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Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
So basically why would u ever fly a supercarrier anymore.
After patch i can get a moros to do about 8500-10000 dps at 0-64km.. a supercarrier with perfect skills can acheive 10000 in a nyx and less in other ships.. Yea they have alot more EHP but a hell of alot more expensive. It cost almost 8-10 dreads per supercarrier. This means the only people who are going to fly supercarriers in fight are the blop supercap alliances.. This nerf is only going to increase the supercap blobs.
SC need a pure dps buff. As dreads now do comparable dps at a fraction of the cost. At the current cost 20 supercarriers(fitted) = about 375b so lets put that number into how many dreads u can get for that cost.. lets say the average dread cost 2.5b which is a very expensive dread.. that equals 150 dreads.
Who would win 150 dreads or 20 supercarriers? i think we all know who.
All im saying is now supercarriers are obsolete and need a dps buff.
Dreads do just as much dps Fraction of the cost Replaced much easier Less hp but remember u can feild 8-10 of these per supercarrier(cost wise) More people willing to risk dread. Only going to promote blobs of SCs. Going to promote titanblobs
This nerf didnt do anything to stop supercapital blops and if anything it increased them now u wont see alliances using a small amount of these in fleet fights.(many of u say these arnt suppose to be in small engagements... sooo you would rather see 100 of them alltogether than being used in small fleet battles? Does the US Navy have 50 aircraft carriers? no they have a small amount that they use in small engagements.
Sry for my ranting but i mean cmon dreads>supercarriers. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
203
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 15:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
You should fly dreads then, no? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
964
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
The supercarriers would spider rep, tank the DPS from the dreads, and the combination of 400 fighterbombers and officer neuts would quickly tear the dreads up one-by-one, there's your answer.
That's assuming that there are no titans in gang! |
ovenproofjet
The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated
20
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Whining Supercarrier cyno alt spotted.... |
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
I would rather have seen a 40% hp nerf and dreads left alone... Now Titans > Dreads > super carriers > carriers |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
203
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 15:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Imajitaaltofanalt ofanalt wrote:I would rather have seen a 40% hp nerf and dreads left alone... Now Titans > Dreads > super carriers > carriers
You just put "dreads" into the middle of that and hope it sticks there? |
Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Andski wrote:The supercarriers would spider rep, tank the DPS from the dreads, and the combination of 400 fighterbombers and officer neuts would quickly tear the dreads up one-by-one, there's your answer.
That's assuming that there are no titans in gang!
ur sadly mistaken if u think they could spider tank 1-1.5million dps
and 20 supercarriers wouldnt need to neut as they would kill a dread very very fast but the overwhelming numbers they wouldnt keep up. plus they would be silly to engage such close range.
The only way i could see they winning is making dreads seige close then warp back far away and decend bombers on them. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
203
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 15:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:Andski wrote:The supercarriers would spider rep, tank the DPS from the dreads, and the combination of 400 fighterbombers and officer neuts would quickly tear the dreads up one-by-one, there's your answer.
That's assuming that there are no titans in gang! ur sadly mistaken if u think they could spider tank 1-1.5million dps and 20 supercarriers wouldnt need to neut as they would kill a dread very very fast but the overwhelming numbers they wouldnt keep up. plus they would be silly to engage such close range. The only way i could see they winning is making dreads seige close then warp back far away and decend bombers on them.
Maybe you should just field 150 dreads and see what happens? |
Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
im sure we will see it happen. |
Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
22
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
You need 150 Pilots to fly 150 Dreads... I found it rather stupid if 20 Players were able to take on 150 on their own, if both sides spent almost the same amount of ISK on their ships. Spybeaver |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
966
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 15:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:Andski wrote:The supercarriers would spider rep, tank the DPS from the dreads, and the combination of 400 fighterbombers and officer neuts would quickly tear the dreads up one-by-one, there's your answer.
That's assuming that there are no titans in gang! ur sadly mistaken if u think they could spider tank 1-1.5million dps and 20 supercarriers wouldnt need to neut as they would kill a dread very very fast but the overwhelming numbers they wouldnt keep up. plus they would be silly to engage such close range. The only way i could see they winning is making dreads seige close then warp back far away and decend bombers on them.
You also failed to account for the fact that the dreads have to siege and lock, and can only lock two targets at a time in siege. They'd lose a good chunk of dreads just while switching primaries. |
Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 15:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lyrka Bloodberry wrote:You need 150 Pilots to fly 150 Dreads... I found it rather stupid if 20 Players were able to take on 150 on their own, if both sides spent almost the same amount of ISK on their ships.
Correct so this is only going to promote bigger blobs of supercarriers. |
Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
ur right i forgot supercarriers dont have to lock and drones teliport to there targets. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
203
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 15:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:Lyrka Bloodberry wrote:You need 150 Pilots to fly 150 Dreads... I found it rather stupid if 20 Players were able to take on 150 on their own, if both sides spent almost the same amount of ISK on their ships.
Correct so this is only going to promote bigger blobs of supercarriers.
Exactly! Just buff moms so that just one pwns everything. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
966
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 15:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:ur right i forgot supercarriers dont have to lock and drones teliport to there targets.
Holy hell, are you that dumb?
Supercarriers can lock dreads much faster than dreads can lock back in siege. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
339
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Of course the 20 SC pilots would never bring 130 of their friends in a well balanced fleet of sub caps to balance things out numerically, and give themselves a huge advantage. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Of course the 20 SC pilots would never bring 130 of their friends in a well balanced fleet of sub caps to balance things out numerically, and give themselves a huge advantage.
This is off-topic |
thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Can dreads even track SC's in siege? It seems like you're comparing apples to something else that isnt apples. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
968
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 16:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Of course the 20 SC pilots would never bring 130 of their friends in a well balanced fleet of sub caps to balance things out numerically, and give themselves a huge advantage. This is off-topic
right, realistic situations are off-topic |
Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
thetwilitehour wrote:Can dreads even track SC's in siege? It seems like you're comparing apples to something else that isnt apples.
r u kidding? |
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Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
22
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Of course the 20 SC pilots would never bring 130 of their friends in a well balanced fleet of sub caps to balance things out numerically, and give themselves a huge advantage. This is off-topic
Ummm, no, it is not. That is exactly what I wanted to say (and what you commented with "correct")
If 20 Players could take on 150 on their own when the sum of costs on both sides is the same it is NOT a well balanced situation, as the 20 have the opportunity to bring 130 friends, which the other side has not.
Spybeaver |
Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Why where supercaps nerfed?
Because people blobed with them.
This patch is doing nothing to stop that if anything its promoting it.
You think supercap blobs are going to go away? Nope You think supercap blobs dont have blues they can batphone for subcaps? |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
26
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:Why where supercaps nerfed?
Because people blobed with them.
This patch is doing nothing to stop that if anything its promoting it.
You think supercap blobs are going to go away? Nope You think supercap blobs dont have blues they can batphone for subcaps? Yep
This patch brings the one thing to supers we need: Death
With less EHP and no logoff mechanic they will die a lot more instead of massing up into the undying blob. |
FlameGlow
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
19
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 16:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:Why where supercaps nerfed?
Because people blobed with them.
This patch is doing nothing to stop that if anything its promoting it.
You think supercap blobs are going to go away? Nope You think supercap blobs dont have blues they can batphone for subcaps? Yep
The idea is to allow killing said supercaps, and yet supercaps being killable by dreads is what you're complaining about? I read it as "I got some supercaps, but not many. Nerf everyone else but me" |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
968
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 16:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
FlameGlow wrote:Casius Omega wrote:Why where supercaps nerfed?
Because people blobed with them.
This patch is doing nothing to stop that if anything its promoting it.
You think supercap blobs are going to go away? Nope You think supercap blobs dont have blues they can batphone for subcaps? Yep The idea is to allow killing said supercaps, and yet supercaps being killable by dreads is what you're complaining about? I read it as "I got some supercaps, but not many. Nerf everyone else but me"
It's also a highly unlikely hypothetical situation (nobody can drop 150 dreads at a moment's notice, full stop) and unaccompanied dreads are a terrible counter to supercapital blobs and a terrible idea in general. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Is the OP really trying to bring in cost effectiveness as an argument here?
What would win, a Jaguar, or 100 rifters? |
Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 16:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Andski wrote:FlameGlow wrote:Casius Omega wrote:Why where supercaps nerfed?
Because people blobed with them.
This patch is doing nothing to stop that if anything its promoting it.
You think supercap blobs are going to go away? Nope You think supercap blobs dont have blues they can batphone for subcaps? Yep The idea is to allow killing said supercaps, and yet supercaps being killable by dreads is what you're complaining about? I read it as "I got some supercaps, but not many. Nerf everyone else but me" It's also a highly unlikely hypothetical situation (nobody can drop 150 dreads at a moment's notice, full stop) and unaccompanied dreads are a terrible counter to supercapital blobs and a terrible idea in general.
Basically this patch hurt the smaller alliances or alliances with a few to dozen supercaps. Its not going to do anything to big sc alliances like PL/Raiden. /WN ect.. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
968
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 16:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:Andski wrote:FlameGlow wrote:Casius Omega wrote:Why where supercaps nerfed?
Because people blobed with them.
This patch is doing nothing to stop that if anything its promoting it.
You think supercap blobs are going to go away? Nope You think supercap blobs dont have blues they can batphone for subcaps? Yep The idea is to allow killing said supercaps, and yet supercaps being killable by dreads is what you're complaining about? I read it as "I got some supercaps, but not many. Nerf everyone else but me" It's also a highly unlikely hypothetical situation (nobody can drop 150 dreads at a moment's notice, full stop) and unaccompanied dreads are a terrible counter to supercapital blobs and a terrible idea in general. Basically this patch hurt the smaller alliances or alliances with a few to dozen supercaps. Its not going to do anything to big sc alliances like PL/Raiden. /WN ect..
Right, so the nerf should be undone, leaving us back at square one with infallible supercapital blobs? |
Daedalus Arcova
Havoc Violence and Chaos BricK sQuAD.
154
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 16:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Casius Omega wrote:Why where supercaps nerfed?
Because people blobed with them.
Wrong.
They were nerfed because they were practically indestructible solopwnmobiles that could successfully engage both capital and subcapital targets with no need for proper support.
'Supercapital blobs' are a thing of the past, as of this expansion. You can't just roll in to a battle with a ton of SCs and no subcap support and expect to get anything other than faceraped.
Hopefully, the same will soon apply to Abaddon blobs, Drake blobs, Maelstrom blobs, Hurricane blobs and every other boring-as-**** fleet 'composition' that is basically just as many of one OP ship type as the FC can cajole into a fleet, with a smattering of logistics and tacklers. The destroyer buff goes a small way to mixing things up a bit, but I remain to be convinced that CCP's combined-arms vision of the EVE fleet is ever actually going to become a reality. |
Aamrr
HnL Enterprise
161
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 18:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
The problem with the "mixed fleet composition" you're talking about is a lack of redundancy. If you're bringing a mixed composition then there's going to be fewer ships of a given type -- and if your fleet depends on them, then the enemy has fewer ships to chew through before you're defeated. And if there's two ships that can accomplish a given role, one will probably end up being better suited...so why mix in the inferior one?
There's strength in uniformity.
Edit: Perhaps the most obvious exception is in avoiding singular damage type fleets. Abaddons are great ships, but they deal almost exclusively EM damage. Letting your opponent fit dedicated hardeners to counter you isn't a very good scenario. You could include ships like Tempests to address this problem, but it's very difficult to tank a Tempest (or similar) to the standards you'd expect in an Abaddon fleet. So here we are. |
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