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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Johann Rascali
Crunchy Crunchy The Obsidian Front
99
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 14:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
It's weird how people feel that it's okay to get free isk at any toon age as long as it's part of faction warfare. If they changed LVL4 missions so that you just sat there for a few minutes and got paid with no risk to your ship there'd be a shitstorm large enough to brown the heavens.
afkalt wrote:Allow bubbles in all plexes.
There's an idea. Make the capture button behave like an ESS. Then at least they have to burn away before escaping. Welcome to our universe where cooldown timers are a mystery, the PLEX menu is just an advertisement, shrapnel bombs deal explosive force, concussion bombs are somehow kinetically penetrative, and who left all these prototype Inferno modules all over the place? |
Jaime Gomes
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 16:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Dude, your wish for no stabs is bad and here is why:
If you remove every possibility for unwilling players to be in space with at least a modicum of protection against attacks, you just remove most of those players from your plexes.
Result: Next time you search for targets you won't find a T1-frigate you may or may not catch, you find nothing. Have fun!
I agree with you and like i said on the main post: removing stabbs from the game itself is very iffy and in the end might not be tottaly right or adequate. But limit the use yes, especially in fw situations at least. Penalties like the ones enumerated before this answer are interesting. |
Jaime Gomes
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 16:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
Arctic Estidal wrote:Stabs are fine and shouldnt be changed.
If there is a specific FW mechanic that needs to change then it should be dealt with indepently.
Agree 100% |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
429
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 16:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
The counter to stabs in FW plexes is that the rats are now moar stronk, and they respawn about every 2 minutes. Militia members wanting to run the plexes must now fit some DPS, which means less slots for stabs. Just make a dual point setup and you will catch moar of the risk-averse militia members. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
118
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 16:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote: so? this is eve, exploiting game mechanic to create your own kind of playstile is eve soul. fw plexes mass farming has been eliminated with kronos changes, everything else should be "solved" by adapting and creating counters in game, not by ccp nerfing the other guy playstile for your.
This is not a playstyle. It's a no-brain, almost no-risk farming which ruins (by adding great deal of LP's inflation) the very idea of Faction Warfare to be a first step to PvP for those PvP-shy ones, and be a safehouse for those who are not very fond with other forms of PvP in other types of space. Not to create another subclass of highsec carebears. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1330
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 16:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
I entirely agree with your concern about fw. But I think your proposal only addresses a symptom and will not really help faction war.
Did you know that its likely people in stabbed ships actually let you get a point before warping? That is because they want you to know its worthless chasing them.
If you remove stabs they will just warp off faster. They see you on the dscan. They know you are coming. You won't get more kills. The only way you will get more kills is if you are ganking defensive plexers who have throw away alts in throw away ships. But loading killboards with them is not really good for the game either.
In order to fix faction war people entering plexes have to assume they will need to fight to hold the plex. As long as the most efficient way to capture plexes is by fitting your ship to avoid pvp and run fw will remain broken.
There are 2 ways to solve the actual problem and not just deal with symptoms. 1) Give militias intel on exactly where plex timers are being run and 2) make it so that if someone warps off the plex timer will rollback.
If ccp implemented these 2 things then they would not need to make special rules about stabs. That is because it would no longer be so efficient to plex in a non pvp fit ship. They would know they need to be ready to fight for each plex if they hope to capture them and their behavior (including their ship fittings) will reflect that. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
429
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 17:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Offensive Plex farming has died to levels that it isn't even noticed anymore. Defensive Plexing is the only way farmers can effectively operate, and the LP earned from that is significantly lower than what farmers had prior to Kronos. To most of us FW players, this is a non-issue.
There are ways to catch the warp stab scum of the galaxy. You just have to switch up your tactics. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1330
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 17:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Offensive Plex farming has died to levels that it isn't even noticed anymore. Defensive Plexing is the only way farmers can effectively operate, and the LP earned from that is significantly lower than what farmers had prior to Kronos. To most of us FW players, this is a non-issue.
There are ways to catch the warp stab scum of the galaxy. You just have to switch up your tactics.
Its far from clear that "most" fw characters are not just farmers themselves. If you consider how many characters actually participate in say burn huola or burn okkamon and then look at how many actual characters are in fw I think you will see my point.
Just because the rabbit plexers are running defensive plexes doesn't make fw occupancy any less of an embarrassment. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
429
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 17:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Offensive Plex farming has died to levels that it isn't even noticed anymore. Defensive Plexing is the only way farmers can effectively operate, and the LP earned from that is significantly lower than what farmers had prior to Kronos. To most of us FW players, this is a non-issue.
There are ways to catch the warp stab scum of the galaxy. You just have to switch up your tactics. Its far from clear that "most" fw characters are not just farmers themselves. If you consider how many characters actually participate in say burn huola or burn okkamon and then look at how many actual characters are in fw I think you will see my point. Just because the rabbit plexers are running defensive plexes doesn't make fw occupancy any less of an embarrassment.
If CCP institutes rollbacks, then the recent changes to the rats aren't needed. As far as showing which plexes are being run, then it should just be a matter of using something akin to the POS reinforcement timer; with the timer for the plex being shown in throughout the system.
Removing stabs or preventing stabbed ships from going into FW plexes isn't a fix. It is just catering to someone else's playstyle who can't be bothered to use different tactics. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
118
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 17:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cearain wrote: There are 2 ways to solve the actual problem and not just deal with symptoms. 1) Give militias intel on exactly where plex timers are being run and 2) make it so that if someone warps off the plex timer will rollback.
Good ideas, but I still think forcing them moving into the some kind of "bubble" which won't allow them to warp away immideately, is a good method to counteract such tactics too. But resetting timer will blend in perfectly anyway. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
699
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 17:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
This boils down to people not playing your way, and wanting CCP to change things so that they will.
They are not unaware of stabbed ships in plexes. Sandbox means they get to do that if they want.
Did you ever consider just running the plexes fit for the PvP you want, and not worrying about people who get away? They ran, you won. Polish your pole with that. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2379
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 18:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'm sure it's been said by now, but this is by no means a new thread, a new idea or a new complaint.
Feel free to use the search button next time and you might see how this - and other previously-discussed topics you may wish to raise - tend to play out. It'll save you plenty of time you could be using to earn ISK or catch someone unstabbed in a plex.
That all being said, removing or rebalancing warp core stabs because of FW is indescribably short-sighted and shows your total lack of overall education. The simple truth is that every day FW farmers fit stabs to their ships and every day stabbed FW farmers get caught and killed. Who kills these stabbed farmers (since it's obviously not you)?
Simple.
People who fit more than one point, use a scrambler instead of a long point for the extra +1 and/or use faction scrams/points that give even more warp disrupting power.
Adapt or die. Or perhaps in your case it should be "adapt or starve". Your prey has to do it and so do you. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
118
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 18:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:This boils down to people not playing your way, and wanting CCP to change things so that they will.
This is wrong. Every game has rules, even if this is a sanbox, rules are everywhere and most of them can't be broken, at least, not without a ban for exploit. Eve's rules strive to make people compete, not allow them to farm piles of isks without risk, out of thin air. Sometimes rules have loopholes, sometimes CCP can't fix them, or they reckon those loopholes indeed will heat up the competition and they allow players to "circumvent" rules using them. And sometimes they don't allow it. It's up to CCP and their view of game's design, not to views of some carebears who wishes to exploit rules out of hunger for easy iskies.
Mike Voidstar wrote: Did you ever consider just running the plexes fit for the PvP you want, and not worrying about people who get away? They ran, you won. Polish your pole with that.
Because with current mechanics it doesn't make sense - timer won't reset. And because the idea of FW is to make people compete in PvP - not allow somebody to exploit it for iskies, but to compete in PvP for them - and this is not just novative usage of system, this is sign of its bad design that it allows for such easy farming of itself.
If you wish farm without risks go for Incursions or LV4. You won't do that, cause FW farming is much more profitable, and don't require anything aside from cheap t1 frigate and empty clone. There is nothing novative in sitting in cheap costless vessel and waiting for timer, and people only do it because this is even less risky and require almost zero investment, than most of others similar isk generating activities - even those happeining in nulls. So it's tottally out of "more risk - more reward" design concept and contributes to disbalance in game's economy. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 18:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Cearain wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Offensive Plex farming has died to levels that it isn't even noticed anymore. Defensive Plexing is the only way farmers can effectively operate, and the LP earned from that is significantly lower than what farmers had prior to Kronos. To most of us FW players, this is a non-issue.
There are ways to catch the warp stab scum of the galaxy. You just have to switch up your tactics. Its far from clear that "most" fw characters are not just farmers themselves. If you consider how many characters actually participate in say burn huola or burn okkamon and then look at how many actual characters are in fw I think you will see my point. Just because the rabbit plexers are running defensive plexes doesn't make fw occupancy any less of an embarrassment. If CCP institutes rollbacks, then the recent changes to the rats aren't needed. As far as showing which plexes are being run, then it should just be a matter of using something akin to the POS reinforcement timer; with the timer for the plex being shown in throughout the system. Removing stabs or preventing stabbed ships from going into FW plexes isn't a fix. It is just catering to someone else's playstyle who can't be bothered to use different tactics.
Yes I agree with you. If CCP did those changes we really wouldn't need rats at all. Which would be great. Let players win the war instead of relying on rats.
CCP said they would try to add the intel of which plexes were being run into some sort of map or other intel tool. Ideally you would know where people are running plexes for several jumps out. This would mean the pvpers would have an easier time making sure all the plexes were fought for and rabbits wouldn't have such a big impact.
CCP fozzie recently confirmed that they still want to do the timer rollback. The other intel tool was going to be bundled with a larger package that would be used outside of fw as well. This combination would breath new life into the warzone.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1174
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 18:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:This boils down to people not playing your way, and wanting CCP to change things so that they will.
This is wrong. Every game has rules, even if this is a sanbox, rules are everywhere and most of them can't be broken, at least, not without a ban for exploit. Eve's rules strive to make people compete, not allow them to farm piles of isks without risk, out of thin air. Sometimes rules have loopholes, sometimes CCP can't fix them, or they reckon those loopholes indeed will heat up the competition and they allow players to "circumvent" rules using them. And sometimes they don't allow it. It's up to CCP and their view of game's design, not to views of some carebears who wishes to exploit rules out of hunger for easy iskies. Mike Voidstar wrote: Did you ever consider just running the plexes fit for the PvP you want, and not worrying about people who get away? They ran, you won. Polish your pole with that.
Because with current mechanics it doesn't make sense - timer won't reset. And because the idea of FW is to make people compete in PvP - not allow somebody to exploit it for iskies, but to compete in PvP for them - and this is not just novative usage of system, this is sign of its bad design that it allows for such easy farming of itself. If you wish farm without risks go for Incursions or LV4. You won't do that, cause FW farming is much more profitable, and don't require anything aside from cheap t1 frigate and empty clone. There is nothing novative in sitting in cheap costless vessel and waiting for timer, and people only do it because this is even less risky and require almost zero investment, than most of others similar isk generating activities - even those happeining in nulls. So it's tottally out of "more risk - more reward" design concept and contributes to disbalance in game's economy.
LP farming for market items is PVP. Just like mining. Fit more points or bring friends and please CCP rollback timers... |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
433
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 18:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:This boils down to people not playing your way, and wanting CCP to change things so that they will.
This is wrong. Every game has rules, even if this is a sanbox, rules are everywhere and most of them can't be broken, at least, not without a ban for exploit. Eve's rules strive to make people compete, not allow them to farm piles of isks without risk, out of thin air. Sometimes rules have loopholes, sometimes CCP can't fix them, or they reckon those loopholes indeed will heat up the competition and they allow players to "circumvent" rules using them. And sometimes they don't allow it. It's up to CCP and their view of game's design, not to views of some carebears who wishes to exploit rules out of hunger for easy iskies. Mike Voidstar wrote: Did you ever consider just running the plexes fit for the PvP you want, and not worrying about people who get away? They ran, you won. Polish your pole with that.
Because with current mechanics it doesn't make sense - timer won't reset. And because the idea of FW is to make people compete in PvP - not allow somebody to exploit it for iskies, but to compete in PvP for them - and this is not just novative usage of system, this is sign of its bad design that it allows for such easy farming of itself. If you wish farm without risks go for Incursions or LV4. You won't do that, cause FW farming is much more profitable, and don't require anything aside from cheap t1 frigate and empty clone. There is nothing novative in sitting in cheap costless vessel and waiting for timer, and people only do it because this is even less risky and require almost zero investment, than most of others similar isk generating activities - even those happeining in nulls. So it's tottally out of "more risk - more reward" design concept and contributes to disbalance in game's economy.
So much wrong in this. First the person running the plex has to finish it, if you run him out and continue to chase and harass him, then he can't finish it and earn his precious LP. Secondly, running FW missions is more profitable than sitting in a plex running down a timer, and can be done in a bomber. Farming a plex is inherently more risky than running a FW mission. Third, they are not exploiting anything; there are counters to their playstyle that can and have been used.
You know what? Screw this. I can't be bothered to explain FW to self-entitled players who think the game should be changed to suit them. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
119
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 18:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: LP farming for market items is PVP. Just like mining. Fit more points or bring friends and please CCP rollback timers...
FW was created as a first step PvP playground, not as farming paradise for risk-averse players, and it can't be both simultaneously wihtout suffering greatly. And you still ignored my point about FW farming being totally out of "more risk - more reward" concept. LP inflation introduced by exessive LP farming by those who don't even generate any content and even don't take any significant risks hurt also those who use system in the way it was intended by CCP, and makes it somewhat less attractive for them. This is not some kind of "emerging gameplay", there is nothing intresting or novating in it, it's just a plain, stupid, risk-averse farming, so shouldn't be tolerated. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
433
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 18:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Cearain wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Offensive Plex farming has died to levels that it isn't even noticed anymore. Defensive Plexing is the only way farmers can effectively operate, and the LP earned from that is significantly lower than what farmers had prior to Kronos. To most of us FW players, this is a non-issue.
There are ways to catch the warp stab scum of the galaxy. You just have to switch up your tactics. Its far from clear that "most" fw characters are not just farmers themselves. If you consider how many characters actually participate in say burn huola or burn okkamon and then look at how many actual characters are in fw I think you will see my point. Just because the rabbit plexers are running defensive plexes doesn't make fw occupancy any less of an embarrassment. If CCP institutes rollbacks, then the recent changes to the rats aren't needed. As far as showing which plexes are being run, then it should just be a matter of using something akin to the POS reinforcement timer; with the timer for the plex being shown in throughout the system. Removing stabs or preventing stabbed ships from going into FW plexes isn't a fix. It is just catering to someone else's playstyle who can't be bothered to use different tactics. Yes I agree with you. If CCP did those changes we really wouldn't need rats at all. Which would be great. Let players win the war instead of relying on rats. CCP said they would try to add the intel of which plexes were being run into some sort of map or other intel tool. Ideally you would know where people are running plexes for several jumps out. This would mean the pvpers would have an easier time making sure all the plexes were fought for and rabbits wouldn't have such a big impact. CCP fozzie recently confirmed that they still want to do the timer rollback. The other intel tool was going to be bundled with a larger package that would be used outside of fw as well. This combination would breath new life into the warzone.
Displaying the timers in system I am fine with. Giving out another free map intel tool just smacks of catering to laziness. Now if it is a map tool telling you which FW systems are active, but not telling you how active,; I'm fine with it. A map tool telling you which plexes are being run in X system, and what timers they have is just too much intel. We players should be doing some footwork to find our targets. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
290
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 19:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Eve's rules strive to make people compete, not allow them to farm piles of isks without risk, out of thin air. Soooo much LoL my head hurts. No rule says compete, no rule says you can't or shan't farm Isk out of thin air (which all ISK generation and resource accumulation is) and it seems that Risk is also up to your definition .. let me guess, "must be able to go puff by hostile player", which all players that undock initially are anyway.
So much fail. Ouch.
Good the thread is going your way.
Not.
Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
120
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 19:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: No rule says compete, no rule says you can't or shan't farm Isk out of thin air (which all ISK generation and resource accumulation is) and it seems that Risk is also up to your definition
For some reason you think of rules like about some kind of EULA. "Game rules" usually imply game's mechanics. And yes, it is overall goal of CCP to create game world where greater profits counterbalanced with greater isks and competition. It's written all over their public speaches on game's main concepts.
And "risk" have more than clear definition which is always tied to some potentional loses. There is no significant risks in farming FW plexes - you doing it with desposable alt 2 weeks old, your ship is cheapest one and clone empty, or stuffed with cheapest implants. You can easly avoid any other player. And at the same time you earn profits equivalent to those earned by engaging in more proactive and risky activities - thus this possibility clearly breaks "more risk more reward" concept, which is - by CCP itself - a cornerstone of Eve's design. Your tricky wordplays won't do any good to change these facts. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
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Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
290
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 19:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Hahaha, look who is playing with words.
A sandbox is what you make it. A game community develops beyond the intentions of any game or game designer (as has been acknowledged by all that understand games, and you can ask if you don't believe me). Rules are also what you make them and not the majority, YOU make your rules, and as do you, so do I and OTHERS. There are no universal rules in a sandbox, there are principles. And since you brought up the EULA, you called it exploits which are something against the EULA or basic game mechanics, you are drawing the unspoken conclusion, not me. And again you assume that Risk is a potential loss and leave it open which loss that actually is, looking triumphant over the dead strawman. I am still here and so are the arguments. And you quote so bravely "more risk more reward" and that is good and fine but you use it to defeat the rebuttal to your poorly chosen happening of ISK out of thin air with no risk - which is laughable.
Don't twist words. You lost, a few posts before I even started. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1332
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 20:06:00 -
[52] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Cearain wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Cearain wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Offensive Plex farming has died to levels that it isn't even noticed anymore. Defensive Plexing is the only way farmers can effectively operate, and the LP earned from that is significantly lower than what farmers had prior to Kronos. To most of us FW players, this is a non-issue.
There are ways to catch the warp stab scum of the galaxy. You just have to switch up your tactics. Its far from clear that "most" fw characters are not just farmers themselves. If you consider how many characters actually participate in say burn huola or burn okkamon and then look at how many actual characters are in fw I think you will see my point. Just because the rabbit plexers are running defensive plexes doesn't make fw occupancy any less of an embarrassment. If CCP institutes rollbacks, then the recent changes to the rats aren't needed. As far as showing which plexes are being run, then it should just be a matter of using something akin to the POS reinforcement timer; with the timer for the plex being shown in throughout the system. Removing stabs or preventing stabbed ships from going into FW plexes isn't a fix. It is just catering to someone else's playstyle who can't be bothered to use different tactics. Yes I agree with you. If CCP did those changes we really wouldn't need rats at all. Which would be great. Let players win the war instead of relying on rats. CCP said they would try to add the intel of which plexes were being run into some sort of map or other intel tool. Ideally you would know where people are running plexes for several jumps out. This would mean the pvpers would have an easier time making sure all the plexes were fought for and rabbits wouldn't have such a big impact. CCP fozzie recently confirmed that they still want to do the timer rollback. The other intel tool was going to be bundled with a larger package that would be used outside of fw as well. This combination would breath new life into the warzone. Displaying the timers in system I am fine with. Giving out another free map intel tool just smacks of catering to laziness. Now if it is a map tool telling you which FW systems are active, but not telling you how active,; I'm fine with it. A map tool telling you which plexes are being run in X system, and what timers they have is just too much intel. We players should be doing some footwork to find our targets.
So are you going to roam around reporting where people are running plexes? Players don't do this nor should they be expected to. This is supposed to be a war not pheasant hunting.
There is no reason we should not be made aware when their military facilities are attacked! It is silly to think a military facility would be attacked and not inform anyone. Can you imagine someone at a military facility not reporting they are being attacked and responding - "well I was waiting for someone to roam around and see that we were being attacked."
Of course it is well established that players can not do this well enough to prevent occupancy from being done by rabbit plexers - hence we have massive amounts of vp being gained by people in empty frigates -save some stabs.
I know some people are fine with faction whorefare as it is. But others feel like myself and the op and others in this thread. The occupancy "war" should be won by fighting not running.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
120
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 20:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: A sandbox is what you make
And tottaly wrong and self-entitled in the very first sentence. If it's so, then go make POS anchored anywhere you want, and not only at moon. Go and somehow make so that in contract one item was shown, but after accepting it player would have received totally different one - and don't be banned by doing so (no, I'm not talking about creating scam contracts with similar items, I mean exactly as it is - one item shown as included in contract, but totally different received). Go and try to repeat these famous goonish scams with generating millions of FW LPs out of thin air. Go and build an outpost wihtout SOV in a system.
You won't succeed. Why? How comes? You just said this is you, an all-mighty and ingenious subscriber who creates this world on his whims. The truth is you are bound with rules and allowed quite narrow space to act freely by CCP, and sometimes, when they think it's fits their vision, they allow you to do something out-of-boxy. Like suicide ganking, or bumping. Or, in contrary, won't allow, like bumping ships from under the POS's shield to which you don't have access. In last case, even as game rules allow it, CCP doesn't. Do you still need more clear examples? Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
54
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 20:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: LP farming for market items is PVP. Just like mining. Fit more points or bring friends and please CCP rollback timers...
FW was created as a first step PvP playground, not as farming paradise for risk-averse players, and it can't be both simultaneously wihtout suffering greatly. And you still ignored my point about FW farming being totally out of "more risk - more reward" concept. LP inflation introduced by exessive LP farming by those who don't even generate any content and even don't take any significant risks hurt also those who use system in the way it was intended by CCP, and makes it somewhat less attractive for them. This is not some kind of "emerging gameplay", there is nothing intresting or novative in it, it's just a plain, stupid, risk-averse farming, so shouldn't be tolerated.
YES FW should solve all this by going back to the way it was before. Plex's not worth anything other than epeen. only way to earn LP was the mission. There was a lot less crying back then I feel, I know I was bothered less when I was running missions.
Oh that's right no one bothered with them cause they didn't care who owned the system till there was a reward for running them.
The system for plex use to be 100% for pvp. It didn't work they made it a pve thing people complained and cried, now its a hybrid where there is still pve but also pvp. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
290
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 20:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: A sandbox is what you make
And tottaly wrong and self-entitled in the very first sentence. If it's so, then go make POS anchored anywhere you want, and not only at moon. Go and somehow make so that in contract one item was shown, but after accepting it player would have received totally different one - and don't be banned by doing so (no, I'm not talking about creating scam contracts with similar items, I mean exactly as it is - one item shown as included in contract, but totally different received). Go and try to repeat these famous goonish scams with generating millions of FW LPs out of thin air. Go and build an outpost wihtout SOV in a system. You won't succeed. Why? How comes? You just said this is you, an all-mighty and ingenious subscriber who creates this world on his whims. The truth is you are bound with rules and allowed quite narrow space to act freely by CCP, and sometimes, when they think it's fits their vision, they allow you to do something out-of-boxy. Like suicide ganking, or bumping. Or, in contrary, won't allow, like bumping ships from under the POS's shield to which you don't have access. In last case, even as game rules allow it, CCP doesn't. Do you still need more clear examples? Super LOL, now you are just bitchin after a defeat - sour loser - Grasping at straws to get out of the hole you dug yourself, that's pathetic, know when you are beaten. You got no arguments left, well or unable to see them and I won't point them out.
I fight for my principles, but I can recognize when I am wrong or my opinion is badly formed, I quit threads I have no business in and say when I change my mind or let things go when I am at a loss or figure I am discussing a different issue - can you ? You are acting like a presuppositional defending you assumption no matter how wrong, just so you can claim you are the winner - sad.
And since it is close to derailing and is becoming ad hominum I am going to quit this. Your basic assumptions are wrong as well as the strawman arguments you present, so my job is done anyway.
Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
121
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 00:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: Super LOL, now you are just bitchin after a defeat - sour loser - Grasping at straws to get out of the hole you dug yourself, that's pathetic, know when you are beaten. You got no arguments left, well or unable to see them and I won't point them out.
I fight for my principles, but I can recognize when I am wrong or my opinion is badly formed, I quit threads I have no business in and say when I change my mind or let things go when I am at a loss or figure I am discussing a different issue - can you ? You are acting like a presuppositional defending you assumption no matter how wrong, just so you can claim you are the winner - sad.
And since it is close to derailing and is becoming ad hominum I am going to quit this. Your basic assumptions are wrong as well as the strawman arguments you present, so my job is done anyway.
tl;dr you composed this whole wall of "bitchin", said nothing sane to any arguments posted to the moment and went away anticipating you won't be able to hold on like this for any longer. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Jessica Danikov
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
373
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 00:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP just need to turn FW into some kind of space MOBA-lite. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
946
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 01:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
Stabs should be active modules that consume a moderate amount of cap. You can't full time them, but you should be able to activate it align out, and warp out. If cap consumption is set right it would be nice to see only enough cap is available for a short warp (few AU). Giving someone with quick probe skills a chance to catch the target before the warp off again.
I think it would be an interesting change and force players to be more active in defending themselves against points. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1174
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 02:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Stabs should be active modules that consume a moderate amount of cap. You can't full time them, but you should be able to activate it align out, and warp out. If cap consumption is set right it would be nice to see only enough cap is available for a short warp (few AU). Giving someone with quick probe skills a chance to catch the target before the warp off again.
I think it would be an interesting change and force players to be more active in defending themselves against points.
You would literally need to kill the cap regen on the ship or you will amke it harder for a prober to find him because he will mash the warp key and keep getting small warp especially in larger systems. To make you idea work, you would need to change the amount of cap needed to initiate a warp and that's a whole other can of worm to open. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1174
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 03:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: A sandbox is what you make
And tottaly wrong and self-entitled in the very first sentence. If it's so, then go make POS anchored anywhere you want, and not only at moon. Go and somehow make so that in contract one item was shown, but after accepting it player would have received totally different one - and don't be banned by doing so (no, I'm not talking about creating scam contracts with similar items, I mean exactly as it is - one item shown as included in contract, but totally different received). Go and try to repeat these famous goonish scams with generating millions of FW LPs out of thin air. Go and build an outpost wihtout SOV in a system. You won't succeed. Why? How comes? You just said this is you, an all-mighty and ingenious subscriber who creates this world on his whims. The truth is you are bound with rules and allowed quite narrow space to act freely by CCP, and sometimes, when they think it's fits their vision, they allow you to do something out-of-boxy. Like suicide ganking, or bumping. Or, in contrary, won't allow, like bumping ships from under the POS's shield to which you don't have access. In last case, even as game rules allow it, CCP doesn't. Do you still need more clear examples?
Except stabs are within the will of CCP. They are not code badly handled like bumping ships out of a POS shield. If they were not working as intended (just like the POS bowling), they would of made a statement and told players they will get reprimanded for using them like FW farmers do it. |
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