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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 04:48:00 -
[1]
standard blah blah I don't represent the alliance blah blah etc etc disclaimer
the thing I don't get most of all: ever since goonfleet was founded, any thread relating to us has consisted of the majority of people calling us noobs and talking about how we'd never amount to anything and how nothing we ever accomplished would be good enough. every. single. thread. then we invade cloud ring and we get called cheaters, hackers, exploiters, etc. we have spent our entire eve existance being insulted on these forums because of who we are. and then the posting ban was lifted. are any of you really actually surprised that after having been insulted for NINE STRAIGHT MONTHS on this forum about who we are, that we're going to respond by trying to **** off as many people as we can? we've figured out that these forums are worthless to us because nothing said here will ever cause people to think better of us because ultimately we will still have the same old people saying we'll never amount to everything. even though I may not agree with everything members of my alliance post on here I am relishing watching this just to see all the people say how shocked they are at our behavior and how disappointed they are at us. guess what, the months of abuse and put downs has caused us to just not care anymore. thanks!
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Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:06:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot I'm not dictating.
You're being held responsible for your decision.
Not the same thing at all (seriously, no joke).
So basically, you're saying you get to determine who is right and who is wrong in this game, and then can enforce your decisions by attempting to erradicate them?
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Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Grayton on 02/08/2006 15:23:39
Originally by: Avon Thing is though, in Eve it doesn't matter who is right, all that matters is who is left.
i see what you did there
Originally by: Blacklight Welcome to Eve where if you have the will and the wherewithal then yes you can enforce whatever you like.
EULA and Concord permitting of course.
So you are agreeing that your alliance is determining who is right and who is wrong through your own statements and means of enforcement?
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Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:26:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot You determine what is right and wrong yourself, and you are responsible for your decision.
The very act of saying you are holding us responsible for our decisions means you are saying what is right and what is wrong for us to do.
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Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Rebellion We're not saying what is right or wrong. We're just saying that the things you have done so far have resulted in us deciding what we are doing now.
Regarding being responsible for your decisions, this is implied for any intelligent life form.
I am not saying we do not hold ourselves responsible for our own decisions (and by responsible I do not mean "at fault"). I am merely trying to confirm that BoB thinks they can determine we are right or wrong in our decisions and then hold us responsible in their own ways, as this seems to be what Sergeant Spot is implying.
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Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:41:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Grayton on 02/08/2006 15:46:53
Originally by: Avon So?
Society judges its members all the time, it is the nature of the beast.
Anyway, why are you so hung up on e-morality in a meaningless internet spaceship game?
So you are saying that BoB forms the basis of society in this game then, as you seem to be the ones bringing forth this judgement?
I am not "hung up" on anything; I'm merely trying to get a better understanding of BoB's actions in this meaningless internet spaceship game.
Originally by: Sergeant Spot We're expressing our opinion on your decision. No matter how you debate it and mince word, YOU make your own decisions, and you are judged on those decisions, always.
I'm something of a fanatic on the concept of free will. Closest thing I have to a religion.
When you finally arrive at a decision STAND BY IT, warts and all. And don't try and hide the warts, that only makes them worse.
If you find you can't stand by a decision when it is expressed "warts and all", both its virtues and flaws freely shown and acknowledged, then you should probably abandon the decision.
I am not arguing that BoB cannot judge us for our actions. Judging is an inherent part of society, as Avon pointed out a few posts up. Nor am I arguing that we should not stand by our decision. I stand by it (whatever "it" even is anymore as the entire issue of this has been convoluted beyond belief). Nor am I also arguing against the concept of Free Will, as I too support that. I am merely trying to establish how exactly BoB sees itself in the Eve community.
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Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:12:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Grayton on 02/08/2006 16:13:36
Originally by: Sergeant Spot Your Decision has been tolerance and acceptance of repeated incidents extremely offensive behavior. You are being held accountable for that.
<snip>
Have you ever told other Goons that there are certain types of offensive behavior that are not acceptable, and MEANT it? Meant it to the point of "enforcing it", even if doing so would be painful?
Stand by your decision, as it is, warts and all (most complex decisions have warts, so its not unusual). Stand by it as it is, or find another decision to stand by.
I do not like giant quote boxes so I snipped the middle of that. So again, this boils down to you judging our acts and decisions as offensive- and enforcing your own set of rules for what is offensive and what isn't offensive on us? Also, I said earlier that the entire situation has become convoluted, and this is an example of it, as I personally thought our decision was not a decision of what is offensive and what is not offensive, but instead of whether or not to support our own membership's ability to free speech, even if we may not agree with what select members may say.
Edit: arg why must there be like 20 new posts as I'm making a reply
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Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rebellion Well, if you are saying that BoB disagree with petulance, distasteful and unfunny jokes, insults to things unrelated to the game, uncontrolled trolling and the lack of basic decency, then I'd have to concur.
You are completely free to say and do whatever you want. Just as people are completely free to say and do whatever they want in reaction to it. This is what BoB is doing: reacting. Basically it's "insult us, and we step on your head".
Thus far GoonSwarm has been a complete and utter disappointment. If Remedial wants to prove to EVE that the alliance is not filled with newbies that are incapable of achieving anything, then at the very least put up some actual resistance.
So you are agreeing with my statement that BoB is deciding what is offensive and what isn't offensive in this game, and imposing their decisions on us through means of force? Also, just because you may not think we are resisting, does not mean we are not resisting. Resistance comes in many forms; it does not have to be limited to just fleet combat.
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Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 17:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rebellion Grayton, interesting ideas about forms of resistance. How exactly do these other forms of resistance play out? Are your members in S-U resisting by making us spend ammo? Are your members that refuse to log in or fight resisting by hoping that we will get bored and leave? Where is the GoonSwarm aliance that did not care how many ships they lost for as long as they had someone to fight?
You did not answer my question about if you are agreeing with my statement or not. And I am not going to be baited by you implying that we are not resisting at all. Think what you want, just know that we are resisting in our own way and will continue to as things solidify after returning from Cloud Ring. Patience is a virtue, you know; just because BoB wants us to launch massive blobs against them immediately, doesn't mean we have to. Also, I don't really get attached to point of sales machines. Thanks for wondering if we do, though.
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Grayton
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.02 17:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rebellion Grayton: various forms of resistance mean nothing if we do not see their effects. While there is no actual armed resistance being offered, and while we continue to shoot GoonSwarm pilots down like flies in S-U, we will continue to be disapointed at the laughable lack of resitance offered by an alliace that is so ambitious.
You have still not answered about whether or not you agree with my question that BoB is deciding what is offensive and what isn't offensive in this game, and imposing their decisions on us through means of force? I find it odd that you expect for resistance to be immediate and on a huge scale, especially since we are returning from two months of constant war. Once again, patience is a virtue.
I am not going to comment on the first and second paragraphs of your post as, no offense, but it is just things that have been rehashed over and over.
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