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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5337
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:21:00 -
[751] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪexcept that you're not exchanging real-life cash for an in-game item. Yo're exchanging OOG cash for an OOG item and you're trading an in-game item for in-game cash. The bits inbetween are just you using CCP's account services. So if you want to use that as your defining feature, you have made the term meaningless since everything is RMT (incidentally, this means it fundamentally fails as a definition).
GǪand that's if you definition was even relevant to begin with, which it isn't. Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is. The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it. Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.
I'll try to clarify to help you out.
1. When you buy a PLEX, you give CCP (or their business partners) OOG money in exchange for an OOG item (a PLEX code). 2. CCP's account services allow you to exchange that OOG item for gametime, either in the form of a month subscription or an IG game time token (a PLEX). 3. You may then, should you choose a game time token, sell that IG item for IG ISK, and use that ISK for whatever you want.
Calling that RMT requires that you argue that step 2 is RMT, as that is the only step in which we see both an in game and out of game component. As that step is simply using CCP's account services, that's going to be a hard argument to make.
And the only relevant definition for RMT with regards to EVE is CCP's definition:
EULA wrote:B. Selling Items and Objects You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
TOS wrote: 10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.
11. The advertisement or sale of out of game goods and services not directly related to EVE online is prohibited. The only out of game goods and services which can be advertised or sold are the following: EVE forum signature creation, website and third party voice communication server hosting or EVE Time Codes.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:34:00 -
[752] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Slicr wrote:Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts. RMT is the exchange of real life currency or assets (with the exception of certain services directly related to EVE) for in-game currency or assets.
Never said I was.
Fact - you can buy Plex with real money Fact - you can buy most things in game with Plex via the contract system or trade Fact - you can give your buddy gaming with you real money to get him to give you a plex or any other tradable item in game.
The fact that it is deemed illegal by CCP does not change the FACT that it can be done. I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
227
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:35:00 -
[753] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct?
No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:37:00 -
[754] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That's not said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture.
Please clarify for the record! |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
227
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:41:00 -
[755] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That's not said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. Please clarify for the record!
Sure.
N-O, T-M-C D-I-D-N-'-T D-O T-H-A-T. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11273
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:49:00 -
[756] - Quote
Nobody ever mentioned anything about them having done that. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:50:00 -
[757] - Quote
I'm enjoying the crazies that are out here. This is the best thing to go to bed to. It's not everyday you go to sleep being accused of RMT even if vaguely. Please keep posting so I have something to read while waiting for my job interview. Thank you for the content. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5864
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:58:00 -
[758] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Slicr wrote:Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is. The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it. Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you. For me RMT is the trade of in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. What is your definition?
I'll tell you what RMT is.
It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. It's also, in the context of this particular thread, a classic false flag operation.
It'll be interesting to see where CCP takes this as more unfolds.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5337
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:01:00 -
[759] - Quote
Slicr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Slicr wrote:Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts. RMT is the exchange of real life currency or assets (with the exception of certain services directly related to EVE) for in-game currency or assets. Never said I was. Fact - you can buy Plex with real money Fact - you can buy most things in game with Plex via the contract system or trade Fact - you can give your buddy gaming with you real money to get him to give you a plex or any other tradable item in game. The fact that it is deemed illegal by CCP does not change the FACT that it can be done.
Number 3 there is RMT.
What's your point? "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
120
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:01:00 -
[760] - Quote
this thread jumped the shark 15 pages ago |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11273
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:08:00 -
[761] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. Apologist. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2913
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:08:00 -
[762] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I'll tell you what RMT is. It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. It's also, in the context of this particular thread, a classic false flag operation. It'll be interesting to see where CCP takes this as more unfolds. Mr Epeen I disagree, I think RMT can have a big impact on any MMO and I, at least, am glad CCP and their security team is on top of enforcement. It may seem inconsequential at first glance, internet pixels and all that, but the complex and vibrant market economy simulation that Eve is home to is one of the unique and awesome things that makes Eve stand out among it's competitors. It would be a true shame to see it wrecked by a bunch of greedy people who are too short-sighted to see that. |
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:08:00 -
[763] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing.
Can you help me understand what is on this page then?
http://themittani.com/news/april-tmc-update-real-space-streamers-and-dota2
Snip from said page: http://imgur.com/FbR3Uyb
This looks like its pay isk for non eve stuff ... what says you? |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:09:00 -
[764] - Quote
John Ending wrote:this thread jumped the shark 15 pages ago
More like after the first post. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2913
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:13:00 -
[765] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing. Can you help me understand what is on this page then? http://themittani.com/news/april-tmc-update-real-space-streamers-and-dota2Snip from said page: http://imgur.com/FbR3UybThis looks like its pay isk for non eve stuff ... what says you? I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go. |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:15:00 -
[766] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture.
You have too said it ,might want to stop posting and actually read what you are typing, go back a few pages you said in two posts the payment for their articles on TMC is unidentified, then on the same page TMC paid their writers in ISK. You flip flop more then a fish out of water. At least stick to one side or the other for Christs sake
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:15:00 -
[767] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing. Can you help me understand what is on this page then? http://themittani.com/news/april-tmc-update-real-space-streamers-and-dota2Snip from said page: http://imgur.com/FbR3UybThis looks like its pay isk for non eve stuff ... what says you?
Then yes, that was what the payment method was. You'll note past tense verbs given that, if you check the date of the article, it was published half a year before Somer Blink 1.0. As stated as well, numerous times for you so you didn't miss out on it, CCP have told sites like TMC to adjust that method. Failure to do so results in punishment. If you have evidence they currently pay in-game ISK for non-EVE IP related content for the site, you'd best provide that to CCP's Security and Community Management teams. Again, not very difficult to understand. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11105
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:18:00 -
[768] - Quote
That article is dated April 2013
CCP asked TMC to stop paying ISK for articles unrelated to EVE IP due to the fallout after Somergate I. TMC complied. What's the issue? Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5868
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:19:00 -
[769] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:I'll tell you what RMT is. It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. It's also, in the context of this particular thread, a classic false flag operation. It'll be interesting to see where CCP takes this as more unfolds. Mr Epeen I disagree, I think RMT can have a big impact on any MMO and I, at least, am glad CCP and their security team is on top of enforcement. It may seem inconsequential at first glance, internet pixels and all that, but the complex and vibrant market economy simulation that Eve is home to is one of the unique and awesome things that makes Eve stand out among it's competitors. It would be a true shame to see it wrecked by a bunch of greedy people who are too short-sighted to see that.
Running a promo that gives you a few dollars a day for a week or whatever is not going to break a game in which you have hundreds of characters being sold for cash, trillions of isk being sold for cash, titans being sold for cash, services being sold for cash, and on and on.
Somer contributed such a small amount to the destruction of the game with this latest promo that it's laughable people are getting so wound up about it.
Like I said. False flag.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11105
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:22:00 -
[770] - Quote
you don't seem to know what a false flag is Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5337
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:24:00 -
[771] - Quote
Andski wrote:you don't seem to know what a false flag is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
Maybe CCP Falcon is Somerset Mahm "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:25:00 -
[772] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go.
Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies.
crimsonshank wrote: You have too said it ,might want to stop posting and actually read what you are typing, go back a few pages you said in two posts the payment for their articles on TMC is unidentified, then on the same page TMC paid their writers in ISK. You flip flop more then a fish out of water. At least stick to one side or the other for Christs sake
Hi, please take the time to read the context of what was said. The comment where you claim I'm "flip flopping" on was the response to you saying:
"The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month"
Which was replied to with
"No. The text shows you can get compensated for writing an Astronomy related article but the specific payment isn't outlined."
Which means, the image shared perviously doesn't say how a non-EVE article is compensated for with non-EVE payment, nor does it say it is compensated for with in-game ISK/EVE goods. TMC, to my knowledge, have not stated publicly how they compensate for non-EVE content, only with how they pay for EVE content on the site to the contributor. You're really trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Oh also it's not flip flopping if it's the same message stated over and over again. So please try to read up on the right terms you want to use before posting. Thanks. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:29:00 -
[773] - Quote
Andski wrote:That article is dated April 2013 CCP asked TMC to stop paying ISK for articles unrelated to EVE IP due to the fallout after Somergate I. TMC complied. What's the issue?
Absolutely no issue, just wanted to be cleared up. All is well! |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2913
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:30:00 -
[774] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go. Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies. There is a more recent article also advertising for the same, as well as Hearthstone and Warframe writers in July of this year. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:34:00 -
[775] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go. Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies. There is a more recent article also advertising for the same, as well as Hearthstone and Warframe writers in July of this year.
http://themittani.com/features/july-site-update-quiet-days
Please point to where they say they'll pay for non-EVE content with in-game ISK? CCP's policy doesn't prohibit them from hiring non-EVE writers. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:40:00 -
[776] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Slicr wrote:As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is: Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game. GǪand they're not RMT for the reasons described. No in-game items are being traded for real money. Quote:Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money. GǣReal moneyGǥ is something vastly different than RMT. Anything associated with your local grocery store is also associated with real money. Anything associated with having a job is associated with real money. And yet, buying some poptarts on your way back from work is not RMT, even though it's associated with real money twice over.
Your first point - Plex for charity takes care of your no-in-game items statement
Your 2nd point - if you pay with a credit card for the PopTarts then yes it is RMT
I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
437
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:42:00 -
[777] - Quote
Argus Sorn wrote:Is there going to be some response regarding this incident and the praise/rewards/compliments/endorsements that SOMER received from several of the community devs...
I just wanted to say I thought this post was superb and I think I am going to take the time to think about, formulate a long form response and write it up on CZ. Good job fella. www.crossingzebras.com |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2920
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:52:00 -
[778] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go. Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies. There is a more recent article also advertising for the same, as well as Hearthstone and Warframe writers in July of this year. http://themittani.com/features/july-site-update-quiet-daysPlease point to where they say they'll pay for non-EVE content with in-game ISK? CCP's policy doesn't prohibit them from hiring non-EVE writers, only that they cannot pay for non-EVE related content with in-game ISK. If you can prove they're paying for non-EVE content with ISK then report it to CCP. Simple as that really. You're absolutely correct, my mistake, I didn't see that there was no explicit mention of paying in isk in the latest post.
You have to admit though with the first post saying they're hiring for isk and the second saying they're still hiring, the implication is pretty strong and a misleading conclusion easily reached. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:56:00 -
[779] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote: You're absolutely correct, my mistake, I didn't see that there was no explicit mention of paying in isk in the latest post.
You have to admit though with the first post saying they're hiring for isk and the second saying they're still hiring, the implication is pretty strong and a misleading conclusion easily reached.
Yes, if you ignore the fact CCP and TMC have changed that policy from 18 months ago six months after the April 2013 post was made. Something that has been stated numerous times. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
623
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 05:03:00 -
[780] - Quote
HarlyQ wrote:I'm enjoying the crazies that are out here. This is the best thing to go to bed to. It's not everyday you go to sleep being accused of RMT even if vaguely. Please keep posting so I have something to read while waiting for my job interview. Thank you for the content.
good luck on the interview |
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