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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2456
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Posted - 2014.08.22 21:25:00 -
[91] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I have always been a huge fan of plex pvp. A simple "yes" would have done.
CCP must have done something terribly wrong when they created a PvE mechanic that got this much PvP.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2801
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Posted - 2014.08.22 22:57:00 -
[92] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:I have always been a huge fan of plex pvp. A simple "yes" would have done. CCP must have done something terribly wrong when they created a PvE mechanic that got this much PvP. if you see plexing as pve you can also see reinforcements timers as pve.
It is a mechanic to force people to be in space at certain timespans and certain locations. Thats purely pvp to me. The fact that waiting in space in a plex rewards LP and waiting for a timer on a poco does not is only a side effect. It is the same mechanic.
FW missions are pve. Plexing is a conflict driver. Its king of the hill, other games have that too. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
96
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Posted - 2014.08.23 19:45:00 -
[93] - Quote
A meeting is to no avail as long the four milita have that great imbalance in their space and their respective plex and missions.
No cosmetic change will fix those imbalances.
We need a total FW reset - not elegant speeches about rules. |
Combatevolved
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
56
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Posted - 2014.08.23 19:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
Rahelis wrote: We need a total FW reset - not elegant speeches about rules.
How does a reset fix anything? |
Baron' Soontir Fel
Justified Chaos
239
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Posted - 2014.08.23 19:55:00 -
[95] - Quote
Timer rollbacks would be okay if there was a delay before the rollback started. It would take 5 mins for the timer on a novice to start to roll back, 10 for a small, 15 for a medium, etc. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
776
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Posted - 2014.08.23 21:02:00 -
[96] - Quote
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:Timer rollbacks would be okay if there was a delay before the rollback started. It would take 5 mins for the timer on a novice to start to roll back, 10 for a small, 15 for a medium, etc.
lol, 5 minutes. the point of this is so that if you concede and run your alt away, the pvper is wasting more of your time than you are theirs. |
Samwise Everquest
Because ISK
64
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Posted - 2014.08.24 03:13:00 -
[97] - Quote
FW topic and 90% of the posts are about plexes.
Loyalty Point Warfare where you can perma wardec anyone stupid enough to enlist on the losing side. |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
373
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Posted - 2014.08.24 04:02:00 -
[98] - Quote
losing side in FW ? ... hummmmm RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Templis CALSF
648
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Posted - 2014.08.24 05:27:00 -
[99] - Quote
Not a whole lot needs changed with FW. Some tweaks to the missions maybe (i'd like to see no ewar and npcs not turning on people who go inside a mission to hunt a missioner). The whole power projection thing is more of a null-side issue unrelated to FW (lack of conflict in null, player behavior blueing everyone, etc), so changing FW mechanics just so people don't get hotdropped is kind of silly, especially since small scale cap fights are fun for those in FW. Big fish will always hunt little fish, whether it be in lowsec, sov null or npc null.
Rollback timers are fine if, as suggested earlier, there is a significant delay before the timer rolls back (5 min with no players inside plex on a novice before the timer starts running back towards neutral, 10 min on small, 15 on medium, etc)
As far as the pendulum, it is natural human behavior to choose the path of least resistance and join the "winning side". I don't think CCP needs to drastically change plex mechanics, maybe reduce the buffer on the rats slightly so that if the dps check is there and the player is obviously in a pvp ship and passes that said check, they don't have to spend an obscene amount of time shooting npcs. Lowering the DPS tank on smalls and novices would be nice for newer players and for those who wish to kite in something other than a droneboat. There will always be non-interactive stabbed farmers, as this point just learn to accept it if you really dislike the farmers existence or its your home system then take their plex. |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
99
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Posted - 2014.08.24 06:28:00 -
[100] - Quote
Plexes where you orbit buttons are no content.
Missions - like crozy posted - should be the only way to get contestion. And missions should have nothing to do with the missions we see today.
Maybe the new burner mission are the way to go. Frig size, destroyer size, cruiser and BC size.
And all four militas need to same level of missions - the current imbalance is simply favouring one side over the other.
Titan bridges belong to null sec.
They are not possible in high sec and wh space - so why in low sec? |
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Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
1812
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Posted - 2014.08.24 10:36:00 -
[101] - Quote
Fix Null. Everything else will fall into place. Nullbears farming FW? Bored ganker explosion in high? It's all related to the stagnation rotting Null.
Amarr militia ceased to be an effective fighting force after Huola. It needs new faces more then anything else. |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
373
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Posted - 2014.08.24 12:24:00 -
[102] - Quote
yes fix null sec .. remove titan bridge and No more titan bridge To low sec with 200 people on it
To fix the boredrom of null sec they have to cut this structure bashing thing for good RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association 24eme Legion Etrangere
135
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Posted - 2014.08.24 12:33:00 -
[103] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Fix Null. Everything else will fall into place. Nullbears farming FW? Bored ganker explosion in high? It's all related to the stagnation rotting Null.
Amarr militia ceased to be an effective fighting force after Huola. It needs new faces more then anything else.
Null sec fixes would make a difference to some aspects but FW has a population crisis that has existed since I joined. The crisis is partially masked by alt farming occupancy.
There are definitely still some mechanisms that could be improved that would trigger repopulation but, the need is for amendments that are inclusive of various game styles not oppressive to them.
There is a consensus amongst some in this thread that an exclusive system is better, where a game style (that does not follow the risk = reward mechanism) is superior due to the influence it can and has been clearly shown to have on the war zone. The only counters being either to do the same for the opposing faction or to risk more, for often no reward and for almost zero fun.
If a game style is not fun, you will lose pilots that want to play that way. The FW zone is very capable of supporting some of these game styles but CCP are failing to acknowledge this and to act quickly.
There are few remaining that have been playing EVE 10years. Fewer that care much for what remains and from those that do they are all 10years older with the changes in their life that reflects. Where is the draw to bring these subscriptions?
The mechanisms that I hear are "working as intended" often could be improved to precipitate the kind of population boom in Militias I believe would occur if the right improvements were made.
Too many posts here are blinded by the current desire to achieve a personal target, rather than create a long term balance and longevity. "Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier" |
Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
194
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Posted - 2014.08.24 14:46:00 -
[104] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
There are definitely still some mechanisms that could be improved that would trigger repopulation but, the need is for amendments that are inclusive of various game styles not oppressive to them.
IMHO...that's an easy fix. Get rid of station lockouts for FW.
Was never for this, still not, and never will be. There are other ways to give benefits/repercussions for occupancy status to still give it meaning without this moronic, singular mechanic. |
Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
194
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Posted - 2014.08.24 14:48:00 -
[105] - Quote
double post fail |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1348
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Posted - 2014.08.24 20:13:00 -
[106] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:I have always been a huge fan of plex pvp. A simple "yes" would have done. CCP must have done something terribly wrong when they created a PvE mechanic that got this much PvP. if you see plexing as pve you can also see reinforcements timers as pve. It is a mechanic to force people to be in space at certain timespans and certain locations. Thats purely pvp to me. The fact that waiting in space in a plex rewards LP and waiting for a timer on a poco does not is only a side effect. It is the same mechanic. FW missions are pve. Plexing is a conflict driver. Its king of the hill, other games have that too.
Ok I see this as more of a spectrum then clearly one or the other. CCP intended plexing to be pvp, I know this because they said it. But is it working out that way?
XG gained 1.3 mill lp from defensive plexing with an alt in 2 weeks. He says that he only captured 100 plexes to do that. Even so 2000 vp in 2weeks is a very large contribution from any player. If we look at the data from the api dump that likely puts his alt in the top 50 for occupancy gains. Top 50 out of 20,000 active characters goes to an alt. I think if you look at those top 50 for any given day and then look at their killboard for that day you will see most probably are alts.
Now it seems you gain 20 vp even if you are with 100 other people in the plex and therefore only 1% of the reason the plex was captured. But neverthless even though these numbers are skewed that way, you can still look at the top 30 vp gainers or so for a day and see how much pvp they had that day. If you do this you will see that gaining occupancy is not really a pvp game.
Should multiboxing alts be the best way to gain occupancy? If you are fine with that then nothing is wrong. But if you think occupancy should center around exciting pvp combat that most people can't really do well with an alt they are multiboxing, then there is a problem.
I do not think there is really much difference between the fw missions and plexing. You do not need to be a at a certain place at a certain time for plexing any more than for running missions. Timer rollbacks would require you to be at that place at that time. But now you are free to go a system or 2 over open another plex and come back to the first plex you opened a few hours later. Sure the pvper might have closed it but he will have had to sit out all the time your alt ran. (and with the new supertanked rats that might be impossible) In any event your alt will be equally effective as the pvper with his time plexing. CCP should make it so that the best pilots at gaining occupancy also have to be great pvpers.
Reinforcement timers are more pvp than plexes because people will know you need to be there at a certain time. Giving pilots knowledge of where they need to be and when is another way to increase the pvp. I think we should do that but we can just stick to rollbacks in this thread. I am really surprised to see how weak fw players have become to the point that some are hesitant to implement this obvious mechanic. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
99
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Posted - 2014.08.25 07:59:00 -
[107] - Quote
Cear, my thought exaclty.
It is important to stress that noone is critisising the players of the factions themselves - the system itself is poor game design.
If ppl do not recognize that - go on and play the failed system and run L4 missions in bombers all day.
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Moglarr
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
9
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Posted - 2014.08.25 14:29:00 -
[108] - Quote
The LP and VP the alt gained weren't likely to be in systems that were actively being contested. The real problem, as I see it is that the tier system is really rough on people in tier one and the current plex mechanics (rat speed, their annoying durability, ect) and militia populations (everyone wants to be a winner, I get it) make it very difficult to push out from that tier. The alts are going to be there dplexing in one form or another, but they don't matter because if the system they are plexing is actively being pushed there isn't much they can do and they are not the best way to try and hold a system.
A lot of the comments I have seen about animal plexers and alts seem to paint a picture of dudes in back end systems that neither side actively wants to take. If I am wrong, I am sorry, but I just don't see how an unfit ship could hold a plex in a system were an active pilot wanted to be. And if you're that worried about it you could always put a DPS check in dplexes, just call it an enemy rat trying to cap the plex.
Some side notes, if you want timer based combat go to null or bash some POCOs or POS. The current plex system favours groups who have pilots that regularly log in and undock, timers only favour dudes who read an email and set an alarm. Also they are really boring. Issues with timezone coverage is separate entirely. For timer roll backs, I could live with it if there was a delay. An immediate roll back would be too punitive of players (mains or alts) who have to leave a plex for any reason and would only serve to make plexing even more of a grind. I would like to see the tier system leveled a little more. Essentially, just make tier one be the base line and each tier after that a bonus off the amount in the first tier. I feel Awoxing is a common enough problem that it needs to be punished more aggressively. Suspect timers and larger standings hits for friendly fire are a start, adjusting how a player corp standings are calculated toward their militia to not give active Awoxers a week to grind standings would be a good idea too, and remove the standing hit if the target you kill in your militia has a suspect flag. I think that corporations should gain LP or something from the work their pilots do for militia, something along the lines of an LP tax maybe. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
296
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Posted - 2014.08.25 14:42:00 -
[109] - Quote
Corp/Alliance rework will be handy, especially when it comes to contracts, hangars, roles, titles, and taxation.
To respond to a couple others:
We used to complain about plexing alts, so we made some to counter them. We used to complain about off grid link alts, so we made some to counter them. etc. BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1349
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Fix Null. Everything else will fall into place. Nullbears farming FW? Bored ganker explosion in high? It's all related to the stagnation rotting Null.
Amarr militia ceased to be an effective fighting force after Huola. It needs new faces more then anything else.
I'm not sure why fixing null sec will lead to null sec players to take their alts out of fw.
It seems to me making FW a game that is best played with your main (as opposed to with alts) is the way to drive alts out of fw. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
297
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:44:00 -
[111] - Quote
Cearain wrote:It seems to me making FW a game that is best played with your main (as opposed to with alts) ...
It already is. BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1349
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:46:00 -
[112] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Corp/Alliance rework will be handy, especially when it comes to contracts, hangars, roles, titles, and taxation.
To respond to a couple others:
We used to complain about plexing alts, so we made some to counter them. We used to complain about off grid link alts, so we made some to counter them. etc.
I couldn't agree more. You counter plexing alt rabbits by - creating your own plexing alt rabbits. If that is how you want to spend your time then you will be happy with the game. If not then you might want to see the mechanics that favor plexing alt rabbits change.
The same is true with off grid boosting. Create your own alt that does nothing but sit in a safe spot and boost you.
The question for ccp is how desperate to continue playing eve do you think we are? At what point will players start to say no f that I have other things to do with my time?
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Cearain wrote:It seems to me making FW a game that is best played with your main (as opposed to with alts) ... It already is.
What percent of the 20,000 characters in fw do you think are mains versus alts? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
297
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:00:00 -
[113] - Quote
probably more than are in highsec/WHs and about the same as are in nullsec. BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
750
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:37:00 -
[114] - Quote
Are there any impeachment or recall bylaws for the CSM? This dude is a numpty who can't even properly declare war. nom nom
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Super Chair
Project Cerberus Templis CALSF
650
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Posted - 2014.08.25 18:59:00 -
[115] - Quote
Moglarr wrote: I feel Awoxing is a common enough problem that it needs to be punished more aggressively. Suspect timers and larger standings hits for friendly fire are a start, adjusting how a player corp standings are calculated toward their militia to not give active Awoxers a week to grind standings would be a good idea too, and remove the standing hit if the target you kill in your militia has a suspect flag. I think that corporations should gain LP or something from the work their pilots do for militia, something along the lines of an LP tax maybe.
Oh yeah...smartbombs. Can we make it so that standings hit for hitting fleet members is non existent? (Players will be able to choose who they fleet with, if people are awoxers simply don't invite them to fleet) Smartbombing drones in a fight or for pods is really fun, but I lose a good amount of standing for hitting allied drones or nicking someones ship. I lost a good 1.0-1.5 caldari state standing in abune alone. |
Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
30
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Posted - 2014.08.25 19:22:00 -
[116] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Moglarr wrote: I feel Awoxing is a common enough problem that it needs to be punished more aggressively. Suspect timers and larger standings hits for friendly fire are a start, adjusting how a player corp standings are calculated toward their militia to not give active Awoxers a week to grind standings would be a good idea too, and remove the standing hit if the target you kill in your militia has a suspect flag. I think that corporations should gain LP or something from the work their pilots do for militia, something along the lines of an LP tax maybe.
Oh yeah...smartbombs. Can we make it so that standings hit for hitting fleet members is non existent? (Players will be able to choose who they fleet with, if people are awoxers simply don't invite them to fleet) Smartbombing drones in a fight or for pods is really fun, but I lose a good amount of standing for hitting allied drones or nicking someones ship. I lost a good 1.0-1.5 caldari state standing in abune alone.
This is one of my major issues with smart bombing in Faction Warfare. It's a perfectly legitimate tactic in order to deal with drone boat heavy doctrines, but doing so results in huge standings hits, and heaven forbid you accidently pod a friendly militia member because they die during the smartbomb fleet. That'll take you all the way down to -5 from +9. CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate --áwww.crimsonserpent.com Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate --áwww.heiian.com Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com |
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
295
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Posted - 2014.08.25 19:54:00 -
[117] - Quote
Subsparx wrote:all the way down to -5 from +9.
Not empty quoting. The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts. |
Samwise Everquest
Because ISK
66
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Posted - 2014.08.25 19:55:00 -
[118] - Quote
Maybe remove the LP bonus to def plexing while in higher teirs. Defensive plexing (minimal risk as in most are alts in warp stabbed frigates) should not ever be bonused based on the current tier. The reward is far greater than the risk. The LP bonuses should still apply to offensive plexing because there is risk and active piloting involved.
TLDR Defensive Plex payout should be a set amount based on the size of site. No LP bonuses should be applied from being a higher tier. |
Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
30
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Posted - 2014.08.25 23:42:00 -
[119] - Quote
You realize Defensive Plexing already has a HUGE penalty right? If you run an offensive plex in Caldari worth 10k right now, you get a 5k payout. Gallente are T4 and if their system is 20% contested they would get 3500 to deplex it. CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate --áwww.crimsonserpent.com Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate --áwww.heiian.com Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com |
Baron' Soontir Fel
Justified Chaos
240
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Posted - 2014.08.26 04:57:00 -
[120] - Quote
Subsparx wrote:You realize Defensive Plexing already has a HUGE penalty right? If you run an offensive plex in Caldari worth 10k right now, you get a 5k payout. Gallente are T4 and if their system is 20% contested they would get 3500 to deplex it.
It's still too high for a 1hr old alt that can complete the plex in a 20k ISK ship (Navitas) with a free clone.
I'd support a decrease on rewards for d-plexing when at high tiers like that. Say d-plexing stays at T2 rewards no matter how high you go?
Also, I really really REALLY love how people assume deplexing and oplexing alts didn't exist before the recent expansion. Were they just so ingrained before that people didn't realize how much back and forth plexing we had to do just to keep systems stable? |
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