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Dano Sarum
Giants in the Playground
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Posted - 2006.07.31 23:42:00 -
[1]
The two ships mentioned have only 1 midslot, i BELIEVE (allthough i may be wrong) that these are the only ships in the game with ONE midslot.
It's also widely known that due to having only 1 midslot the ships are absolutly worthless PVP, (IIRC AGONY wont take Amarr Destroyers into their Destroyer PvP classes due to its 1 medslot).
I propose simply to give these two ships an extra med slot taking them up to two, This to me seems like an easy fix to make, one thats needed and doesn't harm anyone. While Amarr have a lot of problems and the DEVS don't seem to want to answer any of the long whiney threads out there at the moment, I think this minor change is nessacary and would be a good sign of things to come.
Feedback on this would be good, especially anyone who thinks this is a BAD idea.
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Guillame Herschel
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Posted - 2006.08.01 00:06:00 -
[2]
If some other corp holds a PvP class and decides that no ships with less than three mids are permitted, does that mean that CCP should upgrade all ships to 3 or more mids?
I think not. What Agony requires is Agony's business. Maybe what we need is a gang PvP class where you learn how to take advantage of your buddy's mid slots?
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Stamm
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.01 00:07:00 -
[3]
Well, I'm an Amarr pilot and I can see a little problem with the Retribution getting an extra midslot.
It'd need to get a little bit of a CPU boost, and a little bit of a cap regen nerf. With that it'd be great.
Basically for PvE the ship would then be fitted with a cap recharger - and perform the same. And for PvP it has that extra midslot.
But yeah, please do this. But if any coercer changes are done, please please please look at the fitting on the ship, it's got the same fitting as other destroyers, but Amarr weapons take masses more powergrid.
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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.08.01 00:10:00 -
[4]
take off a highslot then, and nerf the recharge rate a bit but you know what i really hate? when you can't tell people's posts from their sigs
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.01 00:28:00 -
[5]
on the coercer another medslot would be really nice as its a beautiful little pvp ship and that 1 medslot is propably what prevents people from flying it more often. as theres only one destroyer per race amarrians miss out on a lot of fun there.
with its current 4 lows it also doenst really have fitting problems as was suggested. the only guns that will be really hard to fit in any sensible way are med beams and those will produce problems on anything in the frig/destroyer range. so you cant really blame the coercer for them. if it were to lose a low for another midslot there may be a reason to boost the grid a little bit but not in any major way.
with the assault frigs its not so bad as you can always take the vengeance for solo pvp and use the retri for gangs. that being said i wouldnt complain too much about a 2nd med there as well but that would require some more work on the retri as its already pretty powerful the way it currently is.
on another note: the often forgotten tormentor also has only 1 medslot but i dont think anyone really cares in this case.
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goodby2u
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Posted - 2006.08.01 02:18:00 -
[6]
You want a retribution with 3 mid slots?Get a vengeance...
A retribution is a tanker/damage dealer but has a lack in the ew realm....And im fine with that.
Now the coercer i think you are absolutely right in that theres no other amarr destroyer that has a possibility of solo pvping.
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Wat0721
GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.08.01 03:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Wat0721 on 01/08/2006 03:03:39
Originally by: goodby2u You want a retribution with 3 mid slots?Get a vengeance... ...
Originally by: OP I propose simply to give these two ships an extra med slot taking them up to two
... ---
ECM Fix |
Dhaaka Vincatar
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Posted - 2006.08.01 03:16:00 -
[8]
Oh wait! The Tormentor also only has one midslot!
This makes it completely useless as a PvP frigate!
...
*apologizes for trolling.
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Mordorg
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.01 03:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dano Sarum The two ships mentioned have only 1 midslot, i BELIEVE (allthough i may be wrong) that these are the only ships in the game with ONE midslot.
It's also widely known that due to having only 1 midslot the ships are absolutly worthless PVP, (IIRC AGONY wont take Amarr Destroyers into their Destroyer PvP classes due to its 1 medslot).
I propose simply to give these two ships an extra med slot taking them up to two, This to me seems like an easy fix to make, one thats needed and doesn't harm anyone. While Amarr have a lot of problems and the DEVS don't seem to want to answer any of the long whiney threads out there at the moment, I think this minor change is nessacary and would be a good sign of things to come.
Feedback on this would be good, especially anyone who thinks this is a BAD idea.
Since the Retribution already has 11 slots, it would have to lose a high/low to keep it in line with other Assult ships. And IMO that would hurt it more then the mid would help. If you need tackling, take a friend, or a differant ship.
As for the Coercer, once again, I wouldn't mind it losing a high/low for a mid, but with only 2 mids, and low hp/high sig, its a big target,and it still doesn't have enough mids for them to matter.
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Foulis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.01 04:43:00 -
[10]
sure, and give the wolf another med, the jag another med(shield tank ftw), ishkur another low and enyo another med. ----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
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fmercury
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.01 06:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dhaaka Vincatar Oh wait! The Tormentor also only has one midslot!
This makes it completely useless as a PvP frigate!
...
*apologizes for trolling.
How many people have you ever seen flying tormentors?
If your answer is greater than 'none' you're probably lying.
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Sovy Kurosei
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.01 06:56:00 -
[12]
Don't know why the Coercer doesn't have at least two mid slots. Most Amarr frigates have at least two.
Alternatively I would like to see a tier two destroyer for all races. ___________________
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KillerLU
VakAtioth
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:08:00 -
[13]
Ships with 1 med-slot are no solo ship, but in gangs I don't see a problem? Amarr always tended to suck on the electronic side.
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Hectaire Glade
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:17:00 -
[14]
Get rid of the 5th high slot on the retribution and move it to middle, problem solved, one much more useful ship.
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:20:00 -
[15]
Then Cormorant should have an extra low slot - those ships are limited... If Amarr and Caldari gets another slot so should the opther 2 I guess
Pinky
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Hakuin
The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:27:00 -
[16]
Retribution with 2 mid = overpowered
Just fix small pulse lasers and it will be fine ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few.
- In Rust We Trust - |
Ithildin
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hakuin Retribution with 2 mid = overpowered
Just fix small pulse lasers and it will be fine
I highly doubt it'd be overpowered... unless it just gained a mid slot without losing a low slot or similar. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death |
LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:33:00 -
[18]
Edited by: LUKEC on 01/08/2006 07:34:50
Originally by: KillerLU Ships with 1 med-slot are no solo ship, but in gangs I don't see a problem? Amarr always tended to suck on the electronic side.
So it's like... you suck solo and perform "OK" in gangs, where other ships work "ok" solo and "ok" in gangs.
It's like crow vs crusader ethernal dilemma: Crusader actually works solo but you need web to survive to go solo, where crow comes in allaround package, and doesn't even need web if you know how to fly it. --------- Torture by ccp: pic |
Talori'i
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark Then Cormorant should have an extra low slot - those ships are limited... If Amarr and Caldari gets another slot so should the opther 2 I guess
Pinky
I think giving all the ships an extra slot would be extremely helpful.
Catalyst - Extra mid or extra low. Thrasher - Extra low or mid Cormonant - Extra low Coercer - Extra mid
I think one of the problems with destroyers is that the mid and low slots are not equal to other destroyers, and having mids and lows equal are perfectly fine I think.
Adding an extra slot is going to make some of the ships similar and the only difference being bonus, and ship stats. I think its fine to have two destroyers that have 8 - 3 - 3, and the other two to have 8 - 4 - 2, and 8 - 2 - 4 layout. or 2 ships with the 8 - 4 - 2 layout and 2 with the 8 - 2 - 4 layout.
I also want to see tier 2 destroyers, but before I think we should make destroyers either more viable or more popular in some form.
Destroyers just need some love I think.
4 8 15 16 23 42 |
HappyKitten
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:39:00 -
[20]
All destroyers need another slot.
Retribution should lose a low and gain a mid.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:42:00 -
[21]
The retri is a fine ship with only one mid. Great gank, great tank, f all tackling ability. Friends rule.
Seriously, why must *everything* be similar?
Scrapheap Challenge Forums |
Hakuin
The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.01 07:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 01/08/2006 07:34:50
Originally by: KillerLU Ships with 1 med-slot are no solo ship, but in gangs I don't see a problem? Amarr always tended to suck on the electronic side.
So it's like... you suck solo and perform "OK" in gangs, where other ships work "ok" solo and "ok" in gangs.
It's like crow vs crusader ethernal dilemma: Crusader actually works solo but you need web to survive to go solo, where crow comes in allaround package, and doesn't even need web if you know how to fly it.
What do you think about this:
Crusader bonuses: 10% laser cap reduction per level 10% damage per level.
3 hi 3 mid 4 low.
Overpowered? Prolly. ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few.
- In Rust We Trust - |
Hakuin
The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.01 08:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Hakuin Retribution with 2 mid = overpowered
Just fix small pulse lasers and it will be fine
I highly doubt it'd be overpowered... unless it just gained a mid slot without losing a low slot or similar.
4 hi 2 mid 5 low = overpowered. Ok it still crap like any other 2 mid-slot AFs for "solo". Btw I dunno if you have the cpu for fit a webber/scrambler so it need a massive boost or a total concept rework. ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few.
- In Rust We Trust - |
Wild Rho
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.01 08:30:00 -
[24]
The retribution is a superb ship as it is. It does not need a second mid slot to be effective in pvp. If anything the one mid slot encourages you to be more creative with your setups.
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
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Ithildin
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.01 08:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hakuin
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Hakuin Retribution with 2 mid = overpowered
Just fix small pulse lasers and it will be fine
I highly doubt it'd be overpowered... unless it just gained a mid slot without losing a low slot or similar.
4 hi 2 mid 5 low = overpowered. Ok it still crap like any other 2 mid-slot AFs for "solo". Btw I dunno if you have the cpu for fit a webber/scrambler so it need a massive boost or a total concept rework.
It was such a long time since I flew the Retribution, so I can't actually say anything with accuracy. However, reducing it's high slots by one does very little considering that it's an empty slot in nigh all setups for the ship. Part of this problem is that there's nothing good to go into that slot since small nosferatus are generally weak and too short ranged. With regards to fitting, I shouldn't think a webbifier would be too much problem fitting, since they don't take much CPU. Depends on what is fitted in the other mid slot, of course. I do think there might be problems fitting a web and a disruptor, however. Maybe CPU'd need boosting from 125 to 130-135 (note how the Enyo has 145 CPU with more CPU intensive weapons + an additional launcher hard point). Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death |
Kunming
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.01 10:38:00 -
[26]
1 mid slot Amarr ships were designed before the dmg mod stacking nerf came in. Before that their massive dmg output was covering their lack of mid slots... it was pretty acceptable, but now these ships are rather USELESS!!
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Hakuin
The Blackwater Brigade HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.01 10:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kunming 1 mid slot Amarr ships were designed before the dmg mod stacking nerf came in. Before that their massive dmg output was covering their lack of mid slots... it was pretty acceptable, but now these ships are rather USELESS!!
Bingo.
Apply this to small/medium lasers too. ________ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few.
- In Rust We Trust - |
Dorah Hawkwing
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.08.01 16:49:00 -
[28]
Retribution is fine as it is.. it actually would loose if it lost a low.
Coercer is fine, but honestly, I like the 4 lows. My coercer is quite a nice setup.. go and try to tackle it in an inty. *grin*
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Grimpak
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.01 16:51:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kunming 1 mid slot Amarr ships were designed before the dmg mod stacking nerf came in. Before that their massive dmg output was covering their lack of mid slots... it was pretty acceptable, but now these ships are rather USELESS!!
true there.
so what to do? transform that useless utility high slot into a turret slot and give the ship 20 more base grid and 10 more base CPU.
(yes my dream of mobile turret platform is a 5-turreted retribution) -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Ladythrone
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Posted - 2006.08.01 16:53:00 -
[30]
and on RAVEN too plz we need this
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