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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10881
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Posted - 2014.08.06 12:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Reserved for later. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
556
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 for CCP and the CSM here. Yaay!!!! |
tgl3
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
514
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 for second C4 statics Member of the EVE Blog Pack - Through Newb Eyes
Twitter - TG_3 |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
902
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Posted - 2014.08.06 14:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
This idea seems reasonable, opening up opportunities while still retaining a level of control. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
38
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
As a player who lived in a c4 wormhole for quite some time(and no longer does) I'm welcoming the changes of more statics with open arms. I do however believe, that the changes are not really concentrating on the "real" issue with c4's. And there are a few.
1. The logistical part of c4's are a nightmare, they're always behind atleast one WH (c3 or c4) whereas a c3 can connect directly to K-space. While it's awesome for someone doing PvP, to have access to more potential prey it's still as hard as before to do actual fueling, and/or buy a skillbook, update a clone... Or whatever you need in k-space.
2. The sites compared to the isk value, is simply not worth it. C3's offer anomalies that are far easier to run, than in c4's. Not only does the c4's do way more damage, they also neut alot more. But perhaps the biggest difference, is the range of the spawn's. Most spawns, are at atleast 80-120 km away, which is a major difference compared to any class below, that is more in the range of ~30-60 km away.
A C3 site, average out at about 60-80 million isk, and a c4 at about 100-110. You can run a c3 solo, you can not(without alot of bling) run a c4 solo. This means you need to team up with a buddy, and that right there halfs your income per site, and to some extend makes it worth less than just doing the c3 yourself.
Otherwise all the other changes seems okay, with abit of iteration. However one thing i think you should consider, is to increase the amount of WH's of all classes, seeing that it's getting more and more crowded.
/Fonac fanboy of CCP Fozzie! |
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
70
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not terribly excited simply due to that fact that we've recently occupied a C4 specifically because it had a single C3 static. That environment suited us well. Obviously a concern is what completely random static we will end up with will very much determine the suitability of the hole for us.
Is there any information that could be made available on what percentages C4s will get regarding static types? Not that it specifically would help since what we get is what we get but if we're talking a high percentage leading to C5/C6 vs. lower then we're more likely to start planning for the worst :) |
Lapin Poilu
Burning Equilibrium Fallen Defiance
5
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think this is a great idea.
It would be cool if there was a way to tell which hole is which before warping to it, so we could keep one of them closed for a while if we chose to. That might be making it too easy though
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1678
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
+ 1
Some people aren't going to like it but i think this change is good for the overall health of WH space. +1 |
Luminocity
The Dark Revenants PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
15
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lapin Poilu wrote:I think this is a great idea. It would be cool if there was a way to tell which hole is which before warping to it, so we could keep one of them closed for a while if we chose to. That might be making it too easy though Should be a non-issue with the Hyperion release. And I quote from the dev blog:Quote:As of Hyperion, we are planning to have K162 signatures appear as soon as the first player jumps through their wormhole connection. This prevents players in the destination system from receiving unfair early intelligence while also ensuring that a vigilant player can determine if a potentially hostile intruder has entered their system through a new wormhole connection. |
Traiori
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
56
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lapin Poilu wrote:I think this is a great idea. It would be cool if there was a way to tell which hole is which before warping to it, so we could keep one of them closed for a while if we chose to. That might be making it too easy though
Holes only open when you jump through them now. Buff to your lifestyle and other C2 lifestyle I suppose. |
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
557
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fonac wrote:As a player who lived in a c4 wormhole for quite some time(and no longer does) I'm welcoming the changes of more statics with open arms. I do however believe, that the changes are not really concentrating on the "real" issue with c4's. And there are a few.
1. The logistical part of c4's are a nightmare, they're always behind atleast one WH (c3 or c4) whereas a c3 can connect directly to K-space. While it's awesome for someone doing PvP, to have access to more potential prey it's still as hard as before to do actual fueling, and/or buy a skillbook, update a clone... Or whatever you need in k-space.
2. The sites compared to the isk value, is simply not worth it. C3's offer anomalies that are far easier to run, than in c4's. Not only does the c4's do way more damage, they also neut alot more. But perhaps the biggest difference, is the range of the spawn's. Most spawns, are at atleast 80-120 km away, which is a major difference compared to any class below, that is more in the range of ~30-60 km away.
A C3 site, average out at about 60-80 million isk, and a c4 at about 100-110. You can run a c3 solo, you can not(without alot of bling) run a c4 solo. This means you need to team up with a buddy, and that right there halfs your income per site, and to some extend makes it worth less than just doing the c3 yourself.
Otherwise all the other changes seems okay, with abit of iteration. However one thing i think you should consider, is to increase the amount of WH's of all classes, seeing that it's getting more and more crowded.
/Fonac fanboy of CCP Fozzie!
I used to live C4 myself and logistics was a nightmare. I do believe it is a little easier now though. Its a commitment to be in C4 space. I think it should still stay about as "tough".
I do agree with the C4 site running though. That needs to be looked at. With the Dual static though the ability to farm the other wormholes should make it a bit more viable (extra connection = extra isk).
Yaay!!!! |
Adarnof
Free Trade Monopoly You Are Being Monitored
18
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
I greatly look forward to this change +1 |
TomyLobo
U2EZ Corp
133
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
How is this useful to those who already have a C4 with C2 or C1 static and already get a ton of traffic? I personally think this should be implemented only on C4 systems with static C4s and higher. |
Luminocity
The Dark Revenants PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
15
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Logistics for living in a C4 is not a nightmare. It all depends on the capabilities for planning/execution of the inhabitants. If anything it will be more difficult now because rolling for a suitable chain to haul through is hindered by two new factors that were not in place before: a. you need to deal with two statics instead of one (rolling both or leaving a scout on one) b. mass affects the distance a ship ends up off the wormhole after jumping (using Orca-s to mass the wormhole is more difficult) |
Luminocity
The Dark Revenants PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
15
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
TomyLobo wrote:How is this useful to those who already have a C4 with C2 or C1 static and already get a ton of traffic? I personally think this should be implemented only on C4 systems with static C4s and higher. I support this product and/or service!
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WoAz
Dark Mason Society
10
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Will the statics be low-end(C1-C3) and high-end(C4-C6) each? Can a hole have two same-class statics? |
Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Luminocity wrote:Logistics for living in a C4 is not a nightmare. It all depends on the capabilities for planning/execution of the inhabitants. If anything it will be more difficult now because rolling for a suitable chain to haul through is hindered by two new factors that were not in place before: a. you need to deal with two statics instead of one (rolling both or leaving a scout on one) b. mass affects the distance a ship ends up off the wormhole after jumping (using Orca-s to mass the wormhole is more difficult)
As someone mentioned earlier, it should probably keep the "remoteness" The point however still stands, that c4's does not offer enough reward who does the hassle.
And i dont think this "little" change does anything to change that.
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Kennesaw Breach
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
52
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Before we moved to our current hole, we lived in a C4 with a static C4. This was... isolated, to say the least. Logistics chains were usually at least 4 jumps deep, sometimes 7-8 (usually we gave up after 8 jumps if we still hadn't found a route to kspace, and rolled the hole to start again). This level of isolation was great for staying uninterrupted during PVE, but that's about it. After about a year of living there, the corp moved to a new hole with much better likelihood of routes in/out, as well as more daily pvp opportunities.
So all that said, will the new w-space static for the C4s be guaranteed of a different type than the current static? Or could you possibly have a C4 with a static C4 and another static C4? I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that possibility, but I'm curious.
A C4 with two static C3s could be a pvp dream, since C3s seem to be the most heavily k162'ed holes in existence.
I will also agree with the notion that C4 sites tend not to be as desirable as C3 sites. The numbers and time required to run C4 sites scale up much faster than the profit from those sites. I honestly cannot recall the last time we bothered with a relic or data site in a C4, when there were C3 sites available to run.
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Luminocity
The Dark Revenants PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
15
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
WoAz wrote:... Can a hole have two same-class statics? Kennesaw Breach wrote:So all that said, will the new w-space static for the C4s be guaranteed of a different type than the current static? Or could you possibly have a C4 with a static C4 and another static C4? I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that possibility, but I'm curious. As per the dev blog no, the additional static can not be to the same system class as the first one. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10906
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
The new static is indeed guaranteed to be for a different class than your current static. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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TomyLobo
U2EZ Corp
133
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just confirming that with the new static mechanic, the K162 side will NOT spawn (un probable) until the residents from the other side jump through. So does this mean one can effectively seal their static until they are ready to jump through? |
Luminocity
The Dark Revenants PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
15
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
TomyLobo wrote:Just confirming that with the new static mechanic, the K162 side will NOT spawn (un probable) until the residents from the other side jump through. So does this mean one can effectively seal their static until they are ready to jump through? The the outer side (k162 side) of a static connection of a given wormhole would not spawn before the residents of *that* originating wormhole jump through, yes. As to sealing themselves until ready - yes, but not much more so than it currently already is.
Currently if C4 residents collapse their static connection and do not warp to the new one the effect is the same |
Kennesaw Breach
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
52
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
TomyLobo wrote:Just confirming that with the new static mechanic, the K162 side will NOT spawn (un probable) until the residents from the other side jump through. So does this mean one can effectively seal their static until they are ready to jump through?
Nothing new about that. Common practice has always been to roll your holes then not warp to the new sig if you want to be uninterrupted in your home system for PVE or whatever. Now it just means 2 holes to roll, and you can warp to them but not jump through. |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
62
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The new static is indeed guaranteed to be for a different class than your current static.
Implying it will not lead to C7 but wormhole space only. Unless you actually do not want to give that information out it might be good to be a bit more specific on the amount of new statics (f.e. 20 C4-C4s will turn into C4-C4-C1s). Otherwise questions like this will keep coming. Otherwise just tell us that we have to scan them all ourselves |
Alundil
Isogen 5
627
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think that adding a second static to C4 whs is a good thing.
And the fact that this is a simple 'add another static' like we've been asking for is good. I also like that it could connect to any type of wspace.
Nice
I'm right behind you |
Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
284
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Making C4s not only useful but a platform for destruction ! AMAZING.
This makes me sooo happy. Its like a c2 but doesn't have a boring K-space connection!
Can you imagine how awesome a C4 to C4 to C2 would be?
That would be 1 Kspace always, and 3 Wspace connetions!! ALWAYS!
I think I'm going to pass out.
+1
Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com |
Alundil
Isogen 5
627
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
I would further state that the income potential in C4 should be looked into as it is currently more valuable to run C3 sites than C4 sites. Someone mentioned this one page one but just reiterating so it gets noticed.
I'm right behind you |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
564
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
I would have a issue with a C4 having a new C1 static, as it is extremely difficult to roll (the max mass it can accept is a retriever, to roll requires 20+ retriever passes).
If you were to do sometype of C4-C1 static, please increase the Max mass capable of fitting into all C1's to 60,000,000 (up from 20,000,000).
This permits Hulks to jump into C1's. And also denies all battleships from jumping into C1's EXCEPT the Nestor.
The Nestor is 56,000,000 mass. With 1 plate, its 59,750,000. This means that no battleship could fit into a C1 except a Nestor. You don't unbalance C1 functionality, but you give it a bit more flexibility, especially if they are to be more C4-C1 connections.
Yaay!!!! |
Kennesaw Breach
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
52
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Luminocity wrote:WoAz wrote:... Can a hole have two same-class statics? Kennesaw Breach wrote:So all that said, will the new w-space static for the C4s be guaranteed of a different type than the current static? Or could you possibly have a C4 with a static C4 and another static C4? I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that possibility, but I'm curious. As per the dev blog no, the additional static can not be to the same system class as the first one.
Thanks, missed that in the text. I think the only people who won't like that are the ones thriving on the isolation, but I don't have much sympathy for them. |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sounds good to me...
Can you also make it that C4 remains forever a no settlement zone, may be by having an effect that slowly damage POS towers over time, giving current residents enough time to move on, and preventing anchoring a POS
By the way, I do think that all WH should also have a medium term damaging effect on un POs that are not online...
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html |
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