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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1116
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Posted - 2014.08.10 02:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
As anyone who has ever run a nullsec data site can tell you, the site payout averages are complete trash. It's ludicrously awful, and CCP has done but two things to fix the loot tables: Jack and shit, and Jack left town.
The fact that these sites are trash stems from several things. First, there's the size of the loot. When an exploration frigate has a hold that's at best 300 m3, making 1-3M ISK drops that take up 100+ m3 is absolutely stupid. Most loot comes in the form of 1 m3 items in huge stacks, and it's all worthless trash because of that. Seriously. It's like trying to fit Lady Scarlet in the cargo hold. You just can't do it. And it's the main form of loot in just about every can.
Second, items like the Esoteric Tuner Data Interface are worthless. The blueprint copy drops themselves are limited. But--and here's the incredibly stupid part that CCP should have fixed with the Crius release--once you have the item itself, it has unlimited uses. The only value those items have at this point is in the incredibly unlikely event you lose the one you already have. This is straight-up bad game design. I really hope that if a CCP employee takes the time to read this far, they acknowledge this issue. It's a pretty massive oversight.
Third, datacores are worthless because they come from a bunch of other sources with much more availability. Either remove datacores from the drops or replace them with something that isn't already cheaper than a five-cent hooker.
Fourth, the drop rates were already terrible. Then CCP went ahead and cut them back even further when they removed loot spew, in an attempt to "compensate" for the average amount of loot lost. Incidentally, my numbers from before and after suggest that someone seems to have made a math mistake in the drop tables, as the average value of the loot was supposed to be reduced 30%. It seems instead that some brilliant person at CCP reduced both the average value of a stack and the average chance of appearance of a stack in a can by 30%, so the loot got reduced 1 x .7 x .7 instead of just 1 x .7, resulting in about a 50% reduction in average site value instead of 30%. Good job. The solution to this is to undo a stupid nerf and/or double-check math in the future. This math issue also applies to relic sites.
Please, CCP, unfuck nullsec data sites. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8662
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Posted - 2014.08.10 02:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
How did you get the word **** past the language filter? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1116
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Posted - 2014.08.10 03:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Magic. |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
109
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Posted - 2014.08.10 04:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hail to the king baby! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5237
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Posted - 2014.08.10 04:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:How did you get the word **** past the language filter?
"Hooker"? Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Mnemosyne Gloob
194
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Posted - 2014.08.10 04:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:the site payout averages are complete trash.
there's the size of the loot.
Mara Tessidar wrote:exploration frigate Mara Tessidar wrote:worthless Oh your little frigate cannot reap in billions of loot, what a bad situation.
Mara Tessidar wrote:the drop rates were already terrible. Then CCP went ahead and cut them back even further. Maybe it has got to do with how people were running those sites. CCP made them easy to be farmed in frigates, hence lots of people did them. CCP looked at it and 'whoops, lets do something' ... there you go.
Mara Tessidar wrote:math mistake in the drop tables Maybe they did, maybe not.
Remember that exploration loot's value is both determined by amount of finds and demand. When CCP touched the prof sites they did much to the finds (too much imo with how easy it is with frigs now), but not much to demand. Hence you are seeing what you describe as "worthless". |
Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1116
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Posted - 2014.08.10 06:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm getting a distinct "People shouldn't explore using exploration frigates" vibe from your post. Perhaps you think I should be probing sites down in a freighter, since that's about the only thing that has room for data site loot. Clearly, you think nullsec should continue to suck ass with regards to income. Don't worry: I'm pretty sure the devs agree with you. |
Jur Tissant
Unreal Darkness
157
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Posted - 2014.08.10 06:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
In some cases you'll run across an optimized item worth 10-20mil but for the most part data sites are small-time compared to relic sites. Relic loot is both more valuable and smaller.
So yes, I think data sites could use a bit of a boost. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
68
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Posted - 2014.08.10 06:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Scan the data sites. scan the cans. move on.
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3482
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Posted - 2014.08.10 06:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mara Tessidar is a great poster, but when she's drunk it just amplifies the effect 100x.
Get drunk, Mara. Oh god. |
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Athryn Bellee
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
6
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Posted - 2014.08.10 08:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Can anyone clarify if nullsec data sites are supposed to drop any faction BPCs? I've been doing data and relic sites for a couple months and I haven't seen any sort of faction blueprints, just a bunch of marginally useless ASB and AAR BPCs with the regular data trash.
Occasionally you get T2 rig BPCs from relic sites but considering those are as cheap as 2m to make , if you have the BPO you're not going to get much from them unless you make them which I don't have the skills for anyways. Relic sites have decent overall loot drop, but data sites need to be seriously reconsidered. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1425
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Posted - 2014.08.10 11:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Having to choose which loot you take isn't bad game design. Reminds me of single player games where you can't buy all the gear even if you maxed out on credits. Same here. You are free to gimp your fit to get more cargo space.
Data Interfaces.... I sort of agree. I don't see why of all things, these still survive an invention process 100% of the time. Cruis removed slots and Invention is now more available, perhaps more people get into it now but eventually demand will be sated, crashing the price even further. For some reason I still manufacture them though, but I admit I do that because I can and not because it's one of my most profitable activities. It's more or less done to minimize the size of things I'd need to haul for selling. |
Yishna Strone
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
5
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Posted - 2014.08.10 12:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
As an explorer myself, i find i now completely skip data sites as well, simply because they aren't worth the time.
Loot takes up huge amounts of space compared to relic sites and generally only find junk. |
Madison Star
Kodex Solutions
3
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Posted - 2014.08.10 17:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Scan the data sites. scan the cans. move on.
you do realise there are no more can spews er right? and scanning the actual unit reveals bugger all for me no more you goto open it to see whats inside.... |
Athryn Bellee
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
6
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Posted - 2014.08.10 17:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yishna Strone wrote:As an explorer myself, i find i now completely skip data sites as well, simply because they aren't worth the time.
Loot takes up huge amounts of space compared to relic sites and generally only find junk.
The best thing to do even though they are generally a waste of time is to at least fail all the cans so that the site immediately despawns and a new site respawns somewhere else in the same region/constellation. If you don't touch them they take about three days to disappear, versus if you even just attempt one can at least they will disappear within an hour.
There are fabled faction tower BPC drops so I don't know if attempting the cans legitimately is worth it though. |
Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1122
|
Posted - 2014.08.10 23:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
For a comparison, I just did two sites, one data and one relic. Neither had a rare blueprint, just common loot.
Here's the relic loot.
Here's the data loot.
Notice a difference? The relic site loot was 5.7 m3, and worth about 15 million ISK. The data site loot was 339.1 m3, and worth ~10 million ISK. Except that no exploration frigate can even carry 339.1 m3 in the first place. Data site loot is worth even less per m3 than NPC rat module drops. Am I supposed to probe in an Iteron Mk V fit for cargospace?
Data sites are, as I said, complete trash. |
Rockerguy 101
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.08.11 04:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm a big fan of people skipping data sites. I think everyone should just start doing that. Explorer-á |-á Ghost |
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