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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1387
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 14:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.
The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.
So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.
What gives? |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8036
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 14:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Paikis wrote:So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.
The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.
So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.
What gives?
-lvl 4s can be run solo, no need to wait for a fleet.
-Incursions get boring after a while. lvl 4s are boring but you can just log off when you want, leaving in the middle of an incursion fleet will gain you the ire of many incursion FCs. At least you get different missions, in incursions it's "we just did a TCRC, warp to the next TCRC".
-lvl4s are more family friendly. With my overtanked rattlesnake I can walk away from the computer at any time to deal with a screaming kid. In an incursion you can not unless you tell the FC you need to go afk for that the logi locks you up and watches your shields till you come back (a major PITA for all involved)
-lvl 4s don't require you to pick up and move every time a rival group gets ticked off and pops the mom early.
I'm still of the opinion that Incursions in high sec are too good for the amount of risk and effort involved (very low risk unless your are super shiny, very low effort for everyone except the few people running the fleet such as the FC, LC, dropper/picker, AAA and such). But they don't trump lvl 4 missions for convenience.
Also your estimates are a bit low, the right ship in lvl 3s can do about as much as you say is average from lvl 4s. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1387
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Level 3s are much faster to run and don't require as much tank, allowing you to fit even more gank making them faster still. The Machariel he was using had a single MAR as it's only tanking module. Also the vast majority of that ISK is in LP, with some lvl3s giving estimated 3mil in LP and less than 500k in total ISK.
The 90mil/h for level4s was based on a thread a while back where someone was running with Tengus and then jump cloning between agents as he declined, as well as using a courier service and market orders while running missions.
Regardless of the actual amount of ISK/h for level 4s, Incursions make more. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
551
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 14:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
You obviously have not run incursions lately. Here, read this: http://thevalhallaproject.info/news.html
My incursion income went from LOTS to Almost Nothing. So yeah, I am back to l4. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
864
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
With Incursions, your ship is at the mercy of a Logi pilot. You might end up in a fleet of pilots you never even heard of before.
With missions, you can log in, solo a few 4's, and log out.
As for isk per hour: Just work at McDonalds for 2 hours and buy PLEX. It's by for the best ISK per hour in the game. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
88
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 16:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
incursion have a fixed max players limit for each site and a limited number of site spawned at any time, l4 are infinite. |
Ginger Barbarella
2008
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 17:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Setting aside the money you SAY is possible (I don't play to grind isk), why would I want to do Incursions over L4's or FW?
Remember, I said I don't play to grind for isk, so the money I make in my non-industry activities is completely, 100% irrelevant.
Thanks. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2880
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 18:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
I finding ISK per hour for incursions, be sure to include the time needed to fly to the incursion site, the time used to wait for a spot on the fleet, and the time needed to fly home when you are done.
Once you do that, you will see the ISK per hour is not quite as good as you think. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1195
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 18:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Because no matter how hard I try, I can never be the biggest ******* in an Incursion fleet. In my own fleet, its easy. Mandatory, in fact.
I'm # 1. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
395
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Posted - 2014.09.04 19:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Better tax rates at the stations they use.
Jump clones.
Locator agents.
The isk is way higher than your estimate. |
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Samwise Everquest
Because ISK
90
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Posted - 2014.09.04 20:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Paikis wrote:So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.
The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.
So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.
What gives?
Id say the average ISK per hour in Incursions is actually 60-100 mil doing VGs. You must take into account people leaving/going, sites being contested, people falling asleep, ect ect. This is from experience so arguing that I am wrong isn't going to work.
The 100 mil an hour doing VGs is optimal as in, good pilots with good skills in shiny ships that do more dps with less tank.
As for why people prefer L4s? A number of things
- General progression from l3s are l4s not Incursions - L4 require less skills and can be handled without faction or expensive t2 mods/ships - casual environment for the semi afker - low risk, lol npcs arent gonna kill anyone with a brain as opposed to sansha - standings - LP payout for certain corps is pretty damn good - some people like to do things solo |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
318
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 21:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Because I can pick it up and put it down instantly - kids/cat/door/work calls Because it's a respectable income supplement when I'm tired or wrapping up of an evening. Because the time I'd spend in an incursion, I'd prefer to be blowing people up on my main. Because why NOT do it whilst you're playing the market on said alt? You can 0.1isk from space and get a little liquid isk injection whilst you're doing it. |
Marc Callan
Nuclear Manhattan Limited
462
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Posted - 2014.09.04 22:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
I do it for a change of pace. Or to improve standings to lower tax rates. A while back, I did it to get personal access to jump clone facilities, which is a worthwhile reward regardless of ISK or LP income. (Jump clone access is one of those things that is dead easy in sov-null - provided you've got the right benefactor - but that you've got to work like crazy for in high.) "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt |
GordonO
The Oasis Group
60
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 22:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Its all about accessibility. Try getting in to a regular incursion fleet if you in the NZ time zone before DT. I think helix now are about the most active and warp to me try. Also a lot of people can't always be on voice coms. I know if I came home from work everyday and jumped on TS I will soon come home to an empty house. So if you took in to account the above, the wait times and the travel time, lvl4's are more consistent\accessible. It also a nice change, having been in wh's and null for most of my eve time a little lvl 4 farming is a nice change. . |
GordonO
The Oasis Group
60
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 22:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:I do it for a change of pace. Or to improve standings to lower tax rates. A while back, I did it to get personal access to jump clone facilities, which is a worthwhile reward regardless of ISK or LP income. (Jump clone access is one of those things that is dead easy in sov-null - provided you've got the right benefactor - but that you've got to work like crazy for in high.)
join EACS.. make clones, re-join corp (if they want you back) easy as . |
stoicfaux
5298
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 00:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Paikis wrote:
The 90mil/h for level4s was based on a thread a while back where someone was running with Tengus and then jump cloning between agents as he declined, as well as using a courier service and market orders while running missions.
That would be my personal hero, Mooseburger. I used his spreadsheets as the basis for mine.
It's around 100+M/h in asset generation. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4217001 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=334784&find=unread
Quote:Regardless of the actual amount of ISK/h for level 4s, Incursions make more. As other overcommitted parents have pointed out, incursions require too much commitment. Heck, I was at the point where blitzing level 3's (~3 minutes per mission) was the only EVE activity that I could make time for. Now I just log in to update my skill queue (and even then, I'm setting long level 5 skills.)
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Keaton DuCasse
KdC Enterprise
29
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Posted - 2014.09.05 05:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Paikis wrote: So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.
I believe there are player whom play EvE without the ISK / hr thing in mind.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
291
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 07:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Paikis wrote:So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.
The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.
So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.
What gives?
* shorter time commitment, you can pick up and run one in ~15 .. 30 minutes usually even solo. * does not involve long travel, wait times, etc. * you can multi-account them reasonably effecively, unlike incursions (other than ISBoxers) * 90 mil/h is single account pimped ship ballpark (depending substantially what LP are you exactly getting), however, if you throw 2+ accounts at it the gap with incursion average is not that large and you can skip most of the pimp. L4 completion times scales pretty reasonably up to ~2000 .. 3000 dps (depending on alpha, RoF, lock speed, travel times and weapon type used).
That out of the way Incursions in reasonably pimp fleet should be still slightly ahead because of the LP. They are just also more effort. There is no point of walking all the way up to the Incursion area if all you have is less than 1h of gametime in that session. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Voxinian
39
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 09:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Once you have enough Isk's and assets as reserves the necessity of making x amount of Isk's an hour is gone (for me anyway). I sometimes do some DED sites for faction loot just for the fun of it and that still brings in enough ISK to buy a plex or a new BS or something... thats enough for me. The rest of the time I just jerk around in space and do whatever I feel like doing. PVE is insanely boring and repetitive so the less I have to do (for ISK's) the better. |
Lugalzagezi666
236
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 13:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
I run l4 missions because it is quite relaxing to do them while watching ****, contrary to incursions, where people actually want you to shoot or repair when you got more important things to do. |
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1145
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 14:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Incursion fleets get all nancy when you quit half way through because somethng in real life interefered - and if you do it too often will blacklist you.
Mission rats wait patiently for your return. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
82
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 19:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Now, to compare some numbers. Mine are atypical, as I am an incursion FC with a reasonable cross community reputation (I think), but show the sort of numbers possible for incursions, using only fleets where I started the formation process.
Time spent forming fleet, outside US prime time: average, of the last 20 attempts, 17 successes averaging 45minutes and 3 failures averaging 2 hours waiting for the last thing we needed
Average length of time in Non-primetime fleet: 4.2 hours
Average isk/hr in such fleets while active: 102M/hr in VG, 104 in AS, no HQ fleet outside US prime
So, if you divide the time spent forming a fleet amongst a reasonable span of time, the effects become less and less. These numbers are intentionally for outside primetime, and for a relatively small community (HELIX Incursions) to try to balance them for accessibility. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1197
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 19:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Now, to compare some numbers. Mine are atypical, as I am an incursion FC with a reasonable cross community reputation (I think), but show the sort of numbers possible for incursions, using only fleets where I started the formation process.
Time spent forming fleet, outside US prime time: average, of the last 20 attempts, 17 successes averaging 45minutes and 3 failures averaging 2 hours waiting for the last thing we needed
Average length of time in Non-primetime fleet: 4.2 hours
Average isk/hr in such fleets while active: 102M/hr in VG, 104 in AS, no HQ fleet outside US prime
So, if you divide the time spent forming a fleet amongst a reasonable span of time, the effects become less and less. These numbers are intentionally for outside primetime, and for a relatively small community (HELIX Incursions) to try to balance them for accessibility.
So about 80 million an hour not including LP or travel time.
4284 minutes run time * 102 mil an hour = 7.28bil 7.28 bil / 90 hours total time invested = 80 mil.
Thank you for your excellent numbers good sir, very informative. You wouldnt happen to have the total LP for those incursions also, would you? Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
Samwise Everquest
Because ISK
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 04:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
1k-1.2k per lp i believe is average conversion rate. there is a channel in game where people buy concord LP. cant think of name but its something like CONCORD LP or w/e. |
Abominare
The Hatchery Team Liquid
19
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 07:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Paikis wrote:So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.
The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.
So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.
What gives?
Because burners, you can nearly just chain doing just burners and make around 150-160m average an hour. |
Sentenced 1989
Quantum Anomaly Corporation
80
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 18:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
As somebody said
L4's can be done solo, I can do anywhere between 60-90 mill per hour doing them with 2 battleships + noctis I can walk away any time to go AFK or go for a smoke I don't need to move around and carry stuff
Incursion on other hand are safer (logie catches you if you DC) However, you can't go AFK at any given moment You make more ISK, but you have to calculate how many time you spend moving between focuses, waiting for fleet to form up or to get off wait list in HQ fleets, etc...
Having said all that already, I like doing Vanguards since I can do it with group of friends and use teamspeak, but if I can't use comms or there is chance I'll have to do family stuff I opt for hour-two of missions.
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GordonO
The Oasis Group
63
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 20:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Abominare wrote:Paikis wrote:So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.
The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.
So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.
What gives? Because burners, you can nearly just chain doing just burners and make around 150-160m average an hour. well not really.. I have done round 30 missions since the patch and had one burner.. not a great sample size.. but in no way implies you going to be able to chain them in anyway.
. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
644
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 20:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
GordonO wrote:Abominare wrote:Paikis wrote:So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.
The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.
So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.
What gives? Because burners, you can nearly just chain doing just burners and make around 150-160m average an hour. well not really.. I have done round 30 missions since the patch and had one burner.. not a great sample size.. but in no way implies you going to be able to chain them in anyway. I have gotten two burner missions in a row a couple of times, but never three in a row. They really can't be farmed. |
Abominare
The Hatchery Team Liquid
19
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 23:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:GordonO wrote:Abominare wrote:Paikis wrote:So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.
The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.
So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.
What gives? Because burners, you can nearly just chain doing just burners and make around 150-160m average an hour. well not really.. I have done round 30 missions since the patch and had one burner.. not a great sample size.. but in no way implies you going to be able to chain them in anyway. I have gotten two burner missions in a row a couple of times, but never three in a row. They really can't be farmed.
??????
No, I am actually doing this 80% of my mission load is now burners only with just the fastest of other missions accepted whenever standings swing too low. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8086
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 03:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Abominare wrote:
??????
No, I am actually doing this 80% of my mission load is now burners only with just the fastest of other missions accepted whenever standings swing too low.
Me too, that 9.00 plus to Sisters of EVE is coming in REAL handy right now lol. I still do Recon, Cargo Delviery, and Dread Pirate Scarlet among a very few others. Oh, and stop the thief.
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