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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
288
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently we can view velocity on our overview. Velocity is affected by someoneGÇÖs fit and any webs applied to the target. So why isnGÇÖt signature radius a column option on the overview as well? Signature radius provides as much intel as velocity does on the overview, it would help fleet work by allowing you to see when a fleet mate is target painting something, and it would give people a visual change when they use target painters, just like their webs.
Signature radius provides as much intelligence on someoneGÇÖs fit as does their velocity. From their velocity you can determine if they have armor rigs on, have a prop mod turned on, and when that prop mod is turned on, it allows you to see if they have plates on. This level of detail cannot be achieved against a shield tanked ship just from the overview. Velocity also allows you to see if they are receiving skirmish boosts, which would also be seen from the signature radius.
This would help improve small gang warfare because it allows you to see when your fleet member has applied a target painter to the target, just like how velocity allows you to see when a fleet member has applied a web to the target. From a logistics point of view, it would allow you to see who is being primaried by target painters, much like you can view when someone is being primaried by webs. It would also help FCs direct their target painters when someone is painting the wrong target.
It would also give a visual queue (Not just the in game graphic) for when a target painter is applied to the target. A lot of focus gets placed on webs, partially because you can physically see the ship slow down on your overview, which directly reduces their transversal velocity. By adding signature radius to the overview, it gives the players a visual indication that their module is aiding on the other side of the tracking equation.
Overall the overview gives the player a lot of intelligence on how a fight is developing and gives a lot of intelligence to both sides. However the over view has an intelligence hole for signature radius which should be addressed by adding it as a column option. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Size == signature radius Will need to test to see if it changes when target painted, but it is there as a column.
TMYK
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
288
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:Size == signature radius Will need to test to see if it changes when target painted, but it is there as a column.
TMYK
Size is not the signature radius, it's the size of the model that is used in relation to bumping. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
82
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
This idea makes far too much sense to be implemented, and give way too much away about why some PVE things happen for it not to be a good idea. It also means you can figure out who in your fleet showed up in the wrong clone, etc. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sorry, meant to write size ~= sig res, true they aren't the same, but, in practice, larger size usually denotes larger sig. Wasn't saying it was THE solution, but it is there.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2507
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
So you want to add even more information to the overview? Isn't there already a metric ton to read as it is? |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
289
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:Sorry, meant to write size ~= sig res, true they aren't the same, but, in practice, larger size usually denotes larger sig. Wasn't saying it was THE solution, but it is there.
I just had a friend undock in his cynabal. Size 300+, actual sig radius was 130ish. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
65
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Posted - 2014.08.29 21:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:So you want to add even more information to the overview? Isn't there already a metric ton to read as it is?
You don't need to show all the things you can just choice to show what is useful information to you. I would prefer this over many of the column options we currently have. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
638
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Posted - 2014.08.29 23:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
I guess we should show people's resist profiles on the overview as well then? |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
477
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Posted - 2014.08.30 00:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:So you want to add even more information to the overview? Isn't there already a metric ton to read as it is?
information not really needed to boot either.
We can assume whatever a say drake is shooting they are painting.
A rapier in fleet...if FC the micromanaging type well he is telling the rapier exactly what to paint. Listen/read in comms and well there ya go....you know what the rapier is painting.
If FC not a control freak I know in my rapiers I tell in comes what I am painting it its not obvious (i.e.. some single poor ******* in the bubble we were camping lol). Todd in the APOC has my paint.... what I would say in comms as an example.
if fleet mates somehow get confused by this and shoot Yamashiro in the scorpion instead thats a my fleet mates are tards issue not the game missing a feature. CCP can't fix stupid. It should't in fact try.
My above example: Todd...1 syllable, begins with a T. Yamashiro....4 syllables, begins with a Y, If my fellow fleet peeps are morons who mix this up...we deserve to lose if they shoot the wrong target.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
350
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Posted - 2014.08.30 05:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Size is the approximate physical size of said ship or object, not electronic size. I'm not even sure it changes for T3s when they use differing subs (i.e., most subs change the size of the ship by a lot). I almost feel like the ship icon kind of renders the size column a little redundant.
Rather than simply add sig size to overview which, as others have pointed out is already cluttered with selectable data, I'd suggest that the current size column be changed to indicate at least an estimated signature size, possibly allowing it to adjust to reflect TP/Microwarp/Microjump etc. effects. Of course, that last part can be ignored if having a constantly changing sig size column would strain the overview or add too much server load.
Then again how much could it really add since numerous other columns already constantly change such as range, velocity, and angular? |
Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2014.08.30 07:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Since you people think signature radius is not needed and we have to many options for overview, care to take out transversal speed or speed? Didnt think so, so why cant missile users have signature radius there?
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
82
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Posted - 2014.08.30 08:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Couple things I want to say in support:
- Sig radius is a stat that makes tons of sense to put on the overview as well, as how big the signature is should be pretty obvious if you are close enough to see it.
- Directly effects the damage of missiles, and indirectly of guns
- It is the (%wise) most variable stat on ships after speed.
- It strongly effects what you shoot in several situations in PVP (damp + ECM combos, where they break some locks and then damp your scan res)
- Seriously, it is the size of the signature to your sensors, why isn't it an option to view?
Also, l2p transversal-fans. Angular velocity is the stat that actually matters. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Quesa
D00M. Northern Coalition.
28
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Posted - 2014.08.30 11:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
My fear for this is that it would be an overburden on the servers because this is the type of thing that is not only affected by what the pilot does with his ship but what others do to it as well. So not only is this calculating the sig radius by the ship, active modules, fleet bonuses and pilot skill set but it would also have to consider hostile painters.
The type of information just requires too much overhead to be put on the overview with no foreseeable equal gain.
Things like traversal require few bits of information and are not modified by skills, bonuses, active modules an active EWAR each time it needs to update the overview. |
Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2014.08.30 16:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quesa wrote:My fear for this is that it would be an overburden on the servers because this is the type of thing that is not only affected by what the pilot does with his ship but what others do to it as well. So not only is this calculating the sig radius by the ship, active modules, fleet bonuses and pilot skill set but it would also have to consider hostile painters.
The type of information just requires too much overhead to be put on the overview with no foreseeable equal gain.
Things like traversal require few bits of information and are not modified by skills, bonuses, active modules an active EWAR each time it needs to update the overview.
Signature radius is calculated for each ship already, most likely for each hit/dmg calculation and for targeting. Transversal is more calculations as you need speed thats modified by skill, bonuses, modules (active and passive), EWAR (web anyone?) and direction.
Basicly signature radius is no harder to calculate than whats already there, so the only rteason to not add is is that its not there already... |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1230
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Posted - 2014.08.30 16:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quesa wrote:My fear for this is that it would be an overburden on the servers because this is the type of thing that is not only affected by what the pilot does with his ship but what others do to it as well. So not only is this calculating the sig radius by the ship, active modules, fleet bonuses and pilot skill set but it would also have to consider hostile painters.
The type of information just requires too much overhead to be put on the overview with no foreseeable equal gain.
Things like traversal require few bits of information and are not modified by skills, bonuses, active modules an active EWAR each time it needs to update the overview.
The server already has the info since the sig size determine how long it takes to get a lock... |
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
25
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Posted - 2014.08.30 19:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
+1'd. Makes a lot of sense. You can get a lot of information about an armor-tank's fit from the overview, but you can't do the same from a shield-tank. Not to mention how useful it would be to missile boats, while turret boats already have transversal/angular velocity on overview.
Quesa wrote:My fear for this is that it would be an overburden on the servers because this is the type of thing that is not only affected by what the pilot does with his ship but what others do to it as well. So not only is this calculating the sig radius by the ship, active modules, fleet bonuses and pilot skill set but it would also have to consider hostile painters. Just like ship, active (and passive!) modules, fleet bonuses, pilot skill set, prop mod and hostile stasis webs all affect the speed stat that displays on the overview. |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
293
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Quesa wrote:My fear for this is that it would be an overburden on the servers because this is the type of thing that is not only affected by what the pilot does with his ship but what others do to it as well. So not only is this calculating the sig radius by the ship, active modules, fleet bonuses and pilot skill set but it would also have to consider hostile painters.
The type of information just requires too much overhead to be put on the overview with no foreseeable equal gain.
Things like traversal require few bits of information and are not modified by skills, bonuses, active modules an active EWAR each time it needs to update the overview. The server already has the info since the sig size determine how long it takes to get a lock...
Yup, so the only increase in load would be to push the information the server already has, to the clients. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2561
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Posted - 2014.09.07 23:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
You're forgetting the increase in load on the pilot, reading this stuff on top of everything else they already have to read in the course of a fight, nevermind that between someone's ship type (frigate, battleship, cruiser, etc.) and velocity you should be able to reasonably approximate their sig radius.
Information overload is a thing, data takes time to read and process and there's not as much time as one would like except during TiDi. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
500
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Posted - 2014.09.08 00:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:So you want to add even more information to the overview? Isn't there already a metric ton to read as it is?
It's another optional column. Use it or don't, nobody will care except you, which is as it should be since it's on (or not on) your UI. If it's not there though, we can't make that choice now can we? - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
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Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
17
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Posted - 2014.09.08 05:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
35
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Posted - 2014.09.08 05:21:35 -
[22] - Quote
+1 |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
297
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Posted - 2014.09.13 05:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:You're forgetting the increase in load on the pilot, reading this stuff on top of everything else they already have to read in the course of a fight, nevermind that between someone's ship type (frigate, battleship, cruiser, etc.) and velocity you should be able to reasonably approximate their sig radius.
Information overload is a thing, data takes time to read and process and there's not as much time as one would like except during TiDi.
You are correct, information overload is a thing. That being said, you have the option to filter out any information that is important at the time and what is not. You can do this by not selecting it as a column on your personal overview, or you can do it by not visually checking it as often as you check other things like range and transversal velocity (If you use turrets). Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
342
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Posted - 2014.09.13 05:56:38 -
[24] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:You're forgetting the increase in load on the pilot, reading this stuff on top of everything else they already have to read in the course of a fight, nevermind that between someone's ship type (frigate, battleship, cruiser, etc.) and velocity you should be able to reasonably approximate their sig radius.
Information overload is a thing, data takes time to read and process and there's not as much time as one would like except during TiDi.
You are correct, information overload is a thing. That being said, you have the option to filter out any information that is important at the time and what is not. You can do this by not selecting it as a column on your personal overview, or you can do it by not visually checking it as often as you check other things like range and transversal velocity (If you use turrets).
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
94
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Posted - 2014.09.13 06:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Also information overload is also something that should be a tactic. A little bit of info overload, applied to the right player, turns an easy fight into a fair fight and a fair fight into a whelp. Your own information processing ability should be part of being "elite" rather than just the number of SP you have. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
190
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Posted - 2014.09.13 06:56:05 -
[26] - Quote
Also information overload is also something that should be a tactic. A little bit of info overload, applied to the right player, turns an easy fight into a fair fight and a fair fight into a whelp. Your own information processing ability should be part of being "elite" rather than just the number of SP you have.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
311
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Posted - 2014.09.30 03:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bump Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
342
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Posted - 2014.09.30 03:16:04 -
[28] - Quote
Bump
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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Austrene Kanenald
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2014.09.30 09:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
+1 |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
342
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Posted - 2014.10.30 17:29:16 -
[30] - Quote
Bump
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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