moreover, if you're making less money from industry after Crius than you did before, you're doing something horribly wrong, and these ignorant and untrue statements gives a couple of hints of where the problem lies. Oh, and if you've found something more profitable already, why not do that? Hell, why not expand on that and start providing a related good that the market really wants?
Quote:Null sec has finally won the war on mining in high sec What war was that?
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:The null sec cartel's completely control CCP, and Eve. Do you have anything to support this notion?
Quote:Their well-documented goal is to destroy high sec Ooh! Well-documented, you say? So you have something to support this notion? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
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