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Seen Blue
Lion Hearts Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.03 13:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Disclaimer: I have googled this, have read all the forums. The reason why I'm making a new thread is to bring it to light. So that it's just another addition to when CCP FINALLY decides to google this, themselves, they wil see they are lacking something with in the game for their next major update/expansion.
I am a miner with in EVE Online.
I can kind of get bored sometimes while mining, very understandable. And decided to see what I'd like to train for in the long run on EVE.
I come across the Rorqual. See it has 6 High Slots, and would take me 92 days to train for it. I also see the price of one is worth like 7+ months of subcriptions. It doesn't matter, I want to train for this. I picture it as the next upgrade beyond an Exhumer. And obviously a fairly lengthy wait at 92 days minus modules and such.
I google it to see if it can fit lasers....and no.
To be short and sweet. It wouldnt hurt mineral prices to have one ship....ONE ship that takes above a month to train for that isn't an Exhumer that could Mine.
Simply Put a ship bigger/better than an Exhumer. That say yields 25-40% more per cycles isn't going to kill the game...or the market.
The reason why I already find this hard is because either they've nerfed or created a barge to be almost as equal to an Exhumer in yield as is. So the Exhumer at the moment isnt even worth training for. Especially a Rorqual or an Orca, where the Rorqual again at 92 days of training simply saves a Hauler Vessel a warp back to the POS to compress....
Un-real.... |
Seen Blue
Lion Hearts Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.03 13:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
With that I do want to say that I really do enjoy EVE Online and will continue to play. But that is going to bug me for the entirety of my stay, if not changed.
That there really isnt a Mining Career beyond a Barge, or if you want to pull at hairs, an Exhumer.
With all things factored in, and in video game terms.
Arranging a Fleet Operation, saves minimal time for the amount of hassle as is. And I refuse to train for a ship that doesnt really save any time (Rorqual) it just allows the pilot to stay in a belt while the others are mining.
And given, the obvious and intended role for a Rorqual, is to mine where it's inefficient to put up a POS. Null Sec has little to offer in ore variation, coming in cosmic anomalies. So there is no reason to go to Null Sec as a Foreman, because there is no diference in the composition of asteroid belts.
Thank You. |
Erika Tsurpalen
SoulFire Gaming
5
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Posted - 2014.09.03 14:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Actually the main purpose of the rorqual is to compress ore, carry mining ships, and have a jump drive to move around quickly. Also it has a goddamn clone bay meaning you can literally take your entire mining fleet with you, capsuleers included.
The rorqual is a CAPITAL ship, its for SUPPORT of other miners, if you want a big ship to help within belts, get an orca, thats what its for.
Orca = In belt support. Rorqual =
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Bronson Hughes
Prophets of Fear
345
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Posted - 2014.09.03 15:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Erika Tsurpalen wrote:Also, Exhumers are always worth it, just lack at the stats, holy hell. Given the pricetag on Exhumers, they are only ever worth it if you can reasonably ensure their protection. It would take an awful lot of mining in a Hulk to make it more cost effective than a Covetor assuming they both get blown up at some point. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
641
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Posted - 2014.09.03 15:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
There is so much wrong with what you said I don't even know where to begin.
Lets start with null having better refining rates than empire and less competition for ice and ore shall we? Then maybe we can move on to capitals not replacing sub caps in their intended roles, not playing eve solo, and how having more than one ship fill the exact same role in the same way is a bad thing. |
Seen Blue
Lion Hearts Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.03 15:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Erika Tsurpalen wrote:Actually the main purpose of the rorqual is to compress ore, carry mining ships, and have a jump drive to move around quickly. Also it has a goddamn clone bay meaning you can literally take your entire mining fleet with you, capsuleers included. The rorqual is a CAPITAL ship, its for SUPPORT of other miners, if you want a big ship to help within belts, get an orca, thats what its for. Orca = In belt support. Rorqual = System wide support, compressing, moving fleets, being big, jump drive. Seen Blue wrote: Simply Put a ship bigger/better than an Exhumer. That say yields 25-40% more per cycles isn't going to kill the game...or the market.
Yes it is, faster mining = cheaper minerals. Cheaper mineral = Cheaper everything else. Also, Exhumers are always worth it, just lack at the stats, holy hell.
I am going to let this thread sit for a day before I come back, But after reading what you just wrote. Thank you, for just restablishing what I said a Rorqual's role was. I have ot shorten what im intending to say on forums for what I'm assuming are people like you. And again, no, someone having to train 92 days for a ship that'll mine 25-40% more then an Exhumer/Barge isn't going to ruin the market. Just, no.
And you make it so glamourous sounding to train for 92 days to get into a mobile POS, that can't even effectively go into null. Firstly because of the inherit danger, and lacking the ability to carry some combat ships. And secondly because the ORE isn't there. Which is osmething CCP might want to fix, but before that give me something to train for as a miner.
Why is there no need to train for the Rorqual? For the above reasons, and it can't be in High Sec. Obsolete....it or the Mining Ship Tree needs fixing.
And Exhumers take a month to train for, the bonuses the ships provide are not worth it. Even if youve got nothing else to do. Your better off training something else for A MONTH. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
646
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Posted - 2014.09.03 15:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:And Exhumers take a month to train for, the bonuses the ships provide are not worth it. Even if youve got nothing else to do. Your better off training something else for A MONTH.
ahh you are funny. I think I will keep you around for when I need cheering up.
Exhumers are totally worth the tiny amount of time it takes to train them, so far I have not even lost a single one and I mine every single day. The extra tank and yield is just golden and they are pretty cheap to boot as well. And no we do not need a capital mining vessel, CCP just needs to fix the rorqual (and they have stated they will) and all will be golden.
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Alexander Eisenhower
Gallente Rebels Inc. Villore Accords
34
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Posted - 2014.09.03 16:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
As an ex-miner (for now) I can now see the forest instead of just the trees. Mining is the easiest way to make a living in eve. With just a week or 2 of skills you can be pulling in 10 mill isk/hr in HS. Its ok because everything in eve cost isk but dont let it ruin your eve experience by getting hooked on the ore teet. There are so many more things todo.
But as far as the Rorqual's proper role, you need to go to null and experience full Rorqual boost in siege mode. Its plus what 40% yield and 60% range? Not to mention all its other benefits.
Besides CCP like multiboxing because its more scripts and more plexes but thats another discussion altogether
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
310
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Posted - 2014.09.03 18:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:The reason why I already find this hard is because either they've nerfed or created a barge to be almost as equal to an Exhumer in yield as is. So the Exhumer at the moment isnt even worth training for. Especially a Rorqual or an Orca, where the Rorqual again at 92 days of training simply saves a Hauler Vessel a warp back to the POS to compress.... Let's imagine that what you suggest is a need is recognised... The diminishing returns system has to apply - you can't have something which is the only clear choice for a task, there must always be alternatives. You would therefore need to limit the ship's effectiveness as a pure mining vessel, let's say 5% better than a Hulk. The rest of the benefits of the ship would come in less direct ways, EHP, tank, a jump drive...etc.
Now lets imagine this ship hits Tranquility... Let's even imagine that, beyond a spike prior to its introduction as people build cap components for it, its introduction has not significant effect on the mineral market... So you train for it for three months... what then?
You've added a couple of months to the miner's career path, maybe increased it by five percent, what now?
A supercapital version? Another couple of months? another few percent?
A titan version? Regardless of how many layers of ships you add, the career path (in terms of "I am training skills directly related to this proffession") is going to end at some point. What are you going to do then?
The capital mining ship idea (in its many, many incarnations) is the equivalent of increasing the level cap by five without adding anything else - It you don't know what to do with a character by level 50 you probably aren't going to know what to do with it by 55.
Work out what you want to do with the character, long term. In five years time what do you want the character to be doing? Find an answer to that question and the "need" for a capital mining ship will disappear. |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.09.03 19:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:Disclaimer: I have googled this, have read all the forums. The reason why I'm making a new thread is to bring it to light. So that it's just another addition to when CCP FINALLY decides to google this, themselves, they wil see they are lacking something with in the game for their next major update/expansion.
I am a miner with in EVE Online.
I can kind of get bored sometimes while mining, very understandable. And decided to see what I'd like to train for in the long run on EVE.
I come across the Rorqual. See it has 6 High Slots, and would take me 92 days to train for it. I also see the price of one is worth like 7+ months of subcriptions. It doesn't matter, I want to train for this. I picture it as the next upgrade beyond an Exhumer. And obviously a fairly lengthy wait at 92 days minus modules and such.
I google it to see if it can fit lasers....and no.
To be short and sweet. It wouldnt hurt mineral prices to have one ship....ONE ship that takes above a month to train for that isn't an Exhumer that could Mine.
Simply Put a ship bigger/better than an Exhumer. That say yields 25-40% more per cycles isn't going to kill the game...or the market.
The reason why I already find this hard is because either they've nerfed or created a barge to be almost as equal to an Exhumer in yield as is. So the Exhumer at the moment isnt even worth training for. Especially a Rorqual or an Orca, where the Rorqual again at 92 days of training simply saves a Hauler Vessel a warp back to the POS to compress....
Un-real....
Let me give you a long term plan to work towards. As a solo miner, your goal is to be able to to fully PLEX four accounts with your mining efforts. Your goal is to be able to maintain a POS on your own in addition to PLEXing your accounts.
- Accounts 1 & 2: dedicated mining accounts. They are in the belt 100% of the time mining. Once they are maxed out in mining skills, one of them works towards a cloaky scout, the other works towards a jump freighter pilot so you can haul your stash back to high sec. - Account 3: Rorqual providing maxed out fleet boosts for your four accounts. This sits nice and safe inside the POS bubble 100% of the time, while boosting the field. - Account 4: Hauler/combat pilot. This account hauls ore from account's 1 and 2 (keeping them from having to stop mining) to the ore hold in your Rorqual, where you then compress it and start to make ISK. This account also has a combat ship sitting in your POS to clear out any rats that might show up and harass accounts 1&2. This account trains combat skills after getting into a mediocre freighter so he can better protect your budding operation.
There you go, a long term plan for a dedicated mining player. Now get to work son. |
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Froggy Storm
Paragon Trust The Bastion
289
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Posted - 2014.09.04 02:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Can the rorq even go into hisec? If nul isn't worth it, why is the op so worried about leaving a capital wreck? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12962
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:
To be short and sweet. It wouldnt hurt mineral prices to have one ship....ONE ship that takes above a month to train for that isn't an Exhumer that could Mine.
Capital miners would crash the mineral market and toss highsec miners back into poverty. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
395
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Posted - 2014.09.04 05:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
I hate your idea. |
Seen Blue
Lion Hearts Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.04 10:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Seen Blue wrote:
To be short and sweet. It wouldnt hurt mineral prices to have one ship....ONE ship that takes above a month to train for that isn't an Exhumer that could Mine.
Capital miners would crash the mineral market and toss highsec miners back into poverty.
See this is the exact response I've seen in most of the posts I've googled on all the forums about this. Some guy who's just exaggerating the thought in his head of what we're really asking for. Not that this guy works for CCP or makes any important decisions, ever, game wise. But it just bugs me the exageration he puts on the idea within his imagination.
What we as miners would like is a vessel to train for after an Exhumer. Just like every other category of ship. No it would not CRASH the the mineral prices. They can tweek the ships yield capacity not to do so. Simple as THAT. |
Bronson Hughes
Prophets of Fear
349
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Posted - 2014.09.04 11:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:baltec1 wrote:Seen Blue wrote:
To be short and sweet. It wouldnt hurt mineral prices to have one ship....ONE ship that takes above a month to train for that isn't an Exhumer that could Mine.
Capital miners would crash the mineral market and toss highsec miners back into poverty. See this is the exact response I've seen in most of the posts I've googled on all the forums about this. Some guy who's just exaggerating the thought in his head of what we're really asking for. Not that this guy works for CCP or makes any important decisions, ever, game wise. But it just bugs me the exageration he puts on the idea within his imagination. What we as miners would like is a vessel to train for after an Exhumer. Just like every other category of ship. No it would not CRASH the the mineral prices. They can tweek the ships yield capacity not to do so. Simple as THAT. Here's the thing. Capital ships, by design, do things on a much grander scale than their subcapital brethren. If they didn't crash the hisec ore/mineral market, they probably wouldn't justify the cost of ownership.
On the other hand, capital ships spending hours at a time in a belt would have such a huge target painted on them that maybe none of them would live long enough to have that big of an impact on the market....
Also, what's lfet for explorers to train for after the CovOps frigates? (Or the SoE ships if you count them as exploration ships) Or dedicated salvagers to train for after the Noctis? Or dedicated gas miners to train for after the Prospect? Not every player profession has a capital-class "end game", and quite frankly not all of them should. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
88
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Posted - 2014.09.04 11:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:I don't even want to hear yeah, we noticed. value depend on scarcity. increase yeld = decrease value. if you cant get this, you just fail at this game. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
310
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:What we as miners would like is a vessel to train for after an Exhumer. Just like every other category of ship.
As I pointed out in post #9, the (still unanswered) question becomes... "What then?"
Let's assume you're currently sitting in your proposed capital mining ship, you've trained the skills, paid your money and...what? Are you suddenly less bored with mining? Have you suddenly developed a new goal? a new reason to log in? Which skills are you training?
(If you can answer these questions then why aren't you putting them into practise now rather than content-locusting? (This news item contains a Hint). |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
424
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
We need a capital neuting ship (with capital neuts) way before we need a capital mining ship.
TBH until someone eats the blue donut capital mining ships would be rediculous. Based on CCPs aversion to kicking IS boxers in the junk, this would probably zero out mineral prices and put the cost of a plex at around 3.27 billion isk within 2 months. 30 capital ore suckers warp to belt. Belt is gone in 3 cycles. Warp to next belt. This is almost as bad as the mass based jump range garbage. Please don't let Fozzy see this bad idea. Has he been fired yet? |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.09.04 13:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:Can the rorq even go into hisec? If nul isn't worth it, why is the op so worried about leaving a capital wreck?
No, it can't. The OP can't even mine mercoxit and is complaining about mining....doesn't make much sense. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
642
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Capital miners would crash the mineral market and toss highsec miners back into poverty. You mean they aren't there already? |
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
642
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:See this is the exact response I've seen in most of the posts I've googled on all the forums about this. Some guy who's just exaggerating the thought in his head of what we're really asking for. Not that this guy works for CCP or makes any important decisions, ever, game wise. But it just bugs me the exageration he puts on the idea within his imagination. What we as miners would like is a vessel to train for after an Exhumer. Just like every other category of ship. No it would not CRASH the the mineral prices. They can tweek the ships yield capacity not to do so. Simple as THAT. And EDIT: If I were to put a personal intergection on to this. Basically just a ship you train for for say 90+ days with a slight bit better yeild with a LARGE cargo hold, so that if I say wanted to take a trip into null to do some Cosmic Anomaly mining or some ICE mining, in a system I found fairly quiet. The jumps back into high sec wouldn't neagte my ISK/hr. And with all the problems youre going to think iof, THE GAME DESIGNERS can think of a solution. I don't even want to hear another Combat Pilot Theorize about how it would OUTRIGHT RUIN THE GAME, like things with in the game cant be managed by SOMEBODY. So you want something to replace the both the hulk and the mackinaw and make them totally redundant? No.
Yield or ore bay space. Pick one. |
Kristoffon vonDrake
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
114
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Posted - 2014.09.04 17:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:when CCP FINALLY decides to google this, themselves, they wil see they are lacking something with in the game for their next major update/expansion.
Pretty sure ccp don't need to google about their game to find it |
xPredat0rz
Grey Templars Fidelas Constans
110
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Posted - 2014.09.05 09:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Seen Blue wrote:baltec1 wrote:Seen Blue wrote:
To be short and sweet. It wouldnt hurt mineral prices to have one ship....ONE ship that takes above a month to train for that isn't an Exhumer that could Mine.
Capital miners would crash the mineral market and toss highsec miners back into poverty. See this is the exact response I've seen in most of the posts I've googled on all the forums about this. Some guy who's just exaggerating the thought in his head of what we're really asking for. Not that this guy works for CCP or makes any important decisions, ever, game wise. But it just bugs me the exageration he puts on the idea within his imagination. What we as miners would like is a vessel to train for after an Exhumer. Just like every other category of ship. No it would not CRASH the the mineral prices. They can tweek the ships yield capacity not to do so. Simple as THAT. And EDIT: If I were to put a personal intergection on to this. Basically just a ship you train for for say 90+ days with a slight bit better yeild with a LARGE cargo hold, so that if I say wanted to take a trip into null to do some Cosmic Anomaly mining or some ICE mining, in a system I found fairly quiet. The jumps back into high sec wouldn't neagte my ISK/hr. And with all the problems youre going to think iof, THE GAME DESIGNERS can think of a solution. I don't even want to hear another Combat Pilot Theorize about how it would OUTRIGHT RUIN THE GAME, like things with in the game cant be managed by SOMEBODY.
As much as I want to see a sieged Mining Barge so I can drop on a fleet of them and kill them.
Let me paint a pretty picture for you. Master Null sec Miner A gets 30 of these and uses ISboxer to completely strip an entire system with max rorqual boosts over the next 2-3 hours. He jumps to the next system over rinses and repeats. Now with his metric **** ton of ore he compresses it all at a pos instantly loads it into a jf or 2 and drops it off at super capital building depot X
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
426
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Posted - 2014.09.05 12:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Don't we need more supercapitals in the game?? Won't that fix the blue donut issue?
On a serious note. If you need something to train after exumer 5 - I recommend a hurricane w/ T2 autocannons. Once you master that go for sleipnir w/ same and add 2 neuts and an ASB. Go and pvp.
I'm not saying mining is bad (I can fly exumers quite well) I'm saying there is a whole lot of other eve out there to play. Go experience it.
I'm not knocking mining, but at the end of the day you're warping to a belt/anom activating a mining lazor on a fake space rock and watching your cargo hold fill up and the rock disappear. I'm surprised that you are surprised you hit the end point of mining. There is only so much you can do to that eve activity. It's not a lot to work with. More more more per unit time doesn't change the warp - activate - wait cycle. 3 months from now when you finish of capital miner to 5..... what's next?
Eve is a sandbox - go play. Expecting great things from it's most basic activity in this game is just going to leave you frustrated.
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