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Scrubnbubble
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Posted - 2014.09.08 01:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi CCP,
Here is my feed back for Mass-Based Spawn Distance.
I really do not like it. Do you know how impossible it is for small gangs to catch a covert ops T3 now? Gone are the days of T3's spawning too close to a WH to cloak. If you want to live forever and never die all you need to do is fly a covert ops ship. Go through a WH, cloak up because there is no risk in running away now.
Now, I know there are lots of ways of bringing someone out of cloak... But, I'm just talking about small gang. We usually run with like 3-4 ships.
While trying to fix "rage rolling" which I honestly feel like isn't even a big deal at all and probably a small minority of WH dwellers have an issue with. You've destroyed PvP for small corps in WH space AND PvE.
I know everyone throws around "omg only the bears will care". But honestly, even the non-bears love the bears. Why on earth would you want bears to move out of WH space?!! I vote bring ALL the bears in! EVERYONE loves killing bears, it's fun. Even a "bear" like me loves killing those who are slightly more a "bear" then me.
Most everyone always flies covert ops due to no local. How about giving us the ability to kill covert ops on wh's back.
Sincerely,
The biggest noob on earth - Scrub |
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Posted - 2014.09.08 23:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Enthropic wrote:Hi Fozzie, in case you read this.
Based on your last post in that thread, I understand that you are watching the metrics of your changes. I dont need to know what data it is and how you are evaluating it, but would it be possible to give a rough estimate of the time frame? Before some random dude jumps on me, Im not interested in a discussion about how long CCP should collect data or what you think why this change is good or bad, just trying my luck on getting some info whether its reasonable to expect an update/reaction from CCP on the current situation soon, or in weeks, or months. Im sure that would help me a lot, if you dont mind me asking CCP.
thanks
This ^
It would be nice if CCP could keep the discussion going, a little communication would go a long way. There is a C5 open to our hole with hostiles in it. We would very much love to come out and play, but let's be honest.... 3v7 isn't much of a fight. Would rather roll the hole, but I don't feel like losing a dread. So we're just afk cloaked in our hole hoping they'll log so we can roll it. And no, I don't trust them enough for a "fair fight". This is EvE where you screw people at any chance you get.
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Posted - 2014.09.13 03:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
So how does this work? Do we have to hit over 100 pages in this thread before CCP realizes that we don't like/want mass based spawn distances? |
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Posted - 2014.09.13 15:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Any dev is welcome to join my corp, then you can see just how small corps try to function in WH space now. |
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Posted - 2014.09.15 16:43:00 -
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Mass-Based Spawn Distance needs to go for multiple reasons, not just rolling holes.
Most people fly covert ops in WH space, it used to be that you ran a risk going through a hole and spawning too close to it to cloak up. Now there is NO risk as you're always placed far enough away where you can cloak up and easily maneuver through anyone camping the other side. We've missed multiple kills so far due to this, and we've been able to safely live due to this. No fights were had, no one died.
Rolling holes is harder. Not that big of a deal for the large corps, but I think this REALLY effects the small corps (like us). Yeah you can try and close a hole quickly once you open your fresh static. But you alienate the small corps which I would say makes up the majority of WH space by not allowing them to manage their own space like they previously have been able to do. We had a C4 spawn into our hole and the corp tried to close the hole. They brought in two BS, we had our hic ready. We caught both of them in the bubble but they were SO FAR APART from each other we could only manage to get point on one before the other one burned 3KM out of the hic bubble and got away. I mean, when they went through the hole they were like 40KM away from each other. If this was pre hyperion they would of been forced to fight and bring in reinforcements to save the ships (which they had). But instead, they let one die so they could get the other one out.
And the worst thing this has done is change the WH culture that everyone is used to and loves. WH space is known for it's close combat brawling on holes, that's what people love, that's what people skilled up for. In trying to fix "rage rolling" which really isn't that big of a deal (imo) CCP changed the culture in a big way that the community DOES NOT LIKE. You're lucky if you can get a fight on a hole. It's EASY to get away. And you've screwed the little guys in the process by not allowing them to manage their own space. CCP has turned WH space into Null with no local, literally, that's just about what it is now. |
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Posted - 2014.09.18 00:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Tiger Tesla wrote:Enthropic wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote: It wasn't needed. It wasn't wanted. It sux. Get rid of it.
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Posted - 2014.09.18 17:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
LastRound wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote: "You can only quote 5 times in a single post." Damnit!
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Posted - 2014.09.22 21:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Quote: 2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections So basically a faster way for the big corps to seed caps into someone's system? Hmm... I'm sure Lazerhawks would love that.
Lazerhawks scare me |
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Posted - 2014.09.23 01:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
How about a C7 that you can easily fit titans through, and then the last escalation is a huge drone base like the ones you find the wrecks of in missions. It requires multiple titans and doomsday devices to take down. I'm thinking.... something along the lines of a huge base with sleepers spewing out of it, like a scene from the matrix. A place where titans go to die... pve wise.
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Posted - 2014.09.25 01:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Look, we're almost up to 100 pages again!!! Let's see who's posts make the next cut! |
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Posted - 2014.09.25 02:41:00 -
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Gunner GzR wrote:Well it Is difficult to get ppl to play eve now with the changes.. Our pilots are tired of scanning wh after wh to find content and find nothing. They have moved on to other games. We has ssc pay us a visit and bait us. I had 3 ppl on line that was it. I went to the other game channel where there was 15 and no one would log into eve for the fight.. That is just sad SSC always bring a good fight and i wanted to engage so bad but not with just 3 pilots..So now i am getting bored and i do not even look forward to getting home and logging into eve anymore, As where b4 i did.. Just sad ..thanks ccp for Not Listening to your wh pilots and ruining wh space and the game for the great pilots of w space. Except you hans
I feel your pain, I think I just scanned around 120 sigs in 7 or 8 holes in our more then empty dead chain. I think there were maybe 1 or 2 active corps in those holes. I think ccp just needs to make WH space EASIER, that way it'll draw all the bears in, they'll quickly learn how to fight =) |
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Posted - 2014.09.25 05:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Andiedeath wrote:LOL Wormhole space IS EASY! How much more easy do people want it????
Those that leave the game over the changes are the people we dont playing the game as they are the ones that play other games while waiting for a ping in facebook/teamspeak for a fight and bring appsolutely nothing to content generation for the rest of the EVE community. Lets focus on finding new players that actually want to contribute to the game community, instead of whining constantly about changes that are infact great (for the most part).
Well I never said it was hard
Do you really think mass based spawn distances are a good thing? Honestly.... all it does is provide safety for every covert ops ship out there, prevents pvp NOT because people are afraid to farm, but because when a cov ops T3 spawns 10KM away from the hole it makes it much harder to bring out of cloak. Or battleships that are spawning 15KM away from the hole almost out of range of hic bubbles. Sure if you're a large corp, probably not a big deal to get point on them. But for the rest of us we're a little limited and it makes it harder.
I don't think mass based spawn distances have killed farming, or maybe ganking ppl farming, but it has killed on hole pvp. Two nights ago I had my hic orbiting the hole at 500m waiting for some russians to come in. They come in through a scorp and spawned 15KM away from the hole. What's the point of a hic on a hole now when ships can burn 1km and warp off?
Brawling on holes is dead. |
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Posted - 2014.09.29 04:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pritovsky Pootis wrote:Niskin wrote:To paraphrase Clint Eastwood: "A developer has got to know its customer's limitations."
You cannot control the choices players make when you do not control the entire list of options they have to choose from. Every player has 2 options that they start with before CCP adds any to the list. They are "leave this space" and "quit the game." The former may be CCP's intention from time to time, for valid reasons. The latter should never be intended.
Players make choices based on their own limitations, such as: available playtime, available resources, available assistance from others and yes, of course, risk of loss. Of those limitations the only one CCP can affect directly is risk. The others can be indirectly affected but not in an immediate fashion.
So playtime is out of their control. If there were a graph of playtime mapped against fun, peak playtime would meet up with peak fun. If something is less fun, or to use a term repeated in this thread --tedious--, that reduces fun and reduces playtime. As some have mentioned, increased reward along with increased risk can balance out fun.
Available resources are out of their control, they aren't going to just dump isk in people's wallets. They can adjust the rate at which players can earn isk but the effect is not immediate.
Available assistance means friends online and is only directly affected by available playtime which is tied to fun.
That leaves risk, the one thing CCP can directly affect, so they grabbed it and wrenched it up to 11. When I say that I mean the combination of Mass-Based-Jump, Extra Statics, Extra Randoms, and Frig Holes. These features could all have merit in isolation, but together they kicked the risk up high enough that people are ignoring CCP's recommendation of "accept more risk" and choosing the always available "nah, I'll do something else." Anybody who had a proper understanding of the choices would have seen that coming.
So what happens now? Well the choice list for CCP is much shorter: Revert the changes, Keep the changes and hope new people move in, or Pick and choose and hope it's the right formula for fun. I don't know what the right formula would be, but it has to take into account that players first question on risk is "how much of the risk can I control for?" The question of "can I afford to lose this?" comes after you decide how much risk you are actually facing.
Any developer that fails to understand the limitations of what they actually have control over will force people into decisions that developer won't like in the end. You CANNOT force people to play a certain way, but you can force them to choose between playing that way or quitting.
One last thing to discuss. Why is CCP trying to fix a symptom rather than the problem that created the symptom? Rolling holes is not the problem, it's a player-made solution to the actual problem of having nothing to do until something changes. The choices were always: wait, logoff, or roll the hole. If you want to fix the actual problem, find a way for people that want fights to find them easier, and people who want isolation to find it easier. Then play with the variables on how long isolation can last, or how often it can happen, and what kind of fights can be found. Boom, content.
Longer/wider chains won't get fights by default, for reasons already covered in this thread. The depth at which players will commit to a fight or continue searching is not under CCP's control. It is yet another limitation that is controlled by the players themselves. A massive +1 to this. Explains the whole situation far better than I ever could.
This on a massive scale^ |
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Posted - 2014.10.01 04:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Oceanus is out, here's an update for everyone.
Worm holes look cooler. Massed Based Spawn distances still suck. I now live in a pink worm hole.
That is all. |
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