Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1125
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 19:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Remove incursions from highsec or make them less profitable than being in nullsec/lowsec/wormhole space. |
Kithran
104
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 19:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Tycho Naskingar wrote:Tragot Gomndor wrote:currently running distress beacon... setup: 2x remote armor nestors, 1x shield nightmare, crap fits
too much ecm, too high hitpoints, we are doing it for like 30min already and only got to the second spawn, i hope theres not another... maybe works when counteracting the ecm somehow, we have no eccm :D
edit: okay, we got a third spawn, so we ragequited
for everyone else, each spawn had 8 cruisers, some frigs, first spawn had 4-6 ecm cruiser, second spawn had a fleeing cruiser, moved to 150km... Agreed, the amount of ECM in these sites is ridiculous and ECCM just doesn't seem to work. Haven't finished one yet running 2 to 4 domis. Maybe with a dedicated trigger and silly sensor strength but I haven't tried that yet. As I see it now, all you could do would be marauders. The incursion rats use an ECM mechanic which is not dependent on sensor strength. It is a straight 100% chance to jam.
Incorrect - it is simply that the rats jam strength increases each time it fails to jam - see here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=430301#post430301 |
Kithran
104
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 19:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Remove incursions from highsec or make them less profitable than being in nullsec/lowsec/wormhole space.
Considering how much territory the CFC controls they already are. You can run null sec incursions in safety and make more than high sec.
There is one person I know of who has simply been running missions in npc null - a few weeks and he now has 20 billion and 12 plex.
Next strawman please. |
Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1125
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 20:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
As one of the people who has recently run missions out of 5ZXX, I can assure you, I know quite well that highsec incursions make more money. And not only that, but they exist in safety. If I want to run missions, my friends and I have to control the 5ZXX station undock and the surrounding system gates. This involves a process I'm sure you're unfamiliar with known as "killing people." This is an element of the game noticeably lacking in highsec, and it remains an error on the part of CCP that high reward activities continue to exist in these safe areas. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2761
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 20:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
can you remove gate rats from lowsec incursions?
Typically active areas are empty for the duration of incursions. There are several problems with those rats. Firstly they can, if you are unlucky instant point and web you, while not following any rules of player ships. Sometimes they sleep and completely ignore you for 10s and sometimes they instantly tackle you (including ewar and what not). They don't drop anything, they don't comply to ship fitting rules and are therefore hard to fight with pvp ships. Rats designed to be killed by a group of pve ships should not hang around at gates in completely over the top stats (again: they don't even drop anything).
i know that you probably hoped that "if they **** players off long enough they will come and close the incursion". But nobody would do that, people usually avoid the whole area for roams. Not to mention that this is not even in the interest of incursion runners themselves since they want to farm the incursion till the last minute instead of closing it early. I am sure you have the statistics yourself. Amamake was literally empty the last time i saw an incursion there (about 1-2 month ago). eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Kithran
105
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 20:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:As one of the people who has recently run missions out of 5ZXX, I can assure you, I know quite well that highsec incursions make more money. And not only that, but they exist in safety. If I want to run missions, my friends and I have to control the 5ZXX station undock and the surrounding system gates. This involves a process I'm sure you're unfamiliar with known as "killing people." This is an element of the game noticeably lacking in highsec, and it remains an error on the part of CCP that high reward activities continue to exist in these safe areas.
I wasn't referring to trying to run npc missions for a corp with just a single station - of course that is going to be camped.
If you can't show enough common sense to do it somewhere safe you have no chance. |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1156
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
If it's not the gankers, it's the Wh'ers if not them the Nul sec'ers everyone is an expert on how easy Incursions are, regardless of what the actual players using the content say.
They are not risk free regardless of where they are located, there are about a 100 posts that explain in detail what and where the risks are, look them up, they are in threads littered all over the forums.
This thread 'Incursion changes on Sisi now' in the 'feedback' sub-forum is for feedback on the current iteration of Scout sites currently available on SiSi. If you want them nerfed, eliminated or changed specific to one region then start a thread in the proper forum with the proper title, otherwise contribute to this conversation by running a few scout sites on SiSi and advise Fox Four of tweaks needed before the release date.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
396
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
I used to sometimes take a couple of brand new players into scout site, just for the experience. We could run scout sites with 2-3 day old newbies before with 1 experienced logi frig pilot. Will this still be possible? |
Zand Vor
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Just tried a site in a Golem on Sisi. I was fitted for more tank than gank and couldn't break a Mara's shield rep in the 1st wave.
Pyfa reports me at 674 dps using Precision missiles. I may try again with dual-painters and 4 BCS.
I don't see how anything non-Marauder is going to deal w/ that much ECM though. |
Fortorn Lonshanks
Adeptus Incursio
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
I'd like to go on record here about the "highly profitable" activities in high sec.
1. This is a PVE activity that requires massive group coordination and/or Boxing to succeed. This is unlike null sec PVE isk/hour which requires NO coordination to do referencing anomalies, DED sites, exploration, belt ratting. Also referencing coordination based on alliance structure and CTAs i'm going to put that in the realm of PVP.
2. There is plenty of risk. A standard PVE ship in null is likely T2 fitted with maybe a few "necessary to run" faction mods. High sec incursion ships are worth FAR FAR more than those null sec "throw away" ships. IF a null sec ratter loses a ship, talking 300-500m but when a nigh sec incursioner loses one at the least its 1-2b isk.
3. The sheer amount of people in null sec ratting FAR exceeds the number of people running incursions in high sec in any given moment. The isk/faucet in null pours waterfalls, high-sec incursions are more like streams. Streams also in that only a finite maximum number of players at any one time can be making the isk in incursions at any given second. The maximum number of players farming null has likely never been reached.
To CCP I say this, be cautious. Don't target the entire game except NULL. WH community is already in near open rebellion. We don't all want to kiss the ring of the isk gods living null. I request that you be fair handed and start putting forth ideas on how to stop the isk faucet in null starting immediately. |
|
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cult of Mooby
237
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Fortorn Lonshanks wrote:I'd like to go on record here about the "highly profitable" activities in high sec.
1. This is a PVE activity that requires massive group coordination and/or Boxing to succeed. This is unlike null sec PVE isk/hour which requires NO coordination to do referencing anomalies, DED sites, exploration, belt ratting. Also referencing coordination based on alliance structure and CTAs i'm going to put that in the realm of PVP.
2. There is plenty of risk. A standard PVE ship in null is likely T2 fitted with maybe a few "necessary to run" faction mods. High sec incursion ships are worth FAR FAR more than those null sec "throw away" ships. IF a null sec ratter loses a ship, talking 300-500m but when a nigh sec incursioner loses one at the least its 1-2b isk.
3. The sheer amount of people in null sec ratting FAR exceeds the number of people running incursions in high sec in any given moment. The isk/faucet in null pours waterfalls, high-sec incursions are more like streams. Streams also in that only a finite maximum number of players at any one time can be making the isk in incursions at any given second. The maximum number of players farming null has likely never been reached.
To CCP I say this, be cautious. Don't target the entire game except NULL. WH community is already in near open rebellion. We don't all want to kiss the ring of the isk gods living null. I request that you be fair handed and start putting forth ideas on how to stop the isk faucet in null starting immediately. +1 for stuffing a gag in all the whiny Null Sec 'bears If putting eyes on a station and some gates is too much for you to do, you'd rage quit at trying anything in a WH. Or, more likely, you'd cry to a CSM rep about "fixing" the WH "carebears" who kick you out when you set up a tower. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15605
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zand Vor wrote:Just tried a site in a Golem on Sisi. I was fitted for more tank than gank and couldn't break a Mara's shield rep in the 1st wave.
Pyfa reports me at 674 dps using Precision missiles. I may try again with dual-painters and 4 BCS.
I don't see how anything non-Marauder is going to deal w/ that much ECM though. Logi triforce.
I also think the 5-ship limit goes against the idea of promoting group gameplay. limiting the numbers makes more sense for higher sites, which are more viable/survivable due to the triple logi [minimum] consuming a smaller portion of the gang.
I'm not sure what is being avoided with a payout curve of 5. as an ISK faucet, scouts are a long way from being a gusher.
I think the curve for Vanguard sites should be lower. on separate occasions I've tanked them with three basilisks, and three remote rep faction battleships (2 rattlesnakes, 1 nightmare). what you're seeing with Vanguards is a minimum of 3 logistics, and anything beyond that is just DPS. anything over 6 (3 logi, 3 DPS battleships) is purely a race-to-the-finish factor.
what I'm saying is the payout curve misses the mark in both scouts and vanguards. they should both be 6 or 7.
the minimum difficulty of vanguard sites is cleared at 6.
a payout curve of 5 removes the option of larger groups in scout sites. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
I'm actually firing up the test server for this, not sure if it will be good or bad, but we shall soon see.
Back with feedback "Soon" Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
182
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
I like people saying VG Min Logi is 3..
Two Logi is the standard for most VG groups, 1 is more than able to do it (with it being repped by Logi drones from the other ships)..
And that's before we even talk about Marauders.
Scout sites will likely be the same, or even T1 BS's with active reps + logi drones.. should more than keep them up in a 5 man gang.. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15605
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:I like people saying VG Min Logi is 3..
Two Logi is the standard for most VG groups, 1 is more than able to do it (with it being repped by Logi drones from the other ships)..
And that's before we even talk about Marauders.
Scout sites will likely be the same, or even T1 BS's with active reps + logi drones.. should more than keep them up in a 5 man gang.. more than just two logi in the cap chain, yes? as in, cap transfers on the battleships? which is smart, and not an isolated two-logi scenario like you make it sound. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1156
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:I like people saying VG Min Logi is 3..
Two Logi is the standard for most VG groups, 1 is more than able to do it (with it being repped by Logi drones from the other ships)..
And that's before we even talk about Marauders.
Scout sites will likely be the same, or even T1 BS's with active reps + logi drones.. should more than keep them up in a 5 man gang.. more than just two logi in the cap chain, yes? as in, cap transfers on the battleships? which is smart, and not an isolated two-logi scenario like you make it sound. I know where your coming from, but I haven't seen more than two Logi in a VG fleet in two years, any more than that and your killing your DPS curve and dragging dead weight.
Thatt Guy; I am loading SiSi as well, will try to meet up with anyone there and run a few to check within the hour, plus travel time.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Ramzious
Faction Modules and Munitions Joint Alliance Blue
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Anyone referring to 3 logi minimum and cap chain for logi must be remembering the pre "big-nerf" fleets of yore. I have run VG incursions off and on for the last year and anything over two scimitars in a shield fleet is laughed at these days. As a test, some groups run with two logi but make one sit inactive while the other takes care of the entire fleet. I have not run a scout site in ages, may have to try one again. 3 decently tanked (buffer) BC or BS and two logi (simply for the high ecm I see complained about) should be enough for a Scout site. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15605
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 22:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
ok, I'll go with it. you only need 2 logi for vanguards, and the 10 ship payout curve is a little more excessive than I claimed earlier? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 22:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
Holy crap I forgot how pretty Eve is with full graphics and sound!
OK... Payout: 3.5 mil + 50 Concord LP First impression, more LP. Vanguards pay out 2k LP per site, at least scale it up to 500.
Forming fleet to try sites now, will report back. Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |
Safdrof Uta
VELOCIRAPTORS EATING GRILLED CHEESE SANDWICH
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 22:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
I regret to inform you that I currently have no numbers, will rectify this and report back when I can. |
|
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
396
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 22:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:I used to sometimes take a couple of brand new players into scout site, just for the experience. We could run scout sites with 2-3 day old newbies before with 1 experienced logi frig pilot. Will this still be possible?
Lol.. I just tried it on SiSi. Guess not.
I think it would've been better if you added gate restricted to frig-destroyer/cruiser-battlecruiser in scout/vanguard sites. Lowered their difficulty and allowed them to be done in t1 hulls for a decent income that's at least comparable to level 3-4 missions. Nerfing vanguards is not a good idea though, so please add another tier between scout a vanguard. Scout being doable in T1 frigs and the next one in T1 cruisers. Also, increased payout for all lowsec sites would be nice. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15605
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 22:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:Holy crap I forgot how pretty Eve is with full graphics and sound!
OK... Payout: 3.5 mil + 50 Concord LP First impression, more LP. Vanguards pay out 2k LP per site, at least scale it up to 500.
Forming fleet to try sites now, will report back. scout sites payout WHAT? lol awesome President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
182
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 22:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:ok, I'll go with it. you only need 2 logi for vanguards, and the 10 ship payout curve is a little more excessive than I claimed earlier? Most VG groups also run one heavy, 11. The loss in payout is more than made up by the increase in site efficiency from the extra DPS. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15606
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 22:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
let's not confuse difficult with competitive. you're throwing 11 at them because you're trying to blitz them faster than the other guys. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
182
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 22:49:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:let's not confuse difficult with competitive. you're throwing 11 at them because you're trying to blitz them faster than the other guys. Never said they were hard, just said that's how they are done :p
I personally stick to HQ's.. I don't like all the small stuff in VG sites :p |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cult of Mooby
238
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 22:59:00 -
[56] - Quote
I am definitely a fan of fixing the NCN wall as well as giving people a reason to run Scout sites. 3.5M payout sounds pretty good, although I am a little concerned that only paying out 50 LP will just give people a reason to run other sites instead. HQ Sites pay out 10000 LP per site, Assaults pay out 5000 LP per site, Vanguards pay out 2000 LP per site, and then Scouts pay out a measly 50 LP? Half of the appeal in Incursions is the LP pay out, so by not addressing the meager 50 LP you have only addressed half of the reason they aren't run. I foresee newbies running Scout sites, then they jump into an Incursion community chat and are ridiculed for not knowing that the LP sucks and they effectively make way more than just the ISK increase from running VG's. Then the newbies tell other newbies that Scouts still suck and we're back at the current VG/HQ min/max meta, the only real difference will be that when one or the other of the HQ groups gets their panties twisted up and pops a mom in a tantrum then the next will spawn quicker so they get compete for more attention by popping that one too. |
Saul Hyperion
Palmetto Galactic
84
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 23:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
Been messing around with the nullsec ones. The jamming is way too much. When you can only bring five people, a single jam can be devastating. |
Plaid Rabbit
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 23:28:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kithran wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:Remove incursions from highsec or make them less profitable than being in nullsec/lowsec/wormhole space. Considering how much territory the CFC controls they already are. You can run null sec incursions in safety and make more than high sec. There is one person I know of who has simply been running missions in npc null - a few weeks and he now has 20 billion and 12 plex. Next strawman please.
I'm the leader of the CFC's Incursion sig, and my alt is a FC in the hisec incursion community, so I can speak on both sides of this subject with plenty of experience.
You're wrong on this, I go run hisec incursions to make isk, they are much more profitable.
Hisec groups are able to (mostly) safely able to field 160B isk fleets to push crazy site times. I can safely field a 4B isk ship, and have near-0% chance of getting blown up. Ask for statistics from one of the hisec incursion groups if you disagree that the risk is somewhere near 0, even including ganks (including things like boosters, logis and blingy incursion hulls).
In hisec, I lead a 100+B isk fleet, after being in the hisec group I'm in for few months. Most the pilots know what they are doing, and with the risk level where it is, it's not unsafe to turn the fleet over to a member that's been around. How many organizations would turn a fleet worth the same as an 80 man capital fleet to someone they've known for less then a year? We also get shut down for about an hour a few times a day as roaming fleets come through dek right now, and Deklin is the safest area for us to run in.
Also, we're very unpredictable about if we can run incursions or not. We go for 4+ week spans of not able to run incursions because they are all in hostile space. Then about 1/3 the time past that it spawns somewhere where we need clear it to fix our JB network, and also so that our line member don't die to gate. (like the current incursion in S-B1E4)
We've had about 9 workable incursions since May 17th, and that includes 3 incursions that we did that were more "experimental", in much more hostile areas, and we're trying to learn how to get passable site times with cheaper ships.
I can choose to run incursions in hisec, and get ~15 minute HQ sites, or ~5 minute VG sites. If I can't do HQs in 22.5 minutes, or 7.5 min VG sites, it's more profitable to run in hisec. And in hisec, I have no questions about bringing a 5B isk into the fleet. How the shiney groups get their site times down is by bringing a bunch of isk ongrid, and blapping everything.
Pushing site times down is all about bringing a ton of bling in fleet, and being at zero influence. Out in nullsec, it takes 24-48 hours to get the incursion to 0 influence. In hisec, you tend to be at 0 influence within 6-12 hours.
Nullsec incursions need a huge buff. Please have some facts before trying to act intelligent. And also please stay on-topic. NPC Mission running has nothing to do with nullsec incursions. Your statement goes to prove that are other activities in nullsec that are more profitable then incursion running. Also, we've goon-rushed MOA enough that the price of those BPCs has tanked, so the profit of those have tanked out. |
Plaid Rabbit
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 23:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:let's not confuse difficult with competitive. you're throwing 11 at them because you're trying to blitz them faster than the other guys.
They run with 11 ongrid for more isk/hr. You're going from 8 dps to 9 DPS, a 12% dps increase, and also pops targets before they burn into range and start orbiting. This shaves a good bit off your site time, for a cost of 10% of your payout. They run 12 ongrid to win contests. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15606
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 23:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
and that figure doesn't include warfare link boosters (which I didn't have, back when I tested Vanguards in triple logi and triple RR BS).
that solution to the missing intermediate difficulty site betwen scout and VG might be the payout curves themselves. payout curve of 7 / 7 for scout and vanguard, don't you think? it should be noted that I have such a composition with 2 CS mindlinked warfare boosters, and 10 combat ships that can handle any subcap comp... I found vanguards are too "micromanage" compared to other PVE (Cap Escalations) but if i wanted someplace to go without risking several caps and subcap support compositions, I might be enticed by vanguards (and possibly scouts even, w-how!) if the payout curve was 7 and 7... just -something- to make the PVE enjoyable without a group of green, blue, and purple faction ships contesting the site.
it wasn't the stress of handling small ships with various names --tank and bail if necessary--it was bling groups coming in and ruining my fun. I hardly had time to yell battle commands to myself before it was over
I'd be nerfing myself here. but honest assessment anyway, because i'm real like that. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |