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Ace Merrill
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
   |
Posted - 2014.08.08 17:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm a very (very) long retired player, recently returned to EVE and interested in making a fresh start for some PvP action - where and how is really yet to be determined (High sec wars, FW, low sec, null sec, I've not yet decided).
The problem is, ever since I first played, all the way back in 2003, I was Amarrian and skilled for Amarrian ships and weapons as a very loyal citizen for several years. Yet, I always had this itch I never scratched, this secret yearning to join in with all the Low Sec piracy that, back in the mists of time, revolved around 2 ships primarily - Blackbirds and Scorpions. Wherever you went in Low Sec, it was a good bet there would be a posse of Blackbirds and Scorpions ready to get you with e-war and then gank the heck out of you. That memory has stuck with me.
Now, I'm back, and, for the first time, flying Caldari ships. Yet the buzz on these ships seems to have died, I'm not seeing many fits posted, or stories of jammed and scrambled victims killed by these old school predators of space.
Do these ships have a role still to play in PvP? If I decide to train for them/buy them, is it feasible to think of some low sec piracy or combat, or are those days long gone?
i'd be interested in knowing people's thoughts.
Ace. |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum
Reverberation Project
62
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 18:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Scorpions and Black birds do have a role in small gang PVP still, though i will warn you now if you choose to fly one and fly it well you will become the victim of peoples dislike of the whole ECM idea, You may be bountied, trolled, yelled, at, mailed, cried on, and exploded but your going to be swimming in tears doing it.
ECM is great for small gang because a good ewar pilot can jam a few of the enemy's key ships and turn the tide of a fight one way or the other. If you have a 5 on 3 engagement and the 3 pilot team has a Falcon or blackbird or what have you there is a significant chance they can win despite being outnumbered if the ECM jams the right ships. you can pick apart larger fleets with great ease that way.
to quote the gurista's training maual:
"Some Capsuleers deem ECM unfair or Dishonorable. Jam these ones first and kill them last"
Just remember the Key to ECM is range, dont be in brawling range stay 60-70 off and jam the enemy fleet as well as any drones they may send after you ( yes you can even jam drones ) or you could kill the drones before they close range with your own weapons and prioritize your jams on the ships. A Centurion pod is a good thing to have if you plan on flying them often and a falcon or rook is pretty much the end game jam ship ( 18.0 Point linked jams with Recon 5 so you can perma jam most cruisers and battlecruisers not running ECCM Protection mods )
Happy jamming, and may the tears fall with the frequency of the spring Monsoons
Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
642
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 20:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
The role for the blackbird and scorp in small scale PvP? Well there's the fight bringer....and then there's the blackbird and scorpion  |
Gordin Brott
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 22:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
A well-used jamming boat can work wonders, especially since most pvp is currently totally dependent upon remote repping. A Blackbird warping in at range once a fight is in progress can easily tip the balance in your favour, even if it only manages to jam the logi for a few moments.
Don't disregard the Griffin. They can be nastily effective, and make for a very cheap disposable jamming boat for learning the basics of ewar. |
Plato Forko
Forko Nanorobotics
83
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 23:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
BB is great in armor fleets with logi but it's slow as balls and sticks out like a clown on a snow drift. if you do manage to stay off the radar, by the time you make the sloooow warp at 3AU/s most ganks or small gang fights will have already finished.
the Falcon, on the other hand, is well worth the cost. There are few things sweeter than being on grid, in position, completely unnoticed with an eye on your fleetmates via watchlist and an eye on the targets ready to pick the perfect moment to step into action. By the time they notice you, it'll be too late to stop you 
My terribad blog where I QQ and rage about Amarr FW |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Repeat 0ffenders
716
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 00:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
The role is the fun killer.
/ecm should die
/tears
|
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
136
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 03:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ace Merrill wrote:I'm a very (very) long retired player, recently returned to EVE and interested in making a fresh start for some PvP action - where and how is really yet to be determined (High sec wars, FW, low sec, null sec, I've not yet decided).
The problem is, ever since I first played, all the way back in 2003, I was Amarrian and skilled for Amarrian ships and weapons as a very loyal citizen for several years. Yet, I always had this itch I never scratched, this secret yearning to join in with all the Low Sec piracy that, back in the mists of time, revolved around 2 ships primarily - Blackbirds and Scorpions. Wherever you went in Low Sec, it was a good bet there would be a posse of Blackbirds and Scorpions ready to get you with e-war and then gank the heck out of you. That memory has stuck with me.
Now, I'm back, and, for the first time, flying Caldari ships. Yet the buzz on these ships seems to have died, I'm not seeing many fits posted, or stories of jammed and scrambled victims killed by these old school predators of space.
Do these ships have a role still to play in PvP? If I decide to train for them/buy them, is it feasible to think of some low sec piracy or combat, or are those days long gone?
i'd be interested in knowing people's thoughts.
Ace.
Blackbird is arguably the single most cost-efficient PVP ship in Eve.
Scorpion? Not so much...
|
Liam Inkuras
Top Belt Heroes
Black Rise Police Department
1245
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 16:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Man up and fly a Keres
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Abyssum Invocat
Justified Chaos
78
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 20:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bait tanked blackbirds without ECM can be really great for getting people to engage. |
Christine Peeveepeeski
The Imperial Fedaykin
Amarrian Commandos
657
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 21:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
**** ECM
Every small gang pilot will say the same unless they are the scrubs that use them and then they'll use the argument 'but tears'. If that's the pilot you want to be then by all means feel free to fly ecm. |
Jonas Staal
The Echo Initiative
67
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 21:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
While I dislike ECM, I also dislike boosted T3 gangs sitting on gates.
ECM would actualy be a good way to get away from them so dunno.. |
Ace Merrill
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 22:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quite a range of responses, thank you all. At the very least it's good to know they do still have a role, though I suspect less of the pin and gank solo killing than the days of old.
Certainly plenty to think about.  |
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Senex Legio
240
|
Posted - 2014.08.10 02:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'll agree that Blackbird and its Tech 2 counterparts (Rook/Falcon) are great for small gang. Scorpions are slower to lock enemy targets, slower to get into warp and warp slower across a system (due to the changes this year).
Some folks love to whine about things they don't like, whether it's ECM, neutral reps, off-grid boosters or sentry drone Ishtars. Don't worry about what others whine about.
"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!" |
Rovain Sess
Obsidian Cadre
Seyllin Cartel
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.10 03:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dont listen to the naysayers - jam away. Play the game as intended.
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
1536
|
Posted - 2014.08.10 17:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
chatgris wrote:The role is the fun killer.
/ecm should die
/tears
naa it shoudl just CHANNGE. THey should make soemthign like swap that targets you have locked for other legal targets thatyou coudl have locked. So in a fight with several peopel you will still have enemeis locked.. so you are still playing. ECM woudl then only be good at dispersign concentration of firepower.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated
Executive Outcomes
288
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 04:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
When in doubt, Blackbird.
They are great ships, which is why they are primaried so often
BB's fly well shield or armor tanked, so there are very few fleets where they aren't a good addition. They are especially good for disrupting enemy logi chains.
The Scorpion is a fine ship, but battleship fleets tend to be rather large- rarely are battleships seen in small scale combat since they really need a host of support ships to be effective. ECM ships in these fleets tend to be more of 'if you can't fly the main DPS battleship' sort of thing. For example the Apoc Navy Issue fleet doctrine is popular, but since I can't fly them very well, I would take a Scorpion instead.
The current meta favors sensor damping over ECM, so ships like the Celestis have taken over dominating the EWAR component of fleets. |
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