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Lucius Ventrue
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Posted - 2006.07.13 12:08:00 -
[1]
Let me get this straight...
IPO Created to help establish a strong economical presence in EC-P8R. Outpost configured to have offices rented and Jump Clones, advertisment on dedicated web site for Moon rentals and other economical possiblitys ... yet I am able to successfully rent a office only to get blown up right after it by a gatecamp of several corporations (alliance) Band of Brothers.
So either this is one hell of a trap to get people to enter EC-P8R, rent an office for 35 million, then get pop'd by a unpatrolled somalia type of system.
ISS does not protect their investors or protect their investments? Maybe I am completely missing something here...
I assume this is a 100 million isk lesson? Cyclone + 60mil in modules, 35m worthless office rental...
I guess it is to much to ask for a 0.0 DMZ...someone please set me straight here
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Simon Illian
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Posted - 2006.07.13 12:18:00 -
[2]
lol ISS are apparently active in EC-P8R, they fight a lot, they win isk wise.
BUT they are not you'r mother and can't protect 24/24 the gate, use you'r brain, it help.
And ...
EC-P8R is a 0.0 area, ISSN are create for this type of work (i think), whining on the forum don't help you to evade loss
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Lucius Ventrue
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Posted - 2006.07.13 12:36:00 -
[3]
A simple disclaimer on the website would help, when you read what they offer it is a little deceptive.
This is not a whinning post, this is a slightly ****ed off waste of time post. I am a 4 month old to the game with limited 0.0 experience. My corporation is the same (11 RL friends that switched from other MMORPG's) to tackle this one.
I am not looking for a mother, just a straight up situation anwsered ... You have provided what I was assuming after the attack.
After the attack I have been reading more on the forums and trying to get more of a handle with tactics to scout the 0.0 space before entering etc... Was just mis-lead that the system was protected.
From what I gather these are facts:
ISS/ISSN: 1. Do not engage netrual corps/players; Only fire on folks that fire on them.
2. Will not assist if someone is ganking a neutral, unless they are fired upon or numbers are not sufficent.
3. Do maintain a presence in EC-P8R, but the system is unstable and is subject to anything/everything.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganking Alliances at entrance so far
1. Band of Brothers
Individual or double up random pirates will happen in a 0.0, I understand that and we can deal with those...but I am trying to establish a pattern that gatecamping will occur and document it.
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Simon Illian
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Posted - 2006.07.13 13:00:00 -
[4]
in ECP-8R the situation can change in 5 minutes
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Scarlet Pimpernel
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Posted - 2006.07.13 15:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lucius Ventrue
Ganking Alliances at entrance so far
1. Band of Brothers
Actually BOB have only been active in EC fairly recently.
Normally the regulars are:
Exanimo Doom Yesodic<sp?> Nomads
Lately however these guys have also started popping up Penetrate [Alektrophobia] <sp?> Celtic Anarchy
The situation in EC can and does change very quickly, I think ISS suggest you join the Cassini Public chat channel and ask about the current situation before jumping through
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ec p8r
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Posted - 2006.07.14 00:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lucius Ventrue ISS/ISSN: 1. Do not engage netrual corps/players; Only fire on folks that fire on them.
Partly true, I made this alt out of boredom one night, spent the time training it to make a corp, made one. Entered EC (It was't camped, surprised me) and a while later, I was podded and blown up around 7-8 times (At work, can't check exactly). I know they fire on noobcorpers, which I wasn't (My one man corp). I can understand if I was sitting at their POS or at the gate watching them or whatnot, but I was either A. Around the iss cassini outpost (Usually just simply undocking, or orbiting some Raven that wasn't ISS), or B. mining veldspar in some belt. I guess Minmatar rookie ships are that dangerous . |
Jon Hawkes
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Posted - 2006.07.14 11:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lucius Ventrue
ISS does not protect their investors or protect their investments? Maybe I am completely missing something here...
Simple - you are not an asset of the ISS. It is the job of the ISS Navy to protect the Alliance's assets, such as structures, not its members or invetors, unless specifically contracted to do so on a case by case basis. Like anywhere else in Eve, you are responsible for your own safety, and EC-P8R has long been regarded as one of the hottest system in the galaxy. The tools for your survival are always available: map, scouts, gang mates, channels for intel on the region, etc...
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Empire Runner
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Posted - 2006.07.15 04:30:00 -
[8]
Yow. Thats quite a statment
Originally by: Jon Hawkes
Originally by: Lucius Ventrue
ISS does not protect their investors or protect their investments? Maybe I am completely missing something here...
Simple - you are not an asset of the ISS. It is the job of the ISS Navy to protect the Alliance's assets, such as structures, not its members or invetors, unless specifically contracted to do so on a case by case basis. Like anywhere else in Eve, you are responsible for your own safety, and EC-P8R has long been regarded as one of the hottest system in the galaxy. The tools for your survival are always available: map, scouts, gang mates, channels for intel on the region, etc...
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Nee'kita Frist
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Posted - 2006.07.15 10:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jon Hawkes
Simple - you are not an asset of the ISS. It is the job of the ISS Navy to protect the Alliance's assets, such as structures, not its members or invetors, unless specifically contracted to do so on a case by case basis. Like anywhere else in Eve, you are responsible for your own safety, and EC-P8R has long been regarded as one of the hottest system in the galaxy. The tools for your survival are always available: map, scouts, gang mates, channels for intel on the region, etc...
Is that an ISS statement or a ISS pilot's opinion? --------------
I'm just bitter |
Kruugore
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.15 18:39:00 -
[10]
Seems more like a pilots opinion.
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Vishnej
Demonic Retribution
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Posted - 2006.07.16 09:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Vishnej on 16/07/2006 09:23:22 Edited by: Vishnej on 16/07/2006 09:22:25 Just FYI, your self righteous attitude is sort of annoying to the 0.0 players. People regularly lose hundreds of millions in fitted BS to defend 0.0. Alliances regularly blow tens of billions. Border systems are the hardest to defend because they're the most accessible for everyone - 0.0 newbs as well as BoB can jump RIGHT in and begin popping people - no protection is possible unless you can camp the gate 24/7. Compare this to somewhere deep in 0.0, where you usually have warning that an enemy fleet's coming, have a chance to catch up to them when they run away, have a chance to trap them in a bubble, where they can't dock within 15 jumps of their target, etc.
You bought docking rights and a non-aggression pact. Protection is never offered to sponsored corps by any 0.0 alliance - people are assumed competent at defending themselves, and they replace their losses with the benefits acquired from the ability to kill 1.5mil BS rats every five minutes, or being able to mine 50mil/hour of ore, without the downside of being in an alliance and having to recall all their ships frequently because there's enemies on the other side of the region.
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.16 12:27:00 -
[12]
Lucius,
As anyone with access to our killboard will tell you, we have fought many battles in EC-P8R. We have recently lost, and destroyed, billions of ISK on a weekly basis.
However, we are not here to hold your hand. You, and you ALONE, are responsible for your safe travel in 0.0 space. You stated that you warped into a hostile camp and got blown up. Well, how are we supposed to prevent you doing that? Use a scout. Look in local. Do what anyone should do in 0.0 to look after themselves.
ISS are not CONCORD, we are not here to 'save' people from losing their ship, especially when they apprently don't know how to look after themselves. We do what we can to discourage piracy in our systems, but we can't watch you 24/7 and neither do we make any guarentees about your safety in 0.0 space. The moment you leave the security of Empire space you are on your own.
Frankly, the sense of entitlement in your post irritates me. Learn to look after yourself before coming on a public discussion forum and blaming us for you losing your ship. It was a preventable loss, and complaining about it on here makes you look foolish.
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.16 12:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nee'kita Frist
Originally by: Jon Hawkes
Simple - you are not an asset of the ISS. It is the job of the ISS Navy to protect the Alliance's assets, such as structures, not its members or invetors, unless specifically contracted to do so on a case by case basis. Like anywhere else in Eve, you are responsible for your own safety, and EC-P8R has long been regarded as one of the hottest system in the galaxy. The tools for your survival are always available: map, scouts, gang mates, channels for intel on the region, etc...
Is that an ISS statement or a ISS pilot's opinion?
It is what we do. Shareholders and members of ISS are responsible for their own safe travel in 0.0 space. We are here to protect fixed assets such as outposts.
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Booster Terrick
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Posted - 2006.07.17 03:22:00 -
[14]
I concur with Butter's statements..it's a very different world out in 0.0. Unless you're in your own alliance's territory, one does not enjoy the luxury of protection and regular patrols as a deterrent.
In my opinion based on what I understand of ISS policy, it is not nor ever has been the policy or tendency of ISSN to act as a police force in systems where ISS has sovereignty.
That Sov acts as a tool to gain fuel bonuses and make it possible to setup trade outposts, not to establish jealously guarded territory of any value.
Furthermore, ISS Cassini was inherited from a coalition that had taken it from T.R.U.S.T, who in my opinion should have never wasted the isk to setup an outpost in such a volatile border/0.0 access system. EC has always been and always will be very dangerous (can you say "PF-346"?)
It has been my observation since being in the ISS that the ISSN is doing exactly what they advertise and sometimes goes above and beyond what their mission is: They exist to protect the static assets of the ISS.
I speak from my own opinion here, but it seems to me that many people are comparing the ISS with other alliances who occupy and jealously defend their territory...
The ISS is a strictly neutral entity that is not concerned with who is warring against whom, but rather makes economic growth and development possible for the average schmoe as well as alliances out in 0.0 space.
Unfortunately from some people's perspectives, the ISS does not field a police force...it's probably well that they don't. In my opinion this would jeopardize their strict neutrality and put into danger their many contracts and agreements negotiated with the alliances and other groups.
In many cases the systems the ISS occupies are at the graciousness of the hosting alliances...that territory is not theirs TO police. In the case of EC, I don't think anybody would be stupid enough to try to defend it, much less claim it.
If you intend to keep an office at Cassini, my best advice to you would be to employ a VERY heavy escort to any ships jumping in, or try to find routes/times when you won't run into gatecamps.
Good luck sir.
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Queensryche
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Posted - 2006.07.17 04:39:00 -
[15]
Basicly what ISS is saying - they will not hunt you if you are neutral and have the balls to enter their region / system. But they do not have the power to enforce their "not shooting neutrals" onto every other corporation they allow to live in their space they (ISS) claim is their own, who follows the NBSI Policy. So we value your business, if you can get to us, and hopefully you will buy a ship while you are here visiting to replace the one you lost on the way in. |
ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.17 11:29:00 -
[16]
ISS and ISSN are bunch of scumsuckers which can't defend own ships, nevermind of their assets. Do not expect them to defend you. All they can do is beg GM's to petition players instead of fight.
Now to the topic...
If you want to get safe jump to EC you can always ask DOOM/Exanimo/YNC for an entry fee. I am sure they will be helpful. If you are ISS/ISSN - don't bother.
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Jon Hawkes
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.17 12:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nee'kita Frist
Originally by: Jon Hawkes
Simple - you are not an asset of the ISS. It is the job of the ISS Navy to protect the Alliance's assets, such as structures, not its members or invetors, unless specifically contracted to do so on a case by case basis. Like anywhere else in Eve, you are responsible for your own safety, and EC-P8R has long been regarded as one of the hottest system in the galaxy. The tools for your survival are always available: map, scouts, gang mates, channels for intel on the region, etc...
Is that an ISS statement or a ISS pilot's opinion?
My opinion, not that of ISS. Although we are charged with protecting assets, like anyone else in Eve, we unfortunately cannot guarantee anyone's safety, especially in a system that is populated by bored opportunist gatecampers after as many killmails as they can get...
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Block Ukx
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Posted - 2006.07.17 13:25:00 -
[18]
I have to agree with Lucius initial post.
I was extremely interested in renting a moon in EC-P8R after reading the ISS website and the ISS-Cassini business plan. I made the long journey to EC-P8R, and decided to dock my alt in ISS-Cassini to scout and determine the business potential in EC-P8R. So far IÆm very disappointed, and reading the posts made by ISS officials is quite disturbing.
I understand this is 0.0 space, and it doesnÆt bother me that people are always trying to kill me in EC-P8R. What that I donÆt see is how ISS-Cassini business plan can succeed if new entrepreneurs, builders, and traders are shot away from EC-P8R.
I probably canÆt pressure ISS to improve the situation in EC-P8R, so people not interested in fighting can develop a business in EC-P8R. The only people capable of pressuring ISS are its shareholders.
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Sylvia McGregor
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Posted - 2006.07.17 20:00:00 -
[19]
LOL for what a Busniss Plan Cassini ? They took the Station for free they dont have to build it :)
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.18 11:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sylvia McGregor LOL for what a Busniss Plan Cassini ? They took the Station for free they dont have to build it :)
They rent moons as none wants to rent offices in EC. What happens if you place POS at moon in EC and not pay to ISS? Probably they will shoot the POS which makes them no different than other claiming space alliances. And I wouldn't call them neutral after they shoot my POS.
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Ramjam Giles
Trading Union Corp Free Space Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.18 11:22:00 -
[21]
ISS basiclly just want your money. They don't even look after their own alliance members. They care about 2 things. 1) Who they can sucker to either join ISS or rent offices at thier outposts to make them even more money. And 2) Making sure their outposts are never attacked. As to patrolling their own systems, their navy is too carebear for that. They might have to fight a person who can pvp for real.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.18 15:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Originally by: Sylvia McGregor LOL for what a Busniss Plan Cassini ? They took the Station for free they dont have to build it :)
They rent moons as none wants to rent offices in EC. What happens if you place POS at moon in EC and not pay to ISS? Probably they will shoot the POS which makes them no different than other claiming space alliances. And I wouldn't call them neutral after they shoot my POS.
All posts by ISS members here are people speaking for themselves. Count TaSessine is the man to issue a statement. Anything else is a private opinion.
For the record: Construction costs of that outpost were re-imbursed to the builder.
I didn't realise Yesodic Nomads were in the starbase business, but yes, we do look to rent those moons to produce an ROI to our investors. As I'm sure you can appreciate, we are also trying to take steps to minimize piracy in EC-P8R. That's like ice skating up hill with Torrinos so close I admit, but ...
And as for shooting your POS, well if you're pirating a system, and using a POS as a strategic location to base your activities, then I can well understand the desire of _any_ alliance to remove that tower.
The ISS charter outlines neutrality, not outright stupidity.
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.18 19:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat ISS and ISSN are bunch of scumsuckers which can't defend own ships, nevermind of their assets. Do not expect them to defend you. All they can do is beg GM's to petition players instead of fight.
Now to the topic...
If you want to get safe jump to EC you can always ask DOOM/Exanimo/YNC for an entry fee. I am sure they will be helpful. If you are ISS/ISSN - don't bother.
Awwww, someone is a little bitter that their alliance mate was banned for using a can-lag exploit and all of our lost ships at that POS are being re-imbursed by CCP.
If you don't want petitions, don't use exploits - not difficult is it. In the meantime, we look forward to another 'free' bit of shooty shooty at the POS real soon
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.19 11:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: James Lyrus
I didn't realise Yesodic Nomads were in the starbase business, but yes, we do look to rent those moons to produce an ROI to our investors. As I'm sure you can appreciate, we are also trying to take steps to minimize piracy in EC-P8R. That's like ice skating up hill with Torrinos so close I admit, but ...
Nah, we don't have any POSes. It was a teoretical question. But from what you said, you only attack POS of corp who pirate in EC (or generally pirate). Why pay to ISS for moon than if you are not pirate?
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.19 11:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Awwww, someone is a little bitter that their alliance mate was banned for using a can-lag exploit and all of our lost ships at that POS are being re-imbursed by CCP.
If you don't want petitions, don't use exploits - not difficult is it. In the meantime, we look forward to another 'free' bit of shooty shooty at the POS real soon
This guy placed Pacman logo near POS, it was made from about 50-60 cans. I see more cans near gates in Nonni or in belts in empire. When I warped to POS i got the same lag as usual. I always have lag when warping to POS because client loads textures and models for POS structures.
GM decided to immediately ban DOOM member instead to ask for can removal. He banned old char basicly ruining few years of character development.
I don't blame GMs. They are overworked and tend to close cases as soon as possible. I blame ISS for bringing out of game tools to win the game. And for only this I will devote my time to pod every ISS member I can find.
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Erfnam
Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.19 13:59:00 -
[26]
They hate pacman. I thought can art was allowed, so long as it was not offensive. The guy should petition to get unbanned.
Based upon my extended evaluations of setting up a POS in that system, I am probably better off setting up shop in Aunenen.
P.S. The actions and words of a corporation's members reflect upon the corporation, regardless if their posts are personal opinion. Afterall, a corporation is nothing without its pilots.
Recruiting
Casino - Monitor Thread |
Greyshadow
Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.07.19 14:39:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Greyshadow on 19/07/2006 14:40:05
Originally by: Lucius Ventrue
ISS does not protect their investors or protect their investments? Maybe I am completely missing something here...
Being realistic any corp/alliance in the business of renting offices etc will provide the resources for you to rent from them but its a completely different matter about protection, I'm sure every so often if you asked in local someone your renting from 'may' help but like I said they provide a rental service in most cases and not a protection one. EC-P8R is very hostile and to be honest the gate is camped by different corp/alliances very often so you have to be careful whenever in that system or for that matter any system.
"Now you see me, now you don't!" |
Vladimir Norkoff
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Posted - 2006.07.20 00:35:00 -
[28]
Note To Self - In the off chance I manage to get a few billion ISK, do NOT rent a moon from a corp that does not also provide protection.. Instead just set up shop in some BFE star cluster where I still have to protect myself, but don't have to pay rent.. (ie. WTF would I be paying rent for? Are there solar-system wide BBQs on fridays or something?)
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Abslom Daakk
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Posted - 2006.07.20 05:04:00 -
[29]
Well said Vlad.
I can appreciate ISS's stance on not wanting to be my mommy in .0 space, and its attempts at being neutral. However, ISS does go to great lengths to advertise "opportunity" and encourages "commerce" at and near their outposts. Read between the lines, and you quickly can see all this "opportunity" ISS talks about comes at a price, which are substantial taxes and ongoing fees, and I ain't talking about the offices.
Customers are assets. Can not one's assets be stolen or disappear if not protected? How can ISS even have commerce and trade opportunity when its customers cannot get to them, or get back out to bring more goods in?
Interestingly enough, (and I may be wrong) wasn't BoB granted a substantial portion of ISS Cassini and Marginis shares to allow ISS to operate outposts in these areas? In essence BoB is getting paid a cut of the money ISS's customers spend to be/get there and then BoB gets another piece of the pie when they gank them on the way out. Nice arrangement!
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.20 06:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Erfnam They hate pacman. I thought can art was allowed, so long as it was not offensive. The guy should petition to get unbanned.
Its allowed as long as it doesn't cause any changes in the game. You have to do it at high sec moons. Anywhere where there is a POS counts very strongly as this:
Quote: You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
60 cans cause a lot of lag, and a POS, that causes a lot of unfair death.
As for the YNC guy: you are complaining about them needing out of game methods to beat their opponents. So, whats completely lagging out the opposition then? Ah yes, ingame methods... right?
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