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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:11:00 -
[331] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. I would like to see an in space, flight museum added where we can go to view these ships. Place a beacon in amarr or something and put a model of each rare ship out there. I think that's called sisi or Google images |
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
18
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:15:00 -
[332] - Quote
Febreeze wrote:I have to agree, its too bad CCP doesn't understand the importance of history or the impact of their actions.
Quite the opposite... the fact that these ships were banned out of the game via Somer's actions is a new part of EVE history that will likely be mentioned for years to come. "History" doesn't mean everything shiny sticks around so you can look at it in a museum. EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
416
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:16:00 -
[333] - Quote
I am late to this particular thread but I wanted to say that I think CCP's (in particular, Falcon and Leeloo's) response to this situation has been exemplary. They have communicated with the community throughout, they have constantly coordinated with CSM9 and the final outcome was entirely justified. There was one particular part of the final statement posted in the OP of this thread I disagreed with though:
CCP Falcon wrote:CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department). (emphasis mine)
Whilst I believe Somer utilised some pretty vague and tricksy wording in his original proposal and clearly carried out a final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted, it is clear that a submitted proposal was given authorisation by a member of CCP. Whether that person had jurisdiction to sign off on it or not isn't down to Somer but the individual themselves.
To be clear, I believe the final judgement made by CCP in regards to Somer was entirely fair but I also believe that that key point in Falcon's OP is incorrect. That shouldn't take away from their superb handling of this situation overall and I hope this is a benchmark and template should a similar situation arise in the future.
I wanted to bring this up because I have been utterly impressed by Falcon and Leeloo's handling of this situation but this one particular point doesn't ring true for me and having seen others point out the fact on this thread, I felt it important that you heard what this particular CSM representative was thinking. A CSM where all 14 individuals think the same thing all of the time is ultimately pointless after all. www.crossingzebras.com |
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CCP Falcon
8310
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:17:00 -
[334] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:CCP Falcon, is there any chance this might inspire a clearer definition of the third party rules and guidelines going forward? As it stands it seems that they are spread all over the place in articles, blogs, and years of forum posts. A big incident like this one can be kind of intimidating for first-time developers when the rules aren't exactly clearly laid out, especially when the result is a ban and the exact cause of the ban is unknown.
This is still to be determined, but something that I'll be pushing for.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5331
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:17:00 -
[335] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Andski wrote:don't forget passing down all the blame
that is absolutely crucial True true, credit flows up, blame flows down.
That's really where Somer went wrong. Never allow **** to flow uphill when you're anywhere near the top. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2532
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:19:00 -
[336] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:CCP Falcon, is there any chance this might inspire a clearer definition of the third party rules and guidelines going forward? As it stands it seems that they are spread all over the place in articles, blogs, and years of forum posts. A big incident like this one can be kind of intimidating for first-time developers when the rules aren't exactly clearly laid out, especially when the result is a ban and the exact cause of the ban is unknown. This is still to be determined, but something that I'll be pushing for. Thanks a lot, I appreciate it! |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
2060
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:19:00 -
[337] - Quote
Thank you to the ccp community team for their appropriate and decisive action on this matter. Well done. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
35
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:23:00 -
[338] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:I am late to this particular thread but I wanted to say that I think CCP's (in particular, Falcon and Leeloo's) response to this situation has been exemplary. They have communicated with the community throughout, they have constantly coordinated with CSM9 and the final outcome was entirely justified. There was one particular part of the final statement posted in the OP of this thread I disagreed with though: CCP Falcon wrote:CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department). (emphasis mine) Whilst I believe Somer utilised some pretty vague and tricksy wording in his original proposal and clearly carried out a final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted, it is clear that a submitted proposal was given authorisation by a member of CCP. Whether that person had jurisdiction to sign off on it or not isn't down to Somer but the individual themselves. To be clear, I believe the final judgement made by CCP in regards to Somer was entirely fair but I also believe that that key point in Falcon's OP is incorrect. That shouldn't take away from their superb handling of this situation overall and I hope this is a benchmark and template should a similar situation arise in the future. I wanted to bring this up because I have been utterly impressed by Falcon and Leeloo's handling of this situation but this one particular point doesn't ring true for me and having seen others point out the fact on this thread, I felt it important that you heard what this particular CSM representative was thinking. A CSM where all 14 individuals think the same thing all of the time is ultimately pointless after all. Agreed. Even if the particular promotion had received clearance from CCP, verifying something was in compliance with the rules does not constitute an official endorsement of it. In other words, "approved by CCP" would never have been appropriate to list on their site without explicit permission to do so. |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
96
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:25:00 -
[339] - Quote
I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
611
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:28:00 -
[340] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned.
ffs.. it has been answered so many times.
Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over.
*facedesks so hard*
CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman **** or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^
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Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
35
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:28:00 -
[341] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned. My isk balance was refunded early yesterday my time. Outstanding prizes on contract may be an issue but the actual isk was distributed within ~24hrs of the SOMER site listing the message that they were shutting down. |
Accidentally Myname
Myname Replacement Brokerage LLC
26
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:30:00 -
[342] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned. ffs.. it has been answered so many times. Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over. *facedesks so hard*CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman **** or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^
Careful you might lose the other eye! |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
10
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:35:00 -
[343] - Quote
1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors who in return sell to those that are space poor. CCP was making money from this full circle and closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.
I have played this game on and off for 9 years roughly I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.
For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other *******. |
R3A50N
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:36:00 -
[344] - Quote
honestly, rmt problems aside, there's been a lot of hate towards somerblink over the years... in recent memory, there were ddos attacks and bounties on somer and the alliance...so the hate began before the rmt infractions. i think, honestly, it come down to more anger that carebears can make isk through soft means (albeit if luck were on their side) and take away billions from gambling. given enough time, money corrupts all, even fake money we all chase for our respective needs... |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
203
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:37:00 -
[345] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted The proposal was exactly what was carried out, it was just a failure of the reader to "read between the lines" in this case. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3451
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:37:00 -
[346] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors who in return sell to those that are space poor. CCP was making money from this full circle and closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.
I have played this game on and off for 9 years roughly I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.
For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other *******.
You should read up on the scheme.
Somer selling GTCs was not RMT.
Somer selling GTCs with a promise 'cash this in for PLEX, and then I'll buy those PLEX off you for ISK at above market rates' was RMT. It's doing in-game trades that favor people who give you RL money.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
612
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:37:00 -
[347] - Quote
Accidentally Myname wrote:Careful you might lose the other eye!
ahh good point.. though i could just rip a new one out of one of my many corpses ^^ spare parts ftw
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Jeann Valjean
Justified Chaos
42
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:38:00 -
[348] - Quote
Amazing work by CCP and the CSM to resolve this quickly and as openly as possible.
If we had the tools, I'd build a CCP Falcon monument in Jita. Great to see CCP learning from past mistakes.
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DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
612
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:41:00 -
[349] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Told ya Not being swept under the rug, not being waited out in hopes that it goes away. Of course into each life some Rain will fall and nobody is totally good or totally evil. We lost a player today. One who was admired for his genius and innovation in making a HUGE pile of isk. He shared some, kept more and a lot of people enjoyed his service Icarus What you can take away from this. 1) Nobody in Eve is too big to fail 2) There be a new sheriff in town 3) Publishing communications with CCP is a dangerous step 5) Mike like to mess with OCD folks 6) When one witch is burnt people start looking around for something else to light 7) The polite folks got a lot more answers from Falcon than the screamers (unless you LIKE being called 50 shades of dumb) m
8} I will never again sell my character for the educational good of the community. 9} CCP hired a real community team in Falcon and leelo and they are standing ready at the gate. So don't try to mess with their pay check and the 25 million CCP profits from the world we created ( Cause this is all they have at this point) 10} I think SONY ONLINE is a better place for Markee and somer to profit from using others hard work. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2909
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:42:00 -
[350] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again.
Cheers mate. You won't be missed.
Edward Harris wrote: This is still a fault of CCPs lack of internal communication and you are taking it out on a player. Good job. My trust in CCP has dropped to zero and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this is an outrage.
No. Somer made an active decision to try and scrape past the rules. Let's blame the party who made the bad decision, shall we?
This is what actually makes the most angry about the whole thing - the people that act like Somer is the victim in all of this. If Somer hadn't attempted to game the system (for a second freaking time!), none of this would have been necessary. If he hadn't tossed his toys out of the pram, broken the eula deliberately and publicly (re publishing private communications), and had instead let the investigation take its course, he may have been allowed to continue running the gambling site and gotten off with a(nother) warning (assuming CCP could not prove any RMT actually took place).
Somer made the decision. Somer chose to act in bad faith. Somer chose to misrepresent CCP's approval of this scheme.
Somer.Somer.Somer. He may have thought he was too important to Eve to ban. Fortunately for the rest of us, he was wrong. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
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Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
417
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:44:00 -
[351] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted The proposal was exactly what was carried out, it was just a failure of the reader to "read between the lines" in this case.
In my opinion the wording was deliberately vague so as to be interpreted in multiple ways. As I read it, it was not executed as submitted. Others such as yourself may disagree. Either way, I believe someone at CCP clearly signed off on it and shouldn't have if a) they didn't have jurisdiction or b) were in any doubt whatsoever as to what was proposed. www.crossingzebras.com |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
202
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:44:00 -
[352] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors
Somer isn't, nor should be mistaken for, a third party vendor of PLEX/GTC sales.
crimsonshank wrote:closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.
Somer closed their site down. CCP didn't tell them to, per Somer's statement. That's an issue on their end, not CCP's.
crimsonshank wrote:I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.
Citation needed for TMC & GoonSwarm's "RMT practices." Without that evidence, it's simply rumor mongering and hearsay which CCP said not to do in this thread.
crimsonshank wrote:For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other *******.
I'm sorry you are so worked up over a video game you feel the need to throw ad hominem at people who put their free time aside to help the game and it's community out for free. Perhaps you can find, or even make, a better game that isn't so full of issues and problems you seem to be worked up about. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
19
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:47:00 -
[353] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again. Cheers mate. You won't be missed.
Very original insult, please try again later. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:48:00 -
[354] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned. ffs.. it has been answered so many times. Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over. *facedesks so hard* CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman **** or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^
Problem is this boils down - if Somer was punished for RMTing then surely the whole organisation should have its assets locked down? if Somer wasn't punished for RMTing then either Somer or CCP has lied about the information as published by Somer or had a serious breakdown of internal organisation/communication which if its on the CCP side would have put Somer in an untenable position - which leads to far more worrying ramifications in either direction.
CCP needs to be very clear that the information in the proposal as posted by Somer was never appraised by them word for word as published on their site or otherwise they have pretty much incidentally orchestrated the downfall of Somer by their own disorganisation and then punished Somer for it.
If Somer has been disingenuous with the information and essentially mislead CCP for his own ends then that absolutely must be clearly explained also. |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:49:00 -
[355] - Quote
So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob. Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1964
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:51:00 -
[356] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:i wonder if every CCP member has to consult the legal team before making a forum post. But they are read and judged*) by CCL. Does that count?
*) = Only as far as the forum rules go mind you...
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11058
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:53:00 -
[357] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob.
this is nothing but conjecture and it's wrong
Ohkewl wrote:Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program.
also wrong Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
709
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:54:00 -
[358] - Quote
Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure
Well it's been recently noticed that different parts of CCP might not be on the same page. CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
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Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
203
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:55:00 -
[359] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob.
This is an oversimplification and accuses people at CCP of malicious intent. Something that, you know, isn't smart to accuse people of. If you think there's a flaw with what they did or that there were ulterior motives contact CCP's Internal Affairs team with the evidence.
Ohkewl wrote:Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program.
Having an SA account doesn't automatically qualify you for GoonWaffe/GoonSwarm membership. That said, you don't have to have an SA account to get into GoonSwarm so this is, as most of your posts are, slander and hearsay. I know you didn't get your way, but to attack others in the way you're complaining people are "attacking" Somer is rather hypocritical. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
19
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Posted - 2014.08.21 01:01:00 -
[360] - Quote
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4361524732815
Thats all I gotta say about this thread at this point |
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