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Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
807
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
According to this thread, wormholes are far less dangerous, easier to organise logistics for and set up, than incursions. Incursions are not run in the safety of hisec and there is a constant risk of neutrals that you can't see in local coming into the incursion sites to kill you.
C1-C3 holes are beginner holes, not the holes that see the most PvP, and this is why Incursions create more ISK than them. Also, in the same thread, it's pointed out to me that people don't actually make ISK of incursions at all...
Who knew, we've been wrong all this time...
I guess this should be turned into a proper discussion so as to not get locked by ISD for no content, so here goes: With these new changes to spawn rates of moms for incursions, how do you see this affecting people that would have otherwise looked at getting themselves a lower class wormhole (or made the move to nullsec)? For me, I think a fair few corps that would have otherwise considered a wormhole to farm, instead will realise they can make a lot more off hisec incursion sites.
Toast away Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Borsek
Incertae Sedis
229
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Posted - 2014.08.20 17:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
You should try listening to incursion comms sometimes, even a small dose of 15 minutes makes me want to blow my brains out.
As for people moving to holes, they have a completely different mentality. It's not so much about the possible ISK you can make, it's more about the whole environment thing. What makes wormholes exciting is the fact that you can be ganked, and can gank others while they're doing PvE. Hisec incursions are similar to an assembly line job, while wormholes are more similar to somalian pirating. Takes a special kind of person to do either.
What might happen, is less farming in lower class holes, while the inhabitants just do PI and pvp in there, while they farm ISK with alts in hisec. Which means nano prices rise slightly, which is good. |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
807
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm not really one for PvE to be entirely honest, but a fair few of my corp do occasionally like to shut up shop and run C4 or C2 sites in a group to just get ISK. Couple of beers on the go and a laugh in Comms. Even moreso when a new hole rolls into us.
I have no issue with the nanoribbon prices going up slightly, boosted income for lower class dwellers, but the fact that you're not guaranteed a set amount of ISK per site is for me something that makes them grand. One site takes 15-20mins (for arguments sake) and drops 1 nannoribbon. 3 mill ISK. Same site run five minutes later gives 10nano ribbons. 30 mill ISK. Hit and miss, I like that fact.
But what is driving people away I think is the cost of having a POS as a small corp in a wormhole (unless all you do is farm two or three times a week). Then you have the logistics of it all on top of that.
I dunno, I feel smaller corps who arent entirely sure, will choose incursions over wormholes, which in the run, makes less content for us.
Edit: Incursion runners don't particularly like me anyway as I'm mostly missiles. I tried once to give them a go only to be told "You're a missile pilot, I'm not having any of that **** in my fleet, get better skills scrub"... I laughed... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
648
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 17:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Borsek wrote:You should try listening to incursion comms sometimes, even a small dose of 15 minutes makes me want to blow my brains out.
It's so horrible. No one can truly understand the pain until they've experienced it for themselves. Imagine the worst comms you can think of and multiply the autism and white knighting by like 1,000 and you essentially have Incursion comms. Not to mention people who have the slightest form of power go crazy and try to ban you from everything when you question anything they do, regardless of whether they're right or wrong.
If you're in low class WH for money you're sorta doing it wrong tbh. With how much they currently pay out, C2 and 1 sites are definitely not worth it. C3 are pretty good if you're soloing them. However, it's a pretty good PvP environment, so if you're looking to move to WHs, that's probably the reason why. If you're going to them to farm, you're going to go to a C5/6 because that's where you can make decent money. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
807
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:Borsek wrote:You should try listening to incursion comms sometimes, even a small dose of 15 minutes makes me want to blow my brains out. It's so horrible. No one can truly understand the pain until they've experienced it for themselves. Imagine the worst comms you can think of and multiply the autism and white knighting by like 1,000 and you essentially have Incursion comms. Not to mention people who have the slightest form of power go crazy and try to ban you from everything when you question anything they do, regardless of whether they're right or wrong. Is it really that bad? I have a few friends who have said sometimes they just cant be arsed with their attitude but...
Andrew Jester wrote:If you're in low class WH for money you're sorta doing it wrong tbh. With how much they currently pay out, C2 and 1 sites are definitely not worth it. C3 are pretty good if you're soloing them. However, it's a pretty good PvP environment, so if you're looking to move to WHs, that's probably the reason why. If you're going to them to farm, you're going to go to a C5/6 because that's where you can make decent money. I agree with this, but some corps simply arent big enough to hold down a C5 hole by themselves. Of course there is the option of joining an alliance etc etc, but so newer to wormhole corps tend to try and go for a C2 - Hs - C4 hole so they can farm the C4. Which isn't too bad ISK wise in a smaller group. I do enjoy the smaller scale PvP that lower class holes bring. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1373
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Is it really that bad? I have a few friends who have said sometimes they just cant be arsed with their attitude but...
Can confirm. Incursion comms are terrible.
Last time I was running them, I was told that target painters are useless and that Marauders should use Bastion (in fleets that have logi). Also god help you if a guuurrrl ever gets on comms.
I have no idea how they fit so much group-think and so many white knights into their comms. It truly does boggle the mind. |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
648
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:Borsek wrote:You should try listening to incursion comms sometimes, even a small dose of 15 minutes makes me want to blow my brains out. It's so horrible. No one can truly understand the pain until they've experienced it for themselves. Imagine the worst comms you can think of and multiply the autism and white knighting by like 1,000 and you essentially have Incursion comms. Not to mention people who have the slightest form of power go crazy and try to ban you from everything when you question anything they do, regardless of whether they're right or wrong. Is it really that bad? I have a few friends who have said sometimes they just cant be arsed with their attitude but...
It's that bad, if not worse.
Seraph Essael wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:If you're in low class WH for money you're sorta doing it wrong tbh. With how much they currently pay out, C2 and 1 sites are definitely not worth it. C3 are pretty good if you're soloing them. However, it's a pretty good PvP environment, so if you're looking to move to WHs, that's probably the reason why. If you're going to them to farm, you're going to go to a C5/6 because that's where you can make decent money. I agree with this, but some corps simply arent big enough to hold down a C5 hole by themselves. Of course there is the option of joining an alliance etc etc, but so newer to wormhole corps tend to try and go for a C2 - Hs - C4 hole so they can farm the C4. Which isn't too bad ISK wise in a smaller group. I do enjoy the smaller scale PvP that lower class holes bring.
As long as you don't make too much noise or give people a reason to dislike you, it's pretty easy to hold down a C5. The best advice would be to pack light though. Have everything you own fit in either a carrier or an Orca so that you can just log it off should you get evicted. As always, having friends helps with not being evicted.
5->2 are great holes for smaller corps as they allow you the isk opportunities of a C5 with the smaller gang PvP opportunities of a C2. 5->3 are really good for farming and also for roaming k-space if you're into that kind of thing. With the new changes 5->4 holes will be pretty amazing for smallish to medium sized corps as the dual static on the 4 with give you a ton of roaming potential.
I'd advise the 5 if the corp knows what they're doing, but if a corp is brand new to WH space then they'll definitely want the comfort, safety, and logistical ease that a k-space static gives. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1375
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 18:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:As long as you don't make too much noise or give people a reason to dislike you, it's pretty easy to hold down a C5. The best advice would be to pack light though. Have everything you own fit in either a carrier or an Orca so that you can just log it off should you get evicted. As always, having friends helps with not being evicted.
Can confirm again (Jester, stop being right). Held a c5 (J105822) for over a year with just myself and one other guy. No one really messed with us. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
1569
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
The "pack light" doctrine goes for C1-C4 dwellers as well. Someone was complaining about the fuel bills for small corps living in low-class wormholes.
Well, unless you are running a reaction POS (which, reasonably, ought to more or less pay for itself), and have an actual need for an XLSMA, you can and should make do with a medium POS at most. if you are there to farm sleepers, you really are jjust being stupid putting up a medium or a large.
There's two reasons I say this. Number one, most POSs are fit poorly, so your large isn't going to be as much of a death star as you think, especially if you're trying to defray costs with reactions, labs, arrays, mining. Thus, your defence is going to be, not being a douche to people who kill you/you kill, getting friends, keep the shinies under wraps, don't own a capital, and be risk savvy.
Number two, no POS in a wormhole, for a small friendless corp, will actually stop a siege. They just bring bigger or tougher ships (rail prot) to reinforce your Fortress Of Solitude, and you lose more stuffs.
Packing light also extends to keeping a bare minimum load of ships in your hole. Realistically, in a siege, either you win an engagement over hole control / POS fight, and are able to reship, or you lose hole control and get podded out. Not much use having 12 different special purpose T3's if you can't actually get back to use them. J's before K's. Sudden Buggery is recruiting w-nerds and w-noobs. Mail your resume in today! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
810
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pack light is definitly a good way to cut down on costs and the posibility of losing everything you own to a random gang or eviction.
Something I have noticed over the past few month, which makes sense with what you say about towers, if a corps wants you out, the tower is not going to stop them. Its all about what you can field (or if you have friends) that will decide whether you keep the hole.
I don't know anything about reaction POS's so I can't comment on the upkeep of them, but there was a Large POS the other day in a C1 that had a Chimera sat floating unmanned in the FF. That must have cost a lot to run and put up and they certainly arent getting the ISK from their sites, they just seemed to make themselves a target. Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
1571
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 07:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maybe they like that. Chimera in a C1 is certainly a drawcard. J's before K's. Sudden Buggery is recruiting w-nerds and w-noobs. Mail your resume in today! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
77
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 07:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
@OP: Incursionrunners are the l33tiest of people. They are running sites that are harder than any PvP, they train more than AT teams (except CODE ofc), they have the best FCs. Just ask them. The risk is so high they have to officerfit, mostly the tank ofc. This is also the reason why they are so poor, because they loose at least one ship a week (not the player, the entire community) and have to do SRP. And to make it worse about 10% of their income isn-¦t instant ISK but some supervaluable LP that you actually have to fly around and sell somewhere for moneys. It is also not possible to ISbox about half an incursionfleet with ducttaped-up mice. They also had to build a community with the common goal of MOAR ISK where you have to not be utterly stupid to get money. Not a corp or alliance where there would be some actual risk besides not repping in time or shooting the trigger (since that will not kill you in a C4 mag, nonono). Also if you or someone in your corp ever pisses off one of those glorious selfless "FCs" you will get banned from that community. Because they are so pretty princesses the shitstorm if one of them plays "pop the mom" is so strong CCP now actually has to make sure there is always an incursion up, so they can-¦t **** each other up. If you need entertainment and there is nothing on TV, just grab some popcorn and listen to incurion soundclouds. Just make sure to not take them serious esp when trying to debate with them since they usually are so narrowminded that you will want to rip your **** off.
/end
There are a few kinds of people who come fresh to j-space. The uninformed, who wants to try something new and exciting. Doesn-¦t know anything about isk/h looses his first ship to sleepers ans the second one to suddenly T3s. The 50% that still stay and often join an established group will get decent at the game and mostly be an asset to any corp anywhere in eve. But they will realize how ****** isk/h is and eigher move to a c4+ or make money somewhere else. The pro, usually an ex-nullbear or heavy lvl4 runner with maxed farmingskills. Easily spotted by his "looking for c5/6 corp" and his question about lootsplitting less than 5 minutes into the interview. If he doesn-¦t make his 3B in the first month he will go back to his sov-0.0 friends and you will spot him from time to time when he warps his rattingcarriers to the station the moment you enter local. The daytripper is someone who played in wormholes before by jumping in from high/low. Now his group is inactive/disbanded or he was solo and he is looking to do it fulltime now. Knows what he is getting into, doesn-¦t come for isk/h. The masochist, who actually knows how wormholelife outside of a purefarming corp is, who knows isk/h mean nothing since you spend so much time doing nonisk stuff, who has waited days for a good hole to move his stuff into his new home. Who then had to chase after his ship because POS decided to try launching it into the sun, who had his stuff stolen because POS security = joke. He will also soon figure out that forumpvp is easier to find that fights in wormholespace and thus will be posting a lot in here. |
Borsek
Incertae Sedis
235
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 09:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well, I'll probably try to realize the momkill idea, if I actually have the time. The tears must flow. |
Mizhir
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
66707
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 09:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
As someone who has run a fair amount of incursions then I don't really recognize the awful comms. But then it might be because I only run with the only good community.
I'm still shocked by the misinformation about WHs in that thread. I would never dream about doing sites in low class WHs because it is just not worth it when I can pull in up to 200mil/hr completely safe in highsec. One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
651
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:As long as you don't make too much noise or give people a reason to dislike you, it's pretty easy to hold down a C5. The best advice would be to pack light though. Have everything you own fit in either a carrier or an Orca so that you can just log it off should you get evicted. As always, having friends helps with not being evicted. Can confirm again (Jester, stop being right). Held a c5 (J105822) for over a year with just myself and one other guy. No one really messed with us.
My posting is a delicate balance between fullblown autism and good information.
Mizhir wrote:As someone who has run a fair amount of incursions then I don't really recognize the awful comms. But then it might be because I only run with the only good community.
I'm still shocked by the misinformation about WHs in that thread. I would never dream about doing sites in low class WHs because it is just not worth it when I can pull in up to 200mil/hr completely safe in highsec.
I've only run with TVP, but from what I've heard it's the most cancerous of comms. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3688
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:According to this thread, wormholes are far less dangerous, easier to organise logistics for and set up, than incursions. now now, to be fair, organizing an average incursion fleet IS kinda like herding cats.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
103
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Borsek wrote:wormholes are more similar to somalian pirating.
I've always seen it like an Old West ranch. You got your Ranch and Prairie (POS and System), your cattle (Sleepers). Every so often Cattle Rustlers come in (Sleeper Site runners) and you gotta get your gun and go protect your livestock. Indian tribes sweep through the system (Ganker Fleets) and you even get to rob the Stage Coach (Haulers in Static).
Plus every so often a Giant Mechanical Spider comes through and blows everything up (Blood Union)
Though I can live with being a Somali Pirate. |
Borsek
Incertae Sedis
237
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 12:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
BayneNothos wrote:Borsek wrote:wormholes are more similar to somalian pirating. I've always seen it like an Old West ranch. You got your Ranch and Prairie (POS and System), your cattle (Sleepers). Every so often Cattle Rustlers come in (Sleeper Site runners) and you gotta get your gun and go protect your livestock. Indian tribes sweep through the system (Ganker Fleets) and you even get to rob the Stage Coach (Haulers in Static). Plus every so often a Giant Mechanical Spider comes through and blows everything up (Blood Union) Though I can live with being a Somali Pirate.
I was thinking more along the lines of freighter ships coming through, which you rob - sleeper sites, and every now and then you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and a seal team gets dropped on you. You're also aggressive and attack anything that moves.
Of course, your example works just as well, if not better. |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
653
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 14:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
BayneNothos wrote:Borsek wrote:wormholes are more similar to somalian pirating. I've always seen it like an Old West ranch. You got your Ranch and Prairie (POS and System), your cattle (Sleepers). Every so often Cattle Rustlers come in (Sleeper Site runners) and you gotta get your gun and go protect your livestock. Indian tribes sweep through the system (Ganker Fleets) and you even get to rob the Stage Coach (Haulers in Static). Plus every so often a Giant Mechanical Spider comes through and blows everything up (Blood Union) Though I can live with being a Somali Pirate.
Please advise on how to spread smallpox to the indians If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Borsek
Incertae Sedis
237
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 15:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:
Please advise on how to spread smallpox to the indians
Make wormholes spit capitals out at 13km... oh, wait. |
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MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
36
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 15:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Borsek wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:
Please advise on how to spread smallpox to the indians
Make wormholes spit capitals out at 13km... oh, wait.
Nah, if you really want them to get smallpox, just make special tiny wormholes that can't be closed but also can't be used to move anything bigger than a destroyer..... oh wait. |
Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 16:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Don't forget the mass regeneration, like herpes the gift that keeps on given! You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
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Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
811
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 16:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:Borsek wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:
Please advise on how to spread smallpox to the indians
Make wormholes spit capitals out at 13km... oh, wait. Nah, if you really want them to get smallpox, just make special tiny wormholes that can't be closed but also can't be used to move anything bigger than a destroyer..... oh wait. For some reason the infection keeps getting in... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
46
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 17:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Awesome thread is awesome specially Shihalahalahalazaar's post |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
104
|
Posted - 2014.08.23 06:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:
Please advise on how to spread smallpox to the indians
Vexor hull sentry drones? |
TomyLobo
U2EZ
136
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 04:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Most incursion communities were pretty lax until the wardeck exploit which lead to some lol worthy videos but still, you don't crap where you eat and I don't blame incursion communities for putting measures in place to prevent such events from happening again.
TDF gets my vote for incursions and they fly simply armor. More relaxed set of peeps in general compared to DIN, TVP and co. That doesn't mean there's no whiteknighting which I find kind of necessary in dismaying your average wannabe pvper that gets an hard on when they come in contact with blinged out ships.
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Shaklu
Pride Rock
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.26 18:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote: Please advise on how to spread smallpox to the indians
Vigorously support CCP changes to wormholes. That ought to get 'em all fired up. |
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