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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
164
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Posted - 2014.08.26 19:20:00 -
[1501] - Quote
Bleedingthrough wrote:calaretu wrote: It takes 4 characters with 100mn mwd battleships (and at least one of those need to know basic addition of numbers) two passes. Unless you are lazy and only willing to roll with orcas this change will have no real risk effect.. raptor navy should know better then the arguments presented above
You will die without being polarized even in cruisers. Prove: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=24970053Devoters will land 10 km off the WH. Good luck getting them back home. It feels like a gate now. And btw. we are talking about a 3 bil C2-C5 connection. Edit: And a few mins later they have enough ppl online so we could not even roll if we had enough ppl online to close it in one go. Now what? Cant split their forces, can't brawl it out (would be suicide), offline for the rest of the day?
Eh. Kite? Snipe? Something else creative? I am sure you guys have more doctrines than pure brawling. The killmail you link is exactly why this change is a good thing. Also have scouts so you know what you jump into so you dont jump a vigi into a t3 sitting and waiting. ~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ |
Chicken Exroofer
Regional Assault and Recon
34
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Posted - 2014.08.26 19:29:00 -
[1502] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread. I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out. If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.
People have felt "strongly" since about 30 seconds after this idea was floated. Counting deletions, something like 130 plus pages worth of "strongly"
There have been posts nearly a full screen high, stating clearly and concisely what the results of this would be.
The WH csm has stated "clearly and concisely" what the vast majority of wh residents think.
Major WH corps have "strongly", and "clearly and concisely" their take on the whole thing.
Small WH corps like mine have "strongly", and "clearly and concisely" their take on the whole thing.
What did you think would happen? |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
758
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 19:29:00 -
[1503] - Quote
calaretu wrote:Bleedingthrough wrote:calaretu wrote: It takes 4 characters with 100mn mwd battleships (and at least one of those need to know basic addition of numbers) two passes. Unless you are lazy and only willing to roll with orcas this change will have no real risk effect.. raptor navy should know better then the arguments presented above
You will die without being polarized even in cruisers. Prove: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=24970053Devoters will land 10 km off the WH. Good luck getting them back home. It feels like a gate now. And btw. we are talking about a 3 bil C2-C5 connection. Edit: And a few mins later they have enough ppl online so we could not even roll if we had enough ppl online to close it in one go. Now what? Cant split their forces, can't brawl it out (would be suicide), offline for the rest of the day? Eh. Kite? Snipe? Something else creative? I am sure you guys have more doctrines than pure brawling. The killmail you link is exactly why this change is a good thing. Also have scouts so you know what you jump into so you dont jump a vigi into a t3 sitting and waiting.
I would say the opposite - it means that during off-peak times its effectively going to have an impact on the activity of what corp members can do, especially those whose work schedules, etc. might not quite match the rest of the corp. Also knowing the player in question I doubt he just randomly jumped it in unscouted without it being part of a plan.
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Ahost Gceo
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
179
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Posted - 2014.08.26 19:34:00 -
[1504] - Quote
Just so you know CCP, I got one CSM member who liked my comment on being disappointed with your lack of concern about feedback. I would hazard a guess that I wasn't the only person who said the same exact thing the he +1'd either.
Your own CSM isn't even pleased with you. You'll need a tech-3 damage control for this one. I'm a friggin' banana. |
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.08.26 19:57:00 -
[1505] - Quote
Glasgow Dunlop wrote:If your going to do this with wormholes, why not jumpbridges and cynos as well? This. |
Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
37
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Posted - 2014.08.26 20:01:00 -
[1506] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:Glasgow Dunlop wrote:If your going to do this with wormholes, why not jumpbridges and cynos as well? This.
No because we do not wish this mechanic on anyone else its that bad So Much Space |
AutumnWind1983
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
107
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Posted - 2014.08.26 20:14:00 -
[1507] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread. I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out. If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction. Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that. While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.
Pull your head out of your ass and go look at this thread and the unofficial thread for feedback about how the community changes. Beyond that, you have a ****** public reputation for lying to the family members of those laid off so remind us again why we should take your or any other CCP member at face value? All you do is lie, obfuscate, and ignore. James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org |
Siliya
The Malleus Maleficarum Random-Violence
3
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Posted - 2014.08.26 20:56:00 -
[1508] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread. I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out. If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction. Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that. While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.
Seriously Falcon ... how Dense are the Devs ... the 1st thread went 30 pages but has been ignored based on "incorrect ranges" this thread has hit 75 pages and was ignored because someone was on a power trip
now you want us to do this all over again on yet ANOTHER thread when we know our feedback is little more to you than **** in a bucket
Im sure some people will take it there
Im also fairly sure you have a betting pool at the office about how long this thread will go or how many hoops you will get us to jump through over this change
like has been said ... look at the 1st 50 pages or so for all the feedback you need... repeating it is worthless and it wastes our time and our breath |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2301
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 21:13:00 -
[1509] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.
While you may see the players here as avatars on a forum, please be aware that most, if not all are real people behind those faces, pretty much all of which feel passionately strong about the amazing universe CCP has created. Also many of which have far more experience living in wormholes than the very devs who proposed these ideas (I seem to recall CCP Fozzie stating at least once he has very little WH experience).
Most of these real players behind the avatars are not simply risk adverse, nor change adverse, but have a pretty good handle on the effects these changes have on WH dynamics and content creation. So it is not surprising to have the response seen in this thread when CCP asks for input and then seems to largely dismiss it.
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Enthropic
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
113
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 21:16:00 -
[1510] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread.
I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out.
Falcon, I appreciate you posting here, I really do, but I need to reply to this.. You appreciate that SOME OF US are unhappy? Some of us? Really? Or maybe literally rather almost EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN WH SPACE MAYBE? Maybe you read that thread and figure out for yourself what the majority of people here want?
CCP Falcon wrote: If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction.
You cant possibly post that sentence with a straight face, can you?? We had 30+ pages on that very topic before it got locked, and now 70+ pages on this 'feedback' thread. Both threads together had 39 THOUSAND views. Are you saying that your 'development team' seriously now needs to be pointed in that direction. Do I need to conclude from your statement that the feedback you got so far in your dedicated feedback threads was not noticed by now by your development team??
Do you expect us now to repeat our arguments, and they WERE civil for the first dozens of pages, to post the same again in anothe thread? really?
CCP Falcon wrote: While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.
Maybe you guys should then also be made aware that some of us lived in WH space for YEARS, and some of us put hundreds of hours into this game. Are you surprised we feel strong about this brainfart of epic proportions? Whats next, maybe we introduce a mass-based land distance on WH after warp? Would that not spice things up, and make WH space a lot more exciting when your caps land 13 clicks off the bookmark from now on, when you initiate warp to a wh? Im sure we would love that as well, lets give feedback, shall we?
How do you think we felt when we saw you guys on air on twitch, telling the rest of Eve how awesome your tweaks and new balances to WH space are, despite the fact that the vast majority of your WS-space players despise this new mechanic and gave you good reasons and feedback. You ignored us, and worst of all, we got ignored without receiving any convincing explanation of why CCP (or was it just Fozzie?) feels that these WH mechanics needed to be changed? Now you guys are really surprised that people are getting SERIOUSLY pissed off?
Really?
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
641
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 21:21:00 -
[1511] - Quote
Like the change so far, jumping with my T3 has gotten more convenient, no more spawning <2km from wh :) . |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
759
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 21:22:00 -
[1512] - Quote
Enthropic wrote: Or maybe literally rather almost EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN WH SPACE MAYBE? Maybe you read that thread and figure out for yourself what the majority of people here want?
Thing is sometimes what everyone wants isn't the best thing to actually do... in which case you'd expect some kind of explanation and reasoning to be presented with some solid counter points to the issues raised... instead we get silence (which given how well written some people's posts have been basically tells me there isn't a strong counter argument for want of any other explanation) a meaningless canned statement and the feature rammed through any way. If this is the way that things are going to be done I can't see that much of a future for myself with the game and its with a heavy heart I even consider that as a possibility. |
Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
39
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 21:24:00 -
[1513] - Quote
So before this change i would jump in, bookmark, map, Keep at range, prop, cloak
Now it jump in, bookmark, map, cloak
Before I had a chance of getting caught, now its almost impossible to catch a covops. So Much Space |
Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
39
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 21:28:00 -
[1514] - Quote
Also the increase in WH's is FANTASTIC........Except for the fact the holes we are getting are dead and dying.....guess what its a ***** to roll for no good reason
Also found a farming fleet today......through a frig hole.........cant do jack **** against that in frigs So Much Space |
Enthropic
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
114
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 21:36:00 -
[1515] - Quote
Faren Shalni wrote:Also the increase in WH's is FANTASTIC........Except for the fact the holes we are getting are dead and dying.....guess what its a ***** to roll for no good reason
Also found a farming fleet today......through a frig hole.........cant do jack **** against that in frigs
Lol no **** ^^ |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 22:05:00 -
[1516] - Quote
Durzel wrote:... Whether people are upset that they can't just bear in peace while their corpies are asleep by critting/collapsing their incoming holes in safety is a secondary consideration - but let's not pretend this is about PvP and the precious risk-averse small corps who suddenly won't commit to fights they didn't commit to before anyway, or some nonsense about solo/small entities jumping caps with next to no support because carriers are magic force mulitpliers or some ****. The elephant in the room that people are secretly annoyed about with this change is that:
- People suddenly can't bear safely by closing up holes with just 1 or 2 accounts
- People can't have weak ass fights on wormholes safe in the knowledge they can just jump in and already be in jump range to jump back out again if they get shot too much
None of this has anything to do with meaningful PvP really, it's just another form of risk aversion that people aren't prepared to admit is what it is. People who are risk averse and wouldn't have warped to a wormhole to collapse it when you connected to them pre-Hyperion are going to continue not doing so, so nothing changes. edit: People talking about cynos throwing ships 10km+ out from the cyno are completely disregarding the fact that if you jump to a cyno in a cap where are you going to go from there if you get tackled? You can't jump back out like you can if you're sat on a wormhole, you can't even use a gate. Don't conflate the two completely different paradigms. Well said! "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html |
OMEGA REDUX
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 22:06:00 -
[1517] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread. I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out. If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction. Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that. While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated. stick it where the sun dont shine |
OMEGA REDUX
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 22:21:00 -
[1518] - Quote
i wonder how long the above post of mine lasts before some ccp or isd deletes it because they want to be treated with oh so much respect but wont treat us the same. |
OMEGA REDUX
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 22:23:00 -
[1519] - Quote
AutumnWind1983 wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread. I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out. If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction. Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that. While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated. Pull your head out of your ass and go look at this thread and the unofficial thread for feedback about how the community changes. Beyond that, you have a ****** public reputation for lying to the family members of those laid off so remind us again why we should take your or any other CCP member at face value? All you do is lie, obfuscate, and ignore. QFT |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
764
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 22:37:00 -
[1520] - Quote
Think for a second - every time you've collapsed your static so as to be able to bear - how many of those times has there either been someone there to catch your would have been slowboating/bouncing collapsing capital or its been likely there might have been someone there to catch it?
Unfortunately I can't agree with Durzel - this has little to do with 1-2 people collapsing wormholes to bear - the times when this impacts that other than to unnecessarily increase the time to perform that are edge cases when you might happen to be open to another group that is both larger than you and also happens to be active at that time. It would be like focusing on that 1 time a "wonder" drug has cured a cancer patient and ignoring the 99 other patients in the trial that were killed by it and then using that drug as the standard way to treat cancer patients - in isolation it sounds great, widen the scope and its another story. For the sake of fringe cases a whole load of additional tedium is being added to the nominal case.
His second point is a bit more of a mixed one as that can be a bit of a weak scenario but also it can enable an entity to test the waters in a fight against someone they know on paper they can't possibly beat on an open field engagement with the potential for unexpected outcomes.
Regarding cynos - one use for them is to move capitals about either to drop them on a station or POS - should cynos be changed so that depending on mass your always dropped out of docking range? (Also jump freighters and how they are moved about). |
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epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
1128
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 22:57:00 -
[1521] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Think for a second - every time you've collapsed your static so as to be able to bear - how many of those times has there either been someone there to catch your would have been slowboating/bouncing collapsing capital or its been likely there might have been someone there to catch it? Unfortunately I can't agree with Durzel - this has little to do with 1-2 people collapsing wormholes to bear - the times when this impacts that other than to unnecessarily increase the time to perform that are edge cases when you might happen to be open to another group that is both larger than you and also happens to be active at that time. It would be like focusing on that 1 time a "wonder" drug has cured a cancer patient and ignoring the 99 other patients in the trial that were killed by it and then using that drug as the standard way to treat cancer patients - in isolation it sounds great, widen the scope and its another story. For the sake of fringe cases a whole load of additional tedium is being added to the nominal case. His second point is a bit more of a mixed one as that can be a bit of a weak scenario but also it can enable an entity to test the waters in a fight against someone they know on paper they can't possibly beat on an open field engagement with the potential for unexpected outcomes. Regarding cynos - one use for them is to move capitals about either to drop them on a station or POS - should cynos be changed so that depending on mass your always dropped out of docking range? (Also jump freighters and how they are moved about).
Wishing luck based mechanics on other areas of eve is sorely tempting considering how we have been treated, but introducing more of this horribly destructive and harmful mechanic, where you live or die due to the RNG, will do nothing for their game enjoyment, or player retention.
After all no one likes to see all their efforts destroyed just due to "bad luck" with no option to mitigate against it through skill training tactics or choices.
So in short it is bad enough in wormholes without it infecting new areas, like Ebola, one just does not wish it upon even your worst enemy. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
765
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 23:05:00 -
[1522] - Quote
Definitely wouldn't wish that kind of cyno change (none the least I move enough caps/blackops around lowsec as it is) but it is in many ways comparable to implementing that kind of change. |
Ned Black
Driders
79
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Posted - 2014.08.26 23:08:00 -
[1523] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread. I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out. If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction. Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that. While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.
Whats the point?
You guys did not listen when you had the feedback handed to you time and time again... why would you listen now?
Posting in this thread was a complete waste of time... I really can't be arsed wasting my time a second time. |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3706
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 23:10:00 -
[1524] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction. what the actual fk mate? this IS the feedback thread and the feedback is the same as it has been since the second this change was announced: WE HATE IT. do you guys have a number of threads we need to copy and paste our distaste into before you listen? if so, please tell us what it is.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
Naglerr
235MeV Waterboard Comedy Tour
7
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Posted - 2014.08.26 23:30:00 -
[1525] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread. I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out. If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction. Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that. While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated.
Meh, I'll just make sure my subscriptions aren't set to auto-renew instead. You know what you need to do. |
Glyndi
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
237
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Posted - 2014.08.26 23:48:00 -
[1526] - Quote
Its Obama-care all over again. "Oh you dont want this? Too bad, we know whats best for you."
Thanks Obama!! |
Andiedeath
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
271
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Posted - 2014.08.26 23:52:00 -
[1527] - Quote
Faren Shalni wrote:So before this change i would jump in, bookmark, map, Keep at range, prop, cloak
Now it jump in, bookmark, map, cloak
Before I had a chance of getting caught, now its almost impossible to catch a covops.
Yup thats a great thing about teh change. Also we rolled our static last night and it wasnt too much extra trouble. Just had to bounce the orca to a tac... Easy Peezy!
Also yeah the extra WHs are great. WHs are going to be great PVP grounds! Director Swift Angels Alliance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3247397#post3247397 INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
531
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Posted - 2014.08.26 23:54:00 -
[1528] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread. I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out. If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction. Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that. While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated. I would call you many things but that would just get me banned right.
I will call you one thing.
Liar.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything. |
Andiedeath
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
271
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 23:56:00 -
[1529] - Quote
Naglerr wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:It seems like things have gotten a bit out of hand in this thread. I can fully appreciated that some of you are unhappy with the changes that have gone out. If you feel strongly about these changes, then give civil and concise feedback in the Hyperion feedback thread, and I'll point the development team in that direction. Please don't make personal attacks on eachother, or employees of CCP, otherwise you'll lose the ability to post on the forums, and neither us nor you want it to come to that. While you may see our development staff as avatars on a forum, please be aware that there are in fact people behind these faces, and abuse of CCP and our volunteers will not be tolerated. Meh, I'll just make sure my subscriptions aren't set to auto-renew instead. You know what you need to do.
LOL Dont listen to trolls CCP! The changes are awesome and just the shake up that wormhole space needs, a couple of little bugs but meh... Nothing we cant deal with though... KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK GUYS! Director Swift Angels Alliance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3247397#post3247397 INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public |
Syndiaan
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
15
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Posted - 2014.08.27 00:01:00 -
[1530] - Quote
Glyndi wrote:Its Obama-care all over again. "Oh you dont want this? Too bad, we know whats best for you."
Thanks Obama!!
I would pay money to give that more + likes. |
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