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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
8243
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
The EVE Community Team recently became aware of a new promotion by SOMER Blink, both through communication with the CSM9 and other channels. In this post IGÇÖll discuss the promotion, the concerns raised by it, and CCPGÇÖs response.
For those of you not familiar with SOMER Blink, they are a player-run EVE Online site that is not a business affiliate of CCP and that is managed independently outside of the EVE client. Some EVE players enjoy SOMER Blink because their games and promotions offer an opportunity to win valuable items in EVE using in-game currency, and because SOMER Blink has had a history of supporting other player-run efforts with their in-game profits.
Other EVE players have expressed skepticism over SOMER Blink for a range of reasons, from distaste for such peripheral GÇ£gamesGÇ¥ in the EVE universe to a personal suspicion of an GÇ£end gameGÇ¥ for SOMER Blink similar to past player-run sites which didn't turn out well for player investors.
The Promotion
Around 17 August 2014, SOMER Blink began advertising a new promotion. The basic framework of the promotion was that if a player purchased a PLEX from one of SOMER BlinkGÇÖs affiliates (paying real-world money for the PLEX), then SOMER Blink would repurchase that same PLEX from the player (paying ISK for the PLEX). The promotion is bundled, and creates a constant purchasing loop.
At this point, the facts become muddy. Some claim SOMER Blink received cash from the affiliate as part of the transaction. Some believe SOMER Blink paid inflated ISK prices as a means to undercut other authorized PLEX resellers. Some assert this was simply a value-added service, allowing players to redeem their PLEX without having to go through the steps of personally selling it on the in-game market. In response to the appearance of impropriety in the promotion, the EVE Community team helped lead an immediate investigation.
The Concerns
Our investigation uncovered a number of concerns. For privacy and other reasons, we will not discuss them all. However, we want to comment on three key issues.
First, the promotion could be applied to facilitate the exchange of real-world money for ISK (itGÇÖs indirect, but such transactions usually are). If the promotion were used in this manner, it would be a violation of EVE OnlineGÇÖs EULA and Terms of Service. We will not comment on whether any such violation actually occurred. However, this potential did raise a red flag.
Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement, which misled our players, and is no different than someone pretending to be an authorized representative of CCP (look at paragraph 8 of our Terms of Service). This is a serious violation because it undermines the safety and security of EVE.
CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department). The promotion in question was similar to one SOMER Blink had suggested (the GÇ£PLEX BuyerGÇÖs ClubGÇ¥), but the promotion had been altered before enacted. SOMER Blink certainly had no basis to assert the live promotion was GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥
Finally, following our investigation, CCP tried to resolve our concerns directly with SOMER BlinkGÇÖs founder. In response, the founder published private communications from CCP without authorization. This violates our EULA and Terms of Service (see paragraph 18 of our Terms of Service).
Our Response
We cherish and protect the freedom of our players and the creative ways people interact in EVE. But we also have an obligation to make the game environment safe and secure for everyone.
We believe the actions of SOMER Blink overstepped the bounds of fair play.
After careful consideration and consultation with CSM9, who have displayed an outstanding level of support in assisting with this issue, CCP has taken the decision to permanently ban the founder of SOMER Blink from EVE Online across all accounts, with immediate effect. This is due to multiple violations of our EULA and Terms of Service.
Following the promotion, CCP no longer regards SOMER Blink as a fair or legitimate service within the EVE Community. We are unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, so itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with the process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and/or ISK returned by SOMER Blink will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.
Our actions are not intended to restrict creativity. Rather, we want to ensure that EVE player organizations do not leverage unfair advantage outside of the normal bounds of acceptable gameplay and do not have a detrimental effect on the health of our community, the game environment, or the relationship we have built with our players over the last 11 years. CCP sincerely hopes that players wonGÇÖt take this incident as a sign we want to start micromanaging any of the amazing player services who have operated for days or months or years without breaching the EULA or ToS.
We remain committed to ensuring the playing field remains level, fair, and even for every player. We want you to enjoy EVE for a long time to come GÇô without the risk of misleading or unfair gameplay.
Sincerely,
CCP Falcon, EVE Universe Community Manager
On behalf of CCP Games CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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CCP Falcon
8243
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
FAQ
What will happen to ISK and / or assets that I have deposited into the accounts of SOMER Blink?
If you have deposited in game items or currency with SOMER Blink in good faith, CCP will not provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy. However, SOMER Blink has offered to reimburse ISK to players as part of their closure. We will be monitoring this closely, and have no intention of interfering with the process, so long as the ISK returned has not been involved in any rule breaking activity. We feel very strongly that allowing players to be able to have their assets and/or ISK returned by SOMER Blink is a positive part of the resolution to this issue.
IGÇÖve used SOMER Blink services in the past, am I in trouble?
Unless you have been involved in direct violations of our policies there is no reason to be concerned. We do not intend to pursue or reprimand individual players who have used SOMER BlinkGÇÖs services and have not broken the gameGÇÖs rules.
What will happen to the people who worked for SOMER Blink?
We have no intention of issuing any reprimand against those people who chose to volunteer and assist the operations of SOMER Blink in good faith.
Does this mean that player run services that have game items as prizes are now no longer permitted in the EVE Universe?
We will continue to evaluate how player-run services operate according to our responsibility as the creators and maintainers of EVE Online, but, as aforementioned, we would much rather celebrate the ingenuity of players and continue to support the greater player-run EVE ecosystem than try to dial back on anything. ThereGÇÖs a rich history of programs that reward players for their participation in games of chance and skill, and as long as they are above board weGÇÖre good with them.
Why did you not take action regarding this in 2013?
The issues that occurred last year were different and unconnected with the more recent problems. In 2013, CCP took appropriate action and SOMER Blink complied with our requests.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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CCP Falcon
8243
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you have any further questions or comments, please keep them to this thread.
Please also ensure that you keep discussion on topic, and within the boundaries of the forum rules.
Thanks,
- F CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
68
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
In the handbook of GÇ£How Not to Get Permabanned,GÇ¥ not publishing private communications between you and the VP of global sales is on page one. Classic novice mistake. |
Ali Aras
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
734
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Once again, I deeply appreciate the speed and thoroughness of the CCP response on this one, as well as the openness to CSM involvement. Great job, guys. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Major JSilva
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
263
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'll have Xander send you some fuzzy slippers. It will be fine. Twitter: @Silva117 |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3687
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for the time everyone put in.
Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Mangala Solaris
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1096
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
The willingness of CCP to be totally open with the CSM has been exemplary when it comes to this issue. Reaching a successful conclusion thanks to a serious amount of work on their part in a short amount of time.
Everyone should donate some sleep to Falcon especially. RvB Ganked: EVE's Number One Public Roam |
Sugar Kyle
Snuff Box
675
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thank you for listening to the requests for clear answers to how CCP handled this and keeping the community updated. Low Sec Lifestyle - A Blog |
I Want ISK
I Want ISK Corp
11
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would like to know how anyone could get their link white listed on this forum like Somer BLINK did. Thanks! |
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111010110
The Darwin Initiative
17
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
So, what about the Markee Dragon element in all of this? |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4748
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Are you concerned that banning Somer might lock up ISK/assets that could otherwise be used to repay players? CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11239
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Look at all the tags. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Karbowiak
Superior Mass
188
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Whats up with the CSM circlejerk? lol |
KIllerJon
Snuff Box
11
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
good job leeloo, falcon & csmites for going about this the right way + the stupid hours KJ |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3715
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Being at work means I didn't get in ahead of everyone else like the rest of the cool kids, but that's okay. All I can say is Falcon's handling of this has been stellar. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Cherry Yeyo
68
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
This was a quick resolution and a fair decision. CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4748
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Double post, delete CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11239
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Two step wrote:Are you concerned that banning Somer might lock up ISK/assets that might otherwise be used to repay players? Are you concerned about your post being buried? Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
DexterShark
The Night Watchmen The Bastion
32
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
It looks to me like CCP Falcon just delivered a 3-day masterclass in community crisis management. Good work, chief.
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Rain6637
Team Evil
15741
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
o7
RE: Steve (sir) that convo we had going. I would like to follow it up in an EVEmail, if that's alright. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
432
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thank you CCP Falcon for this statement.
And thanks to all involved for clearing that up so fast and yet thorough.
Edit: The Forums continue to have issues updating itself with newly submitted/edited posts EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1043
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
DexterShark wrote:It looks to me like CCP Falcon just delivered a 3-day masterclass in community crisis management. Good work, chief.
Agreed. This was handled so much better than last time. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6022
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Karbowiak wrote:Whats up with the CSM circlejerk? lol
It's called: Control the message.
Thanks CCP for doing the right thing and swiftly this time.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
SomeDudeInLocal
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Are users who made use of the recent service also subject to punishment regarding the incident?
In particular, anyone that may have used the service in faith of Somer having the now invalid Approval from CCP? |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5329
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Me likey CCP Birdman "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
842
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gambling is haram anyway . |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
225
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
111010110 wrote:So, what about the Markee Dragon element in all of this?
As Falcon said that there is no proof of RMT you can figure it out yourself. |
Frantico
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
36
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
I get why he got banned. BUT with banning him you also banned almost 30% of all the Unique ships in eve alliance turney ships of old and other ships that just dont exist anywhere else its alot of history that has been in 1 persons assets. for a game that is built around its rich history.
so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.
whatever you choose to do CCP dont ruin the eve History by removing these ships from the game |
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
545
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Any consideration regarding the fact that this action will most likely remove a large number of unique items from the game (namely, numerous AT prize ships and other not-obtainable-ever-again type ships that are/were in possession of Somer)?
A potential solution would be to auction these unique items through public contracts with the ISK going to CCP (ie. removed from the game). Might even help fight the inflation a bit :) |
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Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
225
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
SomeDudeInLocal wrote:Are users who made use of the recent service also subject to punishment regarding the incident?
In particular, anyone that may have used the service in faith of Somer having the now invalid Approval from CCP?
Did you participate in RMT?
If yes, you're in danger. If not, fly safe! |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1493
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sadnessesary Build your empire ! Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis Contact me for details :)
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111010110
The Darwin Initiative
18
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Karbowiak wrote:Whats up with the CSM circlejerk? lol
Narrative control. When dealing with a communicative trend within a community without control over its direction you must have a united front visible in people's perception so folks get to instinctively focus only on the message put in place.
Besides, after having had quite a bit of headache moments, meetings and more of that, it's understable that folks who've just spent a lot of time together collectively sign off. |
Destiny Calling
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
38
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP was always going to strike first. If no one at SomerBlink was prepared for this I don't know what to tell you.
LOL |
Wrik Hoover
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
77
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP should ban anyone who played Somer Blink in the last month, because they were activly helping someone to RMT.
Get out of my game u pay2win scum, ur ruining my gaming experience. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
12
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again. |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society Affirmative.
343
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Two step wrote:Are you concerned that banning Somer might lock up ISK/assets that could otherwise be used to repay players? I was wondeirng the same... Especially cause the bans are "with immediate effect". |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11040
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Any consideration regarding the fact that this action will most likely remove a large number of unique items from the game (namely, numerous AT prize ships and other not-obtainable-ever-again type ships that are/were in possession of Somer)?
A potential solution would be to auction these unique items through public contracts with the ISK going to CCP (ie. removed from the game). Might even help fight the inflation a bit :)
nobody's going to fly them anyway Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
mack trucker
Dead's Prostitutes The Bastion
0
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
To be honest i am glad somer blink is getting shut down, from my own investgation I have found that the bonks and mini bonks was rigged along with the 50 bill blast with that said I have found that the ones that was spending RL money to buy the plex's was the ones always winnings with multi accounts , Though I have not brought this up to CCP I felt it was not my place to say something untill CCP saw it forthem selfs, now with that said what about the billions of isk spent before hand well that be returned to the honest players or its sorry your loss? |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4402
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
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Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
225
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Wrik Hoover wrote:CCP should ban anyone who played Somer Blink in the last month, because they were activly helping someone to RMT.
Get out of my game u pay2win scum, ur ruining my gaming experience.
Did you even read what Falcon posted?
There was no evidence of RMT. |
Lord Xander
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
57
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Major JSilva wrote:I'll have Xander send you some fuzzy slippers. It will be fine.
Can you leave me out of this SOMER stuff, I lost 25bil to them so! I don-¦t wanna think about it any more! |
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
33
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:In the handbook of GÇ£How Not to Get Permabanned,GÇ¥ not publishing private communications between you and the VP of global sales is on page one. Classic novice mistake.
So Mr. Goon-CSM, just out of curiosity, how would you have reacted if your account got suspended and everything was shut down without any notification? I see it as an act of desperation, since they apparently had an OK from a VP position. I suppose that word means nothing. Btw, if you want to be official about it - do you see any disclaimer in those statements? I know we use them in our company.
This is still a fault of CCPs lack of internal communication and you are taking it out on a player. Good job. My trust in CCP has dropped to zero and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this is an outrage.
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Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
12
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
Also yeah she may have broken the EULA but the was clearly wrong on BOTH sides way to accept responsibility CCP as per usual we still can't trust CCP or the majority of the CSM kiss asses.
Let Jita burn to the ground |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6024
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
-+-+GÖ¼-+-»-+GÖ¬-+-+GÖ¬-+-»-+GÖ½-+-+The wheels on the bus go thump-thump-thump. -+-+GÖ¼-+-»-+GÖ¬-+-+GÖ¬-+-»-+GÖ½-+-+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Zverofaust
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
142
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
u have gone too far this time ccp who will join me to protest in jita well see how ccp likes having 10000 players outside jita!!!!!!!!!! LETS DO THIS PPL!!!!!!!!!! |
Lord Xander
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
57
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
Major JSilva wrote:I'll have Xander send you some fuzzy slippers. It will be fine.
Can you leave me out of this SUMER Stuff, I lost 25bil to them and i don-¦t wanna think about it any more tia! |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
18
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:111010110 wrote:So, what about the Markee Dragon element in all of this? As Falcon said that there is no proof of RMT you can figure it out yourself.
I didn't mention RMT. There's plenty of angles here. ToS, policies, best practices, the perception problem among many (the folks who think Somer = Markee), the questions concering the things many consider strange (some even suspect) like sole source of 30D trials, teaming up with Somer right after the previous failed scheme CCP had to crack down on, a guy advocating RMT publicly getting a Community Spotlight - I've seen that and tons more pass by on plenty external forums, as well as these.
We've had our share of perception problems over the years. The ones CCP dealt with generated a fresh breath and always reaffirmed the relation between CCP and its customers. The ones they didn't deal with festered until CCP had to - typically after painful wakeup calls.
I'm not even mentioning how the leaked correspondence references Markee involved in the scheme, or Somer wiggling to cover Markee's commercial interests (though it should be noted, something CCP recognises in these statements, that neither Somer nor Markee sought out a formalisation of a promotion or scheme. CCP's VP Sales offered. Neither of them pursued it however. In a nutshell, Markee's involved - and is a commercial partner of CCP.
Sure, I doubt anyone will figure out what passed between Somer and Markee. But it is in CCP's interest to not leave shadows like in the past. Not for now, it's just stuff which always comes back to taint things. With a second decade, I'd much rather see clear waters.
So, what about the Markee Dragon element in all of this. |
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
the holtzman experience
53
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
(and good riddance)-¦ |
Eveli
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
7
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
Bye bye SOMER |
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Tyra Yanks
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
We'll miss you SomerBlink and we hope that CCP won't leave EVERY SINGLE ISK and RARE SHIP to go to waste.....
We can't even IMAGINE how much isk you have and how many rare items that will NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY AGAIN because of this mess. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5846
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
Frantico wrote: so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.
No. They absolutely shouldn't. They have never removed assets from accts before to return to the game.
You really want every ban to become a 'EVE banned me for my assets' threadnaught? Their only option is to walk away from this and leave the whiners to whine. It's not whether they would be honest about it. It's whether they'd be perceived to be honest.
Banning accts and taking the assets to recycle is a can of worms that CCP really doesn't want to open.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11040
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:So Mr. Goon-CSM, just out of curiosity, how would you have reacted if your account got suspended and everything was shut down without any notification? I see it as an act of desperation, since they apparently had an OK from a VP position. I suppose that word means nothing.
If CCP approached me about something I'm doing I probably wouldn't tell them to **** off and then drag their names through the mud by publishing private correspondence and otherwise acting in bad faith. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
149
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
I feel this drama could should have been avoided by having clearer rules and better communication between CCP and third parties. If we as players have to accept the "greyness" of the flexible rules from CCP then CCP in return owes the community a duty to communicate better with those straying too far into the grey areas, and let them know there be dragons. The very dramatic way this played out has hurt everyone. I feel if CCP had paid more attention and talked to Somer more this could all have been avoided.
So saying thanks to CCP for handling it as a serious priority and keeping the community informed. Good job. |
Alli Ginthur
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
9
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
I honestly hope CCP doesn't do anything about the locked assets/AT ships/et al. It'll be a nice history lesson for people about faith in the game Eve:Online. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
186
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
So as to appease the people accusing sites like CrossignZebras.com, EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. as well as tossing in EVE focused YouTube channels.
Is the promotion of using an Amazon referral link to buy PLEX, which would give a small percentage based kickback to the referrer a violation of any of CCP's policies? For example, I run the YouTube channel YouTube.com/UbaStij and after doing a video on say "How To Align Like A Pro" I mention there is an Amazon link in the description which leads to Amazon's store to buy a PLEX. I state "buying a PLEX through this Amazon link will help keep me operating this service for you the consumer." Is that permitted?
What if I operated the channel with several underlings who were compensated for their contributions in ISK and not through real money? Is it still permitted to promote purchasing through our Amazon referral link to maintain our overhead costs?
I know this has been answered previously, but some people make the assumption that doing so is no different than the scheme Somer Blink tried last year and this time around and I'd like to have CCP's stance. CSM can weigh in if they want but considering they aren't actually the policy makers it's not going to win people over in my assumption. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
362
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:57:00 -
[57] - Quote
Actually banned the RMTers this time? Yes Didn't punish them with special limited edition ships? Yes Didn't give them a grace period in which they openly stepped up their RMTing while everyone watched in disbelief? Yes
By God CCP, have you learned something? Or is this just what happens when policies are largely dictated by dice roll? Either way, you actually got something right this time. |
Frocke
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
RIP the Somer Blink promomatic courtesy of RibeyeJaksom :(
Made about 1.5T with it heh |
Marsha Mallow
1458
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
Thanks to all involved for dealing with this appropriately, especially Falcon for going above and beyond with updates and maintaining a dialogue with the players.
I know the CSM were already on their way for the Summit, but it's clear the non-attendees were involved too and I imagine emergency meetings gobble up a fair chunk of time. You don't often get chance to demonstrate all the work put in, but incidents like this make it obvious just how valuable community reps are.
Pleasantly surprised you permabanned the person involved so swiftly (making that internal communication public really did cross the line). Fair play to him for agreeing to honour ingame obligations though, let's hope the organisation follows through. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
NFain
Elysian. Orderly Misconduct
76
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again.
Brahan Seer wrote:Also yeah she may have broken the EULA but the was clearly wrong on BOTH sides way to accept responsibility CCP as per usual we still can't trust CCP or the majority of the CSM kiss asses.
Let Jita burn to the ground
I thought you unsubbed already. |
|
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
225
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
Alli Ginthur wrote:I honestly hope CCP doesn't do anything about the locked assets/AT ships/et al. It'll be a nice history lesson for people about faith in the game Eve:Online.
Yes, it's an excellent history lesson in "How to break the EULA intentionally and lose your assets". |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 19:59:00 -
[62] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:Actually banned the RMTers this time? Yes.
Well. Maybe. Could be yes. Could be one of the two. Could be just the front man / expendable dude. In any case they picked the ToS / EULA angle, which in regards to the case of Somer has concluded matters. Anything else, well, that's in the hands of CCP.
|
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1296
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:00:00 -
[63] - Quote
Well done all. Good stuff. Much faster than I expected! Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:So as to appease the people accusing sites like CrossignZebras.com, EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. as well as tossing in EVE focused YouTube channels.
Is the promotion of using an Amazon referral link to buy PLEX, which would give a small percentage based kickback to the referrer a violation of any of CCP's policies? For example, I run the YouTube channel YouTube.com/UbaStij and after doing a video on say "How To Align Like A Pro" I mention there is an Amazon link in the description which leads to Amazon's store to buy a PLEX. I state "buying a PLEX through this Amazon link will help keep me operating this service for you the consumer." Is that permitted?
What if I operated the channel with several underlings who were compensated for their contributions in ISK and not through real money? Is it still permitted to promote purchasing through our Amazon referral link to maintain our overhead costs?
I know this has been answered previously, but some people make the assumption that doing so is no different than the scheme Somer Blink tried last year and this time around and I'd like to have CCP's stance. CSM can weigh in if they want but considering they aren't actually the policy makers it's not going to win people over in my assumption.
Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice. |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
585
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:01:00 -
[65] - Quote
Well I'm very happy with the result and the fact its been sorted in under a week. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23976
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:01:00 -
[66] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:As Falcon said that there is no proof of RMT you can figure it out yourself. Where did he say that?
Adrie Atticus wrote:Wrik Hoover wrote:CCP should ban anyone who played Somer Blink in the last month, because they were activly helping someone to RMT.
Get out of my game u pay2win scum, ur ruining my gaming experience. Did you even read what Falcon posted? There was no evidence of RMT. Did you? There is no such claim in the post. All they're saying on the matter is that GÇ£[they] will not comment on whether any such violation actually occurred.GÇ¥ This is per usual for RMT investigations. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5329
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:01:00 -
[67] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:111010110 wrote:So, what about the Markee Dragon element in all of this? As Falcon said that there is no proof of RMT you can figure it out yourself.
That is, in fact, not what he said.
CCP Falcon wrote:We will not comment on whether any such violation actually occurred. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Angelica Scatterbrain
WH United
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:01:00 -
[68] - Quote
Can't have anyone knowing what really goes on behind the curtain, therefore permaban. Good job CCP. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6026
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
In before the Inevitable Internet Lawyers start coming out.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
347
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:02:00 -
[70] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote: Btw, if you want to be official about it - do you see any disclaimer in those statements? I know we use them in our company.
Even if there was, those disclaimers are pretty much worthless anyway |
|
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
75
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
Karbowiak wrote:Whats up with the CSM circlejerk? lol
What kind of Comrades of Stellar Meetings would we be if we didn't march in step? |
Shinnyo
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
So now that he's banned, can CCP give us an idea of how much ISK and ships were removed from the game? :D |
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope Gallente Federation
461
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:03:00 -
[73] - Quote
When does the ban take affect? How the **** do you remove a signature? |
bacon lettuce tomato
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
This entire thing is like a parody of actual important people getting worked up over something that doesn't really matter at all, in the real world.
|
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:03:00 -
[75] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:Karbowiak wrote:Whats up with the CSM circlejerk? lol What kind of Comrades of Stellar Meetings would we be if we didn't march in step?
Bunch of ******* tools who don't care about the community, your just puppets for CCP to use as a scapegoat when they do **** people don't like to use you as a visage of what the community wants is a fallacy that needs to be purged from this game |
|
CCP Manifest
C C P C C P Alliance
1092
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:04:00 -
[76] - Quote
DexterShark wrote:It looks to me like CCP Falcon just delivered a 3-day masterclass in community crisis management. Good work, chief.
Not to take away from Falcon's heroics as the coordinator, but it was a group effort here at CCP, with the CSM, and of course with the players who were discussing all the different angles.
I don't want that last part to be lost in all this. To the Communications Team (Community and PR), it is very important to see dialogue flowing between players even if they are on opposite sides of the aisle. Thanks for posting. Wherever you did, there's a darn good chance my eyeballs and others read it during the course of the investigation.
Now for a nap. I'd cuddle with Falcon, but he's across the ocean.
OK nap time over, back to regularly scheduled programming. ======== o7 CCP Manifest | Public Relations and Social Media | @ccp_manifest |
|
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
545
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:04:00 -
[77] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again.
If you REALLY want to give away your isk through gambling, there is iwantisk.com which appears to do similar things.
|
Marsha Mallow
1458
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:04:00 -
[78] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:What kind of Comrades of Stellar Meetings would we be if we didn't march in step? We've been waiting for spoon thowing competitions for ages now, make it happen DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
773
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:04:00 -
[79] - Quote
More encouraging news on this issue -- I want to give my sincere thanks to CCP for handling this issue in the correct manner, and wish them the best of luck seizing all of the assets which have undoubtedly been squirreled away and otherwise hidden from view as you extinguish somer from the game. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:05:00 -
[80] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:111010110 wrote:So, what about the Markee Dragon element in all of this? As Falcon said that there is no proof of RMT you can figure it out yourself. That is, in fact, not what he said. CCP Falcon wrote:We will not comment on whether any such violation actually occurred.
Which isn't just understandable. It's the right thing to do here. This is one of those situations (again) where in-game bleeds back and forth with out of game, the commercial aspect as well.
You can't be surprised that folks will try to assert their own narrative from that though :P Stockholm Syndrome in Space.
|
|
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:05:00 -
[81] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again. If you REALLY want to give away your isk through gambling, there is iwantisk.com which appears to do similar things.
Theres is such a sham its disgusting somer was far more community driven and ticket prices far more reasonable on most items |
Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
25
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
With the discussion of referrals and third party retailers fresh on the minds of many, will this open up internal discussion of changing the way referrals work?
I understand the theory behind referrals is to help community sites (such as Dotlan, or EVE University with their Wiki) offset costs of operation, something that CCP wishes to do as it helps both with exposure of the product as well as makes the community a richer place.
So with the elimination of ETC and the movement to PLEX exclusively, what is stopping a change in referral links to act the same way 21 day trial referrals work? I want to support a community site, and when I click on their referral link, I am directed to the EVE Account Management page, where I can purchase a PLEX and the referring site gets credit for their referral. What is preventing this scenario from becoming reality?
|
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
225
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:06:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:As Falcon said that there is no proof of RMT you can figure it out yourself. Where did he say that? Adrie Atticus wrote:Wrik Hoover wrote:CCP should ban anyone who played Somer Blink in the last month, because they were activly helping someone to RMT.
Get out of my game u pay2win scum, ur ruining my gaming experience. Did you even read what Falcon posted? There was no evidence of RMT. Did you? There is no such claim in the post. All they're saying on the matter is that GÇ£[they] will not comment on whether any such violation actually occurred.GÇ¥ This is per usual for RMT investigations.
There was no mention of a ban happening because of the RMT clauses of the EULA but he did disclose (against normal policy) the sections which were used against somer in the ban consideration.
Unless you can summon Falcon to confirm this, the ban had nothing do to with RMT. |
Mangala Solaris
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1103
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:What kind of Comrades of Stellar Meetings would we be if we didn't march in step? We've been waiting for spoon thowing competitions for ages now, make it happen
Would paying Ankh to give us lessons be too much? RvB Ganked: EVE's Number One Public Roam |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
713
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:06:00 -
[85] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Any consideration regarding the fact that this action will most likely remove a large number of unique items from the game (namely, numerous AT prize ships and other not-obtainable-ever-again type ships that are/were in possession of Somer)?
A potential solution would be to auction these unique items through public contracts with the ISK going to CCP (ie. removed from the game). Might even help fight the inflation a bit :) ironically, ccp doing that through somer was the exact thing that first focused the community's eye of sauron on what was going on with somer's old rmt operation |
Zedrik Cayne
The Illuminati... The Illuminati.....
221
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:06:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Frantico wrote: so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.
No. They absolutely shouldn't. They have never removed assets from accts before to return to the game. You really want every ban to become a 'EVE banned me for my assets' threadnaught? Their only option is to walk away from this and leave the whiners to whine. It's not whether they would be honest about it. It's whether they'd be perceived to be honest. Banning accts and taking the assets to recycle is a can of worms that CCP really doesn't want to open. Mr Epeen
Too late. If you go back to some of the economics bits in CSM8's minutes talks you may remember that they have banned accounts and siezed PLEX, and then returned the plex to the market to guide the market. The can of worms is open.
I has a sad for Blink. Never played, know many who did play. And hope that the controlled shutdown goes as controlled as controlled can. You are the internet equivalent of a Mars bar filled with stupid. |
Tao Dolcino
Jolly Jumpers Squad
340
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:07:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ah, finally a clear and straight action, CCP. How often i would have loved to see that kind of behavior and communication during all these years, all these crisis which slowly destroyed every last crumbs of trust. Keep it that way : Honesty, transparency and equality. Then maybe you'll save EVE from rotting after all. Good job. Favoritism is good - CCP 2013 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11241
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Frantico wrote: so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.
No. They absolutely shouldn't. They have never removed assets from accts before to return to the game. You really want every ban to become a 'EVE banned me for my assets' threadnaught? Their only option is to walk away from this and leave the whiners to whine. It's not whether they would be honest about it. It's whether they'd be perceived to be honest. Banning accts and taking the assets to recycle is a can of worms that CCP really doesn't want to open. Mr Epeen For once you've made a post that I agree with. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote: there's a darn good chance my eyeballs and others read it during the course of the investigation.
Now for a nap. I'd cuddle with Falcon, but he's across the ocean.
OK nap time over, back to regularly scheduled programming.
/me hugs Manifest, I always wanted a big brother :-)
Wait, you'd cuddle with Falcon instead of Leeloo?
|
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
268
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:08:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP, I want to say thank you. Not for banning someone, but for sharing the result with the community as openly as you did.
I think this is the first time CCP has publicly announced a specific person and their alts were banned. With potential RMT situations like this, falsely representing CCP, and the other unspecified reasons, I think it is a good idea to move forward with publicly denouncing people like this. I think this will also show CCP that they should not use player run 3rd parties for promotions like those special edition ships (Not the Scorpion issue they had in the past) and in-game assets.
While I still, as always, question the long term future of EVE, I am happy with this result and it has restored a small portion of trust to CCP in me. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11241
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:08:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote:Thanks for posting. I consider posting to be the highest form of PVP. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
16569
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:09:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote:I'd cuddle with Falcon, but he's across the ocean.
Im sure that CCP provides some sort of tele-presence spooning device as part of its benefit package. Don't let a few thousand kilometers of water get in the way of office bromance.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4403
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
Uniques aren't unique as long as there is more than one left. We merely got a bit closer to that. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3692
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:10:00 -
[94] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Thanks to all involved for dealing with this appropriately, especially Falcon for going above and beyond with updates and maintaining a dialogue with the players.
I know the CSM were already on their way for the Summit, but it's clear the non-attendees were involved too and I imagine emergency meetings gobble up a fair chunk of time. You don't often get chance to demonstrate all the work put in, but incidents like this make it obvious just how valuable community reps are.
Pleasantly surprised you permabanned the person involved so swiftly (making that internal communication public really did cross the line). Fair play to him for agreeing to honour ingame obligations though, let's hope the organisation follows through.
Just a note:
The Summit's next month. Any of us flying were for completely different reasons.
I kind of feel sorry for the Americans, alarm clocking the early morning meetings. I just snuck in from work. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
727
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:10:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: At this point, the facts become muddy. Some claim SOMER Blink received cash from the affiliate as part of the transaction. Some believe SOMER Blink paid inflated ISK prices as a means to undercut other authorized PLEX resellers. Some assert this was simply a value-added service, allowing players to redeem their PLEX without having to go through the steps of personally selling it on the in-game market. In response to the appearance of impropriety in the promotion, the EVE Community team helped lead an immediate investigation.
Anyone who purchased GTC via a* somer blink referral link during the period that the previous GTC promotion was suspended and the resumption of the new offer onwards would be credited 1 credit per GTC referral.
This credit could then be redeemed for 1x PLEX to ISK transaction which Somer would pay an above market value for as a "loyalty bonus" for supporting Somer via the GTC purchase.
That is pretty much the long and short of it, I can't speak as to any intentions of under cutting other services, etc. but the intention wasn't as a value added service.
* As far as I'm aware during this time period the only option was MD |
Crazy Mineer
Shifting Sands Trader Cartel Bleak Horizon Alliance.
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:10:00 -
[96] - Quote
QQ somer |
General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
249
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:10:00 -
[97] - Quote
Remember kiddies, Even if a CCP VP of Sales says its ok and go ahead with your promotion, DONT DO IT. Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for. |
Alli Ginthur
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:10:00 -
[98] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Uniques aren't unique as long as there is more than one left. We merely got a bit closer to that.
And let's hope CCP agrees with that sentiment! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23976
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:10:00 -
[99] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. How is it business related if they just get ISK?
Quote:Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. You mean aside from raising multiple severe concerns about favouritism, engaging in RMT, and as mentioned putting the integrity of the CCP-community relationship in question?
Quote:Bunch of ******* tools who don't care about the community, your just puppets for CCP to use as a scapegoat when they do **** people don't like to use you as a visage of what the community wants is a fallacy that needs to be purged from this game. When have they ever done that? And how is it a fallacy to use the CSM to communicate with the community? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:13:00 -
[100] - Quote
Mangala Solaris wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:What kind of Comrades of Stellar Meetings would we be if we didn't march in step? We've been waiting for spoon thowing competitions for ages now, make it happen Would paying Ankh to give us lessons be too much?
...
|
|
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
586
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:14:00 -
[101] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:Karbowiak wrote:Whats up with the CSM circlejerk? lol What kind of Comrades of Stellar Meetings would we be if we didn't march in step? Bunch of ******* tools who don't care about the community, your just puppets for CCP to use as a scapegoat when they do **** people don't like to use you as a visage of what the community wants is a fallacy that needs to be purged from this game
Thought you quit already. Anyway off to do more wh testing. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
34
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
Tippia wrote: And how is it a fallacy to use the CSM to communicate with the community?
How is it a fallacy to discuss banning a player with the goon-infested CSM? Are you being serious?
|
Blobskillz McBlub
Manson Family Advent of Fate
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:14:00 -
[103] - Quote
General Nusense wrote:Remember kiddies, Even if a CCP VP of Sales says its ok and go ahead with your promotion, DONT DO IT.
yes because the ******* sales department has **** all to do with legal questions. Get this into your head it's a good lesson for your life when dealing with corporations.
you got legal questions?
WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT |
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
545
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:16:00 -
[104] - Quote
General Nusense wrote:Remember kiddies, Even if a CCP VP of Sales says its ok and go ahead with your promotion, DONT DO IT.
Especially if you leave important bits out from the proposal.
Also SOMER clearly had the opportunity to ask for a signed letter from CCP Legal.
I can only guess that he didn't because he knew they would say "noooooope" and the email from VP of Sales was kinda-maybe-approval. Except turns out it didn't work as get-out-of-jail-free card this time. Ooops.
|
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
34
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:17:00 -
[105] - Quote
Blobskillz McBlub wrote: yes because the ******* sales department has **** all to do with legal questions. Get this into your head it's a good lesson for your life when dealing with corporations.
you got legal questions?
WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT
Oh, I see - so CCP has nothing to do with CCP. I suppose it was too much to expect from a VP POSITION to take care of the LEGAL questions, right? Yeah, totally out of scope and anyways, **** customers.. |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
269
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:18:00 -
[106] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:General Nusense wrote:Remember kiddies, Even if a CCP VP of Sales says its ok and go ahead with your promotion, DONT DO IT. Especially if you leave important bits out from the proposal. Also SOMER clearly had the opportunity to ask for a signed letter from CCP Legal. I can only guess that he didn't because he knew they would say "noooooope" and the email from VP of Sales was kinda-maybe-approval. Except turns out it didn't work as get-out-of-jail-free card this time. Ooops.
There is also the fact that these private emails were shared without permission or falsified, we as players will probably never know if it was a real or fake emails setup as a way to pass blame and cover tracks. |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
251
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:19:00 -
[107] - Quote
I never liked Somer, his site (which I never played at,) or the degenerate gamblers who made him filthy spacerich, but this was handled exceedingly poorly and pettily by CCP.
If Somer was given approval for what he did by CCP, then he shouldn't have been banned at all and CCP has acted in a despicable manner.
If Somer wasn't given approval for what he did (or if that approval was given and then later explicitly revoked,) then he deserved the same anonymous quiet ban that everybody else gets. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23978
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:19:00 -
[108] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:There was no mention of a ban happening because of the RMT clauses of the EULA but he did disclose (against normal policy) the sections which were used against somer in the ban consideration.
Unless you can summon Falcon to confirm this, the ban had nothing do to with RMT. In other words, he did not say that there was no proof of RMT. All he said that the results of the investigation of RMT will not be made public, as usual in such investigations.
He listed the EULA violations that were out in the open and undeniable, and said that the ban was for GÇ£multiple violations of our EULA and Terms of ServiceGÇ¥ GÇö no specific number was given. It is entirely your interpretation that not revealing the results of the RMT investigations means there was no RMT and that not accidentally revealing the outcome of the investigation by listing that particular violation as well also means the same thing.
So don't claim that he said things he never said.
Edward Harris wrote:Tippia wrote:And how is it a fallacy to use the CSM to communicate with the community? How is it a fallacy to discuss banning a player with the goon-infested CSM? Are you being serious? That didn't answer (or even relate) to the question: how is it a fallacy to use the CSM to communicate with the community? But your question is a good one too: how on earth is it a fallacy to discuss banning a player with the CSM? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
187
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:19:00 -
[109] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote: Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Somer however, were offering ISK credits last year and then attempting to do the same through a PLEX buyback program. They aren't comparable like you're attempting to portray. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11242
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:19:00 -
[110] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:Blobskillz McBlub wrote: yes because the ******* sales department has **** all to do with legal questions. Get this into your head it's a good lesson for your life when dealing with corporations.
you got legal questions?
WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT
Oh, I see - so CCP has nothing to do with CCP. I suppose it was too much to expect from a VP POSITION to take care of the LEGAL questions, right? Yeah, totally out of scope and anyways, **** customers.. Things that are not sales are out of scope for the VP of Sales, yes. This should not be surprising. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
|
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
727
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:20:00 -
[111] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
There is also the fact that these private emails were shared without permission or falsified, we as players will probably never know if it was a real or fake emails setup as a way to pass blame and cover tracks.
Somer has nothing to gain by faking those details - it would only completely seal their fate with CCP. |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
364
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:21:00 -
[112] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:I never liked Somer, his site (which I never played at,) or the degenerate gamblers who made him filthy spacerich, but this was handled exceedingly poorly and pettily by CCP.
If Somer was given approval for what he did by CCP, then he shouldn't have been banned at all and CCP has acted in a despicable manner.
If Somer wasn't given approval for what he did (or if that approval was given and then later explicitly revoked,) then he deserved the same anonymous quiet ban that everybody else gets. The Somer RMTing openly clusterfuck has gone on for far too long to be resolved quietly, especially after how CCP acted last time. Justice needed to be seen to be done. CCP acted appropriately. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1577
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:22:00 -
[113] - Quote
What a satisfying week. Thanks CCP
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Marsha Mallow
1458
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:24:00 -
[114] - Quote
Mangala Solaris wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:What kind of Comrades of Stellar Meetings would we be if we didn't march in step? We've been waiting for spoon thowing competitions for ages now, make it happen Would paying Ankh to give us lessons be too much? Depends who gives permission I guess >.> If you have pictures of them dancing on a table at 4am in their underwear in some bar in Reyk, prolly best not to leak them though
Steve Ronuken wrote:The Summit's next month. Any of us flying were for completely different reasons. Proof that reddit is not to be trusted. Thank gawd for that, I clicked some of their links and aged 20 years.
It's clear there has been group effort here - and everyone involved deserves to be acknowledged. But when issues like this have popped up in the past there has been a problem with player interraction and CCP which exacerbated the raging. It hasn't been the case here, which does restore confidence, and I really don't see why we can't all chant "BECAUSE OF FALCON". Plus he cuffed Dinsdale epically, which was absolutely hilarious. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
Alli Ginthur
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:24:00 -
[115] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:AkJon Ferguson wrote:I never liked Somer, his site (which I never played at,) or the degenerate gamblers who made him filthy spacerich, but this was handled exceedingly poorly and pettily by CCP.
If Somer was given approval for what he did by CCP, then he shouldn't have been banned at all and CCP has acted in a despicable manner.
If Somer wasn't given approval for what he did (or if that approval was given and then later explicitly revoked,) then he deserved the same anonymous quiet ban that everybody else gets. The Somer RMTing openly clusterfuck has gone on for far too long to be resolved quietly, especially after how CCP acted last time. Justice needed to be seen to be done. CCP acted appropriately.
The mob needed to see the execution publicly for everyone to be appeased.
The whole E1 debacle ended with a anonymous quiet ban. This should have happened here also. But what's done is done. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1227
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:24:00 -
[116] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask."
Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner? I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Denidil
Cascade Crest
637
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:25:00 -
[117] - Quote
I would like to thank Falcon (who has been loosing sleep related to this!) and the rest of CCP for being so up front and transparent with the players on this issue.
I would also like to point and laugh at Somer... dude you had a freaking GOOD THING .. a pile of isk i could never dream of amassing... and you just blew it because you got greedy. Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design. |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:25:00 -
[118] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:In the handbook of GÇ£How Not to Get Permabanned,GÇ¥ not publishing private communications between you and the VP of global sales is on page one. Classic novice mistake. So Mr. Goon-CSM, just out of curiosity, how would you have reacted if your account got suspended and everything was shut down without any notification? I see it as an act of desperation, since they apparently had an OK from a VP position. I suppose that word means nothing. Btw, if you want to be official about it - do you see any disclaimer in those statements? I know we use them in our company. This is still a fault of CCPs lack of internal communication and you are taking it out on a player. Good job. My trust in CCP has dropped to zero and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this is an outrage.
It's funny you ask that, as this exact situation actually did happen to a goon CSM. His account was suspended temporarily due to reasons, and he then aided CCP in their investigation, cooperated, and after about a month, his account was restored.
Had he instead started blasting internal emails, I expect he'd have been banned too. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
729
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:25:00 -
[119] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:AkJon Ferguson wrote:I never liked Somer, his site (which I never played at,) or the degenerate gamblers who made him filthy spacerich, but this was handled exceedingly poorly and pettily by CCP.
If Somer was given approval for what he did by CCP, then he shouldn't have been banned at all and CCP has acted in a despicable manner.
If Somer wasn't given approval for what he did (or if that approval was given and then later explicitly revoked,) then he deserved the same anonymous quiet ban that everybody else gets. The Somer RMTing openly clusterfuck has gone on for far too long to be resolved quietly, especially after how CCP acted last time. Justice needed to be seen to be done. CCP acted appropriately.
To be frank CCP has had long enough to see what Somer is doing and deal with it quietly - given the level of integration with ads and promotions, etc. there is no way they didn't know what was going on and have pretty much given both tacit and actual approval, I'm not entirely comfortable with them then turning around and banning Somer now it smacks of appeasement of the baying mob. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2800
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:26:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: However, SOMER Blink has offered to reimburse ISK to players as part of their closure....
yeah but they are banned. So how should this reinbursement work now? Or are they about to be banned once they are done? eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
|
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
35
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
dexington wrote: Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?
That's fine, since Goons like TMC and dont whine about possible RMTing on the forums. I'm sure at least 75% of CSM approves. Welcome to Goons-Online |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:28:00 -
[122] - Quote
dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?
Gotta remember CCP doesn't care about fair. If Somerset deserved a perma ban so does TMC Siggy Killboards Dotlan etc. And that part isn't even the most obviously point to ban them all they play eve have eve accounts and are a business. That is clear as DAY in the EULA. ban them all or none at all stop treating this as a religious all you can eat buffet and choosing some rules to enforce on some people all or nothing PERIOD |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11047
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:29:00 -
[123] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: However, SOMER Blink has offered to reimburse ISK to players as part of their closure....
yeah but they are banned. So how should this reinbursement work now? Or are they about to be banned once they are done?
yeah dude there was one person in somerblink handling all of those payouts within 5 minutes 24/7 Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
35
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:29:00 -
[124] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
It's funny you ask that, as this exact situation actually did happen to a goon CSM [..] and after about a month, his account was restored.
I'm not surprised one bit. |
Blobskillz McBlub
Manson Family Advent of Fate
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:29:00 -
[125] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:Blobskillz McBlub wrote: yes because the ******* sales department has **** all to do with legal questions. Get this into your head it's a good lesson for your life when dealing with corporations.
you got legal questions?
WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT
Oh, I see - so CCP has nothing to do with CCP. I suppose it was too much to expect from a VP POSITION to take care of the LEGAL questions, right? Yeah, totally out of scope and anyways, **** customers..
yes guess what the sales department does when they have concerns about legal questions. they ask the legal department for confirmation and dont just wing it. and a VP position doesnt mean ****. All the VP is is the stand-in for the guy in charge. And even the boss of the sales department would have no clue about legal questions. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4404
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:29:00 -
[126] - Quote
The execution of a public figure will always be public by the nature of the person in question. There is no dealing quietly with it. Someone would have made it public on some channel. So using the official channels allows CCP to resolve this in a orderly fashion and contain any squealing hordes preemptively. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Nick Moretti
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:30:00 -
[127] - Quote
I'm still relatively new to the game (less than 1 year) and it amazes me that something like this apparently happened before with Somer Blink and no real punishment was given? Just glad to see no special treatment with the way this most recent issue was handled. Just straight up ToS & EULA violations and a fair consequence. |
Mangala Solaris
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1103
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:30:00 -
[128] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: However, SOMER Blink has offered to reimburse ISK to players as part of their closure....
yeah but they are banned. So how should this reinbursement work now? Or are they about to be banned once they are done?
Somerblinks funds may not be necessarily held on accts or in places only Somerset can access. There is a staff for the site that no doubt can pay such sums out of corporate assets or what have you, RvB Ganked: EVE's Number One Public Roam |
Anya Klibor
Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n
766
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:30:00 -
[129] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:So as to appease the people accusing sites like CrossignZebras.com, EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. as well as tossing in EVE focused YouTube channels.
Is the promotion of using an Amazon referral link to buy PLEX, which would give a small percentage based kickback to the referrer a violation of any of CCP's policies? For example, I run the YouTube channel YouTube.com/UbaStij and after doing a video on say "How To Align Like A Pro" I mention there is an Amazon link in the description which leads to Amazon's store to buy a PLEX. I state "buying a PLEX through this Amazon link will help keep me operating this service for you the consumer." Is that permitted?
What if I operated the channel with several underlings who were compensated for their contributions in ISK and not through real money? Is it still permitted to promote purchasing through our Amazon referral link to maintain our overhead costs?
I know this has been answered previously, but some people make the assumption that doing so is no different than the scheme Somer Blink tried last year and this time around and I'd like to have CCP's stance. CSM can weigh in if they want but considering they aren't actually the policy makers it's not going to win people over in my assumption. Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.
You are all types of dumb. |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
251
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:30:00 -
[130] - Quote
I love the weaselly lawyer-speak in the OP:
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP. |
|
Lae Allier
Disturbed Creations Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:30:00 -
[131] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Somer however, were offering ISK credits last year and then attempting to do the same through a PLEX buyback program. They aren't comparable like you're attempting to portray.
Sorry but the companys you just mentioned are run as a business model and make real money out of it so that too is against CCP rules so I want to see the owners banned publicly as well, as it states
- Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.
All of the formentioned "companys" recieve real money as a result of EVE Online. I will be pursuing this further ! |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1400
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:31:00 -
[132] - Quote
Finally CCP did something. Cry more please, maybe you guys get a Ishukone Watch Scorpion. The Tears Must Flow |
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
841
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:31:00 -
[133] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:dexington wrote: Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?
That's fine, since Goons like TMC and dont whine about possible RMTing on the forums. I'm sure at least 75% of CSM approves. Welcome to Goons-Online
Welcome to Gewn Eden, amirite? Follow me on twitter |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
187
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:32:00 -
[134] - Quote
dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?
Yes they do pay their EVE writers in ISK. This falls in line with CCP's policy pertaining to paying in-game ISK for EVE content such as art, signatures, videos etc. The policy doesn't allow for writers to be paid for non-EVE related work such as writing an article on The Witcher 3 or Elite Dangerous. Nor does it permit the
They don't provide any incentive to the consumer, i.e. the reader, to use their referral links, read their site etc. outside of aiming to provide "higher quality content" (their words). The ad revenue earned from the service they provide, for free, is no different than zKillboard/EVE-Kill putting ads on their site. It's no different than an EVE player making an EVE video and monetizing it on YouTube to earn real money. Savvy? LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
195
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:33:00 -
[135] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:I love the weaselly lawyer-speak in the OP:
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP.
Don't talk sense please. This is a self congratulary circle jerk after all. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23979
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:35:00 -
[136] - Quote
dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner? There is no quid-pro-quo for giving them cash and receiving ISK (or vice versa), no. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
606
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:35:00 -
[137] - Quote
Seems like my hangar of uniques has received a massive skyrocket in value today! Ty CCP |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11047
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:37:00 -
[138] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:I love the weaselly lawyer-speak in the OP:
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP.
if you didn't quote it out of context for the sake of slinging mud you'd be entirely wrong Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Zahara Cody
Imperial Corrections Service.
127
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:37:00 -
[139] - Quote
How much are we talking was just banned here? Tribal Tempest and Imp geddon. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
190
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:38:00 -
[140] - Quote
Lae Allier wrote:Sorry but the companys you just mentioned are run as a business model and make real money out of it so that too is against CCP rules so I want to see the owners banned publicly as well, as it states
- Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.
All of the formentioned "companys" recieve real money as a result of EVE Online. I will be pursuing this further !
Cool, that's probably the best thing to do if you believe it's violating the EULA. Be sure to speak eloquently and clearly about the issues rather than making claims without any basis on facts or reality. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
305
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:39:00 -
[141] - Quote
Now that this crisis is done and dealt with on to the next one, can wait to see what drama will be unveiled come the next summer !
Also well done CSM and community team for handling this in a quick and decisive manner. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:39:00 -
[142] - Quote
Lae Allier wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Somer however, were offering ISK credits last year and then attempting to do the same through a PLEX buyback program. They aren't comparable like you're attempting to portray. Sorry but the companys you just mentioned are run as a business model and make real money out of it so that too is against CCP rules so I want to see the owners banned publicly as well, as it states - Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. All of the formentioned "companys" recieve real money as a result of EVE Online. I will be pursuing this further !
100% right
So Falcon go and dismantle the games community they are in violation of the EULA, you said it yourself you want the rules to be fair and enforced so put your money where your mouth is! |
Clark Ostus
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:40:00 -
[143] - Quote
Taken from CCP Falcons OP,
In response, the founder published private communications from CCP without authorization. This violates our EULA and Terms of Service (see paragraph 18 of our Terms of Service).
I could be understanding this wrong, but if part of the reason Somer was banned, was due to releasing private convos between a member of CCP and Somer himself, why has the person somer spoke to not said a word, as far as I can read CCP have not said anywhere the emails are fake/forged, just released without permission, which tends to make me believe somer actually had permission from someone somewhere in CCP. It seems that goons complained to GOONSM, who went to CCP and CCP caved in under pressure. |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
321
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:41:00 -
[144] - Quote
Excellent decision guys. Where was this level of competence and transparency when you dealt with the Erotica 1 issue?
With Somer gone and Blink dead I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people left in charge run off with the ISK. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:42:00 -
[145] - Quote
Mangala Solaris wrote:Bienator II wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: However, SOMER Blink has offered to reimburse ISK to players as part of their closure....
yeah but they are banned. So how should this reinbursement work now? Or are they about to be banned once they are done? Somerblinks funds may not be necessarily held on accts or in places only Somerset can access. There is a staff for the site that no doubt can pay such sums out of corporate assets or what have you,
Heh. In before they run off with the loot :P
I cannot imagine CCP intervening on such a level and doing it themselves, that would set all sorts of precedents, but it remains an interesting question.
It would be nice if CCP were able to shed light on this. Then again, EVE is a cold and dark place by design. So we'll see. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2800
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:42:00 -
[146] - Quote
Mangala Solaris wrote:Bienator II wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: However, SOMER Blink has offered to reimburse ISK to players as part of their closure....
yeah but they are banned. So how should this reinbursement work now? Or are they about to be banned once they are done? Somerblinks funds may not be necessarily held on accts or in places only Somerset can access. There is a staff for the site that no doubt can pay such sums out of corporate assets or what have you,
its a little bit like saying the janitor will reinburse you for canceled service X. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23980
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:42:00 -
[147] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:So Falcon go and dismantle the games community they are in violation of the EULA, you said it yourself you want the rules to be fair and enforced so put your money where your mouth is! Just one problem: they are not in violation of the EULA and the rules are being applied and enforced fairly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1227
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:42:00 -
[148] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner? Yes they do pay their EVE writers in ISK. This falls in line with CCP's policy pertaining to paying in-game ISK for EVE content such as art, signatures, videos etc. The policy doesn't allow for writers to be paid for non-EVE related work such as writing an article on The Witcher 3 or Elite Dangerous
TMC is not a eve only website, and according to the chat logs "leaked" on reddit eve players play other games which makes it possible to find write for non eve content within the eve community. TMC is no a community site, it's a professional gaming site, with the twist it pays the writers in isk. We are not talk about non profit work, the owner is clearly paying people isk to write articles, to make money of ads...
It might not be as direct RMT as what somer was doing, but in the end it's RMT. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Lae Allier
Disturbed Creations Northern Associates.
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:43:00 -
[149] - Quote
well I have just read through the whole posts for the past 2 days, I am still waiting to see proof of RMT'ing when you look at the facts it covers the same issues, if you make real money from EVE in whatever form you are breaking thier rules and should be punished.
once again read the rules
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:44:00 -
[150] - Quote
Clark Ostus wrote:Taken from CCP Falcons OP,
In response, the founder published private communications from CCP without authorization. This violates our EULA and Terms of Service (see paragraph 18 of our Terms of Service).
I could be understanding this wrong, but if part of the reason Somer was banned, was due to releasing private convos between a member of CCP and Somer himself, why has the person somer spoke to not said a word, as far as I can read CCP have not said anywhere the emails are fake/forged, just released without permission, which tends to make me believe somer actually had permission from someone somewhere in CCP. It seems that goons complained to GOONSM, who went to CCP and CCP caved in under pressure.
I don't have the links handy, I'm sure someone will dig them up at some point, but he had the correspondence and the proposal as text documents available on his domain. Probably not a smart move, since that's pretty much what provided CCP with the means to take the ToS / EULA angle to wrap the Somer case in this situation up.
|
|
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
305
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:44:00 -
[151] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Excellent decision guys. Where was this level of competence and transparency when you dealt with the Erotica 1 issue?
With Somer gone and Blink dead I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people left in charge run off with the ISK.
Well that or they make up a new casino and keep in cashing the cows. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:44:00 -
[152] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:So Falcon go and dismantle the games community they are in violation of the EULA, you said it yourself you want the rules to be fair and enforced so put your money where your mouth is! Just one problem: they are not in violation of the EULA and the rules are being applied and enforced fairly.
Are you brain damaged?
EULA YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS! WTF do you think killboards siggy TMC etc are? |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:44:00 -
[153] - Quote
Clark Ostus wrote:as far as I can read CCP have not said anywhere the emails are fake/forged, just released without permission, which tends to make me believe somer actually had permission from someone somewhere in CCP. Yes, we already established they had permission from someone (or, to be precise, the VP of Sales) to run a particular promotion. They then ran a different promotion. They got then banned for various reasons, most or all of which are listed in the OP. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11051
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:46:00 -
[154] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:EULA YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS!
i didn't know the EULA prohibited 90% of people with employment from playing eve Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Kali Izia
GoomWaffe Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:47:00 -
[155] - Quote
dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner? Yes they do pay their EVE writers in ISK. This falls in line with CCP's policy pertaining to paying in-game ISK for EVE content such as art, signatures, videos etc. The policy doesn't allow for writers to be paid for non-EVE related work such as writing an article on The Witcher 3 or Elite Dangerous TMC is not a eve only website, and according to the chat logs "leaked" on reddit eve players play other games which makes it possible to find write for non eve content within the eve community. TMC is no a community site, it's a professional gaming site, with the twist it pays the writers in isk. We are not talk about non profit work, the owner is clear paying people isk to write articles, to make money of ads... It might not be as direct RMT as what somer was doing, but on the end it's RMT. TMC was investigated after the last Somer incident. CCP asked them to make changes so they only pay ISK for EVE content, which is allowed per the rules. Ads on EVE related websites are also allowed, just like adsense is allowed on youtube videos/streams/etc.
Though if you have evidence that they're involved in RMT, please do send it to CCP. |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:47:00 -
[156] - Quote
To those of you who keep insisted that "this should have been handled quietly," I'm not sure what you expect. Had Somer himself handled this with professionalism instead of being deliberately deceitful and then going dramatically public with confidential exchanges, I have no doubt that CCP would have respected that and handled it quietly with all due respect.
If you're suggesting that CCP should have allowed Somer to do long term damage to CCP's reputation out of consideration for his feelings, you might, just possibly, be missing the broader context here.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11246
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:47:00 -
[157] - Quote
dexington wrote:TMC is not a eve only website, and according to the chat logs "leaked" on reddit eve players play other games which makes it possible to find write for non eve content within the eve community. TMC is no a community site, it's a professional gaming site, with the twist it pays the writers in isk. Only the EVE writers are paid in ISK.
dexington wrote:We are not talk about non profit work, the owner is clearly paying people isk to write articles Which is allowed, as has been stated several times by devs.
dexington wrote:to make money of ads... Which is allowed.
dexington wrote:It might not be as direct RMT as what somer was doing, but in the end it's RMT. No it isn't. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:48:00 -
[158] - Quote
Lae Allier wrote:well I have just read through the whole posts for the past 2 days, I am still waiting to see proof of RMT'ing when you look at the facts it covers the same issues, if you make real money from EVE in whatever form you are breaking thier rules and should be punished.
once again read the rules
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. If you actually believe that somebody is violating the EULA, send an email to [email protected] Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Hitman 001
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:48:00 -
[159] - Quote
at least you gave em free expensive scorpion worthless hulls for doing a so god job right. :=) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23980
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:48:00 -
[160] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Are you brain damaged? Do you have an actual argument rather than abuse?
Quote:YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS! WTF do you think killboards siggy TMC etc are? This is incorrect.
Killboards, signature creations, and TMC are EVE-related services, which are the only things allowed to use ISK as a payment method for contributors. Like Somer, they are not allowed to pay ISK in exchange for cash (or vice versa), but unlike Somer they made sure to abide by that rule. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
Ahshalon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:49:00 -
[161] - Quote
ok the torch and pitchfork holders have gotten erotica1 and somer. now.. who is next.... *points at markee dragon* "OMG LOOK THE DEVIL!!!!"
*facepalms so hard it can be heard across the universe*
get over yourselves people. it's a game, it's supposed to be fun, if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. but don't kill other peoples fun. it seems some are just dead set on ruining the game for those who actually enjoy the meta. and i fear we have just given cause for more and more whiners to kill more and more out of game stuff.... I'm sure i will write a song about it, just give me a few days.
*throws hands in the air and walks around in a circle and sits back down cuz... has no where to go* |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:50:00 -
[162] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Clark Ostus wrote:as far as I can read CCP have not said anywhere the emails are fake/forged, just released without permission, which tends to make me believe somer actually had permission from someone somewhere in CCP. Yes, we already established they had permission from someone (or, to be precise, the VP of Sales) to run a particular promotion. They then ran a different promotion. They got then banned for various reasons, most or all of which are listed in the OP.
Enaris lets be real. Did she break the EULA for posting the emails and such? Yes. Are they really banning her for that? No lets not be delusional they went on a RMT witch hunt and pick a excuse to take her down. I know it and you know it and everyone who isn't on the CSM/CCP junk or goons **** knows it to. And if it was a legit RMT which it wasn't than their should be consequences internally at CCP for this mess. Not to mention if we want to be fair and enforce the eula equally than the other eve businesses need the bane hammer too. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:50:00 -
[163] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Tippia wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:So Falcon go and dismantle the games community they are in violation of the EULA, you said it yourself you want the rules to be fair and enforced so put your money where your mouth is! Just one problem: they are not in violation of the EULA and the rules are being applied and enforced fairly. Are you brain damaged? EULA YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS! WTF do you think killboards siggy TMC etc are?
No, accounts are restricted to individual and personal use. That's something different, it may seem a subtle difference, but it does have meaning.
CCP has no business type accounts. Just personal ones. And those cannot do anything other than what is allowed as per relevant agreements.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20259
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Tippia wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:So Falcon go and dismantle the games community they are in violation of the EULA, you said it yourself you want the rules to be fair and enforced so put your money where your mouth is! Just one problem: they are not in violation of the EULA and the rules are being applied and enforced fairly. Are you brain damaged? EULA YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS! WTF do you think killboards siggy TMC etc are? So report them to CCP for breach of the EULA. Put up or shut up.
Whether CCP agree with you or not is a completely different matter.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
194
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:51:00 -
[165] - Quote
dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner? Yes they do pay their EVE writers in ISK. This falls in line with CCP's policy pertaining to paying in-game ISK for EVE content such as art, signatures, videos etc. The policy doesn't allow for writers to be paid for non-EVE related work such as writing an article on The Witcher 3 or Elite Dangerous TMC is not a eve only website, and according to the chat logs "leaked" on reddit eve players play other games which makes it possible to find write for non eve content within the eve community. TMC is no a community site, it's a professional gaming site, with the twist it pays the writers in isk. We are not talk about non profit work, the owner is clearly paying people isk to write articles, to make money of ads... It might not be as direct RMT as what somer was doing, but in the end it's RMT.
As a former writer for TheMittani.com (I'm UbaStij in the leaked logs) you're incorrect. After the SomerBlink incident last year, CCP spoke to sites like TMC etc. and stated the guidelines and rules they were to abide by. This also was done for sites like EVE-Bet.com and others. These have been followed out and thus far there is no indication the policies were violated.
Yes, TMC writes about other non-EVE games but contributors aren't paid EVE ISK for that work. The EVE articles and non-EVE articles are, by CCP's Policy and other guidelines set up outside of CCP, separated in how they're compensated for due to the stated reasons. Contrary to popular belief, TMC doesn't make all that much money beyond covering server costs and other overhead expenses. If you were to say, and provide evidence, of TMC paying their writers EVE ISK in-game for writing about non-EVE content you would be correct in saying they are breaking the policy CCP enforces upon them. Until then, it's speculation and hearsay plain and simple. As I previously stated, the fact TMC runs ads on its site is no different than me running ads on my YouTube channel which features EVE video content. Both are permitted per CCP and aren't deemed as RMT schemes etc. Again, if you feel this is a violation of CCP's EULA/TOS with the user, contact CCP's support or ask CCP Falcon/CCP Manifest to comment on it publicly to put your concerns to rest. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:52:00 -
[166] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:To those of you who keep insisted that "this should have been handled quietly," I'm not sure what you expect. Had Somer himself handled this with professionalism instead of being deliberately deceitful and then going dramatically public with confidential exchanges, I have no doubt that CCP would have respected that and handled it quietly with all due respect.
If you're suggesting that CCP should have allowed Somer to do long term damage to CCP's reputation out of consideration for his feelings, you might, just possibly, be missing the broader context here.
What damage you CCP **** sucking tool? Goonswarm has cause MASSIVE damage to this game on a community level and business level. But you haven't broken ToS so its okay. What damage did Somer do to the business or the game? NOTHING and even falcon hints Somer WASNT banned for RMT so get your head out of CCP's and your own ass |
Doris Dents
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
396
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:52:00 -
[167] - Quote
You've made the right call in the interests of consistency and fair play, well done CCP! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11246
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:53:00 -
[168] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:And if it was a legit RMT which it wasn't Which it was.
Brahan Seer wrote:than their should be consequences internally at CCP for this mess. There might be. We'll never know, nor should we.
Brahan Seer wrote:Not to mention if we want to be fair and enforce the eula equally than the other eve businesses need the bane hammer too. What other EVE businesses? Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Doris Dents
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
396
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:53:00 -
[169] - Quote
You've made the right call in the interests of consistency and fair play, well done CCP! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23980
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:53:00 -
[170] - Quote
Ahshalon wrote:ok the torch and pitchfork holders have gotten erotica1 and somer. Not really, no. Erotica may have been an edge case, especially since none of the people actually involved thought anything bad had been done, but Somer is not a victim of torches and ptchforks GÇö he's a victim of not being able to stay away from RMT.
Brahan Seer wrote:Enaris lets be real. Did she break the EULA for posting the emails and such? Yes. Are they really banning her for that? Yes, that and a couple of other things.
Quote:And if it was a legit RMT which it wasn't That's mainly because no RMT is ever legit GÇö the whole point of RMT is that it is illegitimate, after all. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
149
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:54:00 -
[171] - Quote
dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?
And not only is the paying of isk something that CCP explicitly allows for EVE-related services, but at no point is real-world cash being exchanged for in-game goods or services. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15741
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:57:00 -
[172] - Quote
WTB Gambling module in CQ
...put it on the TV, even! President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Lae Allier
Disturbed Creations Northern Associates.
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:58:00 -
[173] - Quote
Just to clarify my point - The other websites that run at the moment recieve Real money from traffic that is generated from EVE in turn the owner gets paid $ he then buys someone a plex for real money becuase of a player.
So :-
1. Player generates traffic to a site in which the owner gets money. 2. Then some of that money is turned into PLEX - Owner must have an account to purchase as well as keeping extra money. 3. Player recieves PLEX
Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23981
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:58:00 -
[174] - Quote
Lae Allier wrote:Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness That is not a direct violation of the EULA, no. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 20:59:00 -
[175] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner? And not only is the paying of isk something that CCP explicitly allows for EVE-related services, but at no point is real-world cash being exchanged for in-game goods or services.
Even if thats okay the EULA clearly states you cant have a character or play eve for business purposes. That can't get any clearer which makes all those groups guilty of breaking the EULA. Do you not agree with that premise? (not advocating it but am I wrong)? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11247
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:00:00 -
[176] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:What damage you CCP **** sucking tool? Goonswarm has cause MASSIVE damage to this game on a community level and business level. What makes you think CCP would tolerate a group that causes "MASSIVE damage to this game on a community level and business level"?
Brahan Seer wrote:But you haven't broken ToS so its okay. Many members of ours have, on many occasions. I can't think of a single one that wasn't punished accordingly.
Brahan Seer wrote:What damage did Somer do to the business or the game? NOTHING Can you prove that? Do you have CCP's data on the New Eden economy, PLEX sales, and Somer's activities, and the expertise to analyze Somer's impact on CCP's business or the game? No. CCP does.
Brahan Seer wrote:and even falcon hints Somer WASNT banned for RMT so get your head out of CCP's and your own ass No he didn't. He simply refused to comment on it. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23981
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:00:00 -
[177] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Even if thats okay the EULA clearly states you cant have a character or play eve for business purposes. GǪand none of the sites in question are doing that. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:01:00 -
[178] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lae Allier wrote:Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness That is not a direct violation of the EULA, no.
Oh so Somers supposed RMT loophole wasn't kosher but that is? Like come on!! |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:01:00 -
[179] - Quote
Ahshalon wrote:ok the torch and pitchfork holders have gotten erotica1 and somer. now.. who is next.... *points at markee dragon* "OMG LOOK THE DEVIL!!!!" i hope it's you so i don't have to read your drivel anymore
Brahan Seer wrote:And if it was a legit RMT which it wasn't Yes, of course it wasn't legit RMT. RMT can't be legit. Outside of buying GTCs from authorized resellers, you can't have IRL money change hands in exchange for ingame services. Ever. But Somer directly combined "pay me IRL money (via this affiliate link) and I'll give you ISK in return". That's cut-and-dry RMT, and I wasn't aware until now that disallowing RMT was a point of contention within the player base.
Brahan Seer wrote:What damage you CCP **** sucking tool? Goonswarm has cause MASSIVE damage to this game on a community level and business level. But you haven't broken ToS so its okay. What damage did Somer do to the business or the game? NOTHING and even falcon hints Somer WASNT banned for RMT so get your head out of CCP's and your own ass you may want to take a nap, you're melting down. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Ahshalon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:02:00 -
[180] - Quote
while i get the point many of you are making, please please please don't get any more sites shut down just to prove a point. while i agree that blink was nifty, and am sad to see it go, don't make the mess bigger, don't use it as an excuse to go after more stuff. for the love of 10isk please just stop. plus the rmt wasn't even why the banhammer was summoned, it was for posting private emails without written consent. which is a GINORMOUS no no.
still the proper counter to pitchforks and torches in NOT more pitchforks and torches. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11051
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:02:00 -
[181] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Tippia wrote:Lae Allier wrote:Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness That is not a direct violation of the EULA, no. Oh so Somers supposed RMT loophole wasn't kosher but that is? Like come on!!
try to find the subtle difference in the chain of custody of ISK and money in what somer was doing and what websites like TMC EN24 etc. do
you will find the answer there Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Drealar
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
150
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:02:00 -
[182] - Quote
posting |
Karra Masamune
Intelligence Operation NetCorp Khaos Legion
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:03:00 -
[183] - Quote
So basically only thing CCP could prove is that SOMERblink leaked chat logs with Lisa, and they took that as reason to ban him. It looks like he would have a walk out of jail card if it weren't for that as apparently CCP couldn't prove any RMT or any other major violation of EULA.
Never the less I still like end result regarding SOMERblink and good job on that. I don't like the fact that noting is done regarding Markee Dragon I assume that is to be expected as there is no proof RMT. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11051
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:03:00 -
[184] - Quote
and it's not even explicitly stated in the OP whether somer was engaging in that, rather that he acted in bad faith Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
194
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:03:00 -
[185] - Quote
Lae Allier wrote:Just to clarify my point - The other websites that run at the moment recieve Real money from traffic that is generated from EVE in turn the owner gets paid $ he then buys someone a plex for real money becuase of a player.
So :-
1. Player generates traffic to a site in which the owner gets money. 2. Then some of that money is turned into PLEX - Owner must have an account to purchase as well as keeping extra money. 3. Player recieves PLEX
Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness
You seem to believe you are infallibly correct, so prove it to CCP that sites running ads and compensating contributors with in-game ISK are a violation of EULA to them. Argue it and see what CCP says. Pretty simple really. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Drealar
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
150
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:03:00 -
[186] - Quote
double posting |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23981
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:04:00 -
[187] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Oh so Somers supposed RMT loophole wasn't kosher but that is? Like come on!! Somer's supposed RMT loophole was still RMT and wasn't a loophole, so of course it wasn't kosher.
Running a fansite that generates income through ad revenue or referral kickbacks is not RMT because there is no in-game component to that income generation. Thus, it's kosher. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Drealar
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
150
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:04:00 -
[188] - Quote
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11247
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:04:00 -
[189] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Even if thats okay the EULA clearly states you cant have a character or play eve for business purposes. Correct, however...
Brahan Seer wrote:That can't get any clearer which makes all those groups guilty of breaking the EULA. Not correct. All of those groups are separate from the account and character. The most TMC is guilty of is using name recognition, but that's not the same thing as using "The Mittani", the character, for business purposes. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20259
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:04:00 -
[190] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:What damage you CCP **** sucking tool? I see a banhammer or a forum gag in your future.
Quote:Goonswarm has cause MASSIVE damage to this game on a community level and business level. But you haven't broken ToS so its okay. Examples please.
Quote:What damage did Somer do to the business or the game? NOTHING and even falcon hints Somer WASNT banned for RMT Using obfuscated methods to potentially monetise CCPs intellectual poicy in an EULA breaking way probably counts as damaging to the game and CCP Falcon hinted at no such thing, he said that they (CCP) wouldn't comment on whether or not RMT actually happened
Quote:so get your head out of CCP's and your own ass Grow up, and try to be civil.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
|
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:04:00 -
[191] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:What damage you CCP **** sucking tool? Goonswarm has cause MASSIVE damage to this game on a community level and business level. What makes you think CCP would tolerate a group that causes "MASSIVE damage to this game on a community level and business level"? Brahan Seer wrote:But you haven't broken ToS so its okay. Many members of ours have, on many occasions. I can't think of a single one that wasn't punished accordingly. Brahan Seer wrote:What damage did Somer do to the business or the game? NOTHING Can you prove that? Do you have CCP's data on the New Eden economy, PLEX sales, and Somer's activities, and the expertise to analyze Somer's impact on CCP's business or the game? No. CCP does. Brahan Seer wrote:and even falcon hints Somer WASNT banned for RMT so get your head out of CCP's and your own ass No he didn't. He simply refused to comment on it.
And you continue to have a closed mind and assume somer was destructive. i pose the same questions back to you on your wayward opinion. Goons havent been punished. How many players quit because of various goon scams? Do i even bring up Bob? How many people quit because goons can't play fairly? I understand espionage is a part of the game but on multiple occasions is has gone to far that pissed people off to such an extreme they quit. That hurts the community and CCP's wallet at its core. Now tell me Im wrong and tell me who has quit because of somer? case closed period |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:04:00 -
[192] - Quote
Karra Masamune wrote:as apparently CCP couldn't prove any RMT or any other major violation of EULA. except that's not what they said Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11053
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:07:00 -
[193] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:And you continue to have a closed mind and assume somer was destructive. i pose the same questions back to you on your wayward opinion. Goons havent been punished. How many players quit because of various goon scams? Do i even bring up Bob? How many people quit because goons can't play fairly? I understand espionage is a part of the game but on multiple occasions is has gone to far that pissed people off to such an extreme they quit. That hurts the community and CCP's wallet at its core. Now tell me Im wrong and tell me who has quit because of somer? case closed period
the majority of us play within the rules Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11248
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:07:00 -
[194] - Quote
Karra Masamune wrote:So basically only thing CCP could prove is that SOMERblink leaked chat logs with Lisa, and they took that as reason to ban him. It looks like he would have a walk out of jail card if it weren't for that as apparently CCP couldn't prove any RMT or any other major violation of EULA. Wrong. That is one of two violations (the other one being the use of an EVE account for business purposes) which are publicly apparent, which makes those the two violations that they will confirm. Other violations discovered as the result of internal investigation (read: RMT) are not disclosed. That doesn't mean they couldn't prove that it happened, it just means they're not going to tell us what they find. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:07:00 -
[195] - Quote
A just decision, bravo CCP, Falcon and CSM on the handling of this.
No room, no place, no tolerance for RMT, ever. |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:07:00 -
[196] - Quote
Quote:
And you continue to have a closed mind and assume somer was destructive. i pose the same questions back to you on your wayward opinion. Goons havent been punished. How many players quit because of various goon scams? Do i even bring up Bob? How many people quit because goons can't play fairly? I understand espionage is a part of the game but on multiple occasions is has gone to far that pissed people off to such an extreme they quit. That hurts the community and CCP's wallet at its core. Now tell me Im wrong and tell me who has quit because of somer? case closed period
I'm not a goon, but I raised an eyebrow there.
You expect fairness in EVE?
Nevermind ... back on topic I suppose ... |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
144
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:07:00 -
[197] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Now tell me Im wrong and tell me who has quit because of somer? case closed period What is even your point? That the rules shouldn't apply to Somer because they didn't break into somebody's house and kill their puppy? Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:07:00 -
[198] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Even if thats okay the EULA clearly states you cant have a character or play eve for business purposes. Correct, however... Brahan Seer wrote:That can't get any clearer which makes all those groups guilty of breaking the EULA. Not correct. All of those groups are separate from the account and character. The most TMC is guilty of is using name recognition, but that's not the same thing as using "The Mittani", the character, for business purposes.
I havent ever seen mittani or whatever it is so i can't speak on that. But you get my point. And to an extent sounds like you agree with the premise even if it is a dumb one cause lets face it if the people who ran killboardz came under siege for this the community would defend them tooth and nail as we need that system. |
GOB the Magician
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:08:00 -
[199] - Quote
so many tears, alas so little popcorn on my end
well done ccp! |
Amantus
Snuff Box
347
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:08:00 -
[200] - Quote
its dingles mate |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23981
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:08:00 -
[201] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:And you continue to have a closed mind and assume somer was destructive. It's not really an assumption when you look at how much trouble he caused for the CCP in their community relations. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:09:00 -
[202] - Quote
Andski wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:And you continue to have a closed mind and assume somer was destructive. i pose the same questions back to you on your wayward opinion. Goons havent been punished. How many players quit because of various goon scams? Do i even bring up Bob? How many people quit because goons can't play fairly? I understand espionage is a part of the game but on multiple occasions is has gone to far that pissed people off to such an extreme they quit. That hurts the community and CCP's wallet at its core. Now tell me Im wrong and tell me who has quit because of somer? case closed period the majority of us play within the rules
You know what your right the majority do and I shouldn't lump all of you with the few bad. The situation is just frustrating and maybe i disagree with the anti somer people the discussion has been fairly constructive. With that said will refrain from my goon attacks this isn't the place for it |
Drealar
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:09:00 -
[203] - Quote
|
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
96
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:09:00 -
[204] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:To those of you who keep insisted that "this should have been handled quietly," I'm not sure what you expect. Had Somer himself handled this with professionalism instead of being deliberately deceitful and then going dramatically public with confidential exchanges, I have no doubt that CCP would have respected that and handled it quietly with all due respect.
If you're suggesting that CCP should have allowed Somer to do long term damage to CCP's reputation out of consideration for his feelings, you might, just possibly, be missing the broader context here.
What damage you CCP **** sucking tool? Goonswarm has cause MASSIVE damage to this game on a community level and business level. But you haven't broken ToS so its okay. What damage did Somer do to the business or the game? NOTHING and even falcon hints Somer WASNT banned for RMT so get your head out of CCP's and your own ass
Your advocacy of breaking the EULA/TOS puzzles me, I should think you'd be pleased that I've not broken rules. Is perhaps my goonish aura distracting you from valid argumentation?
Flaunting EULA/TOS violations in public for all to see is bad for the community and bad for the game. Somer thought he was was too big to fail, and too important to play by the rules that bind the rest of us. But unlike certain world governments, CCP has the backbone to do what needed to be done.
The legitimacy of the rules are only as valid as the equality of the application of those rules. CCP proved today that they're willing to fairly apply these rules, and that heartens me a great deal. |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1502
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:10:00 -
[205] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:In the handbook of GÇ£How Not to Get Permabanned,GÇ¥ not publishing private communications between you and the VP of global sales is on page one. Classic novice mistake. So Mr. Goon-CSM, just out of curiosity, how would you have reacted if your account got suspended and everything was shut down without any notification? I see it as an act of desperation, since they apparently had an OK from a VP position. I suppose that word means nothing. Btw, if you want to be official about it - do you see any disclaimer in those statements? I know we use them in our company. This is still a fault of CCPs lack of internal communication and you are taking it out on a player. Good job. My trust in CCP has dropped to zero and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this is an outrage.
Except SOMER lied to the VP about their activities, so there's that. Epic Space Cat |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
305
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:10:00 -
[206] - Quote
Drealar wrote: big bunch of emoticons
I lolled tbh.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11248
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:11:00 -
[207] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:And you continue to have a closed mind and assume somer was destructive. RMT is generally destructive, yes.
Brahan Seer wrote:i pose the same questions back to you on your wayward opinion. Goons havent been punished. Oh but some have, except not for the reasons you list.
Brahan Seer wrote:How many players quit because of various goon scams? Scams aren't against the rules. Players quitting is their own decision.
Brahan Seer wrote:Do i even bring up Bob? How many people quit because goons can't play fairly? Playing unfairly is not against the rules. Players quitting is their own decision.
Brahan Seer wrote:I understand espionage is a part of the game but on multiple occasions is has gone to far that pissed people off to such an extreme they quit. That hurts the community and CCP's wallet at its core. Now tell me Im wrong and tell me who has quit because of somer? case closed period It doesn't matter who has or hasn't quit. That's not the guideline for damage, and it's not against the rules to cause players to quit the game. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
96
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:12:00 -
[208] - Quote
I clearly should have gotten this out of the way sooner: it's me, I'm the goon CSM. |
Lord Xander
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
58
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:12:00 -
[209] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:Goonswarm has cause MASSIVE damage to this game on a community level and business level. But you haven't broken ToS so its okay. Examples please. .
I like this part, Plz tell us more what we "The evil Goonies" have done to you and your corp. |
|
CCP Manifest
C C P C C P Alliance
1101
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:12:00 -
[210] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:I love the weaselly lawyer-speak in the OP:
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP.
Actually the promotion as it was enacted was not approved by us--nor was it the same as one they had discussed with us previously. That part is in the paragraph after the one you quoted.
So what you quoted above is us saying that we didn't give permission to SOMER Blink to say the non-approved promotion was approved by us.
As, one would imagine would be a thing we would do.
======== o7 CCP Manifest | Public Relations and Social Media | @ccp_manifest |
|
|
Lae Allier
Disturbed Creations Northern Associates.
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:12:00 -
[211] - Quote
to be honest by the look of the Forums, Goons run this game now, every other post is by them condoning this action, They have nearly reached the top of the food chain they are in CSM just waiting for one to become CCP then it's all downhill from there. And I won't even bother to put a petition in becuase it will just be over looked as most other things if it is not in Goonswarms favor. I have seen many people come and go from the game due to thier actions and to be honest it's disgracefull behaviour. |
Amantus
Snuff Box
347
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:12:00 -
[212] - Quote
|
Drealar
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:13:00 -
[213] - Quote
|
Clark Ostus
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:14:00 -
[215] - Quote
Lae Allier wrote:to be honest by the look of the Forums, Goons run this game now, every other post is by them condoning this action, They have nearly reached the top of the food chain they are in CSM just waiting for one to become CCP then it's all downhill from there. And I won't even bother to put a petition in becuase it will just be over looked as most other things if it is not in Goonswarms favor. I have seen many people come and go from the game due to thier actions and to be honest it's disgracefull behaviour.
I am pretty sure if you search through the forums and old videos of CCP members, you'll find some of them ARE goons already.
|
Anaphylacti
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:14:00 -
[216] - Quote
While I do think Somer crossed the RMT line with their latest promotion, CCP was a little too heavy handed on banning the initial Promotion of BLINK CREDIT for purchasing through their link.
I'm not sure about other resellers but I have had emails from Markee Dragon Promoting a raffle giveaway for Rifter models and in-game assets, "skinned Iteron, etc..", for buying gtc off them. Considering that Somer Blink was giving CREDIT for their own service for purchasing GTC through their link, I fail to see how it differs from Markees Raffle and in-game asset gifts. No actual in-game assets were being given for the purchase.
Had Somer Blink used a different method of currency instead of calling their credit ISK and perhaps calling it Blink Bucks or something it probably wouldn't have been brought up.
Is their any in-depth post like this one that refers to that event and why that promotion was banned? |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
144
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:14:00 -
[217] - Quote
Clark Ostus wrote:I am pretty sure if you search through the forums and old videos of CCP members, you'll find some of them ARE goons already.
nah they all went to riot Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11248
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:14:00 -
[218] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:I havent ever seen mittani or whatever it is so i can't speak on that. But you get my point. And to an extent sounds like you agree with the premise even if it is a dumb one cause lets face it if the people who ran killboardz came under siege for this the community would defend them tooth and nail as we need that system. I agree that anyone who uses EVE accounts for business purposes should be punished accordingly.
None of your examples demonstrate people who use EVE accounts for business purposes. You're merely pointing to a bunch of irrelevant stuff (e.g. sigs) and people with EVE accounts who also have EVE related businesses, which are separate. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:15:00 -
[219] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Even if thats okay the EULA clearly states you cant have a character or play eve for business purposes. That can't get any clearer which makes all those groups guilty of breaking the EULA. Do you not agree with that premise? (not advocating it but am I wrong)? So you're saying that the leader of Goonswarm is only playing the game for business purposes? Really?
At no point did I ever say that |
Riela Tanal
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:15:00 -
[220] - Quote
I do not see this in your FAQ. Falcon, does this have any impact on the prizes that SOMER Blink donated for Theomachy? |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20261
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:15:00 -
[221] - Quote
Lae Allier wrote:to be honest by the look of the Forums, Goons run this game now, every other post is by them condoning this action, They have nearly reached the top of the food chain they are in CSM just waiting for one to become CCP then it's all downhill from there. And I won't even bother to put a petition in becuase it will just be over looked as most other things if it is not in Goonswarms favor. I have seen many people come and go from the game due to thier actions and to be honest it's disgracefull behaviour. You're late to the party dear.
CCP have employed former members of GSF in the past, just as they have employed players from other alliances and corps.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Lord Xander
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
58
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:18:00 -
[222] - Quote
|
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
709
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:18:00 -
[224] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:I love the weaselly lawyer-speak in the OP:
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP.
That happens often in the business world. Endorsements are very, very delicate to deal with and more often turn out to have been ticking bombs. CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
199
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:19:00 -
[225] - Quote
Anaphylacti wrote:While I do think Somer crossed the RMT line with their latest promotion, CCP was a little too heavy handed on banning the initial Promotion of BLINK CREDIT for purchasing through their link.
I'm not sure about other resellers but I have had emails from Markee Dragon Promoting a raffle giveaway for Rifter models and in-game assets, "skinned Iteron, etc..", for buying gtc off them. Considering that Somer Blink was giving CREDIT for their own service for purchasing GTC through their link, I fail to see how it differs from Markees Raffle and in-game asset gifts. No actual in-game assets were being given for the purchase.
Had Somer Blink used a different method of currency instead of calling their credit ISK and perhaps calling it Blink Bucks or something it probably wouldn't have been brought up.
Is their any in-depth post like this one that refers to that event and why that promotion was banned?
Shut up Ana. <3
Edit - Real talk:
The reason the "credit through buying through our GTC link" was shot down was due to how it could be used to get in-game goods over someone in an unfair way.
The raffles/skinned ships are, as far as I can tell, given to the GTC reseller to do as they want. I'm not sure of what the contract says in how they can use them but they'd be utterly idiotic to abuse that system as they'd lose their partnership with CCP. That is a different thing than what Somer were trying to do. Markee are an authorized seller, Somer aren't that's also a difference that needs to be understood. Just because Somer had an agreement to set up a referral link with Markee Dragon (which is no different than using an Amazon referral link) it doesn't make Somer a CCP Authorized PLEX/GTC seller. It's essentially just a way for Markeet/Amazon/ShatteredCrystals etc. to help spread their market share without much cost involved. There's a small kickback but again, it doesn't mean that CCP are giving Somer or whomever the same priveleges they give to Amazon/Markee/etc. by proxy. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Drealar
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
154
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:19:00 -
[226] - Quote
|
Bobmon
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
76
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:20:00 -
[228] - Quote
Bye Bye to my asumed 30tril worth of Unique ships, What a way to be removed from a game! Chief Editor of Evenews24.com GÖ¢GÖ¢ #Third Party And #Loan Service GÖ¢GÖ¢ @BobmonEve |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5853
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:20:00 -
[229] - Quote
It always makes me wonder when a thread becomes a goonwave of massive proportions.
If I were the tinfoil hat type, I'd be questioning the motives behind this. What are they trying to cover for, deflect from, justify, etc.
But I'm not a tinfoil hatter so...whatever. I'll just say that as murky as the OP is, CCP did the right thing. But it would be in their best interest to carefully look into the rest of the stuff while the topic is hot and either disavow the accusations against other sites or continue banning, as the case may be.
It's not the time to ignore or bury what's being asked of them to do. They need to get it all out there and let the community know exactly how they stand on this. No sense having this all boil up again a in a week or a year when they can definitively end it now while people are paying attention.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:20:00 -
[230] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:I clearly should have gotten this out of the way sooner: it's me, I'm the goon CSM.
I'm not sure I can believe you.
|
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11249
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:21:00 -
[231] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Well you pay ISk for siggy / Killboardz that isk than goes to a corprations account. Which i assume is used for something, if its not why do those sites charge isk? Now theorethically if that ISK really just sits in a corp wallet and is never touched sure I would agree its not for business purposes and no violation occurring. But do either of us really think those piggy banks aren't touched by the players who created those services? That's not a business. CCP explicitly allows payment in ISK for EVE related services, such as creating sigs and banners, running servers for Teamspeak/Mumble/Jabber/etc., and writing articles. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Neesa Corrinne
Binary Systems Industries
46
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:21:00 -
[232] - Quote
So the new CSM went full Ripard Teg on Somer. Oh the irony. |
Wex Manchester
Snuff Box
63
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:21:00 -
[233] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Are you brain damaged?
...etcetera
How are we ever going to miss you if you never actually leave? With so many willful distortions of other people's words coming from you, I wonder exactly what stake you have in this? You certainly don't have Eve's greater good at heart, or you'd be congratulating people rather than RP'ing a straw man. |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1502
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:23:00 -
[234] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Frantico wrote: so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.
No. They absolutely shouldn't. They have never removed assets from accts before to return to the game. You really want every ban to become a 'EVE banned me for my assets' threadnaught? Their only option is to walk away from this and leave the whiners to whine. It's not whether they would be honest about it. It's whether they'd be perceived to be honest. Banning accts and taking the assets to recycle is a can of worms that CCP really doesn't want to open. Mr Epeen
Except they do use assets from banned accounts, including at least 1 Titan and several trillions of ISK. Epic Space Cat |
Karra Masamune
Intelligence Operation NetCorp Khaos Legion
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:23:00 -
[235] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Karra Masamune wrote:So basically only thing CCP could prove is that SOMERblink leaked chat logs with Lisa, and they took that as reason to ban him. It looks like he would have a walk out of jail card if it weren't for that as apparently CCP couldn't prove any RMT or any other major violation of EULA. Wrong. That is one of two violations (the other one being the use of an EVE account for business purposes) which are publicly apparent, which makes those the two violations that they will confirm. Other violations discovered as the result of internal investigation (read: RMT) are not disclosed. That doesn't mean they couldn't prove that it happened, it just means they're not going to tell us what they find.
And I would agree if it isn't for this
Sion Kumitomo wrote:In the handbook of GÇ£How Not to Get Permabanned,GÇ¥ not publishing private communications between you and the VP of global sales is on page one. Classic novice mistake..
|
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
98
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:24:00 -
[236] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote:AkJon Ferguson wrote:I love the weaselly lawyer-speak in the OP:
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP. Actually the promotion as it was enacted was not approved by us--nor was it the same as one they had discussed with us previously. That part is in the paragraph after the one you quoted. So what you quoted above is us saying that we didn't give permission to SOMER Blink to say the non-approved promotion was approved by us. As, one would imagine would be a thing we would do.
Can't quote this enough.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11249
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:24:00 -
[237] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:It always makes me wonder when a thread becomes a goonwave of massive proportions.
If I were the tinfoil hat type, I'd be questioning the motives behind this. What are they trying to cover for, deflect from, justify, etc.
But I'm not a tinfoil hatter so...whatever. I'll just say that as murky as the OP is, CCP did the right thing. But it would be in their best interest to carefully look into the rest of the stuff while the topic is hot and either disavow the accusations against other sites or continue banning, as the case may be. Of course it's in CCP's best interest to do so. Nobody is saying otherwise. Nobody here is telling CCP not to look closely at TMC's operation, for example. If you believe what they're doing is RMT, then by all means report them. Don't be surprised when nothing happens, because that's the result of them having been determined to be legitimate. CCP doesn't need to publicly endorse every EVE related website. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:24:00 -
[238] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Well you pay ISk for siggy / Killboardz that isk than goes to a corprations account. Which i assume is used for something, if its not why do those sites charge isk? Now theorethically if that ISK really just sits in a corp wallet and is never touched sure I would agree its not for business purposes and no violation occurring. But do either of us really think those piggy banks aren't touched by the players who created those services? That's not a business. CCP explicitly allows payment in ISK for EVE related services, such as creating sigs and banners, running servers for Teamspeak/Mumble/Jabber/etc., and writing articles.
How is it not a business? What stops them from selling PLEX or ISK or whatever? They should be fully investigated just like Somer. Cause it is a Business just becausee a business doesn't make money doesn't mean its not a business. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:24:00 -
[239] - Quote
Wex Manchester wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Are you brain damaged?
...etcetera
How are we ever going to miss you if you never actually leave? With so many willful distortions of other people's words coming from you, I wonder exactly what stake you have in this? You certainly don't have Eve's greater good at heart, or you'd be congratulating people rather than RP'ing a straw man.
Haven't distorted anything please try again later when you can back it up, thanks. |
Kali Izia
GoomWaffe Goonswarm Federation
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:25:00 -
[240] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:It always makes me wonder when a thread becomes a goonwave of massive proportions.
If I were the tinfoil hat type, I'd be questioning the motives behind this. What are they trying to cover for, deflect from, justify, etc What actually happens is someone posts about a thread in jabber and everyone clicks on it, and then we post because goons can never stop posting~
|
|
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1955
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:26:00 -
[241] - Quote
Thread temporarily closed for some cleaning. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Succendus Tegimens
Hey Fatty With Your Thick Face
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 21:26:00 -
[242] - Quote
Lae Allier wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Somer however, were offering ISK credits last year and then attempting to do the same through a PLEX buyback program. They aren't comparable like you're attempting to portray. Sorry but the companys you just mentioned are run as a business model and make real money out of it so that too is against CCP rules so I want to see the owners banned publicly as well, as it states - Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. All of the formentioned "companys" recieve real money as a result of EVE Online. I will be pursuing this further !
We are quaking in our boots that some rando renter is mad.
TMC is not RMT. CCP investigated us last year and told us to abide by a set of community guidelines which clearly state that we may only give ISK to writers if they are writing about EVE. We follow those guidelines to the letter; I should know, I do all payroll calculations and the very first step is "did they write about EVE or another game."
Sites like TMC, EN24, CZ, zKill, and so on are not RMT, as laid out by CCP in the afterment of Somergate 1.0. You can flail your arms and scream until you are blue in the face, but you are wrong. Not just from CCP's angle, but by the angle of any person with a brain.
So lay this out like it really is. You're a disgruntled nobody angry at goons because ~goons~ and you're lashing out. Be honest with yourself. |
Amantus
Snuff Box
348
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:00:00 -
[243] - Quote
this suck's man! i had some plex credits to use! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11249
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:00:00 -
[244] - Quote
Again, if you feel that TMC is doing RMT, report them. [email protected]
Just don't get mad and all "grrrr ccp is goons" when nothing happens, because you'd be refusing to acknowledge the significantly more likely possibility that you're simply wrong about it. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
|
CCP Falcon
8284
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:01:00 -
[245] - Quote
A quick point of note:
I'm the one moderating this thread, so the more you spam it and cause issues, the more time it's going to take for you to get answers to the questions I'm trying to respond to.
Also, break the forum rules, and you'll lose your posting privileges.
Answers to questions incoming once I've cleaned up the mess. CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Dutow Sa
Force Vision Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:01:00 -
[246] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote:AkJon Ferguson wrote:*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP. Actually the promotion as it was enacted was not approved by us--nor was it the same as one they had discussed with us previously. That part is in the paragraph after the one you quoted. So what you quoted above is us saying that we didn't give permission to SOMER Blink to say the non-approved promotion was approved by us. As, one would imagine would be a thing we would do.
Based on the document published by Somer, he did run the same promotion, OR he published another document, not the one sent to you. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11249
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:04:00 -
[247] - Quote
Dutow Sa wrote:CCP Manifest wrote:AkJon Ferguson wrote:*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP. Actually the promotion as it was enacted was not approved by us--nor was it the same as one they had discussed with us previously. That part is in the paragraph after the one you quoted. So what you quoted above is us saying that we didn't give permission to SOMER Blink to say the non-approved promotion was approved by us. As, one would imagine would be a thing we would do. Based on the document published by Somer, he did run the same promotion, OR he published another document, not the one sent to you. Then you didn't read it very carefully, because it outright lies about the incentive offered by the promotion. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Madora Galtaki
Annie's Teddy Bear Productions The Methodical Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:06:00 -
[248] - Quote
I know there are a lot of players out there who are saying good riddance to SomerBlink, but there are also a great many of us who are greatly saddened in saying goodbye to Somer.
Playing on SomerBlink is the biggest reason I have maintained an active account for the past year. In the five years that I've been playing Eve, my account has had a lot of sporadic inactive time. Blink has given me a reason to keep my account active even when I needed to take a break from Eve. I never participated in the recent PLEX buying service, but I enjoyed playing blinks and promos and participating in celebration events. I personally know a person whose account was inactive for nearly two years, had no intention of ever returning to Eve, and is only active now because of SomerBlink and his interest in playing the raffles with in-game currency.
In answer to those who doubt that Eve players with a Blink Credit balance will ever see that ISK again, I have already been issued a deposit from Blink's corporate account in game. I'm sure there are a lot of players to compensate.
I can't say I'm dissatisfied with the way CCP has handled the situation. As a player with an invested interest in Blink, I am appreciative of the public updates made by CCP.
Goodbye Somer, I will greatly miss you. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23981
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:06:00 -
[249] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Well you pay ISk for siggy / Killboardz that isk than goes to a corprations account. GǪand that does not make it a business. You can't pay your bills with ISK, you know.
Madora Galtaki wrote:I know there are a lot of players out there who are saying good riddance to SomerBlink, but there are also a great many of us who are greatly saddened in saying goodbye to Somer.
Playing on SomerBlink is the biggest reason I have maintained an active account for the past year. In the five years that I've been playing Eve, my account has had a lot of sporadic inactive time. Blink has given me a reason to keep my account active even when I needed to take a break from Eve. I never participated in the recent PLEX buying service, but I enjoyed playing blinks and promos and participating in celebration events. I personally know a person whose account was inactive for nearly two years, had no intention of ever returning to Eve, and is only active now because of SomerBlink and his interest in playing the raffles with in-game currency. I wouldn't worry. The lottery is a fun enough idea that someone will pick it up and run with it soon enough and you'll be right back to cursing your luck.
If there's anything the last decade has shown, it is that if there's a market, someone will provide. With this, a huge market opportunity just opened up. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
201
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:06:00 -
[250] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Well you pay ISk for siggy / Killboardz that isk than goes to a corprations account. Which i assume is used for something, if its not why do those sites charge isk? Now theorethically if that ISK really just sits in a corp wallet and is never touched sure I would agree its not for business purposes and no violation occurring. But do either of us really think those piggy banks aren't touched by the players who created those services? That's not a business. CCP explicitly allows payment in ISK for EVE related services, such as creating sigs and banners, running servers for Teamspeak/Mumble/Jabber/etc., and writing articles. How is it not a business? What stops them from selling PLEX or ISK or whatever? They should be fully investigated just like Somer. Cause it is a Business just becausee a business doesn't make money doesn't mean its not a business.
Since you seem to be dead set on this: CCP Manifest or CCP Falcon can you please comment in reference to my first post in this thread to clarify if sites like EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. are in violation of RMT policy or the other policies and what those other policies are for those who aren't aware? Thanks.
Edit - Referenced post - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4933788#post4933788 LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
144
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:08:00 -
[251] - Quote
Dutow Sa wrote:Based on the document published by Somer, he did run the same promotion, OR he published another document, not the one sent to you. What his proposal states:
Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. What actually happened:
Quote:Blink buys your PLEX at market value plus some extra ISK, provided you gave them IRL money first by buying a GTC through their affiliate link Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:09:00 -
[252] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:A quick point of note:
I'm the one moderating this thread, so the more you spam it and cause issues, the more time it's going to take for you to get answers to the questions I'm trying to respond to.
Also, break the forum rules, and you'll lose your posting privileges.
Answers to questions incoming once I've cleaned up the mess. I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but what will happen to the Somerblink corporate account now that the founder is gone? Will the isk and assets be frozen once refunds/reimbursements have been completed, or will the surviving people with access have unfettered access to what remains? Also, is CCP watching for any potential isk laundering during these reimbursement transfers? With the amount of isk involved, I would imagine there would be temptation to make billions, if not trillions, quietly disappear and perhaps be used in the future for nefarious purposes. |
Dutow Sa
Force Vision Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:13:00 -
[253] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:Dutow Sa wrote:Based on the document published by Somer, he did run the same promotion, OR he published another document, not the one sent to you. What his proposal states: Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. What actually happened: Quote:Blink buys your PLEX at market value plus some extra ISK, provided you gave them IRL money first by buying a GTC through their affiliate link
Yeah, but a few lines above that:
Quote:(so you can't just go buy PLEX in Jita and resell them to Blink for more than you paid)
The last paragraph is about this too.
To me, it's very clear from that document, that he intended to buy plex from players above market price. And it's very hard to interpret it any other way...
edit: but it also doesn't change my question: is this the document sent to CCP for approvement, or not? |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:16:00 -
[254] - Quote
Ace Boogi wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:A quick point of note:
I'm the one moderating this thread, so the more you spam it and cause issues, the more time it's going to take for you to get answers to the questions I'm trying to respond to.
Also, break the forum rules, and you'll lose your posting privileges.
Answers to questions incoming once I've cleaned up the mess. I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but what will happen to the Somerblink corporate account now that the founder is gone? Will the isk and assets be frozen once refunds/reimbursements have been completed, or will the surviving people with access have unfettered access to what remains? Also, is CCP watching for any potential isk laundering during these reimbursement transfers? With the amount of isk involved, I would imagine there would be temptation to make billions, if not trillions, quietly disappear and perhaps be used in the future for nefarious purposes.
Can't speak for Falcon, but I presume you mean accounts from other people present in the in-game corporation of Somer?
Cause CCP doesn't have corporate or business type accounts.
You can rest assured though they'll watch like a hawk if rules are broken by anyone connected. Or in general.
But yeah, where it comes to in game activities not connected to Somer and his account, technically anyone with access can run off with the loot. EVE's a cold and dark place after all.
|
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
146
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:17:00 -
[255] - Quote
CCP,
- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT? - What about CCP's involement in all of this?
I just feel that punnishing Somer is simply a start to fixing this SomerGate debarcle. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:19:00 -
[256] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement, which misled our players, and is no different than someone pretending to be an authorized representative of CCP (look at paragraph 8 of our Terms of Service). This is a serious violation because it undermines the safety and security of EVE.
Having read the leaked E-Mails, there's no way, NO WAY you can say they didn't get authorization and approval. To say anything else is disingenuous at best.
Now we can argue over if what they sent and what they did are the same thing.. Personally I again put the blame on CCP, how could you not ask the single most Obvious question? "How are you going to determine the purchase price?"
And it not going through Legal? That's not the fault of Blink.. He ASKED for it to go through Legal and was told that her authorization is all that was needed.
Don't get me wrong, SomerBink has their fair share of mistakes in this whole process. But all of it, ALL OF IT would have been prevented by a little common sense being applied at CCP.
And this applied to not just this event.. All the Crap Somer took when CCP decided to give Blink Employees special ships.. Or give Blink ships to give out for the celebration?
How about shutting down their "RMT" that you guys ignored for YEARS, while the same time advertising them regularly on the Char Selection Page, and the Community section.
If left to CCP would we even have heard that they got their Authorization? That Somer even asked for it to go to Legal? This to me is more about CCP covering their own ass and giving in to pressure, than actually sorting out the issues that caused this whole mess. |
Dutow Sa
Force Vision Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:23:00 -
[257] - Quote
Deka Ekato wrote:CCP,
- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT? - What about CCP's involement in all of this?
I just feel that punnishing Somer is simply a start to fixing this SomerGate debarcle.
This. Unless you can clarify that he was involved in RMT, this entire situation looks like that you banned him for something that was at least 50% your own fault... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11250
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:24:00 -
[258] - Quote
Dutow Sa wrote:To me, it's very clear from that document Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But remember also that this was in an discussion with the VP of Sales, who may not even play the game at all. And again, he explicitly stated the Blink would offer no extra ISK for buying through the link - a lie. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:24:00 -
[259] - Quote
Hope you're enjoying the rain today ;) |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5910
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:25:00 -
[260] - Quote
What are you going to do internally to prevent this from happening in the future? This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
|
Cherry Yeyo
69
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:27:00 -
[261] - Quote
Ace Boogi wrote:Enjoying the rain today? ;) I for one, am enjoying the rain today CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23984
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:29:00 -
[262] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:Ace Boogi wrote:Enjoying the rain today? ;) I for one, am enjoying the rain today I'm not sure rain is supposed to be this saltyGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1863
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:31:00 -
[263] - Quote
Dutow Sa wrote:Deka Ekato wrote:CCP,
- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT? - What about CCP's involement in all of this?
I just feel that punnishing Somer is simply a start to fixing this SomerGate debarcle. This. Unless you can clarify that he was involved in RMT, this entire situation looks like that you banned him for something that was at least 50% your own fault... He was actually banned 50%, rounded up. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
AlphaMike1
Dirt 'n' Glitter I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:32:00 -
[264] - Quote
Time to move to IWANTISK! |
Dutow Sa
Force Vision Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:33:00 -
[265] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dutow Sa wrote:To me, it's very clear from that document Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But remember also that this was in an discussion with the VP of Sales, who may not even play the game at all. And again, he explicitly stated the Blink would offer no extra ISK for buying through the link - a lie.
Who was asked to forward it to the legal department, and reply with a written confirmation after that.
Any lawyer can figure out, that the 'for buying through the link' means exactly that part, and not the entire process. |
Riela Tanal
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:33:00 -
[266] - Quote
Since my question most likely got burried with the rage posts and trolling.
CCP Falcon, does this issue with SOMER Blink have any affect on the prizes they donated to Theomachy?
We have handed those out to players already. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
150
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:37:00 -
[267] - Quote
Dutow Sa wrote:Deka Ekato wrote:CCP,
- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT? - What about CCP's involement in all of this?
I just feel that punnishing Somer is simply a start to fixing this SomerGate debarcle. This. Unless you can clarify that he was involved in RMT, this entire situation looks like that you banned him for something that was at least 50% your own fault...
Don't be daft. CCP's had a longstanding policy of not revealing any details about RMT investigations to the public. In this instance, they've confirmed the items already on the public record. Nor have they said for even a moment that they're blameless in this themselves - in fact, Falcon's pretty much given as much of a mea culpa for the company as responsible disciplinary policies allow, short of Lisa herself coming her and falling on her sword for your entertainment. And in most companies, she's probably heavily encouraged not to do that, as it goes against established procedures and sets an absolutely terrible precedent. |
Synar Earthoof
OSD Clan FleetCom Silver Dragonz
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:38:00 -
[268] - Quote
So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable. That's essentially the short of why you went after Somer. Since it doesn't look like you could get financial logs to prove a kick back.
Essentialy: I buy plex from EvE site normally. I prefer to use Markee, and then I just dump it on market for about 15% above market average. Thus increasing my potential isk markup because someone is always dumb enough to buy without looking.
Because someone just payed me 15% more isk than a plex was worth at the time, I should in essence now be banned for having sold that isk on the market at a substantial mark up. That isk is then funneled into either manufacturing new ships, or used to be into blink so I could just blink on random stuff and then collect the isk payouts from them.
Cause in this case, god forbid I want to use any of the lottery sites as the logic instated puts me clearly in the wrong because I sell my plex's at a mark up, and then use the isk to gamble my day away at work when i can't play EvE.
*waits to get slapped in cuffs* |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11250
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:38:00 -
[269] - Quote
Dutow Sa wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dutow Sa wrote:To me, it's very clear from that document Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But remember also that this was in an discussion with the VP of Sales, who may not even play the game at all. And again, he explicitly stated the Blink would offer no extra ISK for buying through the link - a lie. Who was asked to forward it to the legal department, and reply with a written confirmation after that. Any lawyer can figure out, that the 'for buying through the link' means exactly that part, and not the entire process. The extra ISK would not have been offered if nor for having bought the PLEX through the link.
There is a direct causal chain between buying PLEX through the link and getting extra ISK for it, which means that the sentence is a lie. Whatever happens in between is irrelevant. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
201
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:42:00 -
[270] - Quote
Riela Tanal wrote:Since my question most likely got burried with the rage posts and trolling.
CCP Falcon, does this issue with SOMER Blink have any affect on the prizes they donated to Theomachy?
We have handed those out to players already.
My guess is it won't. If there were assets tied up on Somer's end (i.e. not contracted over) then you may be SOL. I don't think CCP will take any ISK or assets from you since they came from Somer. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
Chrytis
Sacred Templars DARKNESS.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:45:00 -
[271] - Quote
You are the weakest blink, good bye.
Being banned from blink many times, for writing browser plugins to help you play more blink (and not being reimbursed), I feel justice. hows that ToS now, Somer? |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1401
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:53:00 -
[272] - Quote
Synar Earthoof wrote:So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable. That's essentially the short of why you went after Somer. Since it doesn't look like you could get financial logs to prove a kick back.
Essentialy: I buy plex from EvE site normally. I prefer to use Markee, and then I just dump it on market for about 15% above market average. Thus increasing my potential isk markup because someone is always dumb enough to buy without looking.
Because someone just payed me 15% more isk than a plex was worth at the time, I should in essence now be banned for having sold that isk on the market at a substantial mark up. That isk is then funneled into either manufacturing new ships, or used to be into blink so I could just blink on random stuff and then collect the isk payouts from them.
Cause in this case, god forbid I want to use any of the lottery sites as the logic instated puts me clearly in the wrong because I sell my plex's at a mark up, and then use the isk to gamble my day away at work when i can't play EvE.
*waits to get slapped in cuffs*
Hodor!! The Tears Must Flow |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
144
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:54:00 -
[273] - Quote
Synar Earthoof wrote:So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable. No, but nice strawman. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11053
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:55:00 -
[274] - Quote
Dutow Sa wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dutow Sa wrote:To me, it's very clear from that document Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But remember also that this was in an discussion with the VP of Sales, who may not even play the game at all. And again, he explicitly stated the Blink would offer no extra ISK for buying through the link - a lie. Who was asked to forward it to the legal department, and reply with a written confirmation after that. Any lawyer can figure out, that the 'for buying through the link' means exactly that part, and not the entire process.
I don't think "see they were only trying to pull the wool over CCP's head" is a good defense Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:59:00 -
[275] - Quote
Synar Earthoof wrote:So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable. That's essentially the short of why you went after Somer. Since it doesn't look like you could get financial logs to prove a kick back.
This is what we might call "oversimplification". As usual, oversimplification tends to obfuscate the actual problem. In your case you've completely missed everything that made it RMT.
Synar Earthoof wrote:Essentialy: I buy plex from EvE site normally. I prefer to use Markee, and then I just dump it on market for about 15% above market average. Thus increasing my potential isk markup because someone is always dumb enough to buy without looking.
Yep, that's fine."Dumb Person" did NOT exchange $ for ISK, nor did YOU receive $ in exchange for ISK. Markee got $, you got PLEX. You took PLEX and sold it for ISK. Dumb Person got PLEX in exchange for ISK. There is no connection of $ and ISK anywhere between Dumb Person and you. That is not at all what Somer was proposing.
What Somer was proposing connected $ and ISK between them and the EVE player, by trying to obfuscate some steps through Markee (and other shenanigans). The exact details of how this happened are important and you can't just simplify them out of the picture to try and make your point. The exact details are also extremely well explained elsewhere, over and over, so I'm not doing it again here just for you. EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
|
CCP Falcon
8291
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:59:00 -
[276] - Quote
Okay... so, lets get this started!
Some answers...
SomeDudeInLocal wrote:Are users who made use of the recent service also subject to punishment regarding the incident?
In particular, anyone that may have used the service in faith of Somer having the now invalid Approval from CCP?
Absolutely not.
Frantico wrote:I get why he got banned. BUT with banning him you also banned almost 30% of all the Unique ships in eve alliance turney ships of old and other ships that just dont exist anywhere else its alot of history that has been in 1 persons assets. for a game that is built around its rich history.
so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.
whatever you choose to do CCP dont ruin the eve History by removing these ships from the game
We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value.
Two step wrote:Are you concerned that banning Somer might lock up ISK/assets that could otherwise be used to repay players?
Not in the slightest.
Alli Ginthur wrote:The whole E1 debacle ended with a anonymous quiet ban. This should have happened here also. But what's done is done.
The Erotica 1 case was based around harassment, and nothing was released to protect those who were harassed. Please don't rumor monger.
Anya Klibor wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice. You are all types of dumb.
Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb.
Riela Tanal wrote:I do not see this in your FAQ. Falcon, does this have any impact on the prizes that SOMER Blink donated for Theomachy?
In what respect?
If they have already been paid out, and you're worried they'll be confiscated, no. We're not going to reprimand members of the community for using their services.
If they are still to be paid out, and are on any of the affected accounts, this is an issue you'll have to take up with SOMER Blink.
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Again, if you feel that TMC is doing RMT, report them. [email protected]Just don't get mad and all "grrrr ccp is goons" when nothing happens, because you'd be refusing to acknowledge the significantly more likely possibility that you're simply wrong about it.
This.
Deka Ekato wrote:CCP,
- Can you please clarify that one of the reasons that Somer was punnished for was for RMT?
As I said in the original statement, we're not discussing this. CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Geenemen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:01:00 -
[277] - Quote
Synar Earthoof wrote:So let me get this straight. Buying a plex... and then trading it for isk. Is now bannable.
You don't understand the concept of what's going on here, so let me give you an explanation as if you were five.
CCP likes money. They like money because money makes them stay in business. One of the ways they make money is through the sale, with real dollars, of an in game item called a PLEX.
CCP also wants to make sure people know about their really awesome game, so they make offers to big websites that have a lot of traffic. "Hey," they say. "If you let us advertise our game on your website, we will pay you for every time we make a sale."
This is great for websites like Twitch TV, or maybe even penny arcade. They have no dealings with EVE Online except in that they generate revenue.
Some enterprising people, however, thought to themselves that if they made a website, they could make money by dealing in plexes and ISK. They decide that they want to make people come to their website that gambles using the in game currency by offering to buy this in game item with real money, THROUGH THEIR ADVERTISEMENT. As if that wasn't bad enough, the person said "Oh, and by the way, this is totally legit, CCP says it's okay and official!" When he has blatantly lied. CCP has stated that this is *not* true.
CCP doesn't mind giving you money to advertise, but that's what the program was. Advertisement. Not a way to cycle money. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4141
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:02:00 -
[278] - Quote
I find is extraordinarily amazing that there's so many threads, blogs and official posts about this, and still some people seem to be unable to comprehend what Somer did wrong. How do you even get your underwear on in the morning? All by yourselves? It's a genuine mystery. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
729
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:02:00 -
[279] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: If they are still to be paid out, and are on any of the affected accounts, this is an issue you'll have to take up with SOMER Blink.
Who through your actions can't really do anything about it. So you might as well say "your stuffed" rather than dance around the point. |
hamham
AiaMiciCuDeaiaMare Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:02:00 -
[280] - Quote
hehehe where there is always money "isk" corruption big aliances not buy plexes ?
|
|
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:09:00 -
[281] - Quote
Wow 50 shades of dumb, nice professionalism Falcon. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20262
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:10:00 -
[282] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. And this is why we <3 you (no homo)
Brahan Seer wrote:Wow 50 shades of dumb, nice professionalism Falcon. If you didn't post dumb stuff, then you wouldn't get called out on it.
Simples. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Nelly Galbatha
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:10:00 -
[283] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice. You are all types of dumb.
Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb.
CCP Falcon MY HERO <3 |
Geenemen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:11:00 -
[284] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Wow 50 shades of dumb, nice professionalism Falcon.
Excellent way to advance the conversation. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
202
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:12:00 -
[285] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Wow 50 shades of dumb, nice professionalism Falcon.
You could contact CCP's HR if you feel inclined to do so. That or ***** on forums in a spat of rage. Whichever you want really. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Nelly Galbatha
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:12:00 -
[286] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Wow 50 shades of dumb, nice professionalism Falcon.
Are you one of the people that should feel insulted by this call out? if your this stupid you deserve it.
CCP FALCON MY HERO |
Frantico
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
50
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:13:00 -
[287] - Quote
"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value."
well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken
*edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609
feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure |
Verneusses
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:13:00 -
[288] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Wow 50 shades of dumb, nice professionalism Falcon. rekt
|
Rust Martialis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:14:00 -
[289] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb.
Yippee kai yay, Mister Falcon! |
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:15:00 -
[290] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb.
Did you know they're making this into a movie?! And they had the audacity to not make it a XXX flick. Honestly, I just don't see the point otherwise.
EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
|
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1395
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:17:00 -
[291] - Quote
Told ya
Not being swept under the rug, not being waited out in hopes that it goes away.
Of course into each life some Rain will fall and nobody is totally good or totally evil. We lost a player today. One who was admired for his genius and innovation in making a HUGE pile of isk. He shared some, kept more and a lot of people enjoyed his service
Icarus
What you can take away from this.
1) Nobody in Eve is too big to fail 2) There be a new sheriff in town 3) Publishing communications with CCP is a dangerous step 5) Mike like to mess with OCD folks 6) When one witch is burnt people start looking around for something else to light 7) The polite folks got a lot more answers from Falcon than the screamers (unless you LIKE being called 50 shades of dumb)
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Marsha Mallow
1461
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:18:00 -
[292] - Quote
Can you all stop gibbering so the devs can sleep. Unless there are futher salacious revelations, it's done. No point ruining the gain by turning snappy. Unless you can get Dinsdale to come back and comment, obv.
CCP Falcon wrote:Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. It's not dissimilar. Mumbling "I'd like to claim your arse [er, whatsyer name again?]" is always a winner. That blogger is not seeing the funny side though. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5330
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:19:00 -
[293] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb.
Ice Burn.
Rroff wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: If they are still to be paid out, and are on any of the affected accounts, this is an issue you'll have to take up with SOMER Blink.
Who through your actions* can't really do anything about it. So you might as well say "your stuffed" rather than dance around the point.
Blink has tons of assets on non-banned accounts. The organization was masterful in its ability to delegate responsibility (meaning they also necessarily spread assets around). "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Zahara Cody
Imperial Corrections Service.
127
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:20:00 -
[294] - Quote
Can you confirm/deny if an Imperial Armageddon and Tribal Tempest were among the assets that were banned? |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1401
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:20:00 -
[295] - Quote
Permaband next music - "fifty shades of dumb" The Tears Must Flow |
Lord BryanII
38
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:21:00 -
[296] - Quote
Is there any internal investigation on how a player got to be so cozy with a Vice President? If there would have been proper channels in place, say a relationship manager that knew his history, this may not have happened.
Whats to keep some other player from getting cozy with a Vice President of security? Or a lead game designer that knows when market changes are about to be announced? |
DaOpa
Static Corp
38
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:22:00 -
[297] - Quote
So is this RMT or not, paying a EVE Player ISK to work on stuff that has nothing to do with EVE Online>?
DaOpa's EVE Fansite ||Wormhole Database / Wormhole Systems Lookup Tool ||Live Streamer at twitch.tv/daopa |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:23:00 -
[298] - Quote
I am waiting to see more requests about what items got banned with somers accounts. I'm not sure if CCP releases that type of info but look for prices on assumed banned ships to jump. |
Beta Maoye
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:24:00 -
[299] - Quote
After reading the anouncement, I am not sure whether Somer had actually broken the RMT rule or not.
So I think the fact that he disclosed the correspondence that put CCP in embarrassment is the primary offense that get him banned. |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Spaceship Samurai
377
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:24:00 -
[300] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Wow 50 shades of dumb, nice professionalism Falcon.
In fairness, your post was incredibly stupid Warping to zero |
|
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
409
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:25:00 -
[301] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: After careful consideration and consultation with CSM9, who have displayed an outstanding level of support in assisting with this issue, CCP has taken the decision to permanently ban the founder of SOMER Blink from EVE Online across all accounts, with immediate effect.
CCP Falcon wrote:Following the promotion, CCP no longer regards SOMER Blink as a fair or legitimate service within the EVE Community. We are unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, so itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with the process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and/or ISK returned by SOMER Blink will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.
I'm confused. If all his accounts are banned immediately, how are you going to "allow" him to return the ISK to anyone? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20264
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:30:00 -
[302] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:I'm confused. If all his accounts are banned immediately, how are you going to "allow" him to return the ISK to anyone? It's called delegation, you pass all the work off to your minions while taking all of the credit and raking in the cash. It's a fairly common business practice.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
|
CCP Falcon
8295
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:32:00 -
[303] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:
1) 2) 3) 5) 6) 7)
You're the worst Mike.
Anarchist.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11056
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:34:00 -
[304] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote:I'm confused. If all his accounts are banned immediately, how are you going to "allow" him to return the ISK to anyone? It's called delegation, you pass all the work off to your minions while taking all of the credit and raking in the cash. It's a fairly common business practice.
don't forget passing down all the blame
that is absolutely crucial Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20264
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:35:00 -
[305] - Quote
Andski wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote:I'm confused. If all his accounts are banned immediately, how are you going to "allow" him to return the ISK to anyone? It's called delegation, you pass all the work off to your minions while taking all of the credit and raking in the cash. It's a fairly common business practice. don't forget passing down all the blame that is absolutely crucial True true, credit flows up, blame flows down.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
|
CCP Falcon
8300
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:40:00 -
[306] - Quote
HarlyQ wrote:I am waiting to see more requests about what items got banned with somers accounts. I'm not sure if CCP releases that type of info but look for prices on assumed banned ships to jump.
We don't release information of this nature
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
409
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:41:00 -
[307] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote:AkJon Ferguson wrote:*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP. Actually the promotion as it was enacted was not approved by us--nor was it the same as one they had discussed with us previously. That part is in the paragraph after the one you quoted. So what you quoted above is us saying that we didn't give permission to SOMER Blink to say the non-approved promotion was approved by us. As, one would imagine would be a thing we would do.
In other words.... There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
409
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:41:00 -
[308] - Quote
Please Delete... Forums acting weird lately & double posting. |
|
CCP Falcon
8300
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:41:00 -
[309] - Quote
Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure
I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:42:00 -
[310] - Quote
i wonder if every CCP member has to consult the legal team before making a forum post. you know so they properly represent CCP if they represent CCP and explicitly say or not when they're just doing their own thing (banter, having a good time, etc.) Bring on the Bureacracy |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20264
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:43:00 -
[311] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. So what you're saying that the incredibly rare ships are now sat in CCPs corporate hangar and may be used in a live event sometime in the future?
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
|
CCP Falcon
8300
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:44:00 -
[312] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:i wonder if every CCP member has to consult the legal team before making a forum post. you know so they properly represent CCP if they represent CCP and explicitly say or not when they're just doing their own thing (banter, having a good time, etc.) Bring on the Bureacracy
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11254
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:44:00 -
[313] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:CCP Manifest wrote:AkJon Ferguson wrote:*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
"Second, SOMER Blink advertised the promotion as being GÇ£approved by CCP.GÇ¥ But SOMER Blink never had permission from CCP to make such a statement,"
In other words: Yes, the promotion was approved by CCP. But we didn't give him permission to tell people that it was approved by CCP. Actually the promotion as it was enacted was not approved by us--nor was it the same as one they had discussed with us previously. That part is in the paragraph after the one you quoted. So what you quoted above is us saying that we didn't give permission to SOMER Blink to say the non-approved promotion was approved by us. As, one would imagine would be a thing we would do. In other words.... There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. That quote is pertinent and insightful regardless of who said it or what they did. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Natako Pirkibo
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:45:00 -
[314] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Any consideration regarding the fact that this action will most likely remove a large number of unique items from the game (namely, numerous AT prize ships and other not-obtainable-ever-again type ships that are/were in possession of Somer)?
A potential solution would be to auction these unique items through public contracts with the ISK going to CCP (ie. removed from the game). Might even help fight the inflation a bit :)
Zero phux given. Noone flies that s*** longer than it takes to lock it.
Two step wrote:Are you concerned that banning Somer might lock up ISK/assets that could otherwise be used to repay players?
Even less phux given. If you gamble, you should be ready to loose your stuff in 99.(9)% cases. Hell, every time you throw your stuff in a gambling action, consider it being lost. Every time you win, consider gaining a free stuff. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20264
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:47:00 -
[315] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:[img]http://www.boxwapper.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/grumpy-cat-no-just-no-meme-gein18pr.png[/img] I am jelly of your forum superpowers, especially the ability to post cat pictures "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
853
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:47:00 -
[316] - Quote
So are you guys also researching (or have already done) the connection to Markee Dragon? I mean, the guy has been involved in multiple RMT schemes over the years for many different games. All of which got shut down, all for which he got banned for. And now here's another MMO money making scheme, low and behold Markee Dragon is tied directly to it. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
729
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:50:00 -
[317] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote:I'm confused. If all his accounts are banned immediately, how are you going to "allow" him to return the ISK to anyone? It's called delegation, you pass all the work off to your minions while taking all of the credit and raking in the cash. It's a fairly common business practice.
Which if Somer was involved in RMTing "by the book" should ostensibly mean confiscating or locking of all those assets (obviously actually tracking them, etc. is another matter), otherwise if its just for the publishing of internal memos and other sideline EULA breaches, which have mostly come about due to marginalisation even if Somer was in the wrong, this has taken a step in a very dubious direction.
EDIT: This is assuming that the correspondence Somer published isn't faked and the proposal is word for word as submitted to CCP. |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:55:00 -
[318] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:HarlyQ wrote:I am waiting to see more requests about what items got banned with somers accounts. I'm not sure if CCP releases that type of info but look for prices on assumed banned ships to jump. We don't release information of this nature Thank you for the quick response keep up the good work. Btw loved the fifty shades if Grey response. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2524
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:56:00 -
[319] - Quote
CCP Falcon, is there any chance this might inspire a clearer definition of the third party rules and guidelines going forward? As it stands it seems that they are spread all over the place in articles, blogs, and years of forum posts. A big incident like this one can be kind of intimidating for first-time developers when the rules aren't exactly clearly laid out, especially when the result is a ban and the exact cause of the ban is unknown. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20265
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:58:00 -
[320] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote:I'm confused. If all his accounts are banned immediately, how are you going to "allow" him to return the ISK to anyone? It's called delegation, you pass all the work off to your minions while taking all of the credit and raking in the cash. It's a fairly common business practice. Which if Somer was involved in RMTing "by the book" should ostensibly mean confiscating or locking of all those assets (obviously actually tracking them, etc. is another matter), otherwise if its just for the publishing of internal memos and other sideline EULA breaches, which have mostly come about due to marginalisation even if Somer was in the wrong, this has taken a step in a very dubious direction. Much of the isk will be held in the corporate wallet, which "employees" of SomerBlink will have access to, not Somers personal wallet which is probably locked.
Somer and his/her alts are banned, not the "employees" of his corporation, or the corporation itself.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
|
Frantico
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
52
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 23:58:00 -
[321] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX.
This makes no sence at all. CCP has done this before and taken this action Except now its about Eve history and ships that have been around since the begining and not a small amount of them. These are worth more to people because they are a part of our game. instead of a stack of plexes. what makes me think you dont actualy play the game you work for is that you dont understand the importance of history in this game and what people feel about it. i will never be ablet o afford these ships in question but i like the idea there are these rare 1 of a kind ships out there that people have and not that all of them are sitting on banned accounts.
But if you can humor me to explain why a part of eve history is less important than a stack of plexes
|
Febreeze
Pentergy United Federation of Commerce
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:00:00 -
[322] - Quote
Frantico wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. This makes no sence at all. CCP has done this before and taken this action Except now its about Eve history and ships that have been around since the begining and not a small amount of them. These are worth more to people because they are a part of our game. instead of a stack of plexes. what makes me think you dont actualy play the game you work for is that you dont understand the importance of history in this game and what people feel about it. i will never be ablet o afford these ships in question but i like the idea there are these rare 1 of a kind ships out there that people have and not that all of them are sitting on banned accounts. But if you can humor me to explain why a part of eve history is less important than a stack of plexes
I have to agree, its too bad CCP doesn't understand the importance of history or the impact of their actions. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1865
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:03:00 -
[323] - Quote
Frantico wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. This makes no sence at all. CCP has done this before and taken this action Except now its about Eve history and ships that have been around since the begining and not a small amount of them. These are worth more to people because they are a part of our game. instead of a stack of plexes. what makes me think you dont actualy play the game you work for is that you dont understand the importance of history in this game and what people feel about it. i will never be ablet o afford these ships in question but i like the idea there are these rare 1 of a kind ships out there that people have and not that all of them are sitting on banned accounts. But if you can humor me to explain why a part of eve history is less important than a stack of plexes Hint: one of them also exists in the real world. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:04:00 -
[324] - Quote
Frantico wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. This makes no sence at all. CCP has done this before and taken this action Except now its about Eve history and ships that have been around since the begining and not a small amount of them. These are worth more to people because they are a part of our game. instead of a stack of plexes. what makes me think you dont actualy play the game you work for is that you dont understand the importance of history in this game and what people feel about it. i will never be ablet o afford these ships in question but i like the idea there are these rare 1 of a kind ships out there that people have and not that all of them are sitting on banned accounts. But if you can humor me to explain why a part of eve history is less important than a stack of plexes Because it was banned out of the game. If you really want to see one of these rare ships try google search ;) |
Frantico
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
52
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:05:00 -
[325] - Quote
HarlyQ wrote:Frantico wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. This makes no sence at all. CCP has done this before and taken this action Except now its about Eve history and ships that have been around since the begining and not a small amount of them. These are worth more to people because they are a part of our game. instead of a stack of plexes. what makes me think you dont actualy play the game you work for is that you dont understand the importance of history in this game and what people feel about it. i will never be ablet o afford these ships in question but i like the idea there are these rare 1 of a kind ships out there that people have and not that all of them are sitting on banned accounts. But if you can humor me to explain why a part of eve history is less important than a stack of plexes Because it was banned out of the game. If you really want to see one of these rare ships try google search ;)
So were the plexes they returned and gave out as prizes :) thats my point |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11256
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:07:00 -
[326] - Quote
"I'm mad that this ship which was going to sit in a player's hangar forever is now sitting in a banned player's hangar forever." Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
35
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:08:00 -
[327] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. I would like to see an in space, flight museum added where we can go to view these ships. Place a beacon in amarr or something and put a model of each rare ship out there.
Better yet, place a model of each ship ever made by each faction in the appropriate empire region. (include the pirate faction ones that relate to the empire ones in that area). |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:09:00 -
[328] - Quote
Frantico wrote:HarlyQ wrote:Frantico wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. This makes no sence at all. CCP has done this before and taken this action Except now its about Eve history and ships that have been around since the begining and not a small amount of them. These are worth more to people because they are a part of our game. instead of a stack of plexes. what makes me think you dont actualy play the game you work for is that you dont understand the importance of history in this game and what people feel about it. i will never be ablet o afford these ships in question but i like the idea there are these rare 1 of a kind ships out there that people have and not that all of them are sitting on banned accounts. But if you can humor me to explain why a part of eve history is less important than a stack of plexes Because it was banned out of the game. If you really want to see one of these rare ships try google search ;) So were the plexes they returned and gave out as prizes :) thats my point Well I guess I have to spoon feed you. The PLEX cost real money the ships cost isk. Easy :) |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:10:00 -
[329] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. I would like to see an in space, flight museum added where we can go to view these ships. Place a beacon in amarr or something and put a model of each rare ship out there. Better yet, CCP should auction them off next time there's a PLEX4Good. |
Geenemen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:11:00 -
[330] - Quote
Febreeze wrote:Frantico wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:*edit* incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX.
But if you can humor me to explain why a part of eve history is less important than a stack of plexes I have to agree, its too bad CCP doesn't understand the importance of history or the impact of their actions.
Like my grandfather used to say. Everyone and everything has a price. You just have to know what it is, and be willing to pay it. |
|
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:11:00 -
[331] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX. I would like to see an in space, flight museum added where we can go to view these ships. Place a beacon in amarr or something and put a model of each rare ship out there. I think that's called sisi or Google images |
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
18
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:15:00 -
[332] - Quote
Febreeze wrote:I have to agree, its too bad CCP doesn't understand the importance of history or the impact of their actions.
Quite the opposite... the fact that these ships were banned out of the game via Somer's actions is a new part of EVE history that will likely be mentioned for years to come. "History" doesn't mean everything shiny sticks around so you can look at it in a museum. EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
416
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:16:00 -
[333] - Quote
I am late to this particular thread but I wanted to say that I think CCP's (in particular, Falcon and Leeloo's) response to this situation has been exemplary. They have communicated with the community throughout, they have constantly coordinated with CSM9 and the final outcome was entirely justified. There was one particular part of the final statement posted in the OP of this thread I disagreed with though:
CCP Falcon wrote:CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department). (emphasis mine)
Whilst I believe Somer utilised some pretty vague and tricksy wording in his original proposal and clearly carried out a final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted, it is clear that a submitted proposal was given authorisation by a member of CCP. Whether that person had jurisdiction to sign off on it or not isn't down to Somer but the individual themselves.
To be clear, I believe the final judgement made by CCP in regards to Somer was entirely fair but I also believe that that key point in Falcon's OP is incorrect. That shouldn't take away from their superb handling of this situation overall and I hope this is a benchmark and template should a similar situation arise in the future.
I wanted to bring this up because I have been utterly impressed by Falcon and Leeloo's handling of this situation but this one particular point doesn't ring true for me and having seen others point out the fact on this thread, I felt it important that you heard what this particular CSM representative was thinking. A CSM where all 14 individuals think the same thing all of the time is ultimately pointless after all. www.crossingzebras.com |
|
CCP Falcon
8310
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:17:00 -
[334] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:CCP Falcon, is there any chance this might inspire a clearer definition of the third party rules and guidelines going forward? As it stands it seems that they are spread all over the place in articles, blogs, and years of forum posts. A big incident like this one can be kind of intimidating for first-time developers when the rules aren't exactly clearly laid out, especially when the result is a ban and the exact cause of the ban is unknown.
This is still to be determined, but something that I'll be pushing for.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5331
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:17:00 -
[335] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Andski wrote:don't forget passing down all the blame
that is absolutely crucial True true, credit flows up, blame flows down.
That's really where Somer went wrong. Never allow **** to flow uphill when you're anywhere near the top. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2532
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:19:00 -
[336] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:CCP Falcon, is there any chance this might inspire a clearer definition of the third party rules and guidelines going forward? As it stands it seems that they are spread all over the place in articles, blogs, and years of forum posts. A big incident like this one can be kind of intimidating for first-time developers when the rules aren't exactly clearly laid out, especially when the result is a ban and the exact cause of the ban is unknown. This is still to be determined, but something that I'll be pushing for. Thanks a lot, I appreciate it! |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
2060
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:19:00 -
[337] - Quote
Thank you to the ccp community team for their appropriate and decisive action on this matter. Well done. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
35
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:23:00 -
[338] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:I am late to this particular thread but I wanted to say that I think CCP's (in particular, Falcon and Leeloo's) response to this situation has been exemplary. They have communicated with the community throughout, they have constantly coordinated with CSM9 and the final outcome was entirely justified. There was one particular part of the final statement posted in the OP of this thread I disagreed with though: CCP Falcon wrote:CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department). (emphasis mine) Whilst I believe Somer utilised some pretty vague and tricksy wording in his original proposal and clearly carried out a final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted, it is clear that a submitted proposal was given authorisation by a member of CCP. Whether that person had jurisdiction to sign off on it or not isn't down to Somer but the individual themselves. To be clear, I believe the final judgement made by CCP in regards to Somer was entirely fair but I also believe that that key point in Falcon's OP is incorrect. That shouldn't take away from their superb handling of this situation overall and I hope this is a benchmark and template should a similar situation arise in the future. I wanted to bring this up because I have been utterly impressed by Falcon and Leeloo's handling of this situation but this one particular point doesn't ring true for me and having seen others point out the fact on this thread, I felt it important that you heard what this particular CSM representative was thinking. A CSM where all 14 individuals think the same thing all of the time is ultimately pointless after all. Agreed. Even if the particular promotion had received clearance from CCP, verifying something was in compliance with the rules does not constitute an official endorsement of it. In other words, "approved by CCP" would never have been appropriate to list on their site without explicit permission to do so. |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
96
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:25:00 -
[339] - Quote
I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
611
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:28:00 -
[340] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned.
ffs.. it has been answered so many times.
Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over.
*facedesks so hard*
CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman **** or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^
|
|
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
35
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:28:00 -
[341] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned. My isk balance was refunded early yesterday my time. Outstanding prizes on contract may be an issue but the actual isk was distributed within ~24hrs of the SOMER site listing the message that they were shutting down. |
Accidentally Myname
Myname Replacement Brokerage LLC
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:30:00 -
[342] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned. ffs.. it has been answered so many times. Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over. *facedesks so hard*CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman **** or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^
Careful you might lose the other eye! |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:35:00 -
[343] - Quote
1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors who in return sell to those that are space poor. CCP was making money from this full circle and closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.
I have played this game on and off for 9 years roughly I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.
For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other *******. |
R3A50N
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:36:00 -
[344] - Quote
honestly, rmt problems aside, there's been a lot of hate towards somerblink over the years... in recent memory, there were ddos attacks and bounties on somer and the alliance...so the hate began before the rmt infractions. i think, honestly, it come down to more anger that carebears can make isk through soft means (albeit if luck were on their side) and take away billions from gambling. given enough time, money corrupts all, even fake money we all chase for our respective needs... |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:37:00 -
[345] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted The proposal was exactly what was carried out, it was just a failure of the reader to "read between the lines" in this case. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3451
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:37:00 -
[346] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors who in return sell to those that are space poor. CCP was making money from this full circle and closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.
I have played this game on and off for 9 years roughly I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.
For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other *******.
You should read up on the scheme.
Somer selling GTCs was not RMT.
Somer selling GTCs with a promise 'cash this in for PLEX, and then I'll buy those PLEX off you for ISK at above market rates' was RMT. It's doing in-game trades that favor people who give you RL money.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=366607 - Gank incursion runners, win prizes! August 26-Sept 30. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
612
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:37:00 -
[347] - Quote
Accidentally Myname wrote:Careful you might lose the other eye!
ahh good point.. though i could just rip a new one out of one of my many corpses ^^ spare parts ftw
|
Jeann Valjean
Justified Chaos
42
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:38:00 -
[348] - Quote
Amazing work by CCP and the CSM to resolve this quickly and as openly as possible.
If we had the tools, I'd build a CCP Falcon monument in Jita. Great to see CCP learning from past mistakes.
|
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
612
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:41:00 -
[349] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Told ya Not being swept under the rug, not being waited out in hopes that it goes away. Of course into each life some Rain will fall and nobody is totally good or totally evil. We lost a player today. One who was admired for his genius and innovation in making a HUGE pile of isk. He shared some, kept more and a lot of people enjoyed his service Icarus What you can take away from this. 1) Nobody in Eve is too big to fail 2) There be a new sheriff in town 3) Publishing communications with CCP is a dangerous step 5) Mike like to mess with OCD folks 6) When one witch is burnt people start looking around for something else to light 7) The polite folks got a lot more answers from Falcon than the screamers (unless you LIKE being called 50 shades of dumb) m
8} I will never again sell my character for the educational good of the community. 9} CCP hired a real community team in Falcon and leelo and they are standing ready at the gate. So don't try to mess with their pay check and the 25 million CCP profits from the world we created ( Cause this is all they have at this point) 10} I think SONY ONLINE is a better place for Markee and somer to profit from using others hard work. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2909
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:42:00 -
[350] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again.
Cheers mate. You won't be missed.
Edward Harris wrote: This is still a fault of CCPs lack of internal communication and you are taking it out on a player. Good job. My trust in CCP has dropped to zero and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this is an outrage.
No. Somer made an active decision to try and scrape past the rules. Let's blame the party who made the bad decision, shall we?
This is what actually makes the most angry about the whole thing - the people that act like Somer is the victim in all of this. If Somer hadn't attempted to game the system (for a second freaking time!), none of this would have been necessary. If he hadn't tossed his toys out of the pram, broken the eula deliberately and publicly (re publishing private communications), and had instead let the investigation take its course, he may have been allowed to continue running the gambling site and gotten off with a(nother) warning (assuming CCP could not prove any RMT actually took place).
Somer made the decision. Somer chose to act in bad faith. Somer chose to misrepresent CCP's approval of this scheme.
Somer.Somer.Somer. He may have thought he was too important to Eve to ban. Fortunately for the rest of us, he was wrong. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
|
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
417
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:44:00 -
[351] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted The proposal was exactly what was carried out, it was just a failure of the reader to "read between the lines" in this case.
In my opinion the wording was deliberately vague so as to be interpreted in multiple ways. As I read it, it was not executed as submitted. Others such as yourself may disagree. Either way, I believe someone at CCP clearly signed off on it and shouldn't have if a) they didn't have jurisdiction or b) were in any doubt whatsoever as to what was proposed. www.crossingzebras.com |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
202
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:44:00 -
[352] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors
Somer isn't, nor should be mistaken for, a third party vendor of PLEX/GTC sales.
crimsonshank wrote:closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.
Somer closed their site down. CCP didn't tell them to, per Somer's statement. That's an issue on their end, not CCP's.
crimsonshank wrote:I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.
Citation needed for TMC & GoonSwarm's "RMT practices." Without that evidence, it's simply rumor mongering and hearsay which CCP said not to do in this thread.
crimsonshank wrote:For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other *******.
I'm sorry you are so worked up over a video game you feel the need to throw ad hominem at people who put their free time aside to help the game and it's community out for free. Perhaps you can find, or even make, a better game that isn't so full of issues and problems you seem to be worked up about. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:47:00 -
[353] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again. Cheers mate. You won't be missed.
Very original insult, please try again later. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:48:00 -
[354] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned. ffs.. it has been answered so many times. Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over. *facedesks so hard* CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman **** or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^
Problem is this boils down - if Somer was punished for RMTing then surely the whole organisation should have its assets locked down? if Somer wasn't punished for RMTing then either Somer or CCP has lied about the information as published by Somer or had a serious breakdown of internal organisation/communication which if its on the CCP side would have put Somer in an untenable position - which leads to far more worrying ramifications in either direction.
CCP needs to be very clear that the information in the proposal as posted by Somer was never appraised by them word for word as published on their site or otherwise they have pretty much incidentally orchestrated the downfall of Somer by their own disorganisation and then punished Somer for it.
If Somer has been disingenuous with the information and essentially mislead CCP for his own ends then that absolutely must be clearly explained also. |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:49:00 -
[355] - Quote
So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob. Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1964
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:51:00 -
[356] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:i wonder if every CCP member has to consult the legal team before making a forum post. But they are read and judged*) by CCL. Does that count?
*) = Only as far as the forum rules go mind you...
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11058
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:53:00 -
[357] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob.
this is nothing but conjecture and it's wrong
Ohkewl wrote:Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program.
also wrong Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
709
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:54:00 -
[358] - Quote
Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure
Well it's been recently noticed that different parts of CCP might not be on the same page. CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 00:55:00 -
[359] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob.
This is an oversimplification and accuses people at CCP of malicious intent. Something that, you know, isn't smart to accuse people of. If you think there's a flaw with what they did or that there were ulterior motives contact CCP's Internal Affairs team with the evidence.
Ohkewl wrote:Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program.
Having an SA account doesn't automatically qualify you for GoonWaffe/GoonSwarm membership. That said, you don't have to have an SA account to get into GoonSwarm so this is, as most of your posts are, slander and hearsay. I know you didn't get your way, but to attack others in the way you're complaining people are "attacking" Somer is rather hypocritical. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:01:00 -
[360] - Quote
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4361524732815
Thats all I gotta say about this thread at this point |
|
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2909
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:02:00 -
[361] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Load of crap Somer did nothing to hurt the health of the community and you all at CCP know it. Goodjob ******* a service the a huge player base has loved. Unsubed again. Cheers mate. You won't be missed. Very original insult, please try again later.
Actually I was quite polite, and why would I try again later? You won't be here. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
709
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:03:00 -
[362] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote: Agreed. Even if the particular promotion had received clearance from CCP, verifying something was in compliance with the rules does not constitute an official endorsement of it. In other words, "approved by CCP" would never have been appropriate to list on their site without explicit permission to do so.
Which brings to mind a certain ongoing, running joke by a podcast.
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
418
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:07:00 -
[363] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Cryo Kool wrote: Agreed. Even if the particular promotion had received clearance from CCP, verifying something was in compliance with the rules does not constitute an official endorsement of it. In other words, "approved by CCP" would never have been appropriate to list on their site without explicit permission to do so.
Which brings to mind a certain ongoing, running joke by a podcast.
YOU MUST POINT ME TO THIS PODCAST SO I CAN IMMEDIATELY RAISE A CASE WITH CCP.
*ahem* www.crossingzebras.com |
DaOpa
Static Corp
38
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:08:00 -
[364] - Quote
DaOpa wrote:So is this RMT or not, paying a EVE Player ISK to work on stuff / content that has nothing to do with EVE Online>?
Oh I forgot to add in, all that stuff they worked on is monetized via Ads/ Affiliate programs etc...
Yes? No?
Or requires legal team to answer....
Thanks!
DaOpa's EVE Fansite ||Wormhole Database / Wormhole Systems Lookup Tool ||Live Streamer at twitch.tv/daopa |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:14:00 -
[365] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob. This is an oversimplification and accuses people at CCP of malicious intent. Something that, you know, isn't smart to accuse people of. If you think there's a flaw with what they did or that there were ulterior motives contact CCP's Internal Affairs team with the evidence. CCP lost all its credibility when they said, oh Somer had permission from Ms Y but that doesnt count, he needed permission from Mr X. Ohkewl wrote:Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. Having an SA account doesn't automatically qualify you for GoonWaffe/GoonSwarm membership. That said, you don't have to have an SA account to get into GoonSwarm so this is, as most of your posts are, slander and hearsay. I know you didn't get your way, but to attack others in the way you're complaining people are "attacking" Somer is rather hypocritical.
I'm only wrong when none of the hatespewing goons have a SA account. That some of them dont, is irrelevent. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:17:00 -
[366] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob. This is an oversimplification and accuses people at CCP of malicious intent. Something that, you know, isn't smart to accuse people of. If you think there's a flaw with what they did or that there were ulterior motives contact CCP's Internal Affairs team with the evidence. CCP lost all its credibility when they said, oh Somer had permission from Ms Y but that doesnt count, he needed permission from Mr X. Ohkewl wrote:Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. Having an SA account doesn't automatically qualify you for GoonWaffe/GoonSwarm membership. That said, you don't have to have an SA account to get into GoonSwarm so this is, as most of your posts are, slander and hearsay. I know you didn't get your way, but to attack others in the way you're complaining people are "attacking" Somer is rather hypocritical. I'm only wrong when none of the hatespewing goons have a SA account. That some of them dont, is irrelevent.
So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!? |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2909
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:17:00 -
[367] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob. This is an oversimplification and accuses people at CCP of malicious intent. Something that, you know, isn't smart to accuse people of. If you think there's a flaw with what they did or that there were ulterior motives contact CCP's Internal Affairs team with the evidence. CCP lost all its credibility when they said, oh Somer had permission from Ms Y but that doesnt count, he needed permission from Mr X. Ohkewl wrote:Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. Having an SA account doesn't automatically qualify you for GoonWaffe/GoonSwarm membership. That said, you don't have to have an SA account to get into GoonSwarm so this is, as most of your posts are, slander and hearsay. I know you didn't get your way, but to attack others in the way you're complaining people are "attacking" Somer is rather hypocritical. I'm only wrong when none of the hatespewing goons have a SA account. That some of them dont, is irrelevent.
Actually, there are a fair few people on SA that don't play EVE, and so aren't in Goonswarm. So, your tinfoil hattery aside, there's no real connection between the two. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11060
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:18:00 -
[368] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:I'm only wrong when none of the hatespewing goons have a SA account. That some of them dont, is irrelevent.
goonwaffe wasn't designed around having people join SA in order to join goonwaffe
there's also zero affiliation between goonwaffe and SA beyond the fact that its core membership are SA members
something awful is a forum with 180,000+ members and goonwaffe is a corp with 4,000 characters, half of which are alts and maybe a quarter of which actually joined from SA Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
96
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:20:00 -
[369] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:I'm curious how Somer is able to return items and ISK if all of his accounts have been banned. ffs.. it has been answered so many times. Somer personally didnt do all the transfer of winnings and isk, she had people who did it for her. and they can still do so! by the hate of Michael why can't people read a little before asking the same frakking question over and over. *facedesks so hard* CCP: well done. Two thumbs up in how you handled this. Now go have a beer and some sleep, perhaps some hot man on man on woman **** or something to unwind.. I.. know I will ^^ Not all of us have your stamina for reading endless pages of bull ****, psychobabble, and highly emotional nerds. But thank you for proving how much smarter than me you are by answering my question. To answer your question, people who think they're smarter than me will answer my question, so I don't need to read. In a way, that's EVE in a nutshell.
It's odd that all of these "helpers" are so helpful. I wonder if there was any arm twisting. Or other disincentives.
And I must say, this is the first time I've ever seen CCP manage a crisis in such a short period of time. It's refreshing. It might even be a good sign. Now if they could only get their corporate procedures in order to avoid these incidents in the first place. Maybe they should consider promoting Falcon and friends. They seem to have an inkling.
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:20:00 -
[370] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote: So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!?
No, people for a SomethingAwful.com account which has been a thing long before EVE was around. Having said account doesn't mean you automatically have access to GSF as an EVE player nor are you obligated to join and not all of GSF's members are from SA. Though really through the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance, I'll probably find out having a YouTube account in which I make monetized EVE videos is somehow illegal in your mind despite CCP signing off on it. Strap yourselves in boys, ten more pages of crying about Goons. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2909
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:23:00 -
[371] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!?
No, people for a SomethingAwful.com account. Having said account doesn't mean you automatically have access to GSF as an EVE player. Though really the cognitive dissonance being put on display you'll somehow claim it's an RMT scheme so might as well just watch you act like a fool for another ten or so pages.
Oh. Now I feel bad for reporting the post for rumor mongering. Sorry for that man. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:25:00 -
[372] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!?
No, people for a SomethingAwful.com account which has been a thing long before EVE was around. Having said account doesn't mean you automatically have access to GSF as an EVE player nor are you obligated to join and not all of GSF's members are from SA. Though really through the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance, I'll probably find out having a YouTube account in which I make monetized EVE videos is somehow illegal in your mind despite CCP signing off on it. Strap yourselves in boys, ten more pages of crying about Goons.
Having people pay real life money for any service or product is by definition RMT just cause they may get special services unrelated to EvE doesn't matter. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:28:00 -
[373] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!?
No, people for a SomethingAwful.com account which has been a thing long before EVE was around. Having said account doesn't mean you automatically have access to GSF as an EVE player nor are you obligated to join and not all of GSF's members are from SA. Though really through the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance, I'll probably find out having a YouTube account in which I make monetized EVE videos is somehow illegal in your mind despite CCP signing off on it. Strap yourselves in boys, ten more pages of crying about Goons. Having people pay real life money for any service or product is by definition RMT just cause they may get special services unrelated to EvE doesn't matter.
Cool, report it to CCP then as RMT and outline why. I look forward to seeing the results. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:28:00 -
[374] - Quote
Considering its goons online probably nothing and already did report it thanks |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:29:00 -
[375] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Ohkewl wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob. This is an oversimplification and accuses people at CCP of malicious intent. Something that, you know, isn't smart to accuse people of. If you think there's a flaw with what they did or that there were ulterior motives contact CCP's Internal Affairs team with the evidence. CCP lost all its credibility when they said, oh Somer had permission from Ms Y but that doesnt count, he needed permission from Mr X. Ohkewl wrote:Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. Having an SA account doesn't automatically qualify you for GoonWaffe/GoonSwarm membership. That said, you don't have to have an SA account to get into GoonSwarm so this is, as most of your posts are, slander and hearsay. I know you didn't get your way, but to attack others in the way you're complaining people are "attacking" Somer is rather hypocritical. I'm only wrong when none of the hatespewing goons have a SA account. That some of them dont, is irrelevent. Actually, there are a fair few people on SA that don't play EVE, and so aren't in Goonswarm. So, your tinfoil hattery aside, there's no real connection between the two.
And again thats irrelevent. |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:29:00 -
[376] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob. This is an oversimplification and accuses people at CCP of malicious intent. Something that, you know, isn't smart to accuse people of. If you think there's a flaw with what they did or that there were ulterior motives contact CCP's Internal Affairs team with the evidence. CCP lost all its credibility when they said, oh Somer had permission from Ms Y but that doesnt count, he needed permission from Mr X. Ohkewl wrote:Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. Having an SA account doesn't automatically qualify you for GoonWaffe/GoonSwarm membership. That said, you don't have to have an SA account to get into GoonSwarm so this is, as most of your posts are, slander and hearsay. I know you didn't get your way, but to attack others in the way you're complaining people are "attacking" Somer is rather hypocritical. I'm only wrong when none of the hatespewing goons have a SA account. That some of them dont, is irrelevent. I do not spew hate sir. I only spew how irrelevant to the game YOU are sir. |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:31:00 -
[377] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!?
No, people for a SomethingAwful.com account which has been a thing long before EVE was around. Having said account doesn't mean you automatically have access to GSF as an EVE player nor are you obligated to join and not all of GSF's members are from SA. Though really through the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance, I'll probably find out having a YouTube account in which I make monetized EVE videos is somehow illegal in your mind despite CCP signing off on it. Strap yourselves in boys, ten more pages of crying about Goons. Having people pay real life money for any service or product is by definition RMT just cause they may get special services unrelated to EvE doesn't matter. Cool, report it to CCP then as RMT and outline why. I look forward to seeing the results.
If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
|
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
709
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:33:00 -
[378] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Cryo Kool wrote: Agreed. Even if the particular promotion had received clearance from CCP, verifying something was in compliance with the rules does not constitute an official endorsement of it. In other words, "approved by CCP" would never have been appropriate to list on their site without explicit permission to do so.
Which brings to mind a certain ongoing, running joke by a podcast. YOU MUST POINT ME TO THIS PODCAST SO I CAN IMMEDIATELY RAISE A CASE WITH CCP. *ahem*
lol
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
Avaelica Kuershin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:33:00 -
[379] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!?
No, people for a SomethingAwful.com account which has been a thing long before EVE was around. Having said account doesn't mean you automatically have access to GSF as an EVE player nor are you obligated to join and not all of GSF's members are from SA. Though really through the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance, I'll probably find out having a YouTube account in which I make monetized EVE videos is somehow illegal in your mind despite CCP signing off on it. Strap yourselves in boys, ten more pages of crying about Goons. Having people pay real life money for any service or product is by definition RMT just cause they may get special services unrelated to EvE doesn't matter.
You are grasping at straws in your irrational dislike of Goonswarm and that reflects in your posts. Recall CCP Falcon's words. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11060
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:35:00 -
[380] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Having people pay real life money for any service or product is by definition RMT just cause they may get special services unrelated to EvE doesn't matter.
I bought a bag of chips
i suppose that is real money trading by definition Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:36:00 -
[381] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Considering its goons online probably nothing and already did report it thanks
OK, so you're gonna ***** and moan while making accusations without actually doing anything about it. Sounds like a good use of your time.
Ohkewl wrote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
OK, so you're also making excuses for not doing anything. Gotcha, well I hear World of Warcraft is getting an expansion in a couple of weeks you could try that. Or maybe Star Citizen, I hear that's a good game. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:43:00 -
[382] - Quote
Oh those wacky goons, is there no conspiracy theory they aren't perfect for? |
Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
106
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:44:00 -
[383] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!?
No, people for a SomethingAwful.com account which has been a thing long before EVE was around. Having said account doesn't mean you automatically have access to GSF as an EVE player nor are you obligated to join and not all of GSF's members are from SA. Though really through the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance, I'll probably find out having a YouTube account in which I make monetized EVE videos is somehow illegal in your mind despite CCP signing off on it. Strap yourselves in boys, ten more pages of crying about Goons. Having people pay real life money for any service or product is by definition RMT just cause they may get special services unrelated to EvE doesn't matter.
You're a real tool. You should probably quit while you're still ahead of the r'tard gene |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23984
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:46:00 -
[384] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors who in return sell to those that are space poor. CCP was making money from this full circle and closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense. Same excuse has been made for every bot/RMT ban ever. It doesn't change the fact that they by far prefer to get rid of botters, RMTers, and other disruptive customers than let people arbitrarily break the rules without repercussion. They also didn't close Somer down.
Quote:let TMC stay up with its RMT practices What RMT practices are those? And why haven't you reported them to CCP?
DaOpa wrote:So is this RMT or not, paying a EVE Player ISK to work on stuff / content that has nothing to do with EVE Online>? No. The answer to that has been GÇ£noGÇ¥ since roughly forever and there's nothing to suggest that it will change any time soon.
Ohkewl wrote:Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. Just one problem: guys that try to pay $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program invariably fail to get into said corp because paying $10 doesn't help anyone get in.
Quote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you. Quite the opposite. Somer had a huge mob behind him, and he didn't manage to get away with anything in spite of that. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11257
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:46:00 -
[385] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. I paid nothing and my corp has essentially the same program. Jelly? Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:47:00 -
[386] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Considering its goons online probably nothing and already did report it thanks OK, so you're gonna ***** and moan while making accusations without actually doing anything about it. Sounds like a good use of your time. Ohkewl wrote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
OK, so you're also making excuses for not doing anything. Gotcha, well I hear World of Warcraft is getting an expansion in a couple of weeks you could try that. Or maybe Star Citizen, I hear that's a good game.
1 last question, why didnt you ask anyone for proof in the previous thread where all the post were made screaming for Somer's head without any proof? All sorts of accusations were made, no proof was needed. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5857
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:48:00 -
[387] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ohkewl wrote:I'm only wrong when none of the hatespewing goons have a SA account. That some of them dont, is irrelevent. goonwaffe wasn't designed around having people join SA in order to join goonwaffe there's also zero affiliation between goonwaffe and SA beyond the fact that its core membership are SA members something awful is a forum with 180,000+ members and goonwaffe is a corp with 4,000 characters, half of which are alts and maybe a quarter of which actually joined from SA
180,000+ members? At $10 a pop?
Good Christ in heaven! Why wasn't it me that thought up that site?
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23984
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:51:00 -
[388] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:180,000+ members? At $10 a pop?
Good Christ in heaven! Why wasn't it me that thought up that site? You're forgetting unban/double account payments, platinum upgrades, avatar upgrades, avatar defacements, archive upgrades, ad-free upgradesGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
504
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:51:00 -
[389] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:Oh those wacky goons, is there no conspiracy theory they aren't perfect for?
Don't act like you don't like it.
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. I paid nothing and my corp has essentially the same program. Jelly?
Do you also get to enjoy the sensation of being reviled on a cellular level for your corp tags? I do. |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
96
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 01:54:00 -
[390] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:180,000+ members? At $10 a pop?
Good Christ in heaven! Why wasn't it me that thought up that site? You're forgetting unban/double account payments, platinum upgrades, avatar upgrades, avatar defacements, archive upgrades, ad-free upgradesGǪ Gooooon! |
|
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:01:00 -
[391] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:Tippia wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:180,000+ members? At $10 a pop?
Good Christ in heaven! Why wasn't it me that thought up that site? You're forgetting unban/double account payments, platinum upgrades, avatar upgrades, avatar defacements, archive upgrades, ad-free upgradesGǪ Gooooon! I like this man he gets us at our true core. |
Slicr
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:02:00 -
[392] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Told ya don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. Nice way to start a post - get on everybody's good side lol.
Mike Azariah wrote: Not being swept under the rug, not being waited out in hopes that it goes away. Hopefully this is a new tactic and not a once in a lifetime
Mike Azariah wrote: Of course into each life some Rain will fall and nobody is totally good or totally evil. We lost a player today. One who was admired for his genius and innovation in making a HUGE pile of isk. Not to mention what he has done for CCP
Quote: What you can take away from this.
1) Nobody in Eve is too big to fail 2) There be a new sheriff in town 3) Publishing communications with CCP is a dangerous step 5) Mike like to mess with OCD folks 6) When one witch is burnt people start looking around for something else to light 7) The polite folks got a lot more answers from Falcon than the screamers (unless you LIKE being called 50 shades of dumb)
m 1. Do not believe that comment 2.Too funny to comment 3. According to the rules, bannable 4. I agree 100% with this 5. Think we will chalk this comment up to an attempt at humour. 6. Another attempt at humour - I know I do not buy the story that he acted alone. 7. Hmm trying to think of another word for "polite" wait I think I can ... nope
I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11060
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:05:00 -
[393] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:180,000+ members? At $10 a pop?
Good Christ in heaven! Why wasn't it me that thought up that site? You're forgetting unban/double account payments, platinum upgrades, avatar upgrades, avatar defacements, archive upgrades, ad-free upgradesGǪ
Also parachute accounts, parachutes for your parachute accounts, plat for those accounts, and so on Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:07:00 -
[394] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Considering its goons online probably nothing and already did report it thanks OK, so you're gonna ***** and moan while making accusations without actually doing anything about it. Sounds like a good use of your time. Ohkewl wrote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
OK, so you're also making excuses for not doing anything. Gotcha, well I hear World of Warcraft is getting an expansion in a couple of weeks you could try that. Or maybe Star Citizen, I hear that's a good game. 1 last question, why didnt you ask anyone for proof in the previous thread where all the post were made screaming for Somer's head without any proof? All sorts of accusations were made, no proof was needed.
Because by the time I entered that thread, Somer had posted his correspondence with CCP's VP of Global Sales and his Affiliate proposal. I'm sorry you missed that part of the facts. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1047
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:08:00 -
[395] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!? I have to give you props, man. Even after getting sickly burned by CCP Falcon for being dumb you continue to up your game by being even dumber.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23984
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:10:00 -
[396] - Quote
Andski wrote:Tippia wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:180,000+ members? At $10 a pop?
Good Christ in heaven! Why wasn't it me that thought up that site? You're forgetting unban/double account payments, platinum upgrades, avatar upgrades, avatar defacements, archive upgrades, ad-free upgradesGǪ Also parachute accounts, parachutes for your parachute accounts, plat for those accounts, and so on In short, =ƒÆ¦=ƒÆ¦=ƒÆ¦=ƒÆ¦=ƒÆ¦=ƒÆ¦=ƒÆ¦=ƒÆ¦GǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Geenemen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:12:00 -
[397] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote: I'm only wrong when none of the hatespewing goons have a SA account. That some of them dont, is irrelevent.
Please stop talking. |
Brahan Seer
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
19
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:13:00 -
[398] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!? I have to give you props, man. Even after getting sickly burned by CCP Falcon for being dumb you continue to up your game by being even dumber.
You see those things called question marks? They state I am asking a question and he basically just said some members of goons are SA members. to be a SA member you need to pay $10 if you do pay the 10 bucks and get into goons you get a 120% SRP. If I am misinterpreting that than say so. Up to this point its only been confirmed which is ******* RMT. If I am mistaken say so instead of acting like children as per usual |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
418
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:17:00 -
[399] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Rhes wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!? I have to give you props, man. Even after getting sickly burned by CCP Falcon for being dumb you continue to up your game by being even dumber. You see those things called question marks? They state I am asking a question and he basically just said some members of goons are SA members. to be a SA member you need to pay $10 if you do pay the 10 bucks and get into goons you get a 120% SRP. If I am misinterpreting that than say so. Up to this point its only been confirmed which is ******* RMT. If I am mistaken say so instead of acting like children as per usual
I love you. You are the kind of person that makes the Eve forums special.
Keep on keeping' on soldier! www.crossingzebras.com |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23984
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:17:00 -
[400] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:You see those things called question marks? They state I am asking a question and he basically just said some members of goons are SA members. to be a SA member you need to pay $10 if you do pay the 10 bucks and get into goons you get a 120% SRP. If I am misinterpreting that than say so. Up to this point its only been confirmed which is ******* RMT. If I am mistaken say so instead of acting like children as per usual The answer to your first question is no. This makes your second question irrelevant.
Better? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11063
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:18:00 -
[401] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:You see those things called question marks? They state I am asking a question and he basically just said some members of goons are SA members. to be a SA member you need to pay $10 if you do pay the 10 bucks and get into goons you get a 120% SRP. If I am misinterpreting that than say so. Up to this point its only been confirmed which is ******* RMT. If I am mistaken say so instead of acting like children as per usual
you're not paying goonwaffe to get into goonwaffe, you're paying something awful to join something awful
there is also no guarantee, implicit or explicit, that you will get into goonwaffe solely by virtue of having an SA account
there is also no flow of money between something awful and anyone in goonwaffe
this is like saying that joining van diemen's demise requires you to move to australia and rent/buy a home there, and it is therefore RMT
it's pretty simple: you're not a goon, so you can't join goonwaffe, and you're not australian, so you can't join van diemen's demise Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:20:00 -
[402] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Rhes wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!? I have to give you props, man. Even after getting sickly burned by CCP Falcon for being dumb you continue to up your game by being even dumber. You see those things called question marks? They state I am asking a question and he basically just said some members of goons are SA members. to be a SA member you need to pay $10 if you do pay the 10 bucks and get into goons you get a 120% SRP. If I am misinterpreting that than say so. Up to this point its only been confirmed which is ******* RMT. If I am mistaken say so instead of acting like children as per usual so SA has been around for a long time. Just because you pay $10 to get into the forums does not mean you get into goons in eve online. SA has a great area personally I like checking for cooking recipes. I played eve longer than I have had an SA account. my corp also gets 200% reimbursment. So better than GoonWaffe. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23984
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:20:00 -
[403] - Quote
e: agh! forums! GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Slicr
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:23:00 -
[404] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:"We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value." well actualy you do you did it with Plexes, So there is presidence for this action beeing taken *edited* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=336609feels dumb i have tell ccp what ccp has done but sure I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX.
Can you please explain more by what you mean by this comparison?
Plex can be bought with in-game isk or out of game real money. If Plex is bought in-game, then it has been paid for down the line with real money at some point. All in game items (rare ships for example) can be bought with isk, Plex, and/or other in-game items or any combination of the 3 methods. Another method of course is free.
So in essence, real money has the ability to purchase anything in the game.
I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11063
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:24:00 -
[405] - Quote
joining a russian alliance requires that you speak russian
learning to speak russian costs money
i bet the russian alliances get a kickback from russian language instructors and rosetta stone, i know i'll find the evidence to out their little RMT scheme
this is brahan seer's impeccable chain of thought Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:27:00 -
[406] - Quote
Andski wrote:joining a russian alliance requires that you speak russian
learning to speak russian costs money
i bet the russian alliances get a kickback from russian language instructors and rosetta stone, i know i'll find the evidence to out their little RMT scheme
this is brahan seer's impeccable chain of thought I see what he is getting at now HOW could i have missed this train of thought AHHHHHH. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23984
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:31:00 -
[407] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Can you please explain more by what you mean by this comparison? He means that a call option for 30 days of subscription time (which is what a PLEX actually is), paid for using real cash, is a different kettle of fish compared to in-game assets such as ISK and ships. One shows up in the accountants' spread sheets as liabilities, so there's a good reason to get those off the books GÇö if it also happens to moderate a particularly crazy part of the in-game economy, then that's a neat side-effect.
Quote:Plex can be bought with in-game isk or out of game real money. If Plex is bought in-game, then it has been paid for down the line with real money at some point. All in game items (rare ships for example) can be bought with isk, Plex, and/or other in-game items or any combination of the 3 methods. Another method of course is free.
So in essence, real money has the ability to purchase anything in the game. No. In essence, real money has the ability to purchase a PLEX, period (well, unless you want to break the EULA and get banned, that is), and you can only do that trade with CCP.
If you have a PLEX, you can trade it against other in-game assets, most notably ISK. But you can't skip that crucial step without risking your account GÇö going directly from cash to any other in-game assets (or going from cash to PLEX without going through CCP) is strictly prohibited. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11257
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:32:00 -
[408] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program. I paid nothing and my corp has essentially the same program. Jelly? Do you also get to enjoy the sensation of being reviled on a cellular level for your corp tags? I do. I did get a message from someone in Northern Associates who was upset that my corp allows non-Serbians. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11257
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:34:00 -
[409] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
10,058 votes wasn't enough to keep Mittens on the CSM. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Hawkr Trimodian
E.O.O-S Legatus T.I.M.E. Holdings Zero Hour Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:40:00 -
[410] - Quote
So, Just thought I would jump in with my two cents.
I would bet that most of the assets held by Somer Blink (rare ships, tech II BPO's and such) are held by the corp. Somer is Banned not the corp, so Andrev Nox has now become one of the richest people in Eve. I would bet that he has access to all Somer assets.
Kinda think the entire Somer leadership should have experienced the same ban as the founder, this was not the action of a single person but a small group of a couple people who ran the Somer show.
The second thing......Now we know why the Volcanoe in Iceland erupted this week |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11066
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:43:00 -
[411] - Quote
Hawkr Trimodian wrote:So, Just thought I would jump in with my two cents. I would bet that most of the assets held by Somer Blink (rare ships, tech II BPO's and such) are held by the corp. Somer is Banned not the corp, so Andrev Nox has now become one of the richest people in Eve. I would bet that he has access to all Somer assets. Kinda think the entire Somer leadership should have experienced the same ban as the founder, this was not the action of a single person but a small group of a couple people who ran the Somer show. The second thing......Now we know why the Volcanoe in Iceland erupted this week
yeah i don't doubt that his second in command was just as involved in this arrangement as somer himself
whatever, give them enough rope Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Hava Heart
SOMER Blink Cognitive Development
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:53:00 -
[412] - Quote
I am not going to join the game of he said she said. I am just going to say my peace. All I want to do is thank all those that supported Somer in this. Everybody that played Somer blink in the last 6 months have had their balances refunded. Please no more deposits...and accept outstanding contracts before they expire.
I have worked for Somer blink for over 9 months and have seen nothing but kindness and generosity from Somer. I am deeply saddened by this witch hunt. It's over let it go. To all those people that Somer sponsored over the years, I am sorry for your loss. And no, none of the staff is stealing what is left in corp hangers and wallet. We have too much respect for Somer. All the staff are wonderful people from all over New Eden and many different corps. We area family even if our mains are in an enemy corp. |
Lady Areola Fappington
2152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 02:59:00 -
[413] - Quote
I love it when the crazy people think somethingawful is an offshoot of Goonswarm, rather than vice versa.
I mean, here's some crazy conspiracy for you...there are member of the somethingawful.com forums (Goons), who are not members of GSF!
Handing Lowtax your :tenbux: in order to become one of the Chosen People doesn't get you into GoonSwarm. Nor does Goonswarm see any of that cash.
Hell, if Lowtax wanted, he could pretty much cut goonswarm as an entity off. Kentucky Derby losers are not turned into Ikea meatballs. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev did not accidentally blow up vowels in his own name. The chupacabra does not deliver presents on Cinco De Mayo. Anytime minutes donGÇÖt let you call the future. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3726
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:00:00 -
[414] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I am not going to join the game of he said she said. I am just going to say my peace. All I want to do is thank all those that supported Somer in this. Everybody that played Somer blink in the last 6 months have had their balances refunded. Please no more deposits...and accept outstanding contracts before they expire.
I have worked for Somer blink for over 9 months and have seen nothing but kindness and generosity from Somer. I am deeply saddened by this witch hunt. It's over let it go. To all those people that Somer sponsored over the years, I am sorry for your loss. And no, none of the staff is stealing what is left in corp hangers and wallet. We have too much respect for Somer. All the staff are wonderful people from all over New Eden and many different corps. We are a family even if our mains are in an enemy corp.
Sorry you work for a crook. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:01:00 -
[415] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I am not going to join the game of he said she said. I am just going to say my peace. All I want to do is thank all those that supported Somer in this. Everybody that played Somer blink in the last 6 months have had their balances refunded. Please no more deposits...and accept outstanding contracts before they expire.
I have worked for Somer blink for over 9 months and have seen nothing but kindness and generosity from Somer. I am deeply saddened by this witch hunt. It's over let it go. To all those people that Somer sponsored over the years, I am sorry for your loss. And no, none of the staff is stealing what is left in corp hangers and wallet. We have too much respect for Somer. All the staff are wonderful people from all over New Eden and many different corps. We are a family even if our mains are in an enemy corp. You know of course he is going to be a nice kind loving person to the people he needs to do his work for him. I mean come on you don't do stupid things yourself you get other people to trust you then rope them in. Then make them do all the work for you. While you role in the $$$$. |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:02:00 -
[416] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I am not going to join the game of he said she said. I am just going to say my peace. All I want to do is thank all those that supported Somer in this. Everybody that played Somer blink in the last 6 months and have more than 5million isk deposited, had their balances refunded. We are still fiing claims for wins. Please no more deposits...and accept outstanding contracts before they expire.
I have worked for Somer blink for over 9 months and have seen nothing but kindness and generosity from Somer. I am deeply saddened by this witch hunt. It's over let it go. To all those people that Somer sponsored over the years, I am sorry for your loss. And no, none of the staff is stealing what is left in corp hangers and wallet. We have too much respect for Somer. All the staff are wonderful people from all over New Eden and many different corps. We are a family even if our mains are in an enemy corp.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call the Bernie Madoff defense. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
616
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:04:00 -
[417] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Okay... so, lets get this started! Some answers... Frantico wrote:I get why he got banned. BUT with banning him you also banned almost 30% of all the Unique ships in eve alliance turney ships of old and other ships that just dont exist anywhere else its alot of history that has been in 1 persons assets. for a game that is built around its rich history.
so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.
whatever you choose to do CCP dont ruin the eve History by removing these ships from the game We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value. Anya Klibor wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice. You are all types of dumb. Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb.
This is full of so much win. And I finally haz a new sig!
So, can I pay you some ISK for creating my signature, or is that . . . .
*ducks*
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1206
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:05:00 -
[418] - Quote
Handled quickly, professionally, as openly as the situation allows... wait, which company do you work for again? ;-)
Well done all around. I hope this is the new normal. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
420
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:06:00 -
[419] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I am not going to join the game of he said she said. I am just going to say my peace. All I want to do is thank all those that supported Somer in this. Everybody that played Somer blink in the last 6 months and have more than 5million isk deposited, had their balances refunded. We are still fiing claims for wins. Please no more deposits...and accept outstanding contracts before they expire.
I have worked for Somer blink for over 9 months and have seen nothing but kindness and generosity from Somer. I am deeply saddened by this witch hunt. It's over let it go. To all those people that Somer sponsored over the years, I am sorry for your loss. And no, none of the staff is stealing what is left in corp hangers and wallet. We have too much respect for Somer. All the staff are wonderful people from all over New Eden and many different corps. We are a family even if our mains are in an enemy corp.
This was beautiful. I had a wee cry. I'm going back to CCP to see if we can't reverse this heinous and misjudged decision for your family. www.crossingzebras.com |
Hawkr Trimodian
E.O.O-S Legatus T.I.M.E. Holdings Zero Hour Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:13:00 -
[420] - Quote
And What about that Volcano. I am convinced this is the gods being offended by the unfair Treatment of Somer........
A huge volcano in Iceland may be getting ready to erupt:
[Update, Aug. 20, 2014: Iceland's National Crisis Coordination Center has been activated, and a large uninhabited area surrounding the volcano has been evacuated. The Icelandic Met Office reports that about 1,000 small earthquakes occurred near the volcano on Tuesday. Also on Tuesday, Iceland's Civil Protection raised the nation's threat level from Uncertainty Phase to Alert Phase.] |
|
Hava Heart
SOMER Blink Cognitive Development
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:15:00 -
[421] - Quote
I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11069
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:17:00 -
[422] - Quote
i have plenty of examples of the "professionalism" of blink staff if you want to talk about that Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Mara Tessidar
Dark Star Safari Goonswarm Federation
1142
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:18:00 -
[423] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
|
Wormhole Wormholes
Wormholes WH
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:20:00 -
[424] - Quote
The best of CSM is on page 21, you know the saying it takes one to know one.
But who am I, all I know is that I know nothing.
|
Matthew Lorentz
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:20:00 -
[425] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
10,058 votes wasn't enough to keep Mittens on the CSM.
Mittens tried to get someone to commit suicide.
@ CCP
Good Job and nice to see you guys working with the community |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
505
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:21:00 -
[426] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves.
I'm impressed with your ability to nail yourself to your cross by yourself. How did you do that?
Also, if you feel aggrieved by the CSM's response to your martyrdom, you should go read some of the responses to stuff like this from previous members. |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:21:00 -
[427] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves.
That's right, throw yourself up on that cross. |
Matthew Lorentz
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:22:00 -
[428] - Quote
Wormhole Wormholes wrote:
The best of CSM is on page 21, you know the saying it takes one to know one.
But who am I, all I know is that I know nothing.
They have done nothing wrong |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3727
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:23:00 -
[429] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves.
You are allowed your opinion. And so am I. And my opinion is that you worked for a crook, and deserve condolences. I'm not really sure why you're so uptight over my offering of them. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
521
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:23:00 -
[430] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves.
I had pretty much the same reaction to the CSM replies. The whole affair felt pretty righteously handled until this page of the thread when the venom became so clear on the part of the really classy guys who responded to the earlier post. Bernie Madoff, really? That's a pretty strange comparison. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1047
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:25:00 -
[431] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. Just when the thread was starting to get boring...
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
521
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:25:00 -
[432] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. You are allowed your opinion. And so am I. And my opinion is that you worked for a crook, and deserve condolences. I'm not really sure why you're so uptight over my offering of them.
I think you're pretty sure why you got the reaction you did. Very classy from a CSM rep. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
616
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:26:00 -
[433] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Honestly, I've never read fifty shades of gray, but I agree. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. Ice Burn.
I was thinking Falcon Punch. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
420
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:26:00 -
[434] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves.
Please do not group me with those horrible Goons. As I said before, I am here for you in your hour of need. We can turn this thing around. www.crossingzebras.com |
GOB the Magician
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:27:00 -
[435] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I bid you good luck and fair chance in your quest for professionalism, respect, and honor in these dark days that have unjustly befallen you & yours. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:28:00 -
[436] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:mynnna wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. You are allowed your opinion. And so am I. And my opinion is that you worked for a crook, and deserve condolences. I'm not really sure why you're so uptight over my offering of them. I think you're pretty sure why you got the reaction you did. Very classy from a CSM rep. You can't really expect anything better from them, sadly. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3727
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:28:00 -
[437] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:mynnna wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. You are allowed your opinion. And so am I. And my opinion is that you worked for a crook, and deserve condolences. I'm not really sure why you're so uptight over my offering of them. I think you're pretty sure why you got the reaction you did. Very classy from a CSM rep.
I like to think so, yes. I'm sure these are very trying times for Hava Heart, and here the thread is packed with people celebrating. Don't you think it's proper that someone recognize his hardships? Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:31:00 -
[438] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I had pretty much the same reaction to the CSM replies. The whole affair felt pretty righteously handled until this page of the thread when the venom became so clear on the part of the really classy guys who responded to the earlier post. Bernie Madoff, really? That's a pretty strange comparison.
Perhaps you should look up who Bernie Madoff is, the charities he supported, and how good of a guy he was. The rest of the metaphor should draw itself. |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:33:00 -
[439] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I think the CSM members are allowed to speak their mind also. This idea swings both ways you get to speak your mind so do they. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:34:00 -
[440] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I had pretty much the same reaction to the CSM replies. The whole affair felt pretty righteously handled until this page of the thread when the venom became so clear on the part of the really classy guys who responded to the earlier post. Bernie Madoff, really? That's a pretty strange comparison.
OK, to help the comparison be illustrated for you more I'll make a different comparison.
President Nixon provided money to various charities and numerous other philanthropic services. That didn't stop him from being impeached. There you go. That solved the confusion you were having. If you'd like to learn more, please visit your local library and go to the "History" section and educate yourself. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
Hawkr Trimodian
E.O.O-S Legatus T.I.M.E. Holdings Zero Hour Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:34:00 -
[441] - Quote
HarlyQ wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I think the CSM members are allowed to speak their mind also. This idea swings both ways you get to speak your mind so do they.
Wait are you saying our CSM's swing both ways? |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:36:00 -
[442] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I had pretty much the same reaction to the CSM replies. The whole affair felt pretty righteously handled until this page of the thread when the venom became so clear on the part of the really classy guys who responded to the earlier post. Bernie Madoff, really? That's a pretty strange comparison. Not really bernie is a crook somer is a crook easy.1+1=2 |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2559
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:39:00 -
[443] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. You are allowed your opinion. And so am I. And my opinion is that you worked for a crook, and deserve condolences. I'm not really sure why you're so uptight over my offering of them. Yes, I'm sure they were completely sincere. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11258
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:41:00 -
[444] - Quote
Matthew Lorentz wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
10,058 votes wasn't enough to keep Mittens on the CSM. Mittens tried to get someone to commit suicide. I guess you think speeding is attempted murder, then. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:41:00 -
[445] - Quote
Hawkr Trimodian wrote:HarlyQ wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I think the CSM members are allowed to speak their mind also. This idea swings both ways you get to speak your mind so do they. Wait are you saying our CSM's swing both ways? It is a mystery |
Geenemen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:43:00 -
[446] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:mynnna wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. You are allowed your opinion. And so am I. And my opinion is that you worked for a crook, and deserve condolences. I'm not really sure why you're so uptight over my offering of them. Yes, I'm sure they were completely sincere.
Our condolences are as sincere as you want them to be. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11258
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:43:00 -
[447] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. I think next we should all go after whoever it was that gave you the impression that it wasn't. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
118
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:43:00 -
[448] - Quote
HarlyQ wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I had pretty much the same reaction to the CSM replies. The whole affair felt pretty righteously handled until this page of the thread when the venom became so clear on the part of the really classy guys who responded to the earlier post. Bernie Madoff, really? That's a pretty strange comparison. Not really bernie is a crook somer is a crook easy.1+1=2
You might even say that Somer Madoff with a lot of isk. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3727
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:45:00 -
[449] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:mynnna wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. You are allowed your opinion. And so am I. And my opinion is that you worked for a crook, and deserve condolences. I'm not really sure why you're so uptight over my offering of them. Yes, I'm sure they were completely sincere.
Thank you for your understanding on this. I really do appreciate that some people are able to look past the alliance tag for matters like this. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Geenemen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:46:00 -
[450] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:HarlyQ wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I had pretty much the same reaction to the CSM replies. The whole affair felt pretty righteously handled until this page of the thread when the venom became so clear on the part of the really classy guys who responded to the earlier post. Bernie Madoff, really? That's a pretty strange comparison. Not really bernie is a crook somer is a crook easy.1+1=2 You might even say that Somer Madoff with a lot of isk.
Nothing further can be said on this topic.
|
|
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:47:00 -
[451] - Quote
Geenemen wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:HarlyQ wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I had pretty much the same reaction to the CSM replies. The whole affair felt pretty righteously handled until this page of the thread when the venom became so clear on the part of the really classy guys who responded to the earlier post. Bernie Madoff, really? That's a pretty strange comparison. Not really bernie is a crook somer is a crook easy.1+1=2 You might even say that Somer Madoff with a lot of isk. Nothing further can be said on this topic. agreed |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23986
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:47:00 -
[452] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:You might even say that Somer Madoff with a lot of isk. You could, but we'd probably have to hunt you down and slap you for doing so. Ugh! GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:47:00 -
[453] - Quote
I demand professionalism in my unpaid volunteer internet spaceship councilmen |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:47:00 -
[454] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Matthew Lorentz wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ohkewl wrote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
10,058 votes wasn't enough to keep Mittens on the CSM. Mittens tried to get someone to commit suicide. I guess you think speeding is attempted murder, then. Is that a defense? I can't really tell. Either way it does make him extremely scummy. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5859
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:48:00 -
[455] - Quote
Whoa.
I haven't seen a goon circle jerk on this scale in a long time.
Don't stop now.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Gregor Lachlan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:49:00 -
[456] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:HarlyQ wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I had pretty much the same reaction to the CSM replies. The whole affair felt pretty righteously handled until this page of the thread when the venom became so clear on the part of the really classy guys who responded to the earlier post. Bernie Madoff, really? That's a pretty strange comparison. Not really bernie is a crook somer is a crook easy.1+1=2 You might even say that Somer Madoff with a lot of isk.
:smug: |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2559
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:49:00 -
[457] - Quote
Well I must say that the CSM as a whole has done a great job lately representing the community. A few of them pouncing on the first SOMERblink member on the other hand... not so great. |
Hawkr Trimodian
E.O.O-S Legatus T.I.M.E. Holdings Zero Hour Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:51:00 -
[458] - Quote
Man this is so much fun, I think I found a new outlet for my Blink Addiction |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11259
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:53:00 -
[459] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Is that a defense? I can't really tell. Either way it does make him extremely scummy. It's not a defense against what he did, it's a defense against exaggeration of what he did. He didn't try to have anything happen. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11259
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:54:00 -
[460] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Whoa. I haven't seen a goon circle jerk on this scale in a long time. Don't stop now. Mr Epeen The forces of good are allowed to celebrate their victories. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
|
Prawo Jazdy
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:54:00 -
[461] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Rhes wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!? I have to give you props, man. Even after getting sickly burned by CCP Falcon for being dumb you continue to up your game by being even dumber. You see those things called question marks? They state I am asking a question and he basically just said some members of goons are SA members. to be a SA member you need to pay $10 if you do pay the 10 bucks and get into goons you get a 120% SRP. If I am misinterpreting that than say so. Up to this point its only been confirmed which is ******* RMT. If I am mistaken say so instead of acting like children as per usual
Making an assertion then jamming a bunch of question marks at the end of it does not somehow mysteriously imbue your statement with the other properties of a question, it just makes you look like somebody who can't type.
Quit while you're ahead, Dinsdale. |
Hibbie
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:56:00 -
[462] - Quote
Hawkr Trimodian wrote: Wait are you saying our CSM's swing both ways?
I can confirm that certain members of the CSM swing in non-binary ways. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:56:00 -
[463] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Is that a defense? I can't really tell. Either way it does make him extremely scummy. It's not a defense against what he did, it's a defense against exaggeration of what he did. He didn't try to have anything happen. Yeah actually he did. That's why he's not CSM. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11260
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 03:59:00 -
[464] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Is that a defense? I can't really tell. Either way it does make him extremely scummy. It's not a defense against what he did, it's a defense against exaggeration of what he did. He didn't try to have anything happen. Yeah actually he did. That's why he's not CSM. The punishment would have been a lot more severe if he had. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:03:00 -
[465] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Is that a defense? I can't really tell. Either way it does make him extremely scummy. It's not a defense against what he did, it's a defense against exaggeration of what he did. He didn't try to have anything happen. Yeah actually he did. That's why he's not CSM. The punishment would have been a lot more severe if he had. Are you trying to argue that he didn't highlight a player struggling with depression and encourage the community to send said player mail in the hopes he'd kill himself?
Your argument being that if he did do this he'd been punished more harshly?
Sounds like he should have been punished more harshly. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11260
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:07:00 -
[466] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Is that a defense? I can't really tell. Either way it does make him extremely scummy. It's not a defense against what he did, it's a defense against exaggeration of what he did. He didn't try to have anything happen. Yeah actually he did. That's why he's not CSM. The punishment would have been a lot more severe if he had. Are you trying to argue that he didn't highlight a player struggling with depression and encourage the community to send said player mail in the hopes he'd kill himself? Your argument being that if he did do this he'd been punished more harshly? Sounds like he should have been punished more harshly. No, he made a stupid joke which is not nearly the same on the severity scale as encouragement. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Cameron Freerunner
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
96
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:08:00 -
[467] - Quote
So. Many. Nested. Quotes |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11074
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:09:00 -
[468] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Is that a defense? I can't really tell. Either way it does make him extremely scummy. It's not a defense against what he did, it's a defense against exaggeration of what he did. He didn't try to have anything happen. Yeah actually he did. That's why he's not CSM. The punishment would have been a lot more severe if he had. Are you trying to argue that he didn't highlight a player struggling with depression and encourage the community to send said player mail in the hopes he'd kill himself? Your argument being that if he did do this he'd been punished more harshly? Sounds like he should have been punished more harshly.
if he was, without a doubt, seeking to provoke a player into suicide he would have been permanently banned from the game
what he did do was make a very tasteless joke Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
292
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:09:00 -
[469] - Quote
Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. lol. I remember the 'professionalism' of Somer, Andrev, and the other lapdogs very well.
RIP in ****, Blink |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11074
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:12:00 -
[470] - Quote
i mean really when you use alts to regurgitate the same crap that you've said with your somer characters while being massively rude about it you should stop putting on airs of "professionalism" because you're only making it obvious Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:17:00 -
[471] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: No, he made a stupid joke which is not nearly the same on the severity scale as encouragement.
You have a weird definition of "joke". But hey I guess if you do it jokingly, people in your alliance will be ok with you breaching EULA. He encouraged it, got a slap on the wrist, end of story. |
commander aze
Sub--Zero The Serenity Initiative
56
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:17:00 -
[472] - Quote
I firmly believe there have been mistakes on both sides of this. Somer blink provided content for many and I believe firmly that the content provided was worthwhile.
CCP has little to no business in telling us what we can or cannot do with plex ingame or out. Selling isk is against EULA and we all under stand this. However buying a plex off of a person who bought it from them from a site and exchanging plex for isk in that way is in no way against the EULA. That's CCP's mistake.
Now... Somer blinks posting of communications with CCP staff and other issues do warrant a ban of the client as per breech of the EULA. Stopping the service that thousands have enjoyed out of existence is both silly and stupid.
Not thrilled with how this was handled but then again my bar has been pretty low since catastrophic failure that was the launch of the covert sites..... |
Mrzev
Unlimited Pew Lay Waste.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:19:00 -
[473] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: I don't really count ISK and Assets (meaning incredibly rare ships that are potentially worth hundreds of billions of ISK) as even remotely the same as a stack of PLEX.
If i can buy a PLEX for 800 Mill , a stack of 10 would be worth 8 Bill. If a rare ship (or all) could be sold for 400 Billion then that's 500 PLEXs. That is a big stack.
In any case, it seems like it's time for another RACI Review Meeting for CCP. Falcon (and the CCP), you did an awesome job handling this situation. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:19:00 -
[474] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Is that a defense? I can't really tell. Either way it does make him extremely scummy. It's not a defense against what he did, it's a defense against exaggeration of what he did. He didn't try to have anything happen. Yeah actually he did. That's why he's not CSM. The punishment would have been a lot more severe if he had. Are you trying to argue that he didn't highlight a player struggling with depression and encourage the community to send said player mail in the hopes he'd kill himself? Your argument being that if he did do this he'd been punished more harshly? Sounds like he should have been punished more harshly.
Ah, we've reached this point of an EVE thread. Good to see the classics never die. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:21:00 -
[475] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:So. Many. Nested. Quotes So. Many. Nested. Quotes So. Many. Nested. Quotes So. Many. Nested. Quotes So. Many. Nested. Quotes LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11075
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:21:00 -
[476] - Quote
next up, people dig up the specter of the t20 scandal
maybe some boot.ini for flavor Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:24:00 -
[477] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:So as to appease the people accusing sites like CrossignZebras.com, EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. as well as tossing in EVE focused YouTube channels.
Is the promotion of using an Amazon referral link to buy PLEX, which would give a small percentage based kickback to the referrer a violation of any of CCP's policies? For example, I run the YouTube channel YouTube.com/UbaStij and after doing a video on say "How To Align Like A Pro" I mention there is an Amazon link in the description which leads to Amazon's store to buy a PLEX. I state "buying a PLEX through this Amazon link will help keep me operating this service for you the consumer." Is that permitted?
What if I operated the channel with several underlings who were compensated for their contributions in ISK and not through real money? Is it still permitted to promote purchasing through our Amazon referral link to maintain our overhead costs?
I know this has been answered previously, but some people make the assumption that doing so is no different than the scheme Somer Blink tried last year and this time around and I'd like to have CCP's stance. CSM can weigh in if they want but considering they aren't actually the policy makers it's not going to win people over in my assumption. Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23986
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:24:00 -
[478] - Quote
commander aze wrote:I firmly believe there have been mistakes on both sides of this. Somer blink provided content for many and I believe firmly that the content provided was worthwhile. Any content provided is 100% irrelevant in the face of the multiple EULA breaches. You don't get to break the rules just because you've entertained some small minority of people.
Quote:CCP has little to no business in telling us what we can or cannot do with plex ingame or out. Selling isk is against EULA and we all under stand this. However buying a plex off of a person who bought it from them from a site and exchanging plex for isk in that way is in no way against the EULA. It is if it's a quid-pro-quo for an real-money transaction. If you get some amount of ISK solely and entirely dependent on having given the other party real money, then it doesn't matter what mechanics were used in-game and it most definitely is CCP's business to tell us that it is not allowed.
Quote:Stopping the service that thousands have enjoyed out of existence is both silly and stupid. Well, that's Somer for you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:25:00 -
[479] - Quote
Montey Haul wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:So as to appease the people accusing sites like CrossignZebras.com, EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. as well as tossing in EVE focused YouTube channels.
Is the promotion of using an Amazon referral link to buy PLEX, which would give a small percentage based kickback to the referrer a violation of any of CCP's policies? For example, I run the YouTube channel YouTube.com/UbaStij and after doing a video on say "How To Align Like A Pro" I mention there is an Amazon link in the description which leads to Amazon's store to buy a PLEX. I state "buying a PLEX through this Amazon link will help keep me operating this service for you the consumer." Is that permitted?
What if I operated the channel with several underlings who were compensated for their contributions in ISK and not through real money? Is it still permitted to promote purchasing through our Amazon referral link to maintain our overhead costs?
I know this has been answered previously, but some people make the assumption that doing so is no different than the scheme Somer Blink tried last year and this time around and I'd like to have CCP's stance. CSM can weigh in if they want but considering they aren't actually the policy makers it's not going to win people over in my assumption. Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice. Must be a gambling addict or something. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:31:00 -
[480] - Quote
Montey Haul wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:So as to appease the people accusing sites like CrossignZebras.com, EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. as well as tossing in EVE focused YouTube channels.
Is the promotion of using an Amazon referral link to buy PLEX, which would give a small percentage based kickback to the referrer a violation of any of CCP's policies? For example, I run the YouTube channel YouTube.com/UbaStij and after doing a video on say "How To Align Like A Pro" I mention there is an Amazon link in the description which leads to Amazon's store to buy a PLEX. I state "buying a PLEX through this Amazon link will help keep me operating this service for you the consumer." Is that permitted?
What if I operated the channel with several underlings who were compensated for their contributions in ISK and not through real money? Is it still permitted to promote purchasing through our Amazon referral link to maintain our overhead costs?
I know this has been answered previously, but some people make the assumption that doing so is no different than the scheme Somer Blink tried last year and this time around and I'd like to have CCP's stance. CSM can weigh in if they want but considering they aren't actually the policy makers it's not going to win people over in my assumption. Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4933917#post4933917
HTH LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11261
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:32:00 -
[481] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: No, he made a stupid joke which is not nearly the same on the severity scale as encouragement.
You have a weird definition of "joke". Just because it was tasteless, offensive, and unfunny doesn't meant it wasn't a joke. It's pretty clear that it was. If I were to actively attempt to drive someone over the brink I wouldn't make one offhand comment and then drop the subject entirely. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
KayleInara
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:36:00 -
[482] - Quote
Brahan Seer wrote: ... to be a SA member you need to pay $10 if you do pay the 10 bucks and get into goons you get a 120% SRP. If I am misinterpreting that than say so. Up to this point its only been confirmed which is ******* RMT. If I am mistaken say so instead of acting like children as per usual
I admit it. I paid my $10 to join SA in 2004 just so I could get into Goonwaffe in the year of our Lord 2014. This is the sneakiest and most forward thinking RMT scheme ever. Also the longest queue to benefit.
Also, it's 200% SRP.
|
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
505
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:45:00 -
[483] - Quote
KayleInara wrote:Also, it's 200% SRP.
Stop it, you'll drown the Auth team in j4g applications. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23986
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:48:00 -
[484] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:KayleInara wrote:Also, it's 200% SRP. Stop it, you'll drown the Auth team in j4g applications. But their despair is so fun to watch! GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
139
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:49:00 -
[485] - Quote
Annie Getyourgun wrote:With the discussion of referrals and third party retailers fresh on the minds of many, will this open up internal discussion of changing the way referrals work?
I understand the theory behind referrals is to help community sites (such as Dotlan, or EVE University with their Wiki) offset costs of operation, something that CCP wishes to do as it helps both with exposure of the product as well as makes the community a richer place.
So with the elimination of ETC and the movement to PLEX exclusively, what is stopping a change in referral links to act the same way 21 day trial referrals work? I want to support a community site, and when I click on their referral link, I am directed to the EVE Account Management page, where I can purchase a PLEX and the referring site gets credit for their referral. What is preventing this scenario from becoming reality?
@CCP, read this very thoroughly and think about it. This would solve so many problems at once.
About CCP's decision and handling the Somer incident, good, you actually gained some trust points. The CSM proved they are worth their money ;), no pun intended. Great work CSM keep it up and we may see more players starting to vote again and gain confidence in you. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." --áAbrazzar |
Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 04:57:00 -
[486] - Quote
I think it's in pretty poor taste to rant over and over on someone that was given a huge grey area to operate in. For YEARs it was all fine. Now the petty trolls climb out of the woodwork and attack a part of the game that isn't even allowed a response in the same venue. Way to be righteous! Disrespect and low blows are what most folks expect when putting the truth in plain easy to read issues fail. Let's just continue to enjoy half the argument and call it non-biased. It's a game, there was an overwhelming show of favoritism and there will continue to be. Let's not call an apple an orange. Or if it makes you feel better.. do... Things got out of control. People with a long standing commitment to the EVE community were ridiculed and run out of the game. People have strong feelings on both sides and obviously not caring about how people address those feelings is not going to help anything at all. Somer blink was a long standing part of the Eve community right or wrong that is true. Somer and staff all put a lot of hours to develop and entertain a lot of EVE players... <-Also true. If RMT is even a provable issue here is and where the concern should be placed. Not on picking needlessly at all the things that have no bearing on what actually happened. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1048
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:00:00 -
[487] - Quote
Montey Haul wrote:I think it's in pretty poor taste to rant over and over on someone that was given a huge grey area to operate in. For YEARs it was all fine. Now the petty trolls climb out of the woodwork and attack a part of the game that isn't even allowed a response in the same venue. Way to be righteous! Disrespect and low blows are what most folks expect when putting the truth in plain easy to read issues fail. Let's just continue to enjoy half the argument and call it non-biased. It's a game, there was an overwhelming show of favoritism and there will continue to be. Let's not call an apple an orange. Or if it makes you feel better.. do... Things got out of control. People with a long standing commitment to the EVE community were ridiculed and run out of the game. People have strong feelings on both sides and obviously not caring about how people address those feelings is not going to help anything at all. Somer blink was a long standing part of the Eve community right or wrong that is true. Somer and staff all put a lot of hours to develop and entertain a lot of EVE players... <-Also true. If RMT is even a provable issue here is and where the concern should be placed. Not on picking needlessly at all the things that have no bearing on what actually happened. When the good guys win it's okay for us to celebrate.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:03:00 -
[488] - Quote
Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer
http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s |
Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:04:00 -
[489] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Montey Haul wrote:I think it's in pretty poor taste to rant over and over on someone that was given a huge grey area to operate in. For YEARs it was all fine. Now the petty trolls climb out of the woodwork and attack a part of the game that isn't even allowed a response in the same venue. Way to be righteous! Disrespect and low blows are what most folks expect when putting the truth in plain easy to read issues fail. Let's just continue to enjoy half the argument and call it non-biased. It's a game, there was an overwhelming show of favoritism and there will continue to be. Let's not call an apple an orange. Or if it makes you feel better.. do... Things got out of control. People with a long standing commitment to the EVE community were ridiculed and run out of the game. People have strong feelings on both sides and obviously not caring about how people address those feelings is not going to help anything at all. Somer blink was a long standing part of the Eve community right or wrong that is true. Somer and staff all put a lot of hours to develop and entertain a lot of EVE players... <-Also true. If RMT is even a provable issue here is and where the concern should be placed. Not on picking needlessly at all the things that have no bearing on what actually happened. When the good guys win it's okay for us to celebrate. Pretty sure that ****** shared your opinion |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:05:00 -
[490] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s
Should share that with CCP's Internal Affairs team as well as the Security team then. If you feel it's actual RMT and needs to be stopped.
[email protected] LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23986
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:05:00 -
[491] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing How are they RMTing? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
KayleInara
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:06:00 -
[492] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s
You really have no idea what RMT is do you? |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:07:00 -
[493] - Quote
KayleInara wrote:crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s You really have no idea what RMT is do you?
It's what Goons do. Duh. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
NeOnicuS
IP Rights
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:08:00 -
[494] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Sorry you work for a crook. Sion Kumitomo wrote:This, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call the Bernie Madoff defense. Xander Phoena wrote:This was beautiful. I had a wee cry. I'm going back to CCP to see if we can't reverse this heinous and misjudged decision for your family. Sion Kumitomo wrote:That's right, throw yourself up on that cross.
Derrick Miles wrote:Well I must say that the CSM as a whole has done a great job lately representing the community. A few of them pouncing on the first SOMERblink member on the other hand... not so great. It seems their class and professionalism knows many bounds. |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:10:00 -
[495] - Quote
KayleInara wrote:crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s You really have no idea what RMT is do you?
To join SA you pay $10, clearly stated you need to join SA in the video to join goons, correct me if I am wrong.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23986
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:13:00 -
[496] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:To join SA you pay $10, clearly stated you need to join SA in the video to join goons, correct me if I am wrong.
GǪand, setting aside that joining SA is not the same as joining goons (which blows your entire dead horse out of the water), the RMT isGǪ? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:17:00 -
[497] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:KayleInara wrote:crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s You really have no idea what RMT is do you? To join SA you pay $10, clearly stated you need to join SA in the video to join goons, correct me if I am wrong.
Out of curiosity, do you not think that since 2008 (and before) CCP haven't bothered to look into or determine if it is RMT? And if so, do you not recognize that they were ok with it going on despite it being your own personal classification of RMT? LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
26
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:17:00 -
[498] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:Annie Getyourgun wrote:With the discussion of referrals and third party retailers fresh on the minds of many, will this open up internal discussion of changing the way referrals work?
I understand the theory behind referrals is to help community sites (such as Dotlan, or EVE University with their Wiki) offset costs of operation, something that CCP wishes to do as it helps both with exposure of the product as well as makes the community a richer place.
So with the elimination of ETC and the movement to PLEX exclusively, what is stopping a change in referral links to act the same way 21 day trial referrals work? I want to support a community site, and when I click on their referral link, I am directed to the EVE Account Management page, where I can purchase a PLEX and the referring site gets credit for their referral. What is preventing this scenario from becoming reality?
@CCP, read this very thoroughly and think about it. This would solve so many problems at once. About CCP's decision and handling the Somer incident, good, you actually gained some trust points. The CSM proved they are worth their money ;), no pun intended. Great work CSM keep it up and we may see more players starting to vote again and gain confidence in you.
Well, to attack my own position from earlier:
CCP currently only has currency related to PLEX flowing one direction, in. Whether it be a player, or a Third Party Retailer (3PR), they don't ever send out a single copper piece to anyone.
When the Third Party Retailer pays out the referral, all they have to do is record the transaction on the books. They already make outgoing payments to CCP for the PLEX, and receive incoming payments when they sell to the end consumer.
It is a tremendous leap from setting guidelines about how 3PR can satisfy referral links to doing it themselves. Currently the way things are, we have no say about how any of the referral income is spent; the recipient could use it on anything from server hosting, a weekly coffee, or even save it all up for a pizza party at fanfest. It is basically the same as donating to one of the community sites via Paypal, you are acting on good faith that they will do something you find appealing with the donation, but there really is little oversight.
When I posted this, it was more to foster some discussion in the thread. After reading some of the more recent posts, It seems that opportunity has come and gone. I still like the theory of what I initially presented, I am just not certain (and this is from an outside observers perspective) that it could be implemented with any degree of satisfaction. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
506
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:18:00 -
[499] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote: To join SA you pay $10, clearly stated you need to join SA in the video to join goons, correct me if I am wrong.
Goons are just SA members. We paid $10 to be a member of an Internet comedy forum community. Some of those SA members play EVE together. That's it. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11075
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:25:00 -
[500] - Quote
most alliances require microphones in order to join their fleets and thus get SRP
i suppose that this is also RMT because microphones cost $10+ Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
KayleInara
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:25:00 -
[501] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote: To join SA you pay $10, clearly stated you need to join SA in the video to join goons, correct me if I am wrong.
I joined SA in 2004.
I joined Goonwaffe in 2014.
SA got no 'referral' bonus from Eve in any way when I joined Goonwaffe (note that I played Eve back in 2009, but not in Goonswarm).
There is no 'monetary connection' between Eve and SA.
Let me go with another tack. In order to play Eve, you need an internet connection. Unless you are getting it free somehow, you have to pay a company for that internet connection. Said company does not get paid a kickback from CCP or anyone else when I start playing Eve, even though that internet connection enables me to play.
RMT means that someone gets real life $$ in their pocket for some sort of in-game action. This is not the case for either my cable company that provides my internet connection, or for my membership in SA - those entities would both get the money if I'd never even heard of Eve. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11075
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:27:00 -
[502] - Quote
it might even count as being a group formed around hating people with speech impairments because they can't use microphones
let's continue this game of making absurd conclusions from eula snippets Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23986
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:28:00 -
[503] - Quote
Andski wrote:most alliances require microphones in order to join their fleets and thus get SRP
i suppose that this is also RMT because microphones cost $10+ It's worse than that. Unless you're Tom Hanks stuck in an airport, logging in generally requires you to have access to money stored in a bank, which tends to mean that you're a citizen of some kind of semi-civilized nation, which in turn means that you'll end up paying taxes in some form ore another. And that's pretty much a GÇ£country membershipGÇ¥ fee, just like the $10 for SA, so that's obviously RMT too. =ƒÿ¦
Ban the U.S., tbh. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11261
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:29:00 -
[504] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s Oh **** guys we're ****** Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11075
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:31:00 -
[505] - Quote
also
Andski wrote:joining a russian alliance requires that you speak russian
learning to speak russian costs money
i bet the russian alliances get a kickback from russian language instructors and rosetta stone, i know i'll find the evidence to out their little RMT scheme and if i don't i'll just insist that this is the case
Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Trisha Landers
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:32:00 -
[506] - Quote
CCP should ban corps that restrict membership based on nationality. It costs money to become a citizen of another nation just to be allowed to join a corp.
You don't join SA in order to join Goons. That will likely get you podded and kicked from Goons.
You join Goons if you're already a member of SA and also play EVE. Or you can just skip joining SA and pay an in-game referral fee to one of the many trustworthy Goonswarm recruitment officers. (basically any member of Goonswarm. They're all pretty stand up fellows I hear.) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11261
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:32:00 -
[507] - Quote
I have to eat to keep going on fleets with kcolor food costs money rmt Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
JamDunc
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
192
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:35:00 -
[508] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:I get why he got banned. BUT with banning him you also banned almost 30% of all the Unique ships in eve alliance turney ships of old and other ships that just dont exist anywhere else its alot of history that has been in 1 persons assets. for a game that is built around its rich history.
so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.
whatever you choose to do CCP dont ruin the eve History by removing these ships from the game We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value.
I understand that this is the standard policy you are quoting.
I just wondered. Could you bring this up in some meeting and decide if an exception should be made in this case? I'm not talking about just giving all his stuff to players. Maybe some of the really rare one of a kind ships he has could be used during events or something. If you wont give them out at least let them die in a blaze of glory as they were destined to do.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23986
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:37:00 -
[509] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I have to eat to keep going on fleets with kcolor Pfff! It's no wonder you guys can never be 1337 PvP with that kind if weakness. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
44
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 05:52:00 -
[510] - Quote
Thank you falcon and CSM |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11075
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 06:02:00 -
[511] - Quote
andrev nox, second in command at somerblink, has choice words to say about the eve community: http://www.reddit.com/user/Andrev_Nox
always professional, blinkers Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11261
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 06:05:00 -
[512] - Quote
Tippia wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:I have to eat to keep going on fleets with kcolor Pfff! It's no wonder you guys can never be 1337 PvP with that kind if weakness. goons are 420 pvp Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
132
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 06:08:00 -
[513] - Quote
Lord BryanII wrote:Is there any internal investigation on how a player got to be so cozy with a Vice President? If there would have been proper channels in place, say a relationship manager that knew his history, this may not have happened.
Whats to keep some other player from getting cozy with a Vice President of security? Or a lead game designer that knows when market changes are about to be announced? How you get cozy with a VP of sales:
"Hi I'm in charge of website X, we have such and such traffic, and I'd like to do a promotion for plex sales. I'll be working with authorized reseller Y on this, see attached documents. This is what I'll be doing for the promotion, blah blah blah."
It's a sales person's job to be cozy with the people who move product. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 06:10:00 -
[514] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:I am late to this particular thread but I wanted to say that I think CCP's (in particular, Falcon and Leeloo's) response to this situation has been exemplary. They have communicated with the community throughout, they have constantly coordinated with CSM9 and the final outcome was entirely justified. There was one particular part of the final statement posted in the OP of this thread I disagreed with though: CCP Falcon wrote:CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department). (emphasis mine) Whilst I believe Somer utilised some pretty vague and tricksy wording in his original proposal and clearly carried out a final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted, it is clear that a submitted proposal was given authorisation by a member of CCP. Whether that person had jurisdiction to sign off on it or not isn't down to Somer but the individual themselves. To be clear, I believe the final judgement made by CCP in regards to Somer was entirely fair but I also believe that that key point in Falcon's OP is incorrect. That shouldn't take away from their superb handling of this situation overall and I hope this is a benchmark and template should a similar situation arise in the future. I wanted to bring this up because I have been utterly impressed by Falcon and Leeloo's handling of this situation but this one particular point doesn't ring true for me and having seen others point out the fact on this thread, I felt it important that you heard what this particular CSM representative was thinking. A CSM where all 14 individuals think the same thing all of the time is ultimately pointless after all. I feel this will never be actually covered by CCP.
The simple fact is Somer submitted a plan for approval. Giving CCP the change to raise OBVIOUS questions like "How will you determine your purchase price for the PLEX?", and fully expecting it to go through CCP Legal. It didn't, and the fault of that lies at CCP, NOT with SomerBlink.
Then to go and say it was never given approval.. The emails clearly show it was authorized by CCP. As soon as you greenlight something, that is Approval. Somer saying it was CCP Approved was just saying it had gone through CCP. Which it had.
CCP's own internal mismanagement is where a lot of the fault lies here.
Does Somer deserve a ban for releasing internal correspondence.. Well by the rules they do.. But the OP in this can missrepresent facts already out in the open, it makes me wonder what CCP would have said if it was never released at all?
But we are never gonna get to that.. CCP is going to downplay all their own faults, just as they did with the whole Mittani at Fanfest episode.. Devs on stage beside him, no issues.. Replay it again later in the day.. no issues.. days later drama happens.. OMG we had NO idea and must BAN him NOW.. We would never tolerate that...
SomerBlink made plenty of mistakes.. after the first two episodes of Drama they should have got every little detail vetted, and Demanded it go through CCP Legal.
But had CCP not been totally lacking in internal communication.. In asking the most obvious of questions.. In having some sort of procedures in place for approvals of 3rd party actions.. This whole farce never would have happened. It would have been shot down in the spring when Somer first had the idea.
I am disappointed in CCP. In how they handled their relations with Blink, and even more in how they are handling the aftermath.. whitewashing the facts. At worst they are lying, at best they are being disingenuous and splitting hairs as to what Approved and Authorized means. |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
12702
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 06:26:00 -
[515] - Quote
I'm happy to see that CCP and CSM have managed to get this resolved so quickly. While it always sucks to see it coming to actions like this I am glad that a stance was taken and violators punished properly (unless there's shady stuff that we don't know of... hope not [*not fully recovered my bitterness from last year]).
Thank you for the update.
/c
|
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2498
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 06:39:00 -
[516] - Quote
We have all watch CCP Falcon change before our very eyes from a man into a legend.
He, and all the others from CCP, the CSM and the many players who have brought insight into the whole sorry affair, have handled this issue very well and are a credit to the game.
Next big scandal please.
This is not a signature. |
Prince Kobol
2070
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 06:40:00 -
[517] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:I am late to this particular thread but I wanted to say that I think CCP's (in particular, Falcon and Leeloo's) response to this situation has been exemplary. They have communicated with the community throughout, they have constantly coordinated with CSM9 and the final outcome was entirely justified. There was one particular part of the final statement posted in the OP of this thread I disagreed with though: CCP Falcon wrote:CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department). (emphasis mine) Whilst I believe Somer utilised some pretty vague and tricksy wording in his original proposal and clearly carried out a final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted, it is clear that a submitted proposal was given authorisation by a member of CCP. Whether that person had jurisdiction to sign off on it or not isn't down to Somer but the individual themselves. To be clear, I believe the final judgement made by CCP in regards to Somer was entirely fair but I also believe that that key point in Falcon's OP is incorrect. That shouldn't take away from their superb handling of this situation overall and I hope this is a benchmark and template should a similar situation arise in the future. I wanted to bring this up because I have been utterly impressed by Falcon and Leeloo's handling of this situation but this one particular point doesn't ring true for me and having seen others point out the fact on this thread, I felt it important that you heard what this particular CSM representative was thinking. A CSM where all 14 individuals think the same thing all of the time is ultimately pointless after all. I feel this will never be actually covered by CCP. The simple fact is Somer submitted a plan for approval. Giving CCP the change to raise OBVIOUS questions like "How will you determine your purchase price for the PLEX?", and fully expecting it to go through CCP Legal. It didn't, and the fault of that lies at CCP, NOT with SomerBlink. Then to go and say it was never given approval.. The emails clearly show it was authorized by CCP. As soon as you greenlight something, that is Approval. Somer saying it was CCP Approved was just saying it had gone through CCP. Which it had. CCP's own internal mismanagement is where a lot of the fault lies here. Does Somer deserve a ban for releasing internal correspondence.. Well by the rules they do.. But the OP in this can missrepresent facts already out in the open, it makes me wonder what CCP would have said if it was never released at all? But we are never gonna get to that.. CCP is going to downplay all their own faults, just as they did with the whole Mittani at Fanfest episode.. Devs on stage beside him, no issues.. Replay it again later in the day.. no issues.. days later drama happens.. OMG we had NO idea and must BAN him NOW.. We would never tolerate that... SomerBlink made plenty of mistakes.. after the first two episodes of Drama they should have got every little detail vetted, and Demanded it go through CCP Legal. But had CCP not been totally lacking in internal communication.. In asking the most obvious of questions.. In having some sort of procedures in place for approvals of 3rd party actions.. This whole farce never would have happened. It would have been shot down in the spring when Somer first had the idea. I am disappointed in CCP. In how they handled their relations with Blink, and even more in how they are handling the aftermath.. whitewashing the facts. At worst they are lying, at best they are being disingenuous and splitting hairs as to what Approved and Authorized means.
I agree a lot with this post.
Did Somer deserved to ban banned, Yes, absolutely. He broke the EULA/TOS when he posted private conversions. Was his scheme a form of RMT, again yes.
However it should of never gotten to the this stage. CCP should of shot this down the very second he contacted them about this scheme.
|
Jack Breacher
LionGate Enterprises Care Factor
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 06:50:00 -
[518] - Quote
Dont tell me that youve banned somer completely, im still waiting for my damnation. I wasted about 30bil in somer and im not gonna get a penny, how sad :/
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20272
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 07:26:00 -
[519] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:KayleInara wrote:crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s You really have no idea what RMT is do you? To join SA you pay $10, clearly stated you need to join SA in the video to join goons, correct me if I am wrong. If you pay :tenbux: to join the SA forums with the sole objective of joining Goonswarm you're in for a big surprise.
They don't like Join4Guilds, they might let you into Goonswarm, but only so that they can steal your stuff, violate your corpsicle and then kick you, because you thought you could buy your way in.
Also that video is so old that Velociraptors were in the audience. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 07:41:00 -
[520] - Quote
Ohkewl wrote:Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program.
As a matter of fact, joining SA in order to get into Waffe or CONDI is one of the best ways to ensure you never will. |
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 07:44:00 -
[521] - Quote
Trisha Landers wrote:CCP should ban corps that restrict membership based on nationality. It costs money to become a citizen of another nation just to be allowed to join a corp.
You don't join SA in order to join Goons. That will likely get you podded and kicked from Goons.
You join Goons if you're already a member of SA and also play EVE. Or you can just skip joining SA and pay an in-game referral fee to one of the many trustworthy Goonswarm recruitment officers. (basically any member of Goonswarm. They're all pretty stand up fellows I hear.)
I suggest Scooter McCabe. I hear that guy knows what's what. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
45
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 07:46:00 -
[522] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:CCP Falcon, is there any chance this might inspire a clearer definition of the third party rules and guidelines going forward? As it stands it seems that they are spread all over the place in articles, blogs, and years of forum posts. A big incident like this one can be kind of intimidating for first-time developers when the rules aren't exactly clearly laid out, especially when the result is a ban and the exact cause of the ban is unknown. This is still to be determined, but something that I'll be pushing for.
Its needed to be clarified If you want to prevent things like that in future.
But based on your dedication and hard work, Im sure you will also accomplish that task
Good work bro. Thanks |
Ynef
Tesseract Industries
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 07:50:00 -
[523] - Quote
Justice has been done. I'm a happy subscriber.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
154
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 07:51:00 -
[524] - Quote
Andski wrote:let's continue this game of making absurd conclusions from eula snippets
Oooh! I got one. It's recycled from something I pointed out on TMC, but I think it still qualifies!
The EULA says you can't have an EVE account if you're acting on behalf of a business. Whenever you're at work, you're a representative of your employer. This mostly comes up in the service industries (waiters, mechanics, etc), but it's been legally upheld even for factory work etc. As a representative of your employer, you're acting on their behalf, even if it's just pushing the button on a copper-wire spooler.
Thus, IF YOU HAVE A JOB, YOU CANNOT HAVE AN EVE ACCOUNT!
ZOMG!
ok, let's see people get more absurd than that one. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20274
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 07:56:00 -
[525] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Andski wrote:let's continue this game of making absurd conclusions from eula snippets Oooh! I got one. It's recycled from something I pointed out on TMC, but I think it still qualifies! The EULA says you can't have an EVE account if you're acting on behalf of a business. Whenever you're at work, you're a representative of your employer. This mostly comes up in the service industries (waiters, mechanics, etc), but it's been legally upheld even for factory work etc. As a representative of your employer, you're acting on their behalf, even if it's just pushing the button on a copper-wire spooler. Thus, IF YOU HAVE A JOB, YOU CANNOT HAVE AN EVE ACCOUNT! ZOMG! ok, let's see people get more absurd than that one. I've played Eve at work, as it was during working hours and I was being paid for my presence I was technically a representative of my employer.
I should be banned "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
46
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 08:10:00 -
[526] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Andski wrote:let's continue this game of making absurd conclusions from eula snippets Oooh! I got one. It's recycled from something I pointed out on TMC, but I think it still qualifies! The EULA says you can't have an EVE account if you're acting on behalf of a business. Whenever you're at work, you're a representative of your employer. This mostly comes up in the service industries (waiters, mechanics, etc), but it's been legally upheld even for factory work etc. As a representative of your employer, you're acting on their behalf, even if it's just pushing the button on a copper-wire spooler. Thus, IF YOU HAVE A JOB, YOU CANNOT HAVE AN EVE ACCOUNT! ZOMG! ok, let's see people get more absurd than that one.
Let me try:
EULA says you can't share your account with anyone else.
but I know people plays with their wife/fiance on a same account with differenc chars like she mining in osmon and it generally ends with her being ganked and she yells in local etc etc...
So you share your account with "someone" even if its your wife + they are working as home office so, its alsu against the EULA fact which you stated. So they broke 2 EULA at once
IF YOU ARE MARRIED AND WORKING WITH YOUR WIFE AS HOME OFFICE AND YOUR WIFE ALSO LOVES EVE YOU CAN'T HAVE AN EVE ACCOUNT!
Beat me.. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
710
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 08:24:00 -
[527] - Quote
Jack Breacher wrote:Dont tell me that youve banned somer completely, im still waiting for my damnation. I wasted about 30bil in somer and im not gonna get a penny, how sad :/
oh my... I just realized that Jita gained another scam meme. Fie on you CCP!
CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
610
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 08:25:00 -
[528] - Quote
Madora Galtaki wrote:I know there are a lot of players out there who are saying good riddance to SomerBlink, but there are also a great many of us who are greatly saddened in saying goodbye to Somer. Playing on SomerBlink is the biggest reason I have maintained an active account for the past year. In the five years that I've been playing Eve, my account has had a lot of sporadic inactive time. Blink has given me a reason to keep my account active even when I needed to take a break from Eve. I never participated in the recent PLEX buying service, but I enjoyed playing blinks and promos and participating in celebration events. I personally know a person whose account was inactive for nearly two years, had no intention of ever returning to Eve, and is only active now because of SomerBlink and his interest in playing the raffles with in-game currency. In answer to those who doubt that Eve players with a Blink Credit balance will ever see that ISK again, I have already been issued a deposit from Blink's corporate account in game. I'm sure there are a lot of players to compensate. I can't say I'm dissatisfied with the way CCP has handled the situation. As a player with an invested interest in Blink, I am appreciative of the public updates made by CCP. Goodbye Somer, I will greatly miss you.
The reason i have an active account is internet spaceships. Id recommend you to play online poker in the future. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
412
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 08:39:00 -
[529] - Quote
Andski wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Any consideration regarding the fact that this action will most likely remove a large number of unique items from the game (namely, numerous AT prize ships and other not-obtainable-ever-again type ships that are/were in possession of Somer)?
A potential solution would be to auction these unique items through public contracts with the ISK going to CCP (ie. removed from the game). Might even help fight the inflation a bit :) nobody's going to fly them anyway
Probably. But...
Now that is guaranteed whereas before there was a possibility - however small - to get a nice killmail because people are people, they do make mistakes. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Pottebee
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 08:55:00 -
[530] - Quote
Both myself and Judge Judy expressed concerns at Somer recent enterprise/venture
I myself not a gambler but a long old player of eve , liked alot of his hard work and commitment to run such a fun for some site although only fools gamble, chance favours the prepared mind
And finally i would like to say...............Judgement has been passed , real people, real ccp , real csm, sorry somer , one step too far :(
Oh and always honour ransom, Trium you should have took the ransom offer !!! |
|
Aliventi
C.Q.B
765
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 08:57:00 -
[531] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Frantico wrote:I get why he got banned. BUT with banning him you also banned almost 30% of all the Unique ships in eve alliance turney ships of old and other ships that just dont exist anywhere else its alot of history that has been in 1 persons assets. for a game that is built around its rich history.
so what ccp should do is hold a auction of the seized Unique ships that way ccp can get eve history ships back out there to the public AND get alot of isk out of the game back to ccp.
whatever you choose to do CCP dont ruin the eve History by removing these ships from the game We do not remove ISK or assets from banned accounts to re-distribute them into the game, regardless of their rarity or value. I am curious as to why this is CCP's stance. What harm could come from redistributing assets of banned accounts in a responsible manner? It seems to me at the very least CCP (through CONCORD) could auction the assets of banned accounts off during a "PLEX 4 Good." That way the history of Eve and stories these ships may make some day aren't lost due to someone irresponsible actions, and there is a "greater good" benefit out of the assets being auctioned. It seems to me like a win-win. |
carbomb
Super Team Munkey
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 09:39:00 -
[532] - Quote
I might be wrong, quite often am but this seems to me that someone at ccp signed off on this without reading it properly. Someone higher caught it after the scheme had started and called a stop. Somer in protest posted copies of the conversations showing the given consent and rather than admit that they f**ked up, ccp digs a breach of service out of their pocket and bans somer.
just saying |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
154
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 09:46:00 -
[533] - Quote
carbomb wrote:I might be wrong,
You are correct about that. |
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
41
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 09:49:00 -
[534] - Quote
carbomb wrote:I might be wrong, quite often am but this seems to me that someone at ccp signed off on this without reading it properly. Someone higher caught it after the scheme had started and called a stop. Somer in protest posted copies of the conversations showing the given consent and rather than admit that they f**ked up, ccp digs a breach of service out of their pocket and bans somer.
just saying
this. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20280
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 09:49:00 -
[535] - Quote
carbomb wrote:I might be wrong, quite often am but this seems to me that someone at ccp signed off on this without reading it properly. Someone higher caught it after the scheme had started and called a stop. Somer in protest posted copies of the conversations showing the given consent and rather than admit that they f**ked up, ccp digs a breach of service out of their pocket and bans somer.
just saying Someone in sales, who should have passed it to legal but didn't, signed off on a proposal that was worded in such a way that it appeared to say one thing, and obscured the true intent of it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
162
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:03:00 -
[536] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:When does the ban take affect?
Did you actually read the 1st post from CCP Falcon? if not I suggest you do. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15742
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:17:00 -
[537] - Quote
Quote:You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.
I'm curious if this is the death of more than just SOMER. does this also mean promoting PLEX purchases with ISK is not possible? I mean the real-money, out of game purchases that create PLEX. ISK is already an incentive for purchasing PLEX / it's the main reason (the sole reason, even?)... it makes sense that an offer of even more ISK is well-received by people who would purchase PLEX.
the concept also passed an inspection (albeit a brief / superficial one... PS: honey pot), and it hasn't so far been criticized as 'wrong.' but isn't it unrealistic to expect anyone will do that out of altruism, and for -no- tangible benefit (versus intangible benefit, like space fame or something)?
what are acceptable out-of-game reasons that someone could overpay for PLEX... are there any?
If CCP policy and player opinion is strictly ISK must always only equal ISK, having unlimited ISK (or effectively unlimited ISK) [still] leaves the effort of a player/entity restricted to TQ.
in the SOMER / MD arrangement, what could be offered as a referral reward that would be considered OK by CCP and the community as not-RMT?
example case: Amazon is an ETC reseller. assuming referrals can be verified by both Amazon and the referrer, would an Amazon credit arrangement be accepted by CCP and players as not-RMT?
a large group has strength in numbers... and for the group to be effective, the thinking should be left to as few people as possible. the power of that group of thinkers transcends any in-game "apex force."
(know them, but don't get stuck in the game mechanics. it makes one a worker bee, and it's gauche). President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
151
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:24:00 -
[538] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:what are acceptable out-of-game reasons that someone could overpay for PLEX... are there any? I can't think of any.
Rain6637 wrote:in the SOMER / MD arrangement, what could be offered as a referral reward that would be considered OK by CCP and the community as not-RMT? Expressions of gratitude works. Maybe a personalized poem. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Tragot Gomndor
Rise of Cerberus Cerberus Unleashed
56
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:28:00 -
[539] - Quote
+1 Falcon +1 CSM +1 anyone else
So who is doing a public falcon roam now? :D 0.0 = GOONS = SAAAMMMMEEE!!!!1111222 |
Edward Harris
Lazerhawks
41
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:41:00 -
[540] - Quote
It's good to see that the CSM are supporting and respecting the CCP ToS by trolling and flaming in this thread - but I'm also sure they will not receive a ban or even a warning for misconduct. After all, noone is too big to fall in Eve.
|
|
BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
108
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:48:00 -
[541] - Quote
So, technically EvENews24 and TheMittani are both RMT-ing, right?
ISK -> Writers Writers -> Articles Users read Articles and see advertisement on website Mittani gets money for advertisement
http://i.imgur.com/i6L5GGY.png
just my .02 ISK. |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:53:00 -
[542] - Quote
BigSako wrote:So, technically EvENews24 and TheMittani are both RMT-ing, right? ISK -> Writers Writers -> Articles Users read Articles and see advertisement on website Mittani gets money for advertisement http://i.imgur.com/i6L5GGY.pngjust my .02 ISK. No, but good on you for not reading the thread. I'm sure your argument will become valid if you just repeat it enough times. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Xtreem
PERPIDE Ineluctable.
208
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:53:00 -
[543] - Quote
I think this was the right way to go.
I really really hope they do allow us to know what unique assets were banned.. why? because us collectors/resellers need this type of information to know how rare/valuable our assets now are. Volume is one of the most defining points of worth with rare assets.
Please CCP let us know what unique assets were banned, think of us legit traders :( |
Flamespar
Pradox One Proficiency V.
1233
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:54:00 -
[544] - Quote
It's a shame that issues like this seem to so completely co-opt the attention of players. Personally I think CCP has bigger issues to deal with. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15742
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:54:00 -
[545] - Quote
BigSako wrote:So, technically EvENews24 and TheMittani are both RMT-ing, right? ISK -> Writers Writers -> Articles Users read Articles and see advertisement on website Mittani gets money for advertisement http://i.imgur.com/i6L5GGY.pngjust my .02 ISK.
about that. I generate an ad click ... pretty much every time I visit TMC and OCD-click in the margins (I don't know why I do it. keeping myself warm for game time? it occurs to me that my fingers deserve track pants. my clicky little finger athletes)
I'll tel you right now, the power of those thinkers swayed the situation to this conclusion. they could have done the opposite, if they wished. arguments against TMC will probably not get very far.
I can also think of reasons why the involved transactions are removed enough to not be RMT. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5914
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 10:58:00 -
[546] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I can also think of reasons why the involved transactions are removed enough to not be RMT.
Please tell me how offering people extra isk if they buy PLEX through your affiliate link & sell it back to you is not actually an attempt to launder isk. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15742
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:00:00 -
[547] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I can also think of reasons why the involved transactions are removed enough to not be RMT. Please tell me how offering people extra isk if they buy PLEX through your affiliate link & sell it back to you is not actually an attempt to launder isk. that was referring to the ISK payment made to article writers for TMC. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2713
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:00:00 -
[548] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:in the SOMER / MD arrangement, what could be offered as a referral reward that would be considered OK by CCP and the community as not-RMT?
example case: Amazon is an ETC reseller. assuming referrals can be verified by both Amazon and the referrer, would an Amazon credit arrangement be accepted by CCP and players as not-RMT? Any out of game incentives, such as promos or sales by Amazon, are not considered RMT because they don't cross the boundary between in-game and out-of-game trading. The reason Somer's offer was RMT (I assume, as CCP never officially confirmed it) is because it traded the service of buying a PLEX in-game in exchange for using the referral link, which was a real money transaction between Somer and the GTC seller.
Fansites that use advertisements to generate revenue are not doing RMT. The reason is, they offer no in-game incentive for click-throughs on those ads, and any in-game services they may offer can be had without using anything that requires an action involving a real money exchange. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2713
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:02:00 -
[549] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I can also think of reasons why the involved transactions are removed enough to not be RMT. Please tell me how offering people extra isk if they buy PLEX through your affiliate link & sell it back to you is not actually an attempt to launder isk. that was referring to the ISK payment made to article writers for TMC. This is a unique case that is explicitly allowed by CCP as well as other things like graphic design and web development. In addition, the articles and content written cannot be resold for a profit. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15742
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:04:00 -
[550] - Quote
yes... and yes. it appears we are in agreement. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20287
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:04:00 -
[551] - Quote
BigSako wrote:So, technically EvENews24 and TheMittani are both RMT-ing, right? ISK -> Writers Writers -> Articles Users read Articles and see advertisement on website Mittani gets money for advertisement http://i.imgur.com/i6L5GGY.pngjust my .02 ISK. Paying ISK to writers for articles and opinion pieces is explicitly allowed by CCP, as long as the articles are Eve related. Monetisation of websites via ads is also OK with CCP as far as I know.
What isn't allowed is offering an ISK/ingame incentive to buy ETC/GTC from an affiliate, i.e. buying the resulting PLEX back from you at an inflated ISK price, when that gives you a RL cash kickback.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5914
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:05:00 -
[552] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I can also think of reasons why the involved transactions are removed enough to not be RMT. Please tell me how offering people extra isk if they buy PLEX through your affiliate link & sell it back to you is not actually an attempt to launder isk. that was referring to the ISK payment made to article writers for TMC.
oops This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5915
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:07:00 -
[553] - Quote
BigSako wrote:So, technically EvENews24 and TheMittani are both RMT-ing, right? ISK -> Writers Writers -> Articles Users read Articles and see advertisement on website Mittani gets money for advertisement http://i.imgur.com/i6L5GGY.pngjust my .02 ISK.
Are you trying to imply that people should be banned because they got money when someone visited their website? This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
Felicia Tennyson
Tennyson Court
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:09:00 -
[554] - Quote
+1 for CCP and CSM for making EvE a better world for the majority of the community and playerbase |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15742
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:09:00 -
[555] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:BigSako wrote:So, technically EvENews24 and TheMittani are both RMT-ing, right? ISK -> Writers Writers -> Articles Users read Articles and see advertisement on website Mittani gets money for advertisement http://i.imgur.com/i6L5GGY.pngjust my .02 ISK. Paying ISK to writers for articles and opinion pieces is explicitly allowed by CCP, as long as the articles are Eve related. Monetisation of websites via ads is also OK with CCP as far as I know. What isn't allowed is offering an ISK/ingame incentive to buy ETC/GTC from an affiliate, i.e. buying the resulting PLEX back from you at an inflated ISK price, when that affiliate gives you a RL cash kickback for every sale. the RL cash kickback.. is the variable i'm changing, until I find one that is appealing and approrpirate as a reward to the recipient, CCP , and players.
like...Amazon credit? or maybe amazon coupon codes.
whould those be legal? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2502
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:10:00 -
[556] - Quote
I find the goon forum spammers (andski et al) as boring as anyone else, but if anyone thinks that they as a group or mittens are involved in RMT, then simply report it to CCP.
Simply making unsubstantiated allegations in the forums is just forum trolling of the worse type. This is not a signature. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15742
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:11:00 -
[557] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:BigSako wrote:So, technically EvENews24 and TheMittani are both RMT-ing, right? ISK -> Writers Writers -> Articles Users read Articles and see advertisement on website Mittani gets money for advertisement http://i.imgur.com/i6L5GGY.pngjust my .02 ISK. Are you trying to imply that people should be banned because they got money when someone visited their website? yes i think that's the process the thinks should get labeled as RMT. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:15:00 -
[558] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:yes i think that's the process the thinks should get labeled as RMT. The difference is that there's no ingame incentive for the people clicking TMC/EN24/Dotlan ads. None of those sites go around and tell people they'll get ISK is they click the ads, but Somer promised ISK in exchange for people buying stuff through his affiliate link.
If I put up an Amazon affiliate link, and tell people to buy stuff through there in exchange for me paying them ISK, that's of course RMT. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
146
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:15:00 -
[559] - Quote
Deka Ekato wrote:CCP,
- "Edit. Thank you to CCP Falcon for answering to this edited question." - What about CCP's involement in all of this?
I just feel that punnishing Somer is simply a start to fixing this SomerGate debarcle.
Just some more questions.
- Will CCP be taking any action in preventing this happening again? - Will CCP be creating their own "casino" now that Somer is gone? ( Please do not do this. I don't want to see Eve turn into a casino. ) - Why was Somer not dealt with in the first place? ( I have an answer to this, but it would be nice to hear yours ). - Will CCP endorse and allow some other creative person with a new scheme, in the future?
I really do feel, (and from what I understand), that Somer was not punished for RMT, (which he should be), but for some other reason(s). |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5915
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:20:00 -
[560] - Quote
Deka Ekato wrote:I really do feel, (and from what I understand), that Somer was not punished for RMT, (which he should be), but for some other reason(s).
There is basically 3 reasons he was punished. The first is the RMT, the second would be falsely claiming that the scheme as it is was CCP approved, the third would be publicly posting the private emails with CCP. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:21:00 -
[561] - Quote
I'm more wondering why it took players to bring the issue up in the first place. CCP was perfectly capable of visiting the site and looking at the new promotion (literally all they had to do was look at it), do they not keep close tabs on their affiliates? |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2738
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:28:00 -
[562] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I'm more wondering why it took players to bring the issue up in the first place. CCP was perfectly capable of visiting the site and looking at the new promotion (literally all they had to do was look at it), do they not keep close tabs on their affiliates? I take it that you have no idea how many affiliates a company of the size such as CCP might have ? Do you? Because I sure have no idea. |
Citricioni
Stille Gewalt Easily Excited
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:29:00 -
[563] - Quote
I think an official version of "SOMER Blink" would be the most appropriate variant ... Stille Gewalt NPSI
Channel: Stille Gewalt |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2738
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:29:00 -
[564] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Deka Ekato wrote:I really do feel, (and from what I understand), that Somer was not punished for RMT, (which he should be), but for some other reason(s). There is basically 3 reasons he was punished. The first is the RMT, the second would be falsely claiming that the scheme as it is was CCP approved, the third would be publicly posting the private emails with CCP. It wasn't actually confirmed that RMT was one of the reasons. |
aniel
Babylon Knights The Unthinkables
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:32:00 -
[565] - Quote
unbanned somerset |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
153
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:37:00 -
[566] - Quote
aniel wrote:unbanned somerset is this a FREE KARTTOON NOW post Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
301
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:46:00 -
[567] - Quote
Shinnyo wrote:So now that he's banned, can CCP give us an idea of how much ISK and ships were removed from the game? :D This is what I am interested in. |
Citricioni
Stille Gewalt Easily Excited
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:49:00 -
[568] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Shinnyo wrote:So now that he's banned, can CCP give us an idea of how much ISK and ships were removed from the game? :D This is what I am interested in.
about 74687468746874638746874isk in limited issue ships and about 65464684683463846346341isk on wallet -.- Stille Gewalt NPSI
Channel: Stille Gewalt |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
301
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:52:00 -
[569] - Quote
Aryth wrote:What a satisfying week. Thanks CCP
*gets ready for the train of goonswarm acolytes which are going to be gleefully gloating all over this thread."
This must be an early christmas present for you guys. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
301
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 11:55:00 -
[570] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It's a shame that issues like this seem to so completely co-opt the attention of players. Personally I think CCP has bigger issues to deal with. Indeed, I never saw this much fuss made over the drone avionics skill fiasco, something which was a much higher priority than this internet drama. |
|
Loki O'Grady
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
24
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:04:00 -
[571] - Quote
Citricioni wrote:I think an official version of "SOMER Blink" would be the most appropriate variant ...
Just like other OOG tools like EveMON and EFT, there is no need for CCP to come up with a replacement to Blink. There are probably a dozen replacements already being developed. Somer has already shown us just how much isk people are willing to gamble away - you could fund an entire alliance with the amount of profit that is raked in. |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
217
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:05:00 -
[572] - Quote
Well done CCP and CSM!
Senex Legio |
Mia Pawsaldo
C.Q.B
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:09:00 -
[573] - Quote
So finally got to the end of this thread after reading it all.
Incredibly entertaining, as it was mostly full of grr goon tinfoil hatters, people who don't read and people who don't know what RMT actually is.
Some posts gave me a down right giggle, CCP Falcon's fifty shades of dumb comment was a highlight.
But thanks to the CSM and CCP community team for getting this sorted quickly and correctly.
|
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
389
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:10:00 -
[574] - Quote
My likes and upvotes. All of them. |
Bobmon
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
77
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:11:00 -
[575] - Quote
With Somer Closing down I would like to point out that there are other sites too that you can use to make lots of isk!
For instance our dear Advertior: iwantIsk.com
Chief Editor of Evenews24.com GÖ¢GÖ¢ #Third Party And #Loan Service GÖ¢GÖ¢ @BobmonEve |
Darbarmic
Cosmic Cimmerians Usurper.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:15:00 -
[576] - Quote
SOMERBLINK created a huge amount of plex sales , from which CCP has been the main benefactor. Plex sales , which wouldnt have otherwise arisen , simply through the content SOMERBLINK provided , wether it be good or bad.
Will CCP be willing to disclose the real money revenue they have enjoyed as a result of SOMERBLINK's content , providing full tranparency, care and concern, and perhaps reimburse the gambling addicts among us . Or possibly fund a gambling rehabilitation program from those proceeds.
Who is really being protected here , the game, the players or the bottom line . |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
153
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:20:00 -
[577] - Quote
Darbarmic wrote:Plex sales , which wouldnt have otherwise arisen A bold claim. Care to show any data to back that up?
Darbarmic wrote:perhaps reimburse the gambling addicts among us Why would they? Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4415
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:22:00 -
[578] - Quote
Darbarmic wrote:SOMERBLINK created a huge amount of plex sales , from which CCP has been the main benefactor. Plex sales , which wouldnt have otherwise arisen , simply through the content SOMERBLINK provided , wether it be good or bad.
Will CCP be willing to disclose the real money revenue they have enjoyed as a result of SOMERBLINK's content , providing full tranparency, care and concern, and perhaps reimburse the gambling addicts among us . Or possibly fund a gambling rehabilitation program from those proceeds.
Who is really being protected here , the game, the players or the bottom line . There is absolutely no way to proof a single PLEX was sold due to SOMER which wouldn't have been sold otherwise. It's all incidental claims. There are no numbers, no comparison and no verifiability. All statements like these try to do is displaying SOMER as a godsend for EVE and CCP being stupid for destroying it.
To me it merely shows what bottom tier opinion manipulation is utilised by SOMER and consorts. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
flakeys
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2417
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:31:00 -
[579] - Quote
It is nice to finally be able to place a face/faces on all the gambling adddicts though.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Han Ostus
Drunken Shipping Drunk Void Drifters
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:32:00 -
[580] - Quote
I've been asking myself, if SOMER was actively encouraging players to spend real money on PLEX to convert into ISK (through them), and then gamble it away on their website, couldn't you make a case that this subjects them to gambling oversight bodies? I.E. wouldn't they need a gambling license? |
|
|
CCP Falcon
8348
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:43:00 -
[581] - Quote
Chribba wrote:I'm happy to see that CCP and CSM have managed to get this resolved so quickly. While it always sucks to see it coming to actions like this I am glad that a stance was taken and violators punished properly (unless there's shady stuff that we don't know of... hope not [*not fully recovered my bitterness from last year]).
Thank you for the update.
/c
No shady stuff, and the reprimands issued are the same as any other player of EVE Online.
The only difference in treatment is the fact that we've publicly spoken about these reprimands, due to the fact that this is a large scale issue that potentially affects tends of thousands of our players.
Hope this answers your concern.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
|
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
20
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:44:00 -
[582] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I'm more wondering why it took players to bring the issue up in the first place. CCP was perfectly capable of visiting the site and looking at the new promotion (literally all they had to do was look at it), do they not keep close tabs on their affiliates?
... Somer is not and never has been an affiliate of CCP. They are a player in EVE, like any other. Period.
Markee Dragon, on the other hand, is an official 3rd party time-code reseller for CCP with an actual business relationship with CCP (except they don't call it a time-code now but, whatever, haven't had coffee yet and I'm not looking up the new name :)
Somer was an affiliate of Markee Dragon under whatever affiliate program Markee has, completely independent from CCP.
THERE IS NO BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SOMER AND CCP, other than as a generic player governed by the EULA. That's kind of the point. When the community reported a player they believed to be violating the EULA, CCP investigated and took action as they would in any other case with any other regular player. EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:44:00 -
[583] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:BigSako wrote:So, technically EvENews24 and TheMittani are both RMT-ing, right? ISK -> Writers Writers -> Articles Users read Articles and see advertisement on website Mittani gets money for advertisement http://i.imgur.com/i6L5GGY.pngjust my .02 ISK. Paying ISK to writers for articles and opinion pieces is explicitly allowed by CCP, as long as they're Eve related. Monetisation of websites via ads is also OK with CCP as far as I know. What isn't allowed is offering an ISK/ingame incentive to buy ETC/GTC from an affiliate, i.e. buying the resulting PLEX back at an inflated ISK price, when that affiliate gives you a RL cash kickback for every sale.
.. its not just EVE Related. http://imgur.com/sCn0H1u
The scenario is basic, certain 3rd parties use ISK to pay EVE Players to create EVE content & services....
This is supposely OK"ed
And one (possibly more) of the 3rd parties uses ISK to pay EVE Players to create content & services that have nothing to do with EVE Online.
This hasnt been answered, and will most likely get ignored unless more focus is shined on it.
Multiple CSM are a part of the "entity" that is doing it so they will deflect away from this. There is also the forum crashers & non sense wing working at odds ends to cover up / jam up everything as best they can. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2766
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:58:00 -
[584] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:BigSako wrote:So, technically EvENews24 and TheMittani are both RMT-ing, right? ISK -> Writers Writers -> Articles Users read Articles and see advertisement on website Mittani gets money for advertisement http://i.imgur.com/i6L5GGY.pngjust my .02 ISK. Paying ISK to writers for articles and opinion pieces is explicitly allowed by CCP, as long as they're Eve related. Monetisation of websites via ads is also OK with CCP as far as I know. What isn't allowed is offering an ISK/ingame incentive to buy ETC/GTC from an affiliate, i.e. buying the resulting PLEX back at an inflated ISK price, when that affiliate gives you a RL cash kickback for every sale. .. its not just EVE Related. http://imgur.com/sCn0H1uThe scenario is basic, certain 3rd parties use ISK to pay EVE Players to create EVE content & services.... This is supposely OK"ed And one (possibly more) of the 3rd parties uses ISK to pay EVE Players to create content & services that have nothing to do with EVE Online. This hasnt been answered, and will most likely get ignored unless more focus is shined on it. Multiple CSM are a part of the "entity" that is doing it so they will deflect away from this. There is also the forum crashers & non sense wing working at odds ends to cover up / jam up everything as best they can. If you have reason to believe a specific site is breaking CCP rules you should send an email to [email protected] with your concerns, not air it out on the forums publicly. |
Darbarmic
Cosmic Cimmerians Usurper.
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 12:59:00 -
[585] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Darbarmic wrote:SOMERBLINK created a huge amount of plex sales , from which CCP has been the main benefactor. Plex sales , which wouldnt have otherwise arisen , simply through the content SOMERBLINK provided , wether it be good or bad.
Will CCP be willing to disclose the real money revenue they have enjoyed as a result of SOMERBLINK's content , providing full tranparency, care and concern, and perhaps reimburse the gambling addicts among us . Or possibly fund a gambling rehabilitation program from those proceeds.
Who is really being protected here , the game, the players or the bottom line . There is absolutely no way to proof a single PLEX was sold due to SOMER which wouldn't have been sold otherwise. It's all incidental claims. There are no numbers, no comparison and no verifiability. All statements like these try to do is displaying SOMER as a godsend for EVE and CCP being stupid for destroying it. To me it merely shows what bottom tier opinion manipulation is utilised by SOMER and consorts.
It is common knowledge , unless you are trolling this topic.
i can provide proof only of plexes i have bought myself for the purpose of playing BLINK.
Order Date: 2014-08-03 Reference: 262676 Markee Dragon Game Codes RECEIPT Sold To:xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com, 0xxxxxxxxxxxxx QtyDescription Price Amount 2Eve Online 2 Plex These codes have a new redemption process. No longer can they be redeemed in game. Please use http://www.eveonline.com/activate to create your PLEX. Fly Safe!34.9969.98 Paid By: PayPal Subtotal: 69.98 Tax: 0.00 Shipping: 0.00 Total: $69.98
Special Instructions
Software Registration Key(s): Eve Online 2 Plex: C9BXSJ5SZSHG4KY9NHMPPKGLV Eve Online 2 Plex: C9BXSNREEYERTZAM2LYVX7U8S
Markee Dragon Game Codes Hereford, AZ, USA 85615 [email protected] (512) 666-7740
For security purposes we have tracked your IP
I have many of these .
plz stay on topic, rather than have me try to prove what i have said .
|
Felicia Tennyson
Tennyson Court
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:31:00 -
[586] - Quote
I can't speak for individuals such as you who bought plexes for the purpose of playing Blink, what I would've assume then is that the more people spend time to play casino online, they spend less time playing spaceships online.
Maybe this explains why the PCU peaked out about 3 years ago and declining ever since somercasino online grew bigger and bigger. The space is already empty, don't make it emptier by only using Eve client as a wallet storing your in-game currency and facilitate ISK transactions and actually spend more time play on the casino website, it's hurting the game environment more than helping (since you are really not playing spaceship online but casino online).
you may as well make EveCoin with EveCoinWallet and join the bitcoin wagon and go gamble with plenty of bitcoin casino and pokers around the cyberspace
|
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:34:00 -
[587] - Quote
Garai Nolen wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I'm more wondering why it took players to bring the issue up in the first place. CCP was perfectly capable of visiting the site and looking at the new promotion (literally all they had to do was look at it), do they not keep close tabs on their affiliates? ... Somer is not and never has been an affiliate of CCP. They are a player in EVE, like any other. Period. Markee Dragon, on the other hand, is an official 3rd party time-code reseller for CCP with an actual business relationship with CCP (except they don't call it a time-code now but, whatever, haven't had coffee yet and I'm not looking up the new name :) Somer was an affiliate of Markee Dragon under whatever affiliate program Markee has, completely independent from CCP. THERE IS NO BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SOMER AND CCP, other than as a generic player governed by the EULA. That's kind of the point. When the community reported a player they believed to be violating the EULA, CCP investigated and took action as they would in any other case with any other regular player.
Hmm no business contract existed as far as I know but CCP promoted them (i.e. on the login screen), helped them with promotions and events, etc. the relationship between them certainly wasn't the same as a generic player.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:carbomb wrote:I might be wrong, quite often am but this seems to me that someone at ccp signed off on this without reading it properly. Someone higher caught it after the scheme had started and called a stop. Somer in protest posted copies of the conversations showing the given consent and rather than admit that they f**ked up, ccp digs a breach of service out of their pocket and bans somer.
just saying Someone in sales, who should have passed it to legal but didn't, signed off on a proposal that was worded in such a way that it appeared to say one thing, and meant another, thus obscuring the true intent. TL;DR SomerBlink attempted to pull the wool over CCP's eyes, and failed due to those pesky Eve players.
Did you actually read the proposal? because if what CCP got was word for word as posted by Somer its pretty clear as to its intentions - if Somer intentionally side stepped CCP procedure to get someone to OK it under another pretext, et. then tht is another matter and one I have no info on. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2914
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:34:00 -
[588] - Quote
Hawkr Trimodian wrote:And What about that Volcano. I am convinced this is the gods being offended by the unfair Treatment of Somer........ A huge volcano in Iceland may be getting ready to erupt: [Update, Aug. 20, 2014: Iceland's National Crisis Coordination Center has been activated, and a large uninhabited area surrounding the volcano has been evacuated. The Icelandic Met Office reports that about 1,000 small earthquakes occurred near the volcano on Tuesday. Also on Tuesday, Iceland's Civil Protection raised the nation's threat level from Uncertainty Phase to Alert Phase.]
Wait wait...how do you evacuate an uninhabited area? Did they import people to evacuate? De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4417
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:36:00 -
[589] - Quote
Darbarmic wrote:rather than have me try to prove what i have said . Do you even realize how silly this sounds? Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20291
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:36:00 -
[590] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote: its not just EVE Related. http://imgur.com/sCn0H1uThe scenario is basic, certain 3rd parties use ISK to pay EVE Players to create EVE content & services.... This is supposely OK"ed And one (possibly more) of the 3rd parties uses ISK to pay EVE Players to create content & services that have nothing to do with EVE Online. This hasnt been answered, and will most likely get ignored unless more focus is shined on it. Multiple CSM are a part of the "entity" that is doing it so they will deflect away from this. There is also the forum crashers & non sense wing working at odds ends to cover up / jam up everything as best they can. TMC stopped paying isk for non eve related content after the last SomerBlink debacle as far as I know; as it was deemed to be in contravention of CCP's policy with regards to isk for OOG services. A member of the mittens.com staff/mods team will be able to confirm this one way or the other.
If you feel that TMC has broken the rules, you should take it up with CCP, who will investigate the allegation and deal with it accordingly; probably by filing under B for burn it and then throwing all related paperwork into the nearest volcano because the allegation had no substance.
Also there appears to be something missing from your image, a date stamp, without it there's no way of telling how old it is.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
|
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
368
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:39:00 -
[591] - Quote
I'm extremely disappointed, even disgusted by how this was handled. CCP Falcon, how low you have fallen. This whole thing was nothing more than a CCP sponsored and CSM fueled witch hunt.
Somer had authorization from your own VP and then you go ahead claiming this was not from your 'legal' department and therefore not valid. Are you for real? What kind of shoddy internal system do you have, if your VP can make deals without running them past legal first? I don't know if that's just sheer incompetence or pure amateurism. To then come back on them, at the expense of one of your players is completely unacceptable.
Secondly, you take actions against Somer's accounts because he disclosed 'private' communication. These are message between in this context, corporate entities. Not CCP and a player. He is well within his rights to publish approval or permission given for certain promotions and say they were approved by CCP, if in fact your own VP approved them in the first place.
You had a CSM fueled witch hunt, with our precious Goon CSMs leading the charge. And CCP sponsored it all, threw Somer to the wolves. I'm so disappointed by how you handled this, words can't express.
You caused this situation and you sacrificed Somer hoping it would calm the masses. You should be ashamed of yourself, truly. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23995
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:41:00 -
[592] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:.. its not just EVE Related. http://imgur.com/sCn0H1uThe scenario is basic, certain 3rd parties use ISK to pay EVE Players to create EVE content & services.... This is supposely OK"ed And one (possibly more) of the 3rd parties uses ISK to pay EVE Players to create content & services that have nothing to do with EVE Online. Do you have any proof of this? And to qualify as RMT, do you have any evidence that the ISK is paid out in exchange for real cash?
Rroff wrote:Did you actually read the proposal? because if what CCP got was word for word as posted by Somer its pretty clear as to its intentions The intent was clear after the fact when it became apparent how you were meant to parse the sentences (which was different from the intuitive sense). Even so, the way it was actually enacted was now how it was described GÇö the proposal was written to suggest that no extra ISK would be paid out, and the actual scheme hinged entirely on extra ISK being paid out. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
252
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:44:00 -
[593] - Quote
Describing a post as 'lawyer-speak' (or did I say lawyer language?) is now a personal attack. That's rich.
...
CCP has always known that Somer made money from his website. CCP gave this guy unique ships just for kicks. CCP's VP of Sales corresponded with this guy regularly. CCP approved this latest promotion and learned about it FROM SOMER HIMSELF, not through some SUPER-AWESOME investigation. CCP's VP of Sales thought Somer was JOKING when he asked for consent from legal (presumably because the idea was so preposterous to her.)
If this episode is so wonderfully 'transparent' then why doesn't the initial post contain any of that information?
If Somer was just a player like everyone else and didn't have a business relationship with CCP, I would also like (as a regular player of EVE Online like Somer) regular emails from CCP's VP of Sales making friendly inquiries into my plans for the month.
...
As far as RMT, I loathe gold farmers who then turn around and RMT because that combination breaks MMO's. But it's the gold farming, the botting, the multi-boxers, the exploiters who break the game for people who play the game as intended (because it becomes impossible for them to compete.) NOT some guy who runs a gambling website and makes a few shekels out of the deal with CCP's full knowledge and consent and then gets banned because someone at CCP got butthurt that actual communications demonstrating shady behavior by CCP (yet again) were made public.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23997
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:46:00 -
[594] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:I'm extremely disappointed, even disgusted by how this was handled. CCP Falcon, how low you have fallen. This whole thing was nothing more than a CCP sponsored and CSM fueled witch hunt. How on earth is it a witch hunt? They're enforcing the EULA GÇö is this now a bad thing?
Quote:You had a CSM fueled witch hunt, with our precious Goon CSMs leading the charge. What do the goons have to do with anything and why does it matter? How is it a GÇ£goon CSMGÇ¥ when 85% of the CSM aren't goons? You're not making any sense here.
AkJon Ferguson wrote:CCP has always known that Somer made money from his website. CCP gave this guy unique ships just for kicks. CCP's VP of Sales corresponded with this guy regularly. CCP approved this latest promotion and learned about it FROM SOMER HIMSELF, not through some SUPER-AWESOME investigation. Making money was never the issue. And no, CCP did not approve this latest promotion GÇö they approved something very different, that Somer then used as a cover for a drastically different scheme that broke the rules.
Quote:As far as RMT, I loathe gold farmers who then turn around and RMT because that combination breaks MMO's. But But nothing. RMT isn't allowed. Period. The form is irrelevant. You don't get to skip past the rules just because you don't engage in the regular type of rule-breaking and instead come up with a new kind. He could have made money without RMTing but instead chose to simply revive a simplified version of the same scheme that was shut down hard a year ago. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:48:00 -
[595] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:Secondly, you take actions against Somer's accounts because he disclosed 'private' communication. These are message between in this context, corporate entities. Not CCP and a player. He is well within his rights to publish approval or permission given for certain promotions and say they were approved by CCP, if in fact your own VP approved them in the first place.
No, they aren't. If they were, he'd already be in violation of the EULA for being a "corporate entity" using EVE for business purposes. These were precisely between "CCP and a player". Anything else would be exactly the sort of privileged/special/favouritist relationship that CCP is/was accused of fostering with Somer, which is pretty much THE source of the community backlash.
As for his rights to publish them... certainly, he is well within his legal rights to publish (in most jurisdictions anyway). But CCP can ban his accounts for any reason they see fit, and publishing private CCP correspondence is one of those reasons clearly spelled out in the EULA that people get smacked with all the time.
Pretty much all of your arguments appeal to Somer's "special status", which is exactly the problem. No other player entity enjoys this special status with CCP. If CCP wants to spell out how we can apply for this same special status, great, we'll all be on even footing with Somer. Otherwise they MUST treat Somer like any average Joe regular player subject to the same EULA as anyone else, because that's exactly what he is. EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20291
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:53:00 -
[596] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:carbomb wrote:I might be wrong, quite often am but this seems to me that someone at ccp signed off on this without reading it properly. Someone higher caught it after the scheme had started and called a stop. Somer in protest posted copies of the conversations showing the given consent and rather than admit that they f**ked up, ccp digs a breach of service out of their pocket and bans somer.
just saying Someone in sales, who should have passed it to legal but didn't, signed off on a proposal that was worded in such a way that it appeared to say one thing, and meant another, thus obscuring the true intent. TL;DR SomerBlink attempted to pull the wool over CCP's eyes, and failed due to those pesky Eve players. Did you actually read the proposal? because if what CCP got was word for word as posted by Somer its pretty clear as to its intentions - if Somer intentionally side stepped CCP procedure to get someone to OK it under another pretext, etc. then that is another matter and one I have no info on. Yes I've read the proposal, have you?
Proposal, with the relevant parts highlighted for your convenience The justification is an outright lie, SomerBlink was rewarding players with extra isk by paying above market value for the PLEX they were purchasing.
The highlighted part of the workflow doesn't specify the price that SomerBlink would pay for the PLEX, it merely says best price. Which is basically an ambigous term to try and cover their arse.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:53:00 -
[597] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=ExplorerAlTNewb]The intent was clear after the fact when it became apparent how you were meant to parse the sentences (which was different from the intuitive sense). Even so, the way it was actually enacted was now how it was described GÇö the proposal was written to suggest that no extra ISK would be paid out, and the actual scheme hinged entirely on extra ISK being paid out.
The bit about extra ISK was context sensitive albeit in the description of a relatively complex system I can see why people might lose sight of the context but it was pretty plain to me on first read (as you can see in the Somer thread where I explained how it worked before all this kicked off). |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
252
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:54:00 -
[598] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:I'm extremely disappointed, even disgusted by how this was handled. CCP Falcon, how low you have fallen. This whole thing was nothing more than a CCP sponsored and CSM fueled witch hunt.
Somer had authorization from your own VP and then you go ahead claiming this was not from your 'legal' department and therefore not valid. Are you for real? What kind of shoddy internal system do you have, if your VP can make deals without running them past legal first? I don't know if that's just sheer incompetence or pure amateurism. To then come back on them, at the expense of one of your players is completely unacceptable.
Secondly, you take actions against Somer's accounts because he disclosed 'private' communication. These are message between in this context, corporate entities. Not CCP and a player. He is well within his rights to publish approval or permission given for certain promotions and say they were approved by CCP, if in fact your own VP approved them in the first place.
You had a CSM fueled witch hunt, with our precious Goon CSMs leading the charge. And CCP sponsored it all, threw Somer to the wolves. I'm so disappointed by how you handled this, words can't express.
You caused this situation and you sacrificed Somer hoping it would calm the masses. You should be ashamed of yourself, truly.
You captured it so well. Thanks.
I'm especially disgusted with Mang and Ali who were both +5 before this incident but have demonstrated themselves to be complete tools. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6036
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 13:55:00 -
[599] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Hawkr Trimodian wrote:And What about that Volcano. I am convinced this is the gods being offended by the unfair Treatment of Somer........ A huge volcano in Iceland may be getting ready to erupt: [Update, Aug. 20, 2014: Iceland's National Crisis Coordination Center has been activated, and a large uninhabited area surrounding the volcano has been evacuated. The Icelandic Met Office reports that about 1,000 small earthquakes occurred near the volcano on Tuesday. Also on Tuesday, Iceland's Civil Protection raised the nation's threat level from Uncertainty Phase to Alert Phase.] Wait wait...how do you evacuate an uninhabited area? Did they import people to evacuate?
A common necessity. They have to canvas the area and run-off all of the looky-loos who inventively want to gawk at things like this first-hand.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23997
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:00:00 -
[600] - Quote
Rroff wrote:The bit about extra ISK was context sensitive albeit in the description of a relatively complex system I can see why people might lose sight of the context but it was pretty plain to me on first read (as you can see in the Somer thread where I explained how it worked before all this kicked off). GǪand that GÇ£context sensitivenessGÇ¥ is there solely to confuse matter and hide what is actually going on: namely that, contrary to the rules and contrary to the policy put in place the last time he tried this scheme, extra ISK will be paid out for ensuring that he gets real-life cash. If it's context sensitive, it has no place in the proposal GÇö it is only injected to throw off the perception of (read: lie about) how the program will work.
There is exactly one mention of extra ISK in the proposal, in a sentence that claims there will be none. That is because if the proposal would describe where the extra ISK comes in, it would instantly be slapped down for the RMT scheme (carbon-copied from last year) it is.
Garai Nolen wrote:No, they aren't. If they were, he'd already be in violation of the EULA for being a "corporate entity" using EVE for business purposes. These were precisely between "CCP and a player". Anything else would be exactly the sort of privileged/special/favouritist relationship that CCP is/was accused of fostering with Somer, which is pretty much THE source of the community backlash.
As for his rights to publish them... certainly, he is well within his legal rights to publish (in most jurisdictions anyway). But CCP can ban his accounts for any reason they see fit, and publishing private CCP correspondence is one of those reasons clearly spelled out in the EULA that people get smacked with all the time. GǪand, if anything, the GÇ£corporate entityGÇ¥ defence would mean that he was leaking corporate deal flow information, which is an even bigger nono and very possible real-life illegal, depending on the partnership structure. If that's the view one wants to take, he should probably be happy that all that happened was a ban, as opposed to a ban and a hoard of bearded Icelandic vikings lawyers (arguably much more frightening) ripping his business apart. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
|
SomeDudeInLocal
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:05:00 -
[601] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Rroff wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:carbomb wrote:I might be wrong, quite often am but this seems to me that someone at ccp signed off on this without reading it properly. Someone higher caught it after the scheme had started and called a stop. Somer in protest posted copies of the conversations showing the given consent and rather than admit that they f**ked up, ccp digs a breach of service out of their pocket and bans somer.
just saying Someone in sales, who should have passed it to legal but didn't, signed off on a proposal that was worded in such a way that it appeared to say one thing, and meant another, thus obscuring the true intent. TL;DR SomerBlink attempted to pull the wool over CCP's eyes, and failed due to those pesky Eve players. Did you actually read the proposal? because if what CCP got was word for word as posted by Somer its pretty clear as to its intentions - if Somer intentionally side stepped CCP procedure to get someone to OK it under another pretext, etc. then that is another matter and one I have no info on. Yes I've read the proposal, have you? Proposal, with the relevant parts highlighted for your convenience The justification is an outright lie, SomerBlink was rewarding players with extra isk by paying above market value for the PLEX they were purchasing. The highlighted part of the workflow doesn't specify the price that SomerBlink would pay for the PLEX, it merely says best price. Which is basically an ambigous term to try and cover their arse.
Well, buying plex for above the average market price isn't really committing RMT on its own. If you bought plex through legit means such as an approved reseller or CCP directly you can sell it at whatever price you want to, same applies for buying plex from someone who got it in a timecode or such. Market prices in EVE pose no restrictions as its all player driven.
The main reason somer got into trouble was because he stated CCP approved something they actually didn't, and because he posted a log of an email without permission. The RMT element is still at CCP's discretion as to whether it occured, as Falcon mentioned they have nothing to say on it.
Dont get me wrong, Somer deceived CCP and anyone who bought from the service with the whole CCP Approval thing and also basically gave a '**** you' to all by pulling the service.
|
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
253
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:08:00 -
[602] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:The highlighted part of the workflow doesn't specify the price that SomerBlink would pay for the PLEX, it merely says best price. Which is basically an ambigous term to try and cover their arse.
The BEST price, in context, clearly means the highest price. There is nothing ambiguous about it. Which is why the proposal even mentions that it will prevent people from buying PLEX in Jita and then selling it to Blink.
"You can only sell 2 PLEX at this rate for each ETC you purchased (so you can't just go buy PLEX in Jita and resell them to Blink for more than you paid.)"
It's right there in the proposal that the rate would be MORE than Jita prices.
But you knew that already, didn't you?
|
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
156
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:08:00 -
[603] - Quote
Guess who called it?!
I want the community team to know how amazingly this was handled. Wonderful job guys. TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23998
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:10:00 -
[604] - Quote
SomeDudeInLocal wrote:Well, buying plex for above the average market price isn't really committing RMT on its own. If you bought plex through legit means such as an approved reseller or CCP directly you can sell it at whatever price you want to, same applies for buying plex from someone who got it in a timecode or such. Market prices in EVE pose no restrictions as its all player driven. The interesting part is that it could still be RMT even if he bought them at half market price. As long as the in-game trade is contingent on an out-of-game trade, it raises the RMT flag. Sure, at that point, it would be very unfavourable RMT (for the ISK buyer) so there would be absolutely no incentive to engage in it, but the nature of the thing doesn't really change just because it's too poorly set up to attract any customersGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20293
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:11:00 -
[605] - Quote
SomeDudeInLocal wrote: Well, buying plex for above the average market price isn't really committing RMT on its own.
True enough, but when you combine it with a RL cash payment for every one purchased from your affiliate, who is receiving increased trade due to your promotion it becomes RMT.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6037
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:12:00 -
[606] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Rroff wrote:The bit about extra ISK was context sensitive albeit in the description of a relatively complex system I can see why people might lose sight of the context but it was pretty plain to me on first read (as you can see in the Somer thread where I explained how it worked before all this kicked off). GǪand that GÇ£context sensitivenessGÇ¥ is there solely to confuse matter and hide what is actually going on: namely that, contrary to the rules and contrary to the policy put in place the last time he tried this scheme, extra ISK will be paid out for ensuring that he gets real-life cash. If it's context sensitive, it has no place in the proposal GÇö it is only injected to throw off the perception of (read: lie about) how the program will work. There is exactly one mention of extra ISK in the proposal, in a sentence that claims there will be none. That is because if the proposal would describe where the extra ISK comes in, it would instantly be slapped down for the RMT scheme (carbon-copied from last year) it is. Garai Nolen wrote:No, they aren't. If they were, he'd already be in violation of the EULA for being a "corporate entity" using EVE for business purposes. These were precisely between "CCP and a player". Anything else would be exactly the sort of privileged/special/favouritist relationship that CCP is/was accused of fostering with Somer, which is pretty much THE source of the community backlash.
As for his rights to publish them... certainly, he is well within his legal rights to publish (in most jurisdictions anyway). But CCP can ban his accounts for any reason they see fit, and publishing private CCP correspondence is one of those reasons clearly spelled out in the EULA that people get smacked with all the time. GǪand, if anything, the GÇ£corporate entityGÇ¥ defence would mean that he was leaking corporate deal flow information, which is an even bigger nono and very possible real-life illegal, depending on the partnership structure. If that's the view one wants to take, he should probably be happy that all that happened was a ban, as opposed to a ban and a hoard of bearded Icelandic vikings lawyers (arguably much more frightening) ripping his business apart. Doc Fury wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Wait wait...how do you evacuate an uninhabited area? Did they import people to evacuate? A common necessity. They have to canvas the area and run-off all of the looky-loos who inventively gather and want to gawk at things like this first-hand. Also, people aren't the only thing you'd want to evacuate GÇö a field of cows is generally considered uninhabited too, for instance, and expensive livestock is probably something you want to save.
Now I'm imagining a Puffin round-up...
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23998
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:14:00 -
[607] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:The BEST price, in context, clearly means the highest price. So you're saying that this part of the proposal was a lie too GÇö yet another thing that was in the proposal but not actually how it worked?
Quote:Which is why the proposal even mentions that it will prevent people from buying PLEX in Jita and then selling it to Blink. GǪexcept that it doesn't do that at all. What prevents that from happening is the PLEX credit system. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2915
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:15:00 -
[608] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Hawkr Trimodian wrote:And What about that Volcano. I am convinced this is the gods being offended by the unfair Treatment of Somer........ A huge volcano in Iceland may be getting ready to erupt: [Update, Aug. 20, 2014: Iceland's National Crisis Coordination Center has been activated, and a large uninhabited area surrounding the volcano has been evacuated. The Icelandic Met Office reports that about 1,000 small earthquakes occurred near the volcano on Tuesday. Also on Tuesday, Iceland's Civil Protection raised the nation's threat level from Uncertainty Phase to Alert Phase.] Wait wait...how do you evacuate an uninhabited area? Did they import people to evacuate? A common necessity. They have to canvas the area and run-off all of the looky-loos who inventively gather and want to gawk at things like this first-hand.
This is the part I don't get. But then, I don't really get the people who build multi-million dollar houses on tiny little islands 2 feet above sea level in the path of on coming hurricanes either. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20293
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:17:00 -
[609] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:It's right there in the proposal that the rate would be MORE than Jita prices. Jita prices aren't always the best, I can sell a PLEX for marginally more elsewhere, but it's generally not worth the hassle.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:26:00 -
[610] - Quote
To be honest I don't remember it being termed as "best" price when I read it, I seem to remember it being less ambiguously termed than that (as can be seen in my explanation in the other thread) but between lack of sleep and the possibility it may have been edited since not sure if it was me misreading it or not. |
|
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
804
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:29:00 -
[611] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:The highlighted part of the workflow doesn't specify the price that SomerBlink would pay for the PLEX, it merely says best price. Which is basically an ambigous term to try and cover their arse. The BEST price, in context, clearly means the highest price. There is nothing ambiguous about it. Which is why the proposal even mentions that it will prevent people from buying PLEX in Jita and then selling it to Blink. "You can only sell 2 PLEX at this rate for each ETC you purchased (so you can't just go buy PLEX in Jita and resell them to Blink for more than you paid.)" It's right there in the proposal that the rate would be MORE than Jita prices. But you knew that already, didn't you?
More than jita buy, or more than jita sell? Is Jita price the highest price in the Eve Universe? The point of the sentence that you linked is to highlight that you have to use ETC to do the transfer, you cannot just buy at Jita price and sell to Somer saving yourself the broker fee.
"Best price" is a vague term, used to cover a multitude of sins. If they had said "We will buy at Jita sell + 15%" do you think CCP would have written back with the response their sales department gave? Fluffy Bunny Pic! |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
253
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:29:00 -
[612] - Quote
Now, having defended the victim, I'll say this:
I don't approve of any RMT, even CCP-approved RMT that is fueled by an out-of-game gambling website and not by destructive in-game activities (like botting, multi-boxing and exploiting.) But it's not Somer's fault that CCP approved his RMT scheme and then banned him.
CCP never should have given this guy unique ships, formed a business relationship with him (by basically giving his business the CCP stamp of legitimacy, which it clearly did,) or approved this scheme in the first place.
That's all CCP's fault, though, not Somer's. Who wouldn't convert trillions of play money into real life cash if they were told by the game developer that it was okay to do it?
The appropriate way to handle this was to say to Somer:
Look, sorry, we've changed our minds about that scheme of yours we approved. It's no longer authorized. You have 2 weeks to take it down and then we won't allow any further RMT-lite schemes like the many we've approved in the past. If you persist beyond those 2 weeks, all your accounts will be permabanned.
Fly Safe. |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:43:00 -
[613] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
The appropriate way to handle this was to say to Somer:
Look, sorry, we've changed our minds about that scheme of yours we approved. It's no longer authorized. You have 2 weeks to take it down and then we won't allow any further RMT-lite schemes like the many we've approved in the past. If you persist beyond those 2 weeks, all your accounts will be permabanned.
They pretty much did that last year. Somer's response was to go balls out during the grace period with 1bil isk bonuses per plex purchase. He got arrogant and thought he was too big to fail after CCP let him get away with that disgraceful stunt.
I remember that when he stopped that first scheme he was at the same time blaming it on a goon conspiracy and promising he'd figure out a loophole. He thought he did but Eve players were too clever for him. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2915
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 14:44:00 -
[614] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:Now, having defended the victim, I'll say this:
Somer was not a victim, or if he was, he was a victim only of his own scheme. Somer is more accurately described as the perpetrator.
De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
1113
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 15:00:00 -
[615] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:Henry Plantgenet wrote:i wonder if every CCP member has to consult the legal team before making a forum post. But they are read and judged *) by CCL. Does that count? *) = Only as far as the forum rules go mind you... Devposts being edited and handslapped by ISD is a rare but very lovely sight ;)
CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
|
SomeDudeInLocal
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 15:04:00 -
[616] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:AkJon Ferguson wrote:Now, having defended the victim, I'll say this: Somer was not a victim, or if he was, he was a victim only of his own scheme. Somer is more accurately described as the perpetrator.
Pretty much. The victims are more likely the users he falsely led into believing the service had CCP's Authorisation when he knew it really didn't.
He closed shop and ran before he was even banned, he doesn't care about EVE. The people he misled into using the supposed legit service for getting isk for their plex that do enjoy EVE However... |
Alexis Nightwish
State War Academy Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:04:00 -
[617] - Quote
CCP is that a spine I see? Wow it looks great on you! You should keep it! |
NathanNever80
Apple Construction Inc
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:22:00 -
[618] - Quote
Well having read most of this Good Job CCP, shame about all the Rare stuff that got banned along with Somer.
Maybe CCP should Auction off all the items and donate the proceeds to a charity of the CSM's choice.
Just a thought.
NN |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
196
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:24:00 -
[619] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:AkJon Ferguson wrote:Now, having defended the victim, I'll say this: Somer was not a victim, or if he was, he was a victim only of his own scheme. Somer is more accurately described as the perpetrator. This is the third time Somer has been a Victim.
Fist time was his first "scheme".. That ran for YEARS, with full CCP Knowledge, to the point CCP even advertised his game on the old Character Selection Screen, in the community section of the website several times.
Second time was when CCP GAVE them Ships, both the rare Scorps, and the big blast rare ships. Even if Somer had of asked for them, it was CCP that gave them all out.
This is the Third, where Somer gave them a document, lacking in clear detail, and they just rubber stamped it. Even after Somer asked it to go through Legal, they said Nope, not need, it's fine. They gave clear Authorization without knowing the details. Then not only went back on it once they did know the details, but now CCP maintains they didn't Authorize it. YES YOU DID.
"Best Price" could mean anything. Anyone with half a brain would have asked Somer "How are you going to determine your buy price for the PLEX?".. But not CCP.. CPP just said it's fine, and authorized, several times.
I don't like that Somer released the mails, but even this is a huge grey area. For one, this wasn't an ingame character talking to CCP via mechanics. This was the Business of SomerBlink talking with the VP of Sales for CCP Games. This communication can in no way be covered by the EULA. It's not in game.
What happened here was CCP got caught with their poor decision making skills, and internal communication. Rather than fess up and admit it. Rather than say "Yes we gave approval to Somer to do something like this. It WASN'T Properly vetted. It SHOULD NOT have been approved. But that was our mistake and WE will attempt to CORRECT IT".. They said OMG we had NO idea. Then took down Somer to distract everyone from their own faults.
Somer isn't innocent in this. They released the emails even before a decision was made. And they clearly worded the proposal in a vague way. But it is CCP's fault it ever got this far. |
MRS AWSOME COOL
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:27:00 -
[620] - Quote
Since we are discussing people who violate the EULA in order to generate real life income, I feel it might be worth mentioning the Mittani.com, which also appears to violate the EULA (or at the very least occupy a grey area). The EULA States:
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
The Mittani.com pays its contributes with in game currency, and then profits in ad revenue from the content thereby generated. This does not appear to be straight forward RMT. However, it is exchanging in game items for out of game services. Essentially isk is being sold in exchange for out of game labor (which then generates real life income).
It does not specify in the EULA that only direct monitory transactions are prohibited. Thus, it seems reasonable to assume that it also covers transactions involving non liquid assets and services as well. Especially considering the following: if someone was wealthy out of game and decided to, say, bankroll an alliance by offering (non- monetary) services or assets to an individual who was wealthy in game in exchange for isk, then CCP would likely appeal to this clause when taking sanctions against the involved players. However, unless the clause is read in such away that it extends to non-monetary out of game goods and services it is not clear that they would be able to. If this reading of the EULA is correct then it appears that themittani.com violates it.
Thus it appears that another popular eve website may have been violating the eve EULA for years as well (also in order to generate real life revenue). |
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
220
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:32:00 -
[621] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Deka Ekato wrote:I really do feel, (and from what I understand), that Somer was not punished for RMT, (which he should be), but for some other reason(s). There is basically 3 reasons he was punished. The first is the RMT, the second would be falsely claiming that the scheme as it is was CCP approved, the third would be publicly posting the private emails with CCP.
Incorrect. RMT was not, in any capacity, mentioned as why he was banned. That is specifically stated by CCP Falcon in the OP. It was only stated that Somer was investigated for alleged RMTing but that CCP will not comment on what their investigation found.
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:.. its not just EVE Related. http://imgur.com/sCn0H1uThe scenario is basic, certain 3rd parties use ISK to pay EVE Players to create EVE content & services.... This is supposely OK"ed And one (possibly more) of the 3rd parties uses ISK to pay EVE Players to create content & services that have nothing to do with EVE Online. This hasnt been answered, and will most likely get ignored unless more focus is shined on it. Multiple CSM are a part of the "entity" that is doing it so they will deflect away from this. There is also the forum crashers & non sense wing working at odds ends to cover up / jam up everything as best they can.
You will need to provide proof that TMC is paying it's writers in-game ISK explicitly for their non-EVE related work then. You're making claims based off zero provided evidence outside the fact that TMC covers non-EVE content. They are well within their write to cover non-EVE games, they aren't however permitted to pay any writer EVE's in-game ISK for non-EVE content. This has been stated numerous times because last year after the Somer debate, CCP went to those sites and laid out the guidelines. If you have evidence that proves they're paying their staff. You also are linking to an image that is over a year old (pro-tip how do I know? Because I worked for TMC and know their pre-SomerGate 1.0 policies and post-SomerGate 1.0 policies and that is pre-SomerGate policy). Still though, if you're dead set on it being illegal RMTng then contact CCP and explain how it's a violation of the policies.
LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
TheButcherPete
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
480
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:35:00 -
[622] - Quote
MRS AWSOME COOL wrote:Since we are discussing people who violate the EULA in order to generate real life income, I feel it might be worth mentioning the Mittani.com, which also appears to violate the EULA (or at the very least occupy a grey area). The EULA States:
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
The Mittani.com pays its contributes with in game currency, and then profits in ad revenue from the content thereby generated. This does not appear to be straight forward RMT. However, it is exchanging in game items for out of game services. Essentially isk is being sold in exchange for out of game labor (which then generates real life income).
It does not specify in the EULA that only direct monitory transactions are prohibited. Thus, it seems reasonable to assume that it also covers transactions involving non liquid assets and services as well. Especially considering the following: if someone was wealthy out of game and decided to, say, bankroll an alliance by offering (non- monetary) services or assets to an individual who was wealthy in game in exchange for isk, then CCP would likely appeal to this clause when taking sanctions against the involved players. However, unless the clause is read in such away that it extends to non-monetary out of game goods and services it is not clear that they would be able to. If this reading of the EULA is correct then it appears that themittani.com violates it.
Thus it appears that another popular eve website may have been violating the eve EULA for years as well (also in order to generate real life revenue).
TMC has a very specific greenlight from CCP to give isk to writers ONLY FOR ARTICLES RELATING TO EVE ONLINE.
Any other, is RMT. THE KING OF EVE RADIO
If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs? |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
220
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:39:00 -
[623] - Quote
Garai Nolen wrote:Now I'm imagining a Puffin round-up...
I'm now imagining a Pompeii like area of Iceland, just with penguins instead of humans.
MRS AWSOME COOL wrote:Since we are discussing people who violate the EULA in order to generate real life income, I feel it might be worth mentioning the Mittani.com, which also appears to violate the EULA (or at the very least occupy a grey area). The EULA States:
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
The Mittani.com pays its contributes with in game currency, and then profits in ad revenue from the content thereby generated. This does not appear to be straight forward RMT. However, it is exchanging in game items for out of game services. Essentially isk is being sold in exchange for out of game labor (which then generates real life income).
It does not specify in the EULA that only direct monitory transactions are prohibited. Thus, it seems reasonable to assume that it also covers transactions involving non liquid assets and services as well. Especially considering the following: if someone was wealthy out of game and decided to, say, bankroll an alliance by offering (non- monetary) services or assets to an individual who was wealthy in game in exchange for isk, then CCP would likely appeal to this clause when taking sanctions against the involved players. However, unless the clause is read in such away that it extends to non-monetary out of game goods and services it is not clear that they would be able to. If this reading of the EULA is correct then it appears that themittani.com violates it.
Thus it appears that another popular eve website may have been violating the eve EULA for years as well (also in order to generate real life revenue).
That's all well and good, except CCP approved paying people in-game ISK for EVE related content including videos for AT ads, forum signatures, and yes even articles. It's why sites like DotLan, ZKillboard, etc. are allowed to function while running Ads. Considering TMC, EN24, CZ and other sites were spoken to by CCP after the SomerGate 1.0 issue last year about their payment methods to their contributors and the specific guidelines they're required to follow, I'm going to assume you're bringing this up with little to no understanding of the differences nor the guidelines they're to follow, and simply want to point the finger at someone else and rumor monger while you're at it.
Still though, as regularly stated in this thread by people who are making these brazen claims sans contradicting evidence and the statements by CCP of old if you think they're breaking EULA contact CCP Falcon and CCP's Support team [email protected] outlining how they've broken EULA/TOS in your mind. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4150
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:39:00 -
[624] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:A common necessity. They have to canvas the area and run-off all of the looky-loos who inventively gather and want to gawk at things like this first-hand. Let them gawk. Why interrupt natural selection while it's working? The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24004
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:40:00 -
[625] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:This is the third time Somer has been a Victim perpetrator. Fixed. He has never been a victim of anything other than his own RMT schemes exploding in his face.
Quote:Somer isn't innocent in this. GǪand everything else is irrelevant as far as determining who the victim is. It sure isn't Somer.
MRS AWSOME COOL wrote:Since we are discussing people who violate the EULA in order to generate real life income, I feel it might be worth mentioning the Mittani.com, which also appears to violate the EULA (or at the very least occupy a grey area). GǪexcept, of couse, that TMC does not do any of the things listed in that paragraph. They pay contributors with ISK for sending in EVE-related articles, which is a kind of service that has been explicitly allowed and clarified over and over, time and time again, for many many years.
There is no tit-for-tat between handing over cash to TMC and receiving ISK in return. Those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. Yes, there is a party that provides ISK and gets cash, but there is no relation or connection between those transactions GÇö it's not RMT for the same reason as drawing a salary from your job is not RMT. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:43:00 -
[626] - Quote
its almost like people dont wanna hear, or just cant handle the truth
i would have an awesome meme for this if i had the backend forum permissions that falcon does |
MRS AWSOME COOL
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:45:00 -
[627] - Quote
Ah fair enough. In that case is there an actual explicit statement on what is or is not ok? Because the EULA itself is extremely ambiguous and doesn't cover any of the stuff just mentioned. |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:50:00 -
[628] - Quote
The evidence is concrete that Goons are participating in RMT between the video http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s
and the image http://i.imgur.com/sCn0H1u.jpg how much more evidence is needed to get the ball rolling into an investigation to get bans handed out appropriately and swiftly?
Goon lovers go ahead rebut the claims its in black and white and clearly stated and even on video!
To break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT.
The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month, what does Astronomy have to do with Eve? Nothing now Goon lovers take off the Arabian sun goggles open your eyes the evidence doesn't lie. |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:51:00 -
[629] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:The evidence is concrete that Goons are participating in RMT between the video http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55sand the image http://i.imgur.com/sCn0H1u.jpg how much more evidence is needed to get the ball rolling into an investigation to get bans handed out appropriately and swiftly? Goon lovers go ahead rebut the claims its in black and white and clearly stated and even on video! To break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT. The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month, what does Astronomy have to do with Eve? Nothing now Goon lovers take off the Arabian sun goggles open your eyes the evidence doesn't lie. security@ccpgames GO |
Paranoid Lunatic
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:51:00 -
[630] - Quote
Ok so if CCP gave the green light to TMC to pay people in isk for services rendered (articles) and TMC receives real life money for people going to his site by way of add or what have you then according to the EULA that is RMT and CCP SAYS THAT IS OK. If CCP allows any form of RMT then we will always have problems. There needs to be a rule set in stone about RMT with no exceptions. That way there will be no discretion as to what is RMT and that will cut down on all the accusations, which will in turn give CCP more time to deal with more pressing matters. |
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
220
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:54:00 -
[631] - Quote
MRS AWSOME COOL wrote:Ah fair enough. In that case is there an actual explicit statement on what is or is not ok? Because the EULA itself is extremely ambiguous and doesn't cover any of the stuff just mentioned.
Ask CCP Falcon to direct you to it. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5861
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:55:00 -
[632] - Quote
MRS AWSOME COOL wrote:On 'TheMittani' The EULA States:
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
The Mittani.com pays its contributes with in game currency, and then profits in ad revenue from the content thereby generated. This does not appear to be straight forward RMT. However, it is exchanging in game items for out of game services. Essentially isk is being sold in exchange for out of game labor (which then generates real life income).
It does not specify in the EULA that only direct monitory transactions are prohibited. Thus, it seems reasonable to assume that it also covers transactions involving non liquid assets and services as well. Especially considering the following: if someone was wealthy out of game and decided to, say, bankroll an alliance by offering (non- monetary) services or assets to an individual who was wealthy in game in exchange for isk, then CCP would likely appeal to this clause when taking sanctions against the involved players. However, unless the clause is read in such away that it extends to non-monetary out of game goods and services it is not clear that they would be able to. If this reading of the EULA is correct then it appears that themittani.com violates it.
Thus it appears that another popular eve website may have been violating the eve EULA for years as well (also in order to generate real life revenue).
Edit: There is no mention in the EULA of exceptions for services which relate in some way to eve. Thus as the EULA stands the mittani seems to be in violation of it. Perhaps CCP should be clearer about what sorts of goods and services can and cannot be exchanged for in game items.
A thirty two page thread with fifteen of those being pure goon spurge.
Yup. They're in a panic. They're doing their best to control the narrative, but they just don't have the smarts for it.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
MRS AWSOME COOL
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:55:00 -
[633] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:The evidence is concrete that Goons are participating in RMT between the video http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55sand the image http://i.imgur.com/sCn0H1u.jpg how much more evidence is needed to get the ball rolling into an investigation to get bans handed out appropriately and swiftly? Goon lovers go ahead rebut the claims its in black and white and clearly stated and even on video! To break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT. The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month, what does Astronomy have to do with Eve? Nothing now Goon lovers take off the Arabian sun goggles open your eyes the evidence doesn't lie. I'm no goon lover, but that picture appears to be pretty old (since reddit no longer links Mittani articles), and the SA thing doesn't appear to be RMT either since the money is not going to people who make the decisions in game. Its like starting a corp for people at your university - that should be ok, even though you have to pay a tuition fee to be a member fo the university. |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 16:57:00 -
[634] - Quote
MRS AWSOME COOL wrote:crimsonshank wrote:The evidence is concrete that Goons are participating in RMT between the video http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55sand the image http://i.imgur.com/sCn0H1u.jpg how much more evidence is needed to get the ball rolling into an investigation to get bans handed out appropriately and swiftly? Goon lovers go ahead rebut the claims its in black and white and clearly stated and even on video! To break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT. The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month, what does Astronomy have to do with Eve? Nothing now Goon lovers take off the Arabian sun goggles open your eyes the evidence doesn't lie. I'm no goon lover, but that picture appears to be pretty old (since reddit no longer links Mittani articles), and the SA thing doesn't appear to be RMT either since the money is not going to people who make the decisions in game. Its like starting a corp for people at your university - that should be ok, even though you have to pay a tuition fee to be a member fo the university.
If you watch the video CCP - Soundwave clearly states unmumbled "You HAVE to be a member of SomethingAwful" how is that not understood? |
MRS AWSOME COOL
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:04:00 -
[635] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:MRS AWSOME COOL wrote:crimsonshank wrote:The evidence is concrete that Goons are participating in RMT between the video http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55sand the image http://i.imgur.com/sCn0H1u.jpg how much more evidence is needed to get the ball rolling into an investigation to get bans handed out appropriately and swiftly? Goon lovers go ahead rebut the claims its in black and white and clearly stated and even on video! To break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT. The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month, what does Astronomy have to do with Eve? Nothing now Goon lovers take off the Arabian sun goggles open your eyes the evidence doesn't lie. I'm no goon lover, but that picture appears to be pretty old (since reddit no longer links Mittani articles), and the SA thing doesn't appear to be RMT either since the money is not going to people who make the decisions in game. Its like starting a corp for people at your university - that should be ok, even though you have to pay a tuition fee to be a member fo the university. If you watch the video CCP - Soundwave clearly states unmumbled "You HAVE to be a member of SomethingAwful" how is that not understood? I don't see your point. What if I was at he university of x and wanted to hang out in game wit other people from my university. So I start a corp with the explicit requirement that you have to be at the university of x to get in. Now, you have to pay tuition fees to be a member of the university of x. However, none of those fees go to me, so it doesn't look like in game items (or whatever) are being exchanged for out of game products or services. This seems directly analogous to Goons and SA. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
655
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:05:00 -
[636] - Quote
John Ending wrote:crimsonshank wrote:The evidence is concrete that Goons are participating in RMT between the video http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55sand the image http://i.imgur.com/sCn0H1u.jpg how much more evidence is needed to get the ball rolling into an investigation to get bans handed out appropriately and swiftly? Goon lovers go ahead rebut the claims its in black and white and clearly stated and even on video! To break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT. The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month, what does Astronomy have to do with Eve? Nothing now Goon lovers take off the Arabian sun goggles open your eyes the evidence doesn't lie. security@ccpgames GO
I was hoping that you or someone else would have pointed out that the SA forums is just for EvE Online players and that people that use the SA forums play other games other than EvE online. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
221
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:07:00 -
[637] - Quote
As it was explained to you. Paying for an SA account doesn't immediately qualify you for membership in GoonSwarm. Nor does any of that money go anywhere near to support or fund GoonSwarm's in-game activites. Until you can actually prove the $10/account (and other fees) actually do so, you're making one heck of a conjecture.
crimsonshankand the image http://i.imgur.com/sCn0H1u.jpg how much more evidence is needed to get the ball rolling into an investigation to get bans handed out appropriately and swiftly?
Goon lovers go ahead rebut the claims its in black and white and clearly stated and even on video![/quote wrote:I'm happy you're openly admitting you want to see people banned for non-violations of the EULA/TOS and for actions that don't violate any of the rules based off faulty, incompletely, and poorly supported assumptions made by you. As stated, that image isn't representative of TMC's policy post SomgerGate 1.0 when they, along with other sites, were given clear guidelines to operate by. That however, seems to not matter to you which is telling. crimsonshankTo break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT. So, you're now just going for brazen insults and ad hominem which is against EULA/TOS. Perhaps you should be banned from the forums permanently as this is one of numerous examples. I mean, fair is fair right? You also don't need to have an SA account to join Goons. Here's some examples: Enlightened Industries - Formerly of TEST, now part of GoonSwarm Federation. Bat Country - Formerly of Vanguard, now part of GoonSwarm Federation. Black Omega Security - Formerly of Pandemic Legion, now part of GoonSwarm Federation. Graduate Investments - Formerly of RAZOR, now part of GoonSwarm Federation. That's four different corps that make up GoonSwarm that were admitted into their group without requiring an SA account as you claim. There are members in GoonWaffe who are in there without having an SA account nor requiring to have one to be a member. Please stop making things up and claiming them as fact, you end up looking silly when you do. [quote=crimsonshank wrote: The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month, what does Astronomy have to do with Eve? Nothing now Goon lovers take off the Arabian sun goggles open your eyes the evidence doesn't lie.
No. The text shows you can get compensated for writing an Astronomy related article but the specific payment isn't outlined. You're making assumptions and conclusions based off limited evidence and simply are filling in the holes to serve your own need. Still though, if you are so upset and so sure it's a giant RMT scheme then contact [email protected]
Also the ad hominem doesn't really do you any favors and just shows you're too immature to have a conversation with but hey, I guess that was your goal. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2917
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:09:00 -
[638] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:John Ending wrote:crimsonshank wrote:The evidence is concrete that Goons are participating in RMT between the video http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55sand the image http://i.imgur.com/sCn0H1u.jpg how much more evidence is needed to get the ball rolling into an investigation to get bans handed out appropriately and swiftly? Goon lovers go ahead rebut the claims its in black and white and clearly stated and even on video! To break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT. The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month, what does Astronomy have to do with Eve? Nothing now Goon lovers take off the Arabian sun goggles open your eyes the evidence doesn't lie. security@ccpgames GO I was hoping that you or someone else would have pointed out that the SA forums isn't just for EvE Online players and that people that use the SA forums play other games other than EvE online.
That's already been done, in this thread, by me and others. They're choosing to ignore that or handwaving it away. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24006
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:10:00 -
[639] - Quote
Paranoid Lunatic wrote: Ok so if CCP gave the green light to TMC to pay people in isk for services rendered (articles) and TMC receives real life money for people going to his site by way of add or what have you then according to the EULA that is RMT and CCP SAYS THAT IS OK. No, that is not RMT. That is monetising your out-of-game content with out-of-game advertising. This is entirely allowed. It is not RMT for the simple reason that there is no connection between the out-of-game transaction and the in-game transaction. It is also not RMT because it is EVE-related.
GǪand the RMT isGǪ?
Quote:To break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT. No. Paying $10 to lowtax to be allowed to make a mess on his forums is not RMT because there is no in-game component of that forum membership. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:14:00 -
[640] - Quote
Yeah the more and more I think about I think paying ISK for a service that can in turn generate RL revenue should be a no-no. If you want to pay ISK for a service and it gives ZERO financial incentive, cool. The moment it can in ANY way be monetized is where things start getting crazy.
That sucks obviously because it is very common practice to have advertising and sponsorship deals on the web and in applications, but if that's the case then pay your writers real cash, or hope they like to work for nothing. |
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
221
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:14:00 -
[641] - Quote
Paranoid Lunatic wrote: Ok so if CCP gave the green light to TMC to pay people in isk for services rendered (articles) and TMC receives real life money for people going to his site by way of add or what have you then according to the EULA that is RMT and CCP SAYS THAT IS OK. If CCP allows any form of RMT then we will always have problems. There needs to be a rule set in stone about RMT with no exceptions. That way there will be no discretion as to what is RMT and that will cut down on all the accusations, which will in turn give CCP more time to deal with more pressing matters.
I suggest you read what CCP say about allowing to run ads on a site you own, and paying your contributors ISK for their EVE related content the site hosts. This line of thinking is highly flawed. Anyone creating YouTube videos with monetization is, in your flawed assumption of the policies CCP outline, would constitute RMT. Never mind that CCP have said you can monetize your EVE videos and provided their outline as to such.
Still though, if you and others are so dead set that TMC, EN24 etc. are all RMTng and breaking CCP's rules then contact CCP and explain how, why, and provide supporting evidence. Calling something RMTng doesn't make it automatically RMTng though. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:15:00 -
[642] - Quote
No. The text shows you can get compensated for writing an Astronomy related article but the specific payment isn't outlined. You're making assumptions and conclusions based off limited evidence and simply are filling in the holes to serve your own need. Still though, if you are so upset and so sure it's a giant RMT scheme then contact [email protected]
So the only compensation ever stated from TMC is ISK but your not willing to acknowledge that?
So heres how it looks If I wrote an article about the big dipper according to that image and I got the most views out of everyone who writes for TMC I get Compensated an extra 1bil isk how is the compensation not outlined? |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:20:00 -
[643] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Paranoid Lunatic wrote: Ok so if CCP gave the green light to TMC to pay people in isk for services rendered (articles) and TMC receives real life money for people going to his site by way of add or what have you then according to the EULA that is RMT and CCP SAYS THAT IS OK. If CCP allows any form of RMT then we will always have problems. There needs to be a rule set in stone about RMT with no exceptions. That way there will be no discretion as to what is RMT and that will cut down on all the accusations, which will in turn give CCP more time to deal with more pressing matters. I suggest you read what CCP say about allowing to run ads on a site you own, and paying your contributors ISK for their EVE related content the site hosts. This line of thinking is highly flawed. Anyone creating YouTube videos with monetization is, in your flawed assumption of the policies CCP outline, would constitute RMT. Never mind that CCP have said you can monetize your EVE videos and provided their outline as to such. Still though, if you and others are so dead set that TMC, EN24 etc. are all RMTng and breaking CCP's rules then contact CCP and explain how, why, and provide supporting evidence. Calling something RMTng doesn't make it automatically RMTng though.
I think the key difference in videos you generate or get for no in-game items and then monetize is different. There is nothing stopping streamers, or capture crowd from generating those videos then monetizing them on a platform. However if they paid ISK to make content happen so that they could record then monetize, that would be different. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24007
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:23:00 -
[644] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:So the only compensation ever stated from TMC is ISK but your not willing to acknowledge that? GǪand that is compensation forGǪ?
Quote:If I wrote an article about the big dipper according to that image and I got the most views out of everyone who writes for TMC I get Compensated an extra 1bil isk how is the compensation not outlined? GǪexcept that the message doesn't say that. You are filling in a lot of details and assuming a context that simply isn't there. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Fredlah
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:26:00 -
[645] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:
So the only compensation ever stated from TMC is ISK but your not willing to acknowledge that?
So heres how it looks If I wrote an article about the big dipper according to that image and I got the most views out of everyone who writes for TMC I get Compensated an extra 1bil isk how is the compensation not outlined?
A. You wouldn't get any isk because it's not EVE related
B. You continue to refer to that image which is based on completely old policies and is now out-dated.
How many different people need to point that fact out to you before you stop beating a dead horse? |
KayleInara
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:28:00 -
[646] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote: That sucks obviously because it is very common practice to have advertising and sponsorship deals on the web and in applications, but if that's the case then pay your writers real cash, or hope they like to work for nothing.
They are working for nothing. Isk has no value (try paying your utility bills with it). |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
221
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:29:00 -
[647] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:So the only compensation ever stated from TMC is ISK but your not willing to acknowledge that?
So heres how it looks If I wrote an article about the big dipper according to that image and I got the most views out of everyone who writes for TMC I get Compensated an extra 1bil isk how is the compensation not outlined?
No, but again you're making a really good job of jumping to conclusions. TMC pays their staff that write about EVE IP in ISK. Anything written outside of EVE IP is covered in a different way. For example, and this isn't explicitly what TMC do but you'll just assume it is and make claims based off of it anyway, the development of the front end site design, coding etc. can be compensated for with real money raised through the site's ads. So can things like non-EVE related video editing for coverage of a non-EVE game etc. Whether or not TMC opts to disclose that information to public is their prerogative but that doesn't automatically mean all articles are compensated for with in-game ISK regardless of if the article is pertaining to EVE IP or not.
Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. Whether you actually believe that is entirely up to you, but given that I'm a former contributor and former Senior Videos Editor for the site I'd probably have more understanding of how they operate than you do. Still though, as I've been saying to you and the other people decrying TMC as an RMT scheme, contact CCP's Security and Community Management teams raising those concerns and see what they say. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
221
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:34:00 -
[648] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:I think the key difference in videos you generate or get for no in-game items and then monetize is different. There is nothing stopping streamers, or capture crowd from generating those videos then monetizing them on a platform. However if they paid ISK to make content happen so that they could record then monetize, that would be different.
Actually there is. If you don't have the permissions from CCP, which they hadn't given for many years until recently, you weren't permitted to monetize videos on YouTube that used EVE IP (i.e. in-game assets which would basically be anything you fraps'd etc.). CCP, prior to them granting the permission to monetize, could send a Copyright Strike against the YouTube user and the video would be pulled per YouTube's policy.
That, for many years, prevented people like Scott Manley from making any money off his EVE videos. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:43:00 -
[649] - Quote
So am I understanding this correctly? Some whiner here who's sad over blink being nuked for multiple rule breaches, including blatantly selling isk, is trying to claim that any eve fan site that earns money should be shut down? I think the answer will be no, whatever insane reasoning you try to come up with.
Or is this just another "I R DON'T LIKE GOONS" thing? The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
221
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 17:46:00 -
[650] - Quote
Probably the latter thinly veiled as the former. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20297
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:01:00 -
[651] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Caviar Liberta wrote:I was hoping that you or someone else would have pointed out that the SA forums isn't just for EvE Online players and that people that use the SA forums play other games other than EvE online. That's already been done, in this thread, by me and others. They're choosing to ignore that or handwaving it away. Nothing quite like wilful ignorance is there?
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1227
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:02:00 -
[652] - Quote
KayleInara wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:That sucks obviously because it is very common practice to have advertising and sponsorship deals on the web and in applications, but if that's the case then pay your writers real cash, or hope they like to work for nothing. They are working for nothing. Isk has no value (try paying your utility bills with it).
Isk has no value?, isk sellers would disagree... it's like saying drugs has no value, because you can't trade them illegally. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Quinn Hatfield
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:07:00 -
[653] - Quote
dexington wrote:Isk has no value?, isk sellers would disagree... it's like saying drugs has no value, because you can't trade them illegally. Your post makes no sense, unless of course you're special, and can trade normally illicit drugs legally.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20297
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:13:00 -
[654] - Quote
Quinn Hatfield wrote:dexington wrote:Isk has no value?, isk sellers would disagree... it's like saying drugs has no value, because you can't trade them illegally. Your post makes no sense, unless of course you're special, and can trade normally illicit drugs legally. lol, nicely caught
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
763
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:13:00 -
[655] - Quote
MRS AWSOME COOL wrote: I'm no goon lover, but that picture appears to be pretty old (since reddit no longer links Mittani articles), and the SA thing doesn't appear to be RMT either since the money is not going to people who make the decisions in game. Its like starting a corp for people at your university - that should be ok, even though you have to pay a tuition fee to be a member fo the university.
That's actually a really good comparison. SA membership does not give any in-game assets. One need not play Eve to be a goon.
GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥ -Grath Telkin, 2014.
Free PASTA! |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
223
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:17:00 -
[656] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:MRS AWSOME COOL wrote: I'm no goon lover, but that picture appears to be pretty old (since reddit no longer links Mittani articles), and the SA thing doesn't appear to be RMT either since the money is not going to people who make the decisions in game. Its like starting a corp for people at your university - that should be ok, even though you have to pay a tuition fee to be a member fo the university.
That's actually a really good comparison. SA membership does not give any in-game assets. One need not play Eve to be a goon.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Cherry Yeyo
69
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:18:00 -
[657] - Quote
How did this thread go from Somer Blink to grr goons?!
WHY FALCON WHY CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Fallon Talwyn
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:20:00 -
[658] - Quote
Anyone else surprised that the goons are now calling to start a CFC Blink? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20299
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:21:00 -
[659] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:How did this thread go from Somer Blink to grr goons?! WHY FALCON WHY Every thread turns into a Grr Goons thread eventually, in my eyes it means that they're doing something right
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
763
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:22:00 -
[660] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
Cool. What do I win? If you say it requires a 500M isk security deposit...
Also, I would like to point out that if TMC were to pay it's contributors in cash, would the site not be liable for taxes on said payments? Using fake currency (ISK) would be an interesting way of circumventing those tax laws.
GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥ -Grath Telkin, 2014.
Free PASTA! |
|
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2920
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:22:00 -
[661] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Caviar Liberta wrote:I was hoping that you or someone else would have pointed out that the SA forums isn't just for EvE Online players and that people that use the SA forums play other games other than EvE online. That's already been done, in this thread, by me and others. They're choosing to ignore that or handwaving it away. Nothing quite like wilful ignorance is there?
My father used to call it premeditated stupidity. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24010
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:22:00 -
[662] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:How did this thread go from Somer Blink to grr goons?! WHY FALCON WHY All threads eventually have to go down that path.
De'Veldrin wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Nothing quite like wilful ignorance is there? My father used to call it premeditated stupidity. I like it. Putting that one on the list. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2920
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:26:00 -
[663] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Cool. What do I win? If you say it requires a 500M isk security deposit... Also, I would like to point out that if TMC were to pay it's contributors in cash, would the site not be liable for taxes on said payments? Using fake currency (ISK) would be an interesting way of circumventing those tax laws.
It depends (a lot) on where TMC is based (fwiw, I think it's Wisconsin), and the governing laws of those jurisdictions, as well whether TMC considers them employees or self-employed contributors. If it's the former, they would be required to withold in accordance with state and federal laws. My guess, however, is that it is the latter, in which case the person receiving the payment (as a self employed entity) is responsible for making sure the tax man gets his cut.
The same kind of model is used by other game related entities - for example, Dragon Magazine which solicits articles from nearly anyone who can string some sentences together. They pay you - you're responsible for your own tax, which works out better for them since they get articles from all over the world. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
224
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:30:00 -
[664] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Cool. What do I win? If you say it requires a 500M isk security deposit... Also, I would like to point out that if TMC were to pay it's contributors in cash, would the site not be liable for taxes on said payments? Using fake currency (ISK) would be an interesting way of circumventing those tax laws.
Yes they are. It'd require a 1099-MISC form on the US Tax Return due to the staffer being considered a "Freelance Writer" and so forth. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
120
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:47:00 -
[665] - Quote
I used to have a sub to Dragon Magazine |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2920
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:50:00 -
[666] - Quote
John Ending wrote:I used to have a sub to Dragon Magazine Back before TSR got run into the ground and sold to WotC., I did too. And one for Dungeon Adventures. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
778
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:55:00 -
[667] - Quote
I love it.
CCP caused all these problems for SOMER Blink by giving them free stuff.
If free billion ISK Ishukone Scorpions had never been handed out then everyone would still be in the dark about SOMER's dealings with Markee Dragon.
Now SOMER is grasping at straws trying to make RL money out of ISK.
Get a job ya lazy hoe.
Not today spaghetti. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1401
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:56:00 -
[668] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:John Ending wrote:I used to have a sub to Dragon Magazine Back before TSR got run into the ground and sold to WotC., I did too. And one for Dungeon Adventures.
Nah, Phil and Dixie all the way. I had waaaay too many old issues in my basement
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15745
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 18:56:00 -
[669] - Quote
dude. now the servers are crashing because people are playing. good job CCP President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 19:33:00 -
[670] - Quote
KayleInara wrote:Mark Munoz wrote: That sucks obviously because it is very common practice to have advertising and sponsorship deals on the web and in applications, but if that's the case then pay your writers real cash, or hope they like to work for nothing.
They are working for nothing. Isk has no value (try paying your utility bills with it).
ISK has no real world value until you trade a real world service for it. That is what RMT is. Trading real world services or money for In game currency. In this case writers are providing real world services for in game currency. Said service is then able to be further monetized by forms of advertising and sponsorships.
If the website creator paid writers ISK but then made no real life currency from it I don't see an issue there.
However my opinion means ****.
My point was just that they shouldn't be paid in ISK period as it causes these gray lines. We will continue as a community to have issues until there is an exact line drawn in the sand.
If that line is drawn as you can pay ISK for services that then can be monetized by a third party then so be it. |
|
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 20:17:00 -
[671] - Quote
Is it me or has the original issue behind all this been lost sight of?
From what I remember this basically all kicked off over a small number of people trying to raffle off high ISK value items using a similar technique to somer's original GTC bonus whereby everyone who bought GTC via a referral link was given a raffle ticket for a random drawing of the item once the seller had realised a high enough real life money amount via the referral bonus. Which CCP decided to put a stop to causing complaints that it wasn't fair if Somer could operate via the same mechanisms.
As an aside there is no escaping that on some levels TMC operates a slightly more convoluted version of the same mechanism though I don't think there is any profit in going after TMC over it - it does no good for anyone or the health of the game and its 3rd party support services.
The real issue being drawing a line in the sand between support services and even potentially casual use of that mechanism and opening the door to unregulated use of it to farm the game for real money gains. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24011
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 20:22:00 -
[672] - Quote
Rroff wrote:As an aside there is no escaping that on some levels TMC operates a slightly more convoluted version of the same mechanism GǪaside from not offering ISK for cash or vice versa, you mean, and keeping a strict separation between in-game and out-of-game transactions that removes any kind of semblance to RMT?
Quote:The real issue being drawing a line in the sand between support services and even potentially casual use of that mechanism and opening the door to unregulated use of it to farm the game for real money gains. What's the issue? The lines are very clearly drawn as it is: you are allowed to offer ISK in exchange for EVE-related community services. You are not allowed to offer ISK in exchange for cash or non-EVE-related services. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 20:39:00 -
[673] - Quote
Fredlah wrote:crimsonshank wrote:
So the only compensation ever stated from TMC is ISK but your not willing to acknowledge that?
So heres how it looks If I wrote an article about the big dipper according to that image and I got the most views out of everyone who writes for TMC I get Compensated an extra 1bil isk how is the compensation not outlined?
A. You wouldn't get any isk because it's not EVE related B. You continue to refer to that image which is based on completely old policies and is now out-dated. How many different people need to point that fact out to you before you stop beating a dead horse?
Until TMC is shut down, Mittens is banned and Goons become Test reborn then I will stop my crusade or until my sub runs out and I quit this game all together. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24012
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 20:40:00 -
[674] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:Until TMC is shut down, Mittens is banned and Goons become Test reborn then I will stop my crusade or until my sub runs out and I quit this game all together. Since you're going to quit, can I have your stuff?
Also, I would question the sense of proclaiming that you're going to engage in a prolonged harassment campaign in a thread on the topic of large-scale EULA infractions. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 20:41:00 -
[675] - Quote
Tippia wrote:crimsonshank wrote:Until TMC is shut down, Mittens is banned and Goons become Test reborn then I will stop my crusade or until my sub runs out and I quit this game all together. Since you're going to quit, can I have your stuff?
No I don't support goon lovers |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 20:42:00 -
[676] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Rroff wrote:As an aside there is no escaping that on some levels TMC operates a slightly more convoluted version of the same mechanism GǪaside from not offering ISK for cash or vice versa, you mean, and keeping a strict separation between in-game and out-of-game transactions, which neatly removes any kind of semblance of RMT and trivially escapes that particular EULA violation? Quote:The real issue being drawing a line in the sand between support services and even potentially casual use of that mechanism and opening the door to unregulated use of it to farm the game for real money gains. What's the issue? The lines are very clearly drawn as it is: you are allowed to offer ISK in exchange for EVE-related community services. You are not allowed to offer ISK in exchange for cash or non-EVE-related services.
Actually break it down and its merely an artificial separation to convolute what is essentially an analogue of the same mechanic if looked at in its most basic form (I don't personally give a **** I'm really could careless even if TMC is breaking any rules in that regard or not - none the least I read TMC as much as any one).
TBH I don't really care about Somer or TMC and what they might have done wrong or right as such just find it depressing that as much as anything it is also the culmination of the vendettas of a small number of people motivated by far less altruistic concerns for the game and far more motived by either losing ISK to Somer, jealousy or even competition. Its never nice to see such low, mean spirited people effectively win. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
225
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 20:47:00 -
[677] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:Until TMC is shut down, Mittens is banned and Goons become Test reborn then I will stop my crusade or until my sub runs out and I quit this game all together.
You flailing about making accusations and claims about how they operate, without any supporting evidence other than assumptions and your own extrapolation based off limited information is pretty funny. You admitting you're doing it with the sole intent to get someone banned for not breaking the rules by running a website and paying the contributors in ISK is also funny. You doing it, while crying about ulterior motives of CCP/CSM is just priceless. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24012
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 20:51:00 -
[678] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:No I don't support goon lovers Ok. So can I have your stuff, since you're going to quit (voluntarily or with GM assistance)?
Rroff wrote:Actually break it down and its merely an artificial separation to convolute what is essentially an analogue of the same mechanic if looked at in its most basic form No. If you break it down, you notice that there is a hard separation between two unlreated transactions and that there is nothing analogous to the Somer case other than that ISK and cash are involved in both cases. By that logic, having lunch is an analogue: you pay cash to the restaurant/shop for food, and later the same day, not being passed out from hunger, you acquire some ISK.
Again, the fundamental difference with ad-supported community sites is this: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Otherwise, living should be considered RMT since everyone playing EVE receives cash and hands out ISK. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:12:00 -
[679] - Quote
Tippia wrote:crimsonshank wrote:No I don't support goon lovers Ok. So can I have your stuff, since you're going to quit (voluntarily or with GM assistance)? Rroff wrote:Actually break it down and its merely an artificial separation to convolute what is essentially an analogue of the same mechanic if looked at in its most basic form No. If you break it down, you notice that there is a hard separation between two unlreated transactions and that there is nothing analogous to the Somer case other than that ISK and cash are involved in both cases. By that logic, having lunch is an analogue: you pay cash to the restaurant/shop for food, and later the same day, not being passed out from hunger, you acquire some ISK. Again, the fundamental difference with ad-supported community sites is this: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Otherwise, living should be considered RMT since everyone playing EVE receives cash and hands out ISK.
That said let me pass something by you.
Say I am sitting on a stock pile of a trillion ISK and I want to "cash out" using the mechanic of a third party website could I not do the following?
Create a website that is run by user generated content. Advertise in game that I will pay users 1 million ISK each time they add EVE related content to my website. They would then have to go to my website sit through ads, create EVE related content and submit it to me. I also advertise this site to the EVE community as a sort of crazy non-sense site with only eve related stuff, drawing, articles, etc. When users come to see the UGC(user generated content) I serve them ads. I am paid by my advertising and sponsorship partners for the traffic generated by me paying ISK for this to start.
Lets recap essentially what has happened. I have traded my in game asset of ISK for content on my website, which in turn generates traffic to my website, which in turn gives me real life money.
Would you consider that an appropriate use case? |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:15:00 -
[680] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:No. The text shows you can get compensated for writing an Astronomy related article but the specific payment isn't outlined. You're making assumptions and conclusions based off limited evidence and simply are filling in the holes to serve your own need. Still though, if you are so upset and so sure it's a giant RMT scheme then contact [email protected]Also the ad hominem doesn't really do you any favors and just shows you're too immature to have a conversation with but hey, I guess that was your goal.
Pump the brakes now you just said payment is in ISK can you make up your mind on the subject |
|
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:17:00 -
[681] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:crimsonshank wrote:Until TMC is shut down, Mittens is banned and Goons become Test reborn then I will stop my crusade or until my sub runs out and I quit this game all together. You flailing about making accusations and claims about how they operate, without any supporting evidence other than assumptions and your own extrapolation based off limited information is pretty funny. You admitting you're doing it with the sole intent to get someone banned for not breaking the rules by running a website and paying the contributors in ISK is also funny. You doing it, while crying about ulterior motives of CCP/CSM is just priceless.
You sir are inconsistent in your statements please tell us is the payment in ISK or undifined |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:20:00 -
[682] - Quote
Tippia wrote:No. If you break it down, you notice that there is a hard separation between two unlreated transactions and that there is nothing analogous to the Somer case other than that ISK and cash are involved in both cases. By that logic, having lunch is an analogue: you pay cash to the restaurant/shop for food, and later the same day, not being passed out from hunger, you acquire some ISK.
Again, the fundamental difference with ad-supported community sites is this: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Otherwise, living should be considered RMT since everyone playing EVE receives cash and hands out ISK.
Maybe I'm seeing this all wrong (been going on 3 hours sleep a night for about a week) but then if I made a site with little more than just a GTC referral link (and maybe some incidental content) and paid people an amount of ISK to spread the link (indirectly) around to get other people to buy GTC through it its perfectly OK for me to make money from ISK in the game via this system? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24014
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:21:00 -
[683] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:Say I am sitting on a stock pile of a trillion ISK and I want to "cash out" using the mechanic of a third party website could I not do the following? Not while complying to the EULA, no. The reason I don't quote your idea is because it doesn't matter GÇö you can't GÇ£cash outGÇ¥.
You are, however, allowed to earn cash for out-of-game services, but the trillion ISK are not relevant to that venture.
crimsonshank wrote:Pump the brakes now you just said payment is in ISK can you make up your mind on the subject Where did he say anything of the kind?
Rroff wrote:Maybe I'm seeing this all wrong (been going on 3 hours sleep a night for about a week) but then if I made a site with little more than just a GTC referral link (and maybe some incidental content) and paid people an amount of ISK to spread the link Then you'd be paying them for a non-EVE-related service, which would be a no-no. I'd also venture to guess that some would like your knees to have a chance encounter with a lead pipe for being a spammer, but that's a slightly different issue. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
307
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:25:00 -
[684] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:Tippia wrote:crimsonshank wrote:No I don't support goon lovers Ok. So can I have your stuff, since you're going to quit (voluntarily or with GM assistance)? Rroff wrote:Actually break it down and its merely an artificial separation to convolute what is essentially an analogue of the same mechanic if looked at in its most basic form No. If you break it down, you notice that there is a hard separation between two unlreated transactions and that there is nothing analogous to the Somer case other than that ISK and cash are involved in both cases. By that logic, having lunch is an analogue: you pay cash to the restaurant/shop for food, and later the same day, not being passed out from hunger, you acquire some ISK. Again, the fundamental difference with ad-supported community sites is this: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Otherwise, living should be considered RMT since everyone playing EVE receives cash and hands out ISK. That said let me pass something by you. Say I am sitting on a stock pile of a trillion ISK and I want to "cash out" using the mechanic of a third party website could I not do the following? Create a website that is run by user generated content. Advertise in game that I will pay users 1 million ISK each time they add EVE related content to my website. They would then have to go to my website sit through ads, create EVE related content and submit it to me. I also advertise this site to the EVE community as a sort of crazy non-sense site with only eve related stuff, drawing, articles, etc. When users come to see the UGC(user generated content) I serve them ads. I am paid by my advertising and sponsorship partners for the traffic generated by me paying ISK for this to start. Lets recap essentially what has happened. I have traded my in game asset of ISK for content on my website, which in turn generates traffic to my website, which in turn gives me real life money. Would you consider that an appropriate use case?
If you'd pay people with isk to click on your ads you're basically committing a fraud but not against CCP but against the company whose ads you're selling assuming those people wouldn't touch your ads with a ten feet pole without you giving them isk first or the ad company might not give a rats ass and is just happy raking in the cash from those clicks you just made for them.
|
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:26:00 -
[685] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Then you'd be paying them for a non-EVE-related service, which would be a no-no.
Probably wasn't clear but I meant adding in some token incidental eve stuff just to fluff out the link maybe get them to jump through a couple of minor "eve related" content loops. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:28:00 -
[686] - Quote
Baneken wrote: If you'd pay people with isk to click on your ads you're basically committing a fraud but not against CCP but against the company whose ads you're selling assuming those people wouldn't touch your ads with a ten feet pole without you giving them isk first or the ad company might not give a rats ass and is just happy raking in the cash from those clicks you just made for them.
On a related note just noticed (atleast for me) noticed on TMC using the PLEX link also activates a click through on the ad beside it, sneaky. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24014
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:28:00 -
[687] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Probably wasn't clear but I meant adding in some token incidental eve stuff just to fluff out the link maybe get them to jump through a couple of minor "eve related" content loops. GǪbut it's still not the EVE-related stuff you're paying them for so it's still a no-no.
Quote:On a related note just noticed (atleast for me) noticed on TMC using the PLEX link also activates a click through on the ad beside it, sneaky. Doesn't look like it, no. You might have gotten lucky with the ad and seen one that is sold through the same network. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:32:00 -
[688] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:Say I am sitting on a stock pile of a trillion ISK and I want to "cash out" using the mechanic of a third party website could I not do the following? Not while complying to the EULA, no. The reason I don't quote your idea is because it doesn't matter GÇö you can't GÇ£cash outGÇ¥. You are, however, allowed to earn cash for out-of-game services, but the trillion ISK are not relevant to that venture.
I am unsure how me using ISK in exchange for web traffic which gets me money isn't relevant. Without that ISK I would have far less traffic, but with the ISK it gives me an advantage and gives my users a reason to visit my site.
My point is, if I made such a site and cut out the I give you ISK side the chances of it growing quickly and me getting significant advertising revenue is small. However by leveraging the ISK I can ramp up the popularity of the site artificially and not by the merits of it being a great site but because I am paying users to use it.
I am not saying that is what other third parties are doing I am saying that my plan is something as far as I can tell is perfectly within the EULA but I hardly think its fair and could in theory be done. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11099
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:33:00 -
[689] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Probably wasn't clear but I meant adding in some token incidental eve stuff just to fluff out the link maybe get them to jump through a couple of minor "eve related" content loops.
That would be abusing the guidelines. They're guidelines, not hard and fast rules, so going against the spirit of those guidelines is enough of a reason for CCP to act against you. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
225
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:34:00 -
[690] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:No. The text shows you can get compensated for writing an Astronomy related article but the specific payment isn't outlined. You're making assumptions and conclusions based off limited evidence and simply are filling in the holes to serve your own need. Still though, if you are so upset and so sure it's a giant RMT scheme then contact [email protected]Also the ad hominem doesn't really do you any favors and just shows you're too immature to have a conversation with but hey, I guess that was your goal. Pump the brakes now you just said payment is in ISK can you make up your mind on the subject
No, you're just willfully being ignorant. On TMC, all EVE-related articles are paid for in ISK, any non-EVE related articles are paid for through non in-game means. Pretty simple to comprehend. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
|
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:34:00 -
[691] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:Tippia wrote:crimsonshank wrote:No I don't support goon lovers Ok. So can I have your stuff, since you're going to quit (voluntarily or with GM assistance)? Rroff wrote:Actually break it down and its merely an artificial separation to convolute what is essentially an analogue of the same mechanic if looked at in its most basic form No. If you break it down, you notice that there is a hard separation between two unlreated transactions and that there is nothing analogous to the Somer case other than that ISK and cash are involved in both cases. By that logic, having lunch is an analogue: you pay cash to the restaurant/shop for food, and later the same day, not being passed out from hunger, you acquire some ISK. Again, the fundamental difference with ad-supported community sites is this: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Otherwise, living should be considered RMT since everyone playing EVE receives cash and hands out ISK. That said let me pass something by you. Say I am sitting on a stock pile of a trillion ISK and I want to "cash out" using the mechanic of a third party website could I not do the following? Create a website that is run by user generated content. Advertise in game that I will pay users 1 million ISK each time they add EVE related content to my website. They would then have to go to my website sit through ads, create EVE related content and submit it to me. I also advertise this site to the EVE community as a sort of crazy non-sense site with only eve related stuff, drawing, articles, etc. When users come to see the UGC(user generated content) I serve them ads. I am paid by my advertising and sponsorship partners for the traffic generated by me paying ISK for this to start. Lets recap essentially what has happened. I have traded my in game asset of ISK for content on my website, which in turn generates traffic to my website, which in turn gives me real life money. Would you consider that an appropriate use case? If you'd pay people with isk to click on your ads you're basically committing a fraud but not against CCP but against the company whose ads you're selling assuming those people wouldn't touch your ads with a ten feet pole without you giving them isk first or the ad company might not give a rats ass and is just happy raking in the cash from those clicks you just made for them.
I am aware of the limitation of not being allowed to pay for clicks. I am not doing that I am paying for content and while they are there they get ads whether they interact with them is their choice. No different than Facebook or any other site that uses advertising. |
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:37:00 -
[692] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Tippia wrote:Then you'd be paying them for a non-EVE-related service, which would be a no-no. Probably wasn't clear but I meant adding in some token incidental eve stuff just to fluff out the link maybe get them to jump through a couple of minor "eve related" content loops.
But why would anyone click your referral link then? If you pay me ISK to spam your website in chat, sure, I'll take your ISK. And then I still won't click on your referral link. And neither will anyone who sees the spam, because they get literally nothing out of doing so. It's a lot easier just to go buy a PLEX from CCP or a time code from a site I actually want to support.
So yeah, sure, you could probably do it and it probably would not count as RMT. Essentially you would be the world's first "ISK for EVE chat spam" service. You'd basically just be paying people ISK to spam chat with a link to your site but not actually providing anyone any reason to go to your website or click on your referral link (because you can't, and the moment you do with in-game ISK/items, yes, it becomes RMT). EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:42:00 -
[693] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doesn't look like it, no. You might have gotten lucky with the ad and seen one that is sold through the same network.
Its doing it for me on 2 different PCs - clicking the PLEX link automatically activates a click through response on the right hand page ad at the same time which is kind of sneaky.
Garai Nolen wrote: But why would anyone click your referral link then? If you pay me ISK to spam your website in chat, sure, I'll take your ISK. And then I still won't click on your referral link. And neither will anyone who sees the spam, because they get literally nothing out of doing so. It's a lot easier just to go buy a PLEX from CCP or a time code from a site I actually want to support.
So yeah, sure, you could probably do it and it probably would not count as RMT. Essentially you would be the world's first "ISK for EVE chat spam" service. You'd basically just be paying people ISK to spam chat with a link to your site but not actually providing anyone any reason to go to your website or click on your referral link (because you can't, and the moment you do with in-game ISK/items, yes, it becomes RMT).
Soon enough people will work out though that they can buy their game time that way and get free ISK without me actually invoking the afore mentioned quid-pro-quo arrangement myself and when your talking real money like that the ISK outlay to make it work can be made to work via various farming mechanisms. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24014
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:43:00 -
[694] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:I am unsure how me using ISK in exchange for web traffic which gets me money isn't relevant. It's not relevant because the ISK isn't what creates the cash earnings. You are not spending ISK to receive cash.
One more time: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement.
Quote:My point is, if I made such a site and cut out the I give you ISK side the chances of it growing quickly and me getting significant advertising revenue is small. GǪand the counter-point is that you're not cashing out. You are earning money from ad revenue. You'd be doing that without the ISK. You could earn the same amount of cash without spending a single ISK in the process.
Quote:I am not saying that is what other third parties are doing I am saying that my plan is something as far as I can tell is perfectly within the EULA but I hardly think its fair and could in theory be done. Not quite. Your plan is explicitly to cash out GÇö to trade your ISK for cash. This isn't allowed. That's why none of the sites are doing that. Instead, they have two completely separate transactions going on at once: one is out-of-game cash for out-of-game services, the other is in-game cash for game-related community services. The two are not coupled or connected. They could stop doing one and the other would keep going because they are not reliant on each other. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:51:00 -
[695] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:I am unsure how me using ISK in exchange for web traffic which gets me money isn't relevant. It's not relevant because the ISK isn't what creates the cash earnings. You are not spending ISK to receive cash. One more time: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Quote:My point is, if I made such a site and cut out the I give you ISK side the chances of it growing quickly and me getting significant advertising revenue is small. GǪand the counter-point is that you're not cashing out. You are earning money from ad revenue. You'd be doing that without the ISK. You could earn the same amount of cash without spending a single ISK in the process. Quote:I am not saying that is what other third parties are doing I am saying that my plan is something as far as I can tell is perfectly within the EULA but I hardly think its fair and could in theory be done. Not quite. Your plan is explicitly to cash out GÇö to trade your ISK for cash. This isn't allowed. That's why none of the sites are doing that. Instead, they have two completely separate transactions going on at once: one is out-of-game cash for out-of-game services, the other is in-game cash for game-related community services. The two are not coupled or connected. They could stop doing one and the other would keep going because they are not reliant on each other.
I perfectly understand that ISK isn't whats causing the cash earning. What's causing the cash earnings is the traffic to the site. Without traffic no cash.
I mentioned "Cash out" to get my point across. Nobody can tell what an intention of a third party site is unless the creator specifically says so. Anyone could say its for the community and their love of it, and on that basis the plan is completely valid.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:52:00 -
[696] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:Lets recap essentially what has happened. I have traded my in game asset of ISK for content on my website, which in turn generates traffic to my website, which in turn gives me real life money. If you can't see the difference between this and RMT, there's probably no point engaging you in a conversation about it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24015
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:58:00 -
[697] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:I perfectly understand that ISK isn't whats causing the cash earning. GǪthus, no RMT, and thus, the ISK isn't actually relevant. The ad network pays for you click-throughs, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any ISK you might have. You are paying ISK to you contributors, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any click-through deal you might have. The only reason you're paying anything is because you can't be arsed to populate your site by yourself.
Quote:I mentioned "Cash out" to get my point across. The problem is that mentioning it only muddies any point you might have. It implies a connection between the ISK and the cash, when in reality, the connection is between the ISK and your lack of personal effort. If you just wanted to earn some cash, you could do that without the ISK. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:07:00 -
[698] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:I perfectly understand that ISK isn't whats causing the cash earning. GǪthus, no RMT, and thus, the ISK isn't actually relevant. The ad network pays for you click-throughs, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any ISK you might have. You are paying ISK to you contributors, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any click-through deal you might have. The only reason you're paying anything is because you can't be arsed to populate your site by yourself. Quote:I mentioned "Cash out" to get my point across. The problem is that mentioning it only muddies any point you might have. It implies a connection between the ISK and the cash, when in reality, the connection is between the ISK and your lack of personal effort. If you just wanted to earn some cash, you could do that without the ISK.
I get what you are saying now.
What I am doing is paying for advertising etc. So instead of using my real life cash to pay google ad words, facebook, etc to generate traffic to my site. I can use the ISK I have in game to get the same effect. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:26:00 -
[699] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:I get what you are saying now.
What I am doing is paying for advertising etc. So instead of using my real life cash to pay google ad words, facebook, etc to generate traffic to my site. I can use the ISK I have in game to get the same effect. So paying ISK for in game players to write an article about their in game goings on automatically generates traffic. Good to know.
Still doesn't really connect those two transactions though, does it? Can you honestly not see the difference between ad revenue and selling isk for cash? I mean really? Or is this just an elaborate trolling? I honestly can't understand how someone that can formulate complete sentences can't see the distinction between the two. I also can't understand why someone would go on an on about it, since it's NEVER going to change. CCP aren't going to ban all third party sites from generating revenue to keep them up. Goodbye eve-radio, killboards, dotlan, etc. They are however going to stop people directly selling isk to players for real cash, as well they should. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:32:00 -
[700] - Quote
Damn double forum post |
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Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:34:00 -
[701] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:I get what you are saying now.
What I am doing is paying for advertising etc. So instead of using my real life cash to pay google ad words, facebook, etc to generate traffic to my site. I can use the ISK I have in game to get the same effect. So paying ISK for in game players to write an article about their in game goings on automatically generates traffic. Good to know. Still doesn't really connect those two transactions though, does it? Can you honestly not see the difference between ad revenue and selling isk for cash? I mean really? Or is this just an elaborate trolling? I honestly can't understand how someone that can formulate complete sentences can't see the distinction between the two. I also can't understand why someone would go on an on about it, since it's NEVER going to change. CCP aren't going to ban all third party sites from generating revenue to keep them up. Goodbye eve-radio, killboards, dotlan, etc. They are however going to stop people directly selling isk to players for real cash, as well they should.
Lucas I am not quite sure what you are on about.
I never called for a ban of sites from generating revenue.
I did however suggest that if content is going to be monetized that said content is not paid for using ISK.
I then gave my hypothetical website of why that would be wise.
I am not quite sure where you got lost. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:41:00 -
[702] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:Lucas I am not quite sure what you are on about.
I never called for a ban of sites from generating revenue.
I did however suggest that if content is going to be monetized that said content is not paid for using ISK.
I then gave my hypothetical website of why that would be wise.
I am not quite sure where you got lost. Lol, you never called for it, but you made it quite clear that you consider someone paying isk and having a website that makes money being RMT, even though the transactions are unconnected. And by all means go and make your hypothetical website. Pay people to write content and slap some ads on the site. Good luck with that one.
At the end of the day you are making unreasonable connections where none exist. The only way for sites that generate revenue to be totally unconnected to the spending of isk would be to never post anything about EVE, since pretty much any content that gets written about costs isk at some point to happen. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Felicia Tennyson
Tennyson Court
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:00:00 -
[703] - Quote
it's hilarious but how sad that people are so eager to demonstrate the "Fifty Shades of Dumb" already...
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Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:01:00 -
[704] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:Lucas I am not quite sure what you are on about.
I never called for a ban of sites from generating revenue.
I did however suggest that if content is going to be monetized that said content is not paid for using ISK.
I then gave my hypothetical website of why that would be wise.
I am not quite sure where you got lost. Lol, you never called for it, but you made it quite clear that you consider someone paying isk and having a website that makes money being RMT, even though the transactions are unconnected. And by all means go and make your hypothetical website. Pay people to write content and slap some ads on the site. Good luck with that one. At the end of the day you are making unreasonable connections where none exist. The only way for sites that generate revenue to be totally unconnected to the spending of isk would be to never post anything about EVE, since pretty much any content that gets written about costs isk at some point to happen.
You are right and then I said that I see the point Tippia and others where making and that I was wrong to connect it to RMT as it isn't.
I think you are also going out our way to make unreasonable connections with regards to the costs of content. Sure it cost somebody something in game for that content but what they spent doing that wasn't anything above and beyond the normal course of the game.
If we are talking about live streamers they didn't pay for content unless they went and actually paid somebody to fight them. If a story was being written about an event it won't matter because that story wasn't the content it is just a retelling of the event, the writer is the entertainment.
I am here just having a conversation and at the same time trying to make it clear that third parties don't have to pay for content with ISK, and I feel that they probably shouldn't be allowed to. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:09:00 -
[705] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:You are right and then I said that I see the point Tippia and others where making and that I was wrong to connect it to RMT as it isn't.
I think you are also going out our way to make unreasonable connections with regards to the costs of content. Sure it cost somebody something in game for that content but what they spent doing that wasn't anything above and beyond the normal course of the game.
If we are talking about live streamers they didn't pay for content unless they went and actually paid somebody to fight them. If a story was being written about an event it won't matter because that story wasn't the content it is just a retelling of the event, the writer is the entertainment.
I am here just having a conversation and at the same time trying to make it clear that third parties don't have to pay for content with ISK, and I feel that they probably shouldn't be allowed to. Third parties do pay with isk. They own whole accounts which they wouldn't pay the isk to buy the plex to keep them running, just to generate content. Mad ani ran alt accounts to have something to stream for example.
What you are doing is going on about something which has absolutely no bearing on anything. It's not something that's going to change, and it's not something that causes any problems, and it's something that CCP have explicitly accepted. You think it can be exploited by people making websites to do so? Prove it. Until you do, your whining on about it is irrelevant.
And with that, I'm done discussing it. It's a pointless and off-topic discussion which is going to get nowhere (that is if this is indeed a discussion rather than an elaborate troll which I wouldn't be surprised about). The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:09:00 -
[706] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:Tippia wrote:crimsonshank wrote:No I don't support goon lovers Ok. So can I have your stuff, since you're going to quit (voluntarily or with GM assistance)? Rroff wrote:Actually break it down and its merely an artificial separation to convolute what is essentially an analogue of the same mechanic if looked at in its most basic form No. If you break it down, you notice that there is a hard separation between two unlreated transactions and that there is nothing analogous to the Somer case other than that ISK and cash are involved in both cases. By that logic, having lunch is an analogue: you pay cash to the restaurant/shop for food, and later the same day, not being passed out from hunger, you acquire some ISK. Again, the fundamental difference with ad-supported community sites is this: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Otherwise, living should be considered RMT since everyone playing EVE receives cash and hands out ISK. That said let me pass something by you. Say I am sitting on a stock pile of a trillion ISK and I want to "cash out" using the mechanic of a third party website could I not do the following? Create a website that is run by user generated content. Advertise in game that I will pay users 1 million ISK each time they add EVE related content to my website. They would then have to go to my website sit through ads, create EVE related content and submit it to me. I also advertise this site to the EVE community as a sort of crazy non-sense site with only eve related stuff, drawing, articles, etc. When users come to see the UGC(user generated content) I serve them ads. I am paid by my advertising and sponsorship partners for the traffic generated by me paying ISK for this to start. Lets recap essentially what has happened. I have traded my in game asset of ISK for content on my website, which in turn generates traffic to my website, which in turn gives me real life money. Would you consider that an appropriate use case?
This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11099
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:19:00 -
[707] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
and it's allowed so stay mad Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
225
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:37:00 -
[708] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote: This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
I'm glad you're still so worked up and throwing ad hominem at people explaining to you how it's permitted per CCP's policies and how paying for EVE articles in ISK, and non-EVE articles in a different manner doesn't make it RMT. Let alone Mark admitting his point asserting that it was RMT is actually incorrect at a later point. It's not really that hard to comprehend, please don't be so quick to insult people because you're being proven wrong time and time again. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1060
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:01:00 -
[709] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
Are there more than 50 shades of dumb?
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
45thtiger 0109
89
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:01:00 -
[710] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:In the handbook of GÇ£How Not to Get Permabanned,GÇ¥ not publishing private communications between you and the VP of global sales is on page one. Classic novice mistake. So Mr. Goon-CSM, just out of curiosity, how would you have reacted if your account got suspended and everything was shut down without any notification? I see it as an act of desperation, since they apparently had an OK from a VP position. I suppose that word means nothing. Btw, if you want to be official about it - do you see any disclaimer in those statements? I know we use them in our company. This is still a fault of CCPs lack of internal communication and you are taking it out on a player. Good job. My trust in CCP has dropped to zero and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this is an outrage.
Agreed with the above quote. |
|
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5920
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:13:00 -
[711] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
Get mad. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2862
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:32:00 -
[712] - Quote
Garai Nolen wrote:Rroff wrote:Tippia wrote:Then you'd be paying them for a non-EVE-related service, which would be a no-no. Probably wasn't clear but I meant adding in some token incidental eve stuff just to fluff out the link maybe get them to jump through a couple of minor "eve related" content loops. But why would anyone click your referral link then? If you pay me ISK to spam your website in chat, sure, I'll take your ISK. And then I still won't click on your referral link. And neither will anyone who sees the spam, because they get literally nothing out of doing so. It's a lot easier just to go buy a PLEX from CCP or a time code from a site I actually want to support. So yeah, sure, you could probably do it and it probably would not count as RMT. Essentially you would be the world's first "ISK for EVE chat spam" service. You'd basically just be paying people ISK to spam chat with a link to your site but not actually providing anyone any reason to go to your website or click on your referral link (because you can't, and the moment you do with in-game ISK/items, yes, it becomes RMT). I'm not quite sure you could consider paying people isk to spam advertisements for your website as not RMT. You would essentially be paying in-game currency for something that is an out-of-game benefit. Besides which, I'm pretty sure there's a clause about spamming ads in-game in the ToS or EULA somewhere. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2862
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:38:00 -
[713] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:I perfectly understand that ISK isn't whats causing the cash earning. GǪthus, no RMT, and thus, the ISK isn't actually relevant. The ad network pays for you click-throughs, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any ISK you might have. You are paying ISK to you contributors, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any click-through deal you might have. The only reason you're paying anything is because you can't be arsed to populate your site by yourself. Quote:I mentioned "Cash out" to get my point across. The problem is that mentioning it only muddies any point you might have. It implies a connection between the ISK and the cash, when in reality, the connection is between the ISK and your lack of personal effort. If you just wanted to earn some cash, you could do that without the ISK. I'm not so sure you're not missing the point yourself here, although I understand you do get it. The isk is being used to generate content on an external site which would be a case of RMT. The only reason it isn't considered to be RMT is because CCP has explicitly stated that it is allowed to pay isk for this kind of content, as well as the other stuff like graphic design and such. |
Dany Targaryen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:46:00 -
[714] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:180,000+ members? At $10 a pop?
Good Christ in heaven! Why wasn't it me that thought up that site? You're forgetting unban/double account payments, platinum upgrades, avatar upgrades, avatar defacements, archive upgrades, ad-free upgradesGǪ
Over the past 10 years I've spent somewhere over $100 on SA, don't regret a cent. I only joined GSF about 2 years ago, so clearly I joined SA just to play Eve. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
523
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:47:00 -
[715] - Quote
Any site that sells PLEX or time codes is involved in RMT of a type that is allowed and governed by CCP. Sites that pay isk or request isk for certain services are also engaged in something that is close to RMT but that also is allowed and governed by CCP. I say it's close to RMT because CCP has stepped in to set rules for how this kind of transaction can be properly done. CCP has the right to allow players to do these kinds of transactions. Why fight about calling them RMT when the point is that this is CCP's product and CCP can govern how RMT and related types of income are handled. None of these third party sites are doing anything wrong. You can have the opinion that it's wrong if you want but why would you bother when your opinion means nothing unless you are in charge of the game? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24017
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:52:00 -
[716] - Quote
Rhes wrote:crimsonshank wrote:This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be. Are there more than 50 shades of dumb? Yes, lots more. There's ultradumb and infradumb, normally only observed by bees and snakes. Then there's x-dumb and high-dumb, which generally requires lab equipment to detect and which can cause genetic alterations and cell damage if you're exposed to enough of it.
Derrick Miles wrote:The isk is being used to generate content on an external site which would be a case of RMT. The only reason it isn't considered to be RMT is because CCP has explicitly stated that it is allowed to pay isk for this kind of content, as well as the other stuff like graphic design and such. Thus: not RMT, no matter how angry it makes Mr. Pink Poker above. After all, no in-game-to-out-of-game transaction takes place. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24017
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:55:00 -
[717] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Any site that sells PLEX or time codes is involved in RMT No. None of them are because none of them are trading in any kind of in-game asset. In fact, if you come across one that does, you could probably make a killing with the PLEXes for Snitches program. They sell you codes in exchange for cash. The cash exists outside the game as do the codes. CCP gives you a 30-day call option (aka PLEX) if you demonstrate the ownership of one of these codes, but the resellers never deal with anything that exists in-game.
Quote:Sites that pay isk or request isk for certain services are also engaged in something that is close to RMT but that also is allowed and governed by CCP. It also does not involve any real money. So there's thatGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:03:00 -
[718] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Slicr wrote:Can you please explain more by what you mean by this comparison? He means that a call option for 30 days of subscription time (which is what a PLEX actually is), paid for using real cash, is a different kettle of fish compared to in-game assets such as ISK and ships. One shows up in the accountants' spread sheets as liabilities, so there's a good reason to get those off the books GÇö if it also happens to moderate a particularly crazy part of the in-game economy, then that's a neat side-effect. Quote:Plex can be bought with in-game isk or out of game real money. If Plex is bought in-game, then it has been paid for down the line with real money at some point. All in game items (rare ships for example) can be bought with isk, Plex, and/or other in-game items or any combination of the 3 methods. Another method of course is free.
So in essence, real money has the ability to purchase anything in the game. No. In essence, real money has the ability to purchase a PLEX, period (well, unless you want to break the EULA and get banned, that is), and you can only do that trade with CCP. If you have a PLEX, you can trade it against other in-game assets, most notably ISK. But you can't skip that crucial step without risking your account GÇö going directly from cash to any other in-game assets (or going from cash to PLEX without going through CCP) is strictly prohibited.
Thanks for your 2 cents but I was asking Falcon his reasoning.
As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is: Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game. Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money.
You have a better chance arguing about minerals not being free then you do with this one - also could argue that your stand on these 2 topics are opposite from each other. I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Cherry Yeyo
69
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:06:00 -
[719] - Quote
I think its safe to sew this one up and lock it. Everyone has had their say and now its just: grr martini dot com CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Timber Lynn
Adult Beverages Deep Space Engineering
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:12:00 -
[720] - Quote
Remove |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24019
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:15:00 -
[721] - Quote
Slicr wrote:As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is: Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game. GǪand they're not RMT for the reasons described. No in-game items are being traded for real money.
Quote:Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money. GÇ£Real moneyGÇ¥ is something vastly different than RMT. Anything associated with your local grocery store is also associated with real money. Anything associated with having a job is associated with real money. And yet, buying some poptarts on your way back from work is not RMT, even though it's associated with real money twice over. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11271
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:18:00 -
[722] - Quote
Slicr wrote:As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is: Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game. Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money. And the essential part of RMT is that it's a transaction involving real money, and an in-game asset (excluding PLEX) or ISK. Selling PLEX through affiliate links and so forth is a transaction of real money with no isk component. Therefore it's not RMT. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20302
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:24:00 -
[723] - Quote
Just for those that are understanding impaired
Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime is allowed Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash is not
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
622
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:27:00 -
[724] - Quote
Is there going to be some response regarding this incident and the praise/rewards/compliments/endorsements that SOMER received from several of the community devs?
I am not looking to reopen old wounds but the community brought the nature and ethics of SOMER as an entity up over a year ago, and in response the community devs defended and praised them. Below are just a few examples:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3656860#post3656860 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3660642#post3660642 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3725799#post3725799 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3722431#post3722431
We were assured that they were basically trustworthy, reliable and on the up and up - yet it took a few of us no more than 15 minutes or so of examining their promotions to realize last year that they were RMT'ing.
I guess what I am saying is this - CCP should be investigating how this entity, which you clearly state has never had a business arrangement with CCP (despite being charged with handing out prizes to the community on CCP's behalf), managed to garner the trust and support of CCP devs. Either there was overt wrong doing (which I do not necessarily believe) or, more likely, this is more a matter of staff education regarding the complicated conflict of interest issues that can ensue when you engage in the sort of support that devs gave SOMER. In short: you guys were played.
So how do you plan to prevent this from happening in the future? I've never even really seen an acknowledgement from anyone at CCP that the sort of support and praise granted to SOMER was inappropriate - yet clearly this incident has proven that it was.
The lesson isn't that SOMER was 'bad'. Instead, the real lesson here is that despite what you think you know - the wrongdoing may always be there - and so outside of specific, legally and ethically vetted business agreements, CCP should not be endorsing a 3rd party, especially when in reality, that third party does not even exist outside of the game structure (they, aside form their RMT, are not a support or fan site - they were just an eve corporation, making isk).
Those posts were over one year ago, and CCP told SOMER to cease, and we would have thought that lessons were learned. But then this happens, and the mails from the VP show the problem persisted and indeed seems to be endemic at CCP. SOMER was NEVER a business entity - they were players of the game, with a history of violating the EULA, yet one of your VP's engaged them as if they are above the game, not a part of it. That is a serious problem.
I for one would like to see 'words' from Hilmar (as well as Lisa) on this - because I think it is is genuinely that concerning to me, as well as others, that the folks that are supposed to be unbiased adjudicators of the game decided to choose winners and losers and that even after being shown the folly of that one year ago, it continued. And once again realize that it was wrong whether or not SOMER turned out to be a bad egg.
I hope that CCP, whether they make further statements about the business ethics being brought into question here or not, takes a hard look at the root cause of this problem and further educates all of their staff on maintaining appropriate boundaries between them and the players in the future.
Thank you for your prompt response in this matter by the way, you deserve praise for that, but there are issues of business ethics and conflict of interest issues that more than likely go well beyond this one incident and I hope those receive the same prompt and proper response. And I'd like to think, that we the player base are worth a statement or two on this issue. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2922
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:37:00 -
[725] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:Fredlah wrote:crimsonshank wrote:
So the only compensation ever stated from TMC is ISK but your not willing to acknowledge that?
So heres how it looks If I wrote an article about the big dipper according to that image and I got the most views out of everyone who writes for TMC I get Compensated an extra 1bil isk how is the compensation not outlined?
A. You wouldn't get any isk because it's not EVE related B. You continue to refer to that image which is based on completely old policies and is now out-dated. How many different people need to point that fact out to you before you stop beating a dead horse? Until TMC is shut down, Mittens is banned and Goons become Test reborn then I will stop my crusade or until my sub runs out and I quit this game all together. So it's a personal thing. Good, then we can safely ignore you. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6044
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:43:00 -
[726] - Quote
Relevant:
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2922
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:43:00 -
[727] - Quote
Felicia Tennyson wrote:it's hilarious but how sad that people are so eager to demonstrate the "Fifty Shades of Dumb" already...
I think we're up to more like 150 Shades by now. Before long, we're going to need a bigger register to store the bit values. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
623
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:43:00 -
[728] - Quote
I swear I feel my brain liquifying after having read all those grr goon posts.
Thankfully there wasn't much of a brain to begin with. |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:44:00 -
[729] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Slicr wrote:As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is: Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game. Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money. And the essential part of RMT is that it's a transaction involving real money, and an in-game asset (excluding PLEX) or ISK. Selling PLEX through affiliate links and so forth is a transaction of real money with no isk component. Therefore it's not RMT.
Can you buy Plex with ISK? I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2922
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:47:00 -
[730] - Quote
OMG, Doc, I am literally laughing so hard I am crying. I bookmarked that. All my space likes for you. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
|
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:48:00 -
[731] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Just for those that are hard of understanding
Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed. Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not.
Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it. Your not allowed to break the law but you can
I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:59:00 -
[732] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Slicr wrote:As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is: Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game. GǪand they're not RMT for the reasons described. No in-game items are being traded for real money. Quote:Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money. GǣReal moneyGǥ is something vastly different than RMT. Anything associated with your local grocery store is also associated with real money. Anything associated with having a job is associated with real money. And yet, buying some poptarts on your way back from work is not RMT, even though it's associated with real money twice over.
What is your definition of RMT
Mine is that:
Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value. Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT
The ability to sell Plex for real money is there - it is just not legal (according to CCP). You can do it and that is what makes PLEX RMT. I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5337
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 01:59:00 -
[733] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Just for those that are hard of understanding
Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed. Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not. Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it. Your not allowed to break the law but you can
Then when you get caught, you shouldn't whine about getting punished. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20303
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:00:00 -
[734] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Just for those that are hard of understanding
Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed. Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not. Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it. Your not allowed to break the law but you can Your point being?
Quote:What is your definition of RMT
Mine is that:
Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value. Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT
The ability to sell Plex for real money is there - it is just not legal (according to CCP). You can do it and that is what makes PLEX RMT. Your definition of RMT is irrelevant. RMT is whatever CCP says it is when the term is used in relation or applied to their product.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:01:00 -
[735] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Slicr wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Just for those that are hard of understanding
Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed. Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not. Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it. Your not allowed to break the law but you can Then when you get caught, you shouldn't whine about getting punished.
I agree 100% I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:05:00 -
[736] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote: I'm not quite sure you could consider paying people isk to spam advertisements for your website as not RMT. You would essentially be paying in-game currency for something that is an out-of-game benefit. Besides which, I'm pretty sure there's a clause about spamming ads in-game in the ToS or EULA somewhere.
Don't get to hung up in the practical specifics, there are a few practical flaws, but nothing that couldn't be worked around, in what I described but the theoretical model itself makes the point I was aiming for.
Anyhow my aim here isn't to bring any entity down, just to voice distaste as to certain elements of what has been going on. (Unrelated to TMC). |
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:09:00 -
[737] - Quote
Who knew that there were so many shades of dumb?
Oh wait Einstein did.
Edit ~ Look what I found on Amazon NPC Forum Alt, because reasons. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24025
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:11:00 -
[738] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Can you buy Plex with ISK? Not from retailers, no.
Quote: Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it. It is when we're talking about PLEX retailers.
Quote: What is your definition of RMT
Mine is that:
Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value. Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT GǪexcept that you're not exchanging real-life cash for an in-game item. Yo're exchanging OOG cash for an OOG item and you're trading an in-game item for in-game cash. The bits inbetween are just you using CCP's account services. So if you want to use that as your defining feature, you have made the term meaningless since everything is RMT (incidentally, this means it fundamentally fails as a definition).
GǪand that's if you definition was even relevant to begin with, which it isn't. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
TheButcherPete
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
480
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:15:00 -
[739] - Quote
CCP, before your economist quit, he said he took some of the confiscated RMT ISK from banned accounts and used it to seed a few more plex into the market.
Now that Somer is kersplatted, along with all of his liquid isk (not talking about the trillions upon trillions in assets), do you think you could turn a positive into an even bigger positive and use the isk to "fix" the plex market?
Reducing the cost = more people / newer people playing = moar overall profit = more people coming in = better paid devs = less bugs = moar people playing = stuff, and so on.
If I were you, I'd explore the pros and cons to this. Maybe the pros outweigh the cons THE KING OF EVE RADIO
If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs? |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2905
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:28:00 -
[740] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Any site that sells PLEX or time codes is involved in RMT of a type that is allowed and governed by CCP. Sites that pay isk or request isk for certain services are also engaged in something that is close to RMT but that also is allowed and governed by CCP. I say it's close to RMT because CCP has stepped in to set rules for how this kind of transaction can be properly done. CCP has the right to allow players to do these kinds of transactions. Why fight about calling them RMT when the point is that this is CCP's product and CCP can govern how RMT and related types of income are handled. None of these third party sites are doing anything wrong. You can have the opinion that it's wrong if you want but why would you bother when your opinion means nothing unless you are in charge of the game? Sites that sell PLEX and time codes are not involved in RMT because they sell digital goods that can only be transfered one way: into the game, and only redeemed there. If there were to be any kind of traffic in the other direction then it would become RMT. I do agree that there are other types of services allowed by CCP that would otherwise be classified as RMT however.
Tippia wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:The isk is being used to generate content on an external site which would be a case of RMT. The only reason it isn't considered to be RMT is because CCP has explicitly stated that it is allowed to pay isk for this kind of content, as well as the other stuff like graphic design and such. Thus: not RMT, no matter how angry it makes Mr. Pink Poker above. After all, no in-game-to-out-of-game transaction takes place. Yes I agree, but what I quoted didn't exactly say that. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11271
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:36:00 -
[741] - Quote
TheButcherPete wrote:CCP, before your economist quit, he said he took some of the confiscated RMT ISK from banned accounts and used it to seed a few more plex into the market.
Now that Somer is kersplatted, along with all of his liquid isk (not talking about the trillions upon trillions in assets), do you think you could turn a positive into an even bigger positive and use the isk to "fix" the plex market? There's nothing broken about it. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:37:00 -
[742] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Slicr wrote:Can you buy Plex with ISK? Not from retailers, no. Quote: Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it. It is when we're talking about PLEX retailers. Quote: What is your definition of RMT
Mine is that:
Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value. Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT GǪexcept that you're not exchanging real-life cash for an in-game item. Yo're exchanging OOG cash for an OOG item and you're trading an in-game item for in-game cash. The bits inbetween are just you using CCP's account services. So if you want to use that as your defining feature, you have made the term meaningless since everything is RMT (incidentally, this means it fundamentally fails as a definition). GǪand that's if you definition was even relevant to begin with, which it isn't.
Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is.
The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it.
Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.
I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11271
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:41:00 -
[743] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you. He's posted it several times. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:42:00 -
[744] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Slicr wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Just for those that are hard of understanding
Cash>Time Code>PLEX>isk/gametime, is allowed. Isk/PLEX/ingame Items>Cash, is not. Not allowed is not the same as not being able to do it. Your not allowed to break the law but you can Your point being? Quote:What is your definition of RMT
Mine is that:
Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value. Thus using PLEX inside EveOnline is RMT
The ability to sell Plex for real money is there - it is just not legal (according to CCP). You can do it and that is what makes PLEX RMT. Your definition of RMT is irrelevant. RMT is whatever CCP says it is when the term is used in relation or applied to their product.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. That is my definition of RMT - others have theirs.
I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2905
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:44:00 -
[745] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is. The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it. Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you. For me RMT is the trade of in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. What is your definition? |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:49:00 -
[746] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Slicr wrote:Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you. He's posted it several times.
Not to me and not when I asked him. He only partial quoted my post (which I find childish since it can put things out of context)
I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:50:00 -
[747] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Slicr wrote:Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is. The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it. Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you. For me RMT is the trade of in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. What is your definition?
Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value.
I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11271
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 02:53:00 -
[748] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts.
RMT is the exchange of real life currency or assets (with the exception of certain services directly related to EVE) for in-game currency or assets. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2906
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:07:00 -
[749] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:... For me RMT is the trade of in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. What is your definition? Exchanging something in the real world with something in a virtual world with both having value. I can certainly see that as a valid definition for RMT. The only thing I'd point out though is that CCP specifically has created certain dynamics and exceptions to what they consider 'illegal' RMT. First, PLEX was created as a way to bridge the gap between the real-world economy and the Eve economy and so, as you say, there is value exchanged into the game world. The key distinction CCP makes, however, is that this exchange is strictly one way. There is only value transferred from real world currency into the game economy and rarely anything from in-game transferred out. The exceptions to this rule are the allowed forms of RMT which CCP has given players permission to partake in, namely things like graphic design, web development, writing, and web hosting.
Basically, in CCP's view, anything traded in-game for real-world things that aren't on their exception list is RMT. |
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:18:00 -
[750] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. .
So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy.
Is this correct? |
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5337
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:21:00 -
[751] - Quote
Slicr wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪexcept that you're not exchanging real-life cash for an in-game item. Yo're exchanging OOG cash for an OOG item and you're trading an in-game item for in-game cash. The bits inbetween are just you using CCP's account services. So if you want to use that as your defining feature, you have made the term meaningless since everything is RMT (incidentally, this means it fundamentally fails as a definition).
GǪand that's if you definition was even relevant to begin with, which it isn't. Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is. The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it. Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you.
I'll try to clarify to help you out.
1. When you buy a PLEX, you give CCP (or their business partners) OOG money in exchange for an OOG item (a PLEX code). 2. CCP's account services allow you to exchange that OOG item for gametime, either in the form of a month subscription or an IG game time token (a PLEX). 3. You may then, should you choose a game time token, sell that IG item for IG ISK, and use that ISK for whatever you want.
Calling that RMT requires that you argue that step 2 is RMT, as that is the only step in which we see both an in game and out of game component. As that step is simply using CCP's account services, that's going to be a hard argument to make.
And the only relevant definition for RMT with regards to EVE is CCP's definition:
EULA wrote:B. Selling Items and Objects You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
TOS wrote: 10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.
11. The advertisement or sale of out of game goods and services not directly related to EVE online is prohibited. The only out of game goods and services which can be advertised or sold are the following: EVE forum signature creation, website and third party voice communication server hosting or EVE Time Codes.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:34:00 -
[752] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Slicr wrote:Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts. RMT is the exchange of real life currency or assets (with the exception of certain services directly related to EVE) for in-game currency or assets.
Never said I was.
Fact - you can buy Plex with real money Fact - you can buy most things in game with Plex via the contract system or trade Fact - you can give your buddy gaming with you real money to get him to give you a plex or any other tradable item in game.
The fact that it is deemed illegal by CCP does not change the FACT that it can be done. I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
227
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:35:00 -
[753] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct?
No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:37:00 -
[754] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That's not said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture.
Please clarify for the record! |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
227
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:41:00 -
[755] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That's not said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. Please clarify for the record!
Sure.
N-O, T-M-C D-I-D-N-'-T D-O T-H-A-T. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11273
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:49:00 -
[756] - Quote
Nobody ever mentioned anything about them having done that. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
HarlyQ
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:50:00 -
[757] - Quote
I'm enjoying the crazies that are out here. This is the best thing to go to bed to. It's not everyday you go to sleep being accused of RMT even if vaguely. Please keep posting so I have something to read while waiting for my job interview. Thank you for the content. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5864
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 03:58:00 -
[758] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Slicr wrote:Could not notice how you suddenly threw retailers in the equation and avoided telling us what your definition of RMT is. The fact that from what I have read in the past from your postings - if you had a valid definition you would not hesitant to post it. Since you will not post what you think RMT is, there is no point in discussing this with you. For me RMT is the trade of in-game items, services, or currency for out-of-game items, services, or currency. What is your definition?
I'll tell you what RMT is.
It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. It's also, in the context of this particular thread, a classic false flag operation.
It'll be interesting to see where CCP takes this as more unfolds.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5337
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:01:00 -
[759] - Quote
Slicr wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Slicr wrote:Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts. RMT is the exchange of real life currency or assets (with the exception of certain services directly related to EVE) for in-game currency or assets. Never said I was. Fact - you can buy Plex with real money Fact - you can buy most things in game with Plex via the contract system or trade Fact - you can give your buddy gaming with you real money to get him to give you a plex or any other tradable item in game. The fact that it is deemed illegal by CCP does not change the FACT that it can be done.
Number 3 there is RMT.
What's your point? "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
120
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:01:00 -
[760] - Quote
this thread jumped the shark 15 pages ago |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11273
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:08:00 -
[761] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. Apologist. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2913
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:08:00 -
[762] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I'll tell you what RMT is. It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. It's also, in the context of this particular thread, a classic false flag operation. It'll be interesting to see where CCP takes this as more unfolds. Mr Epeen I disagree, I think RMT can have a big impact on any MMO and I, at least, am glad CCP and their security team is on top of enforcement. It may seem inconsequential at first glance, internet pixels and all that, but the complex and vibrant market economy simulation that Eve is home to is one of the unique and awesome things that makes Eve stand out among it's competitors. It would be a true shame to see it wrecked by a bunch of greedy people who are too short-sighted to see that. |
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:08:00 -
[763] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing.
Can you help me understand what is on this page then?
http://themittani.com/news/april-tmc-update-real-space-streamers-and-dota2
Snip from said page: http://imgur.com/FbR3Uyb
This looks like its pay isk for non eve stuff ... what says you? |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:09:00 -
[764] - Quote
John Ending wrote:this thread jumped the shark 15 pages ago
More like after the first post. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2913
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:13:00 -
[765] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing. Can you help me understand what is on this page then? http://themittani.com/news/april-tmc-update-real-space-streamers-and-dota2Snip from said page: http://imgur.com/FbR3UybThis looks like its pay isk for non eve stuff ... what says you? I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go. |
crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:15:00 -
[766] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture.
You have too said it ,might want to stop posting and actually read what you are typing, go back a few pages you said in two posts the payment for their articles on TMC is unidentified, then on the same page TMC paid their writers in ISK. You flip flop more then a fish out of water. At least stick to one side or the other for Christs sake
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:15:00 -
[767] - Quote
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing. Can you help me understand what is on this page then? http://themittani.com/news/april-tmc-update-real-space-streamers-and-dota2Snip from said page: http://imgur.com/FbR3UybThis looks like its pay isk for non eve stuff ... what says you?
Then yes, that was what the payment method was. You'll note past tense verbs given that, if you check the date of the article, it was published half a year before Somer Blink 1.0. As stated as well, numerous times for you so you didn't miss out on it, CCP have told sites like TMC to adjust that method. Failure to do so results in punishment. If you have evidence they currently pay in-game ISK for non-EVE IP related content for the site, you'd best provide that to CCP's Security and Community Management teams. Again, not very difficult to understand. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11105
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:18:00 -
[768] - Quote
That article is dated April 2013
CCP asked TMC to stop paying ISK for articles unrelated to EVE IP due to the fallout after Somergate I. TMC complied. What's the issue? Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5868
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:19:00 -
[769] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:I'll tell you what RMT is. It's one of the least of the things wrong with this game. It's also, in the context of this particular thread, a classic false flag operation. It'll be interesting to see where CCP takes this as more unfolds. Mr Epeen I disagree, I think RMT can have a big impact on any MMO and I, at least, am glad CCP and their security team is on top of enforcement. It may seem inconsequential at first glance, internet pixels and all that, but the complex and vibrant market economy simulation that Eve is home to is one of the unique and awesome things that makes Eve stand out among it's competitors. It would be a true shame to see it wrecked by a bunch of greedy people who are too short-sighted to see that.
Running a promo that gives you a few dollars a day for a week or whatever is not going to break a game in which you have hundreds of characters being sold for cash, trillions of isk being sold for cash, titans being sold for cash, services being sold for cash, and on and on.
Somer contributed such a small amount to the destruction of the game with this latest promo that it's laughable people are getting so wound up about it.
Like I said. False flag.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11105
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:22:00 -
[770] - Quote
you don't seem to know what a false flag is Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
|
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5337
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:24:00 -
[771] - Quote
Andski wrote:you don't seem to know what a false flag is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
Maybe CCP Falcon is Somerset Mahm "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:25:00 -
[772] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go.
Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies.
crimsonshank wrote: You have too said it ,might want to stop posting and actually read what you are typing, go back a few pages you said in two posts the payment for their articles on TMC is unidentified, then on the same page TMC paid their writers in ISK. You flip flop more then a fish out of water. At least stick to one side or the other for Christs sake
Hi, please take the time to read the context of what was said. The comment where you claim I'm "flip flopping" on was the response to you saying:
"The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month"
Which was replied to with
"No. The text shows you can get compensated for writing an Astronomy related article but the specific payment isn't outlined."
Which means, the image shared perviously doesn't say how a non-EVE article is compensated for with non-EVE payment, nor does it say it is compensated for with in-game ISK/EVE goods. TMC, to my knowledge, have not stated publicly how they compensate for non-EVE content, only with how they pay for EVE content on the site to the contributor. You're really trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Oh also it's not flip flopping if it's the same message stated over and over again. So please try to read up on the right terms you want to use before posting. Thanks. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
ExplorerAlTNewb
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.08.22 04:29:00 -
[773] - Quote
Andski wrote:That article is dated April 2013 CCP asked TMC to stop paying ISK for articles unrelated to EVE IP due to the fallout after Somergate I. TMC complied. What's the issue?
Absolutely no issue, just wanted to be cleared up. All is well! |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2913
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:30:00 -
[774] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go. Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies. There is a more recent article also advertising for the same, as well as Hearthstone and Warframe writers in July of this year. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
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Posted - 2014.08.22 04:34:00 -
[775] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go. Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies. There is a more recent article also advertising for the same, as well as Hearthstone and Warframe writers in July of this year.
http://themittani.com/features/july-site-update-quiet-days
Please point to where they say they'll pay for non-EVE content with in-game ISK? CCP's policy doesn't prohibit them from hiring non-EVE writers. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Slicr
17
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:40:00 -
[776] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Slicr wrote:As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is: Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game. GǪand they're not RMT for the reasons described. No in-game items are being traded for real money. Quote:Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money. GǣReal moneyGǥ is something vastly different than RMT. Anything associated with your local grocery store is also associated with real money. Anything associated with having a job is associated with real money. And yet, buying some poptarts on your way back from work is not RMT, even though it's associated with real money twice over.
Your first point - Plex for charity takes care of your no-in-game items statement
Your 2nd point - if you pay with a credit card for the PopTarts then yes it is RMT
I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
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Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp The Bastion
437
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:42:00 -
[777] - Quote
Argus Sorn wrote:Is there going to be some response regarding this incident and the praise/rewards/compliments/endorsements that SOMER received from several of the community devs...
I just wanted to say I thought this post was superb and I think I am going to take the time to think about, formulate a long form response and write it up on CZ. Good job fella. www.crossingzebras.com |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2920
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:52:00 -
[778] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go. Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies. There is a more recent article also advertising for the same, as well as Hearthstone and Warframe writers in July of this year. http://themittani.com/features/july-site-update-quiet-daysPlease point to where they say they'll pay for non-EVE content with in-game ISK? CCP's policy doesn't prohibit them from hiring non-EVE writers, only that they cannot pay for non-EVE related content with in-game ISK. If you can prove they're paying for non-EVE content with ISK then report it to CCP. Simple as that really. You're absolutely correct, my mistake, I didn't see that there was no explicit mention of paying in isk in the latest post.
You have to admit though with the first post saying they're hiring for isk and the second saying they're still hiring, the implication is pretty strong and a misleading conclusion easily reached. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
230
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:56:00 -
[779] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote: You're absolutely correct, my mistake, I didn't see that there was no explicit mention of paying in isk in the latest post.
You have to admit though with the first post saying they're hiring for isk and the second saying they're still hiring, the implication is pretty strong and a misleading conclusion easily reached.
Yes, if you ignore the fact CCP and TMC have changed that policy from 18 months ago six months after the April 2013 post was made. Something that has been stated numerous times. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
623
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 05:03:00 -
[780] - Quote
HarlyQ wrote:I'm enjoying the crazies that are out here. This is the best thing to go to bed to. It's not everyday you go to sleep being accused of RMT even if vaguely. Please keep posting so I have something to read while waiting for my job interview. Thank you for the content.
good luck on the interview |
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Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2929
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 05:18:00 -
[781] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote: You're absolutely correct, my mistake, I didn't see that there was no explicit mention of paying in isk in the latest post.
You have to admit though with the first post saying they're hiring for isk and the second saying they're still hiring, the implication is pretty strong and a misleading conclusion easily reached.
Yes, if you ignore the fact CCP and TMC have changed that policy from 18 months ago six months after the April 2013 post was made. Something that has been stated numerous times. Forgive me for skimming this monster of a thread. Though I did search the site for a clarification and didn't find one. |
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
146
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 06:22:00 -
[782] - Quote
Argus Sorn wrote:Is there going to be some response regarding this incident and the praise/rewards/compliments/endorsements that SOMER received from several of the community devs? I am not looking to reopen old wounds but the community brought the nature and ethics of SOMER as an entity up over a year ago, and in response the community devs defended and praised them. Below are just a few examples: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3656860#post3656860https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3660642#post3660642https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3725799#post3725799https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3722431#post3722431We were assured that they were basically trustworthy, reliable and on the up and up - yet it took a few of us no more than 15 minutes or so of examining their promotions to realize last year that they were RMT'ing. I guess what I am saying is this - CCP should be investigating how this entity, which you clearly state has never had a business arrangement with CCP (despite being charged with handing out prizes to the community on CCP's behalf), managed to garner the trust and support of CCP devs. Either there was overt wrong doing (which I do not necessarily believe) or, more likely, this is more a matter of staff education regarding the complicated conflict of interest issues that can ensue when you engage in the sort of support that devs gave SOMER. In short: you guys were played. So how do you plan to prevent this from happening in the future? I've never even really seen an acknowledgement from anyone at CCP that the sort of support and praise granted to SOMER was inappropriate - yet clearly this incident has proven that it was. The lesson isn't that SOMER was 'bad'. Instead, the real lesson here is that despite what you think you know - the wrongdoing may always be there - and so outside of specific, legally and ethically vetted business agreements, CCP should not be endorsing a 3rd party, especially when in reality, that third party does not even exist outside of the game structure (they, aside form their RMT, are not a support or fan site - they were just an eve corporation, making isk). Those posts were over one year ago, and CCP told SOMER to cease, and we would have thought that lessons were learned. But then this happens, and the mails from the VP show the problem persisted and indeed seems to be endemic at CCP. SOMER was NEVER a business entity - they were players of the game, with a history of violating the EULA, yet one of your VP's engaged them as if they are above the game, not a part of it. That is a serious problem. I for one would like to see 'words' from Hilmar (as well as Lisa) on this - because I think it is is genuinely that concerning to me, as well as others, that the folks that are supposed to be unbiased adjudicators of the game decided to choose winners and losers and that even after being shown the folly of that one year ago, it continued. And once again realize that it was wrong whether or not SOMER turned out to be a bad egg. I hope that CCP, whether they make public further statements about the business ethics being brought into question here or not, takes a hard look at the root cause of this problem and further educates all of their staff on maintaining appropriate boundaries between them and the players in the future. Although I do like to think we deserve and are worthy of, a statement or two on this issue. Lastly, thank you for your prompt and appropriate response in this matter, you certainly deserve praise for that. I do not mean to take away from that in any way, but I do think that there are issues of business ethics and conflict of interest that have been raised that go beyond this one incident. I hope those issues receive the same prompt and proper response. Thank you.
Agree. Argus, thank you for expressing what I couldn't put into words.
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Zero West
West's Disciples
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 06:53:00 -
[783] - Quote
I can respect the swift reaction and decision by the CSM, the involved members of CCP and everyone here concerns as well. However, considering this matter started as a legal issue with CCP and SOMER's influential status in the EVE universe. This should have been handled in a more delicate and confidential manner and solely by CCP's legal department.............. Look, I enjoy this game to the fullest but the reckless way of handling potential legal matters needs to stop. I wanna be playing this game another 10-20 years from now not talking about how great it was before they had to write a settlement check larger than a winning lotto ticket. This thread within itself should have never been started. Someone in legal has to be sleeping behind the wheel. I'm not on here trying to debate, or start drama as we call it now . I just know my rights as a consumer and that their isn't a game better than EVE online and probably never will be. I'm just asking for CCP to be more careful with this that's all. |
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CCP Falcon
8382
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 07:08:00 -
[784] - Quote
Okay,
This has drifted way off topic, and the discussion is being brought to a close.
Our position has been made clear on this, and if there are any further issues or questions, please file a support ticket under the community category.
Closing this thread now.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
411
|
Posted - 2014.08.24 00:58:00 -
[785] - Quote
A rumor mongering post has been removed.
Forum rule 31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.
ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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