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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Brannor McThife
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:21:00 -
[1]
Now I'm probably going to get a lot of flames/flak for this, but I'm also getting tired of people from "out there" complaining that L4 mission runners get too much ISK, and they keep calling for missions to be nerfed a lot...
So, I'm turning this around. I would like it if CCP nerfed the respawns of belt rats. Stop people sitting and cyclically farming "Tripple 1.85m BS spawns". Surely they are exploiting a game mechanic just like the L4 World's Collide?
Come on CCP, make those spawns once off, and then once all the ships are dead, make a different, random, spawn happen. No more of this ISK on a silver platter stuff.
kkthxbye.
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
Chip2k3
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:25:00 -
[2]
Yes you are going to get lots of flames. I'm currently chaining a very pretty spawn as I type...You don't want your missions nerfed so why do you want our spawns nerfed? I havent got a problem with L4 mission running, or using the mechanics of the game. Dont moan at us and we wont moan at you.
Kthxbye yourself I got a jar of dirt!!! |
Pepperami
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:25:00 -
[3]
Actually, often I'd make more money killing off all spawns because you are much more likely to find a faction/officer spawn.
kthx
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PeeWee Pee
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:25:00 -
[4]
whatz up yer rear end today dude? ever tried belt ratting in 0.8 iz that how you want us to play da game. me thinks you just want to drive peepz away from eve. how are we exploiting da game by hunting rats in belts you suppose to tell me they not be there and ccp ferked it up again. get a clue sucker...
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:27:00 -
[5]
Not possible. "Tripple 1.85M BS spawns" is the main attraction of 0.0 tour. I also heard that complex running could earn 2B/3B a day. ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
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Blind Man
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:27:00 -
[6]
rofl, if anything 0.0 spawns need a boost. its called risk/reward?
WTS Estamel's Modified X-Large Shield Booster
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PeeWee Pee
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:29:00 -
[7]
Edited by: PeeWee Pee on 01/08/2006 21:29:53
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I also heard that complex running could earn 2B/3B a day.
have you doneit?
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: PeeWee Pee
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Not possible. "Tripple 1.85M BS spawns" is the main attraction of 0.0 tour. I also heard that complex running could earn 2B/3B a day.
have you doneit?
If I can get the key on a weekend ... ---------------- Patience is a quality that most people seem to lack.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:33:00 -
[9]
the reward is ok imo,
its the challenge that needs a boost.
having the 500k pretty easy, and the 1.85m alot more difficult would rock.
but imo the whole belt ratting needs a redesign, as its so boring. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Not possible. "Tripple 1.85M BS spawns" is the main attraction of 0.0 tour.
But you're not there to chain spawns (read: farm), rather to claim/protect sovereignty. You're out in 0.0 to fight damnit!
You know... PvP...what us "carebear" types apparently know nothing of, since apparently all we do all day is farm ISK in L4 missions "without risk"...
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
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Chip2k3
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:38:00 -
[11]
OK, so why arent you asking to remove all good ores from 0.0 too? Your there to fight dammit! Right??
I got a jar of dirt!!! |
Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Not possible. "Tripple 1.85M BS spawns" is the main attraction of 0.0 tour.
But you're not there to chain spawns (read: farm), rather to claim/protect sovereignty. You're out in 0.0 to fight damnit!
You know... PvP...what us "carebear" types apparently know nothing of, since apparently all we do all day is farm ISK in L4 missions "without risk"...
-G
Who are you to tell me why I'm in 0.0 and what I should be doing there? Sig removed, inappropriate content - Cortes |
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:40:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 01/08/2006 21:40:53
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Not possible. "Tripple 1.85M BS spawns" is the main attraction of 0.0 tour.
But you're not there to chain spawns (read: farm), rather to claim/protect sovereignty. You're out in 0.0 to fight damnit!
You know... PvP...what us "carebear" types apparently know nothing of, since apparently all we do all day is farm ISK in L4 missions "without risk"...
-G
You're out there to fight and to control resources. 0.0 resources, from NPCs to complexes to asteroids and minerals are built to be of better quality than what you'll find in lowsec and highsec space. Risk vs. Reward, etc., etc..
EDIT: In regards to the OP, simply no. As others have said, the income from belt ratting could use a boost, not a nerf. -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
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PeeWee Pee
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Not possible. "Tripple 1.85M BS spawns" is the main attraction of 0.0 tour.
But you're not there to chain spawns (read: farm), rather to claim/protect sovereignty. You're out in 0.0 to fight damnit!
You know... PvP...what us "carebear" types apparently know nothing of, since apparently all we do all day is farm ISK in L4 missions "without risk"...
-G
zomg we're not worthy! bring on da hippo loser!
let the whorus commence singing.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:44:00 -
[15]
Just for the record, I'm 100% for removing the farmability of missions, i.e. no respawn of rats regardless of DT...and even though I am currently farming World's Collide, it should be alterred (not just moved to low sec) to stop the ability to farm stuff so easily and repeatedly.
And ok... the whole "you're out there to fight" was a little bit of a dig. Play how you like, but farming of anything isn't right. It's as bad as those people that farmed the market right after DT (old bug/exploit).
Hell, imagine how many people would complain if asteroids respawned to 100,000m^3 within a few minutes of you popping it?
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
UPA Terf
Core Domination
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Posted - 2006.08.01 21:58:00 -
[16]
You are quite aware that nerfing 0.0 belt spawns would give a very large amount of people very little to do in 0.0 right? the economy in 0.0 is strained as it is and there are very few people out there who are able to recreate an empire market in 0.0. Now the simplest and quickest way to recreate hundreds of Mill worth of mins flooding the market every day in empire (lowsec and high) is to have these spawns in 0.0 that drop decent recyclable loot that we as players... not just as miners... not just as fighters... are able to pick up at any point and create a balanced economy in the most hostile place in the game world. L4 mission runners on the other hand are having fun and yes they reserve a reward if the risk is appropriate (e.g. less than say 0.6 l4 missions) but if they get missions easily soloable in less than half an hour in a high sec system and then can go and recycle the loot creating more mins easily than a 0.0 ratter could manage in a day in less than half that then yes something should be done.
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Xelios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:02:00 -
[17]
The problem with Worlds Collide isn't so much the farming, it's that you can farm it in secure space. You can farm belt spawns too, but you're always at risk of being blown up by some passer by. Not to mention you give up hauler/commander/officer spawns by doing so, which can easily be worth a week of chaining/mining.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xelios The problem with Worlds Collide isn't so much the farming, it's that you can farm it in secure space. You can farm belt spawns too, but you're always at risk of being blown up by some passer by. Not to mention you give up hauler/commander/officer spawns by doing so, which can easily be worth a week of chaining/mining.
You have people passing by in your alliance protected space?
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
HappyKitten
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Wrayeth As others have said, the income from belt ratting could use a boost, not a nerf.
I would argue that it doesn't need boosting, particularly not like the ratting existed on RMR SiSi testing (if anyone else remembers that). Nerfing it would be ridiculous though.
Personally, I'm all for imcreasing the profit a bit (f/ex: 1.85mil BSs to become 2mil), but making them an actual challenge, so it is in fact hard to kill a triple 2mil BS spawn in a BS.
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Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Xelios The problem with Worlds Collide isn't so much the farming, it's that you can farm it in secure space. You can farm belt spawns too, but you're always at risk of being blown up by some passer by. Not to mention you give up hauler/commander/officer spawns by doing so, which can easily be worth a week of chaining/mining.
You have people passing by in your alliance protected space?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Have you ever been to 0.0?
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Xelios The problem with Worlds Collide isn't so much the farming, it's that you can farm it in secure space. You can farm belt spawns too, but you're always at risk of being blown up by some passer by. Not to mention you give up hauler/commander/officer spawns by doing so, which can easily be worth a week of chaining/mining.
You have people passing by in your alliance protected space?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Have you ever been to 0.0?
Im not in a alliance, but ive been around 0.0 abit. Is this the part where you tell me how dangerous it is?
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:15:00 -
[22]
After doing both I can safely say there is more risk doing an L4 mission than there is belt ratting. The rat spawns in 0.0 are a piece of cake. You can clear a triple 1.85M spawn with a half assed fitting in a tier 1 BS.
The only risk in 0.0 is that you may get jumped by players while ratting. The only way to lose a ship ratting is to fall asleep. I think the 0.0 spawns should be boosted as 0.0 is dull, apart from PvP, but there is plenty of empire wars to gain the PvP. That's why no one is out there.
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Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:15:00 -
[23]
Originally by: HappyKitten
Originally by: Wrayeth As others have said, the income from belt ratting could use a boost, not a nerf.
I would argue that it doesn't need boosting, particularly not like the ratting existed on RMR SiSi testing (if anyone else remembers that). Nerfing it would be ridiculous though.
Personally, I'm all for imcreasing the profit a bit (f/ex: 1.85mil BSs to become 2mil), but making them an actual challenge, so it is in fact hard to kill a triple 2mil BS spawn in a BS.
Personally I think belt ratting is at just the right level. Relatively new players can still do it. Once they are into a BS. And when you are new to BS combat, and have nub skills. A triple 1.8 spawn will mess you up bad.
But just so we are clear, you the mission running ***** think that belt rats are too weak? Didn't you once spend 18 hours in a lvl4 mission while sleeping?
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:17:00 -
[24]
Missions need a nerf, belt rats need a boost.
Why? Because you have to leave empire to run belts, and they are esepecially spawned for your enjoyment with nobody else being able to take them away from you.
Mission running sucks, it's the mini-WOW inside of Eve, let's get rid of it.
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Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Xelios The problem with Worlds Collide isn't so much the farming, it's that you can farm it in secure space. You can farm belt spawns too, but you're always at risk of being blown up by some passer by. Not to mention you give up hauler/commander/officer spawns by doing so, which can easily be worth a week of chaining/mining.
You have people passing by in your alliance protected space?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Have you ever been to 0.0?
Im not in a alliance, but ive been around 0.0 abit. Is this the part where you tell me how dangerous it is?
No, actually I just assumed you were living in 0.0 and being a snot. Since that is not the case, I will simply say this.
Yes, enemies spend a great deal of time and effort to get into your territory with the intent of finding and killing unaware ratters and miners. It happens DAILY. Even in a region with a roving combat patrol 23 hours a day. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
HappyKitten
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: HappyKitten
Originally by: Wrayeth As others have said, the income from belt ratting could use a boost, not a nerf.
I would argue that it doesn't need boosting, particularly not like the ratting existed on RMR SiSi testing (if anyone else remembers that). Nerfing it would be ridiculous though.
Personally, I'm all for imcreasing the profit a bit (f/ex: 1.85mil BSs to become 2mil), but making them an actual challenge, so it is in fact hard to kill a triple 2mil BS spawn in a BS.
Personally I think belt ratting is at just the right level. Relatively new players can still do it. Once they are into a BS. And when you are new to BS combat, and have nub skills. A triple 1.8 spawn will mess you up bad.
But just so we are clear, you the mission running ***** think that belt rats are too weak? Didn't you once spend 18 hours in a lvl4 mission while sleeping?
I also think level4 rats are too weak. I think they should all be much less predicatable, but given that unpredictable AI is pretty much unheard of in games, I'm happy to see a straight-up increase in difficulty in pretty much all PvE (I haven't experienced high-level plex running, but it sounds predictable and thus easily farmable). This can of course be proven by the ease in which all profitable PvE is farmed where possible (COSMOS is the exception, because it can only be done once, whatever you choose. Though I did farm the 11mil Dark Blood BS spawn in Amarr COSMOS for a while).
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Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: HappyKitten
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: HappyKitten
Originally by: Wrayeth As others have said, the income from belt ratting could use a boost, not a nerf.
I would argue that it doesn't need boosting, particularly not like the ratting existed on RMR SiSi testing (if anyone else remembers that). Nerfing it would be ridiculous though.
Personally, I'm all for imcreasing the profit a bit (f/ex: 1.85mil BSs to become 2mil), but making them an actual challenge, so it is in fact hard to kill a triple 2mil BS spawn in a BS.
Personally I think belt ratting is at just the right level. Relatively new players can still do it. Once they are into a BS. And when you are new to BS combat, and have nub skills. A triple 1.8 spawn will mess you up bad.
But just so we are clear, you the mission running ***** think that belt rats are too weak? Didn't you once spend 18 hours in a lvl4 mission while sleeping?
I also think level4 rats are too weak. I think they should all be much less predicatable, but given that unpredictable AI is pretty much unheard of in games, I'm happy to see a straight-up increase in difficulty in pretty much all PvE (I haven't experienced high-level plex running, but it sounds predictable and thus easily farmable). This can of course be proven by the ease in which all profitable PvE is farmed where possible (COSMOS is the exception, because it can only be done once, whatever you choose. Though I did farm the 11mil Dark Blood BS spawn in Amarr COSMOS for a while).
Fair enough.
I wouldn't mind seeing the AI fight at a higher level. It would at least be interesting. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
Dred 'Morte
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:25:00 -
[28]
I want to add that I have no relation with any alliance and I hunt NPCs in the 0.0 belts. It's a very dangerous job to do. It's a constant tick tack... staring at the local channel more than the combat. And even if one can consider it kinda easy to maintain yourself alive inside 0.0, getting in and out of 0.0 to sell loot, refit drones, upgrade ship, etc... it's one big adventure. And if the risk kicks in before the reward, your screwed!
Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
nahtoh
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: UPA Terf You are quite aware that nerfing 0.0 belt spawns would give a very large amount of people very little to do in 0.0 right? the economy in 0.0 is strained as it is and there are very few people out there who are able to recreate an empire market in 0.0. Now the simplest and quickest way to recreate hundreds of Mill worth of mins flooding the market every day in empire (lowsec and high) is to have these spawns in 0.0 that drop decent recyclable loot that we as players... not just as miners... not just as fighters... are able to pick up at any point and create a balanced economy in the most hostile place in the game world. L4 mission runners on the other hand are having fun and yes they reserve a reward if the risk is appropriate (e.g. less than say 0.6 l4 missions) but if they get missions easily soloable in less than half an hour in a high sec system and then can go and recycle the loot creating more mins easily than a 0.0 ratter could manage in a day in less than half that then yes something should be done.
Urgh no, sorry bullcrap. You tend to get more loot dropping from 0.0 rats than you do from lvl 4 missions...
Granted moving it to station where you can recycle it is a bigger pain in the ass, more and better loot from the 0.0 spawns I havehnted was the rule... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:33:00 -
[30]
the nerfing of lvl 4 mission and/or belt spawns would be a stupid move as they are balanced, and don't come with more risc in 0.0 because there is just as much risc me kissing you @ some place in the dark... ___________________
Eating Chopped Bear: |
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:34:00 -
[31]
"The problem with Worlds Collide isn't so much the farming, it's that you can farm it in secure space. You can farm belt spawns too, but you're always at risk of being blown up by some passer by. Not to mention you give up hauler/commander/officer spawns by doing so, which can easily be worth a week of chaining/mining."
Right since when is watching local and warping to a safespot some kind of big risk? have done missions and 0.0 ratting, frankly neither one invokes significant thoughts to risk to me. ratting in 0.0 involves very LITTLE risk especially once you have bookmarked the travel path. I will say this 0.0 can be alot more inconvenient though, IE you do need to warp out to a SS everytime someone shows up in local if your solo.
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UPA Terf
Core Domination
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:52:00 -
[32]
"Right since when is watching local and warping to a safespot some kind of big risk? have done missions and 0.0 ratting, frankly neither one invokes significant thoughts to risk to me. ratting in 0.0 involves very LITTLE risk especially once you have bookmarked the travel path. I will say this 0.0 can be alot more inconvenient though, IE you do need to warp out to a SS everytime someone shows up in local if your solo."
So in other words once you are prepared for everything you believe could happen to you without even facing the rats themselves you have done a hell of a lot of work in sorting BM's and even getting to the 0.0 system as well as keeping local open.. that there is very, as you put it so nicely in caps, LITTLE risk? say over sitting there having a conversation in corp window only stopping to change target? hmm... i would say i know which one sounds riskier personally
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Dred 'Morte
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.01 22:56:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 01/08/2006 22:57:34 There is a lot of risk and your an idiot if you say otherwise. Perhaps there are some very peaceful 0.0 systems and most of have gankers lurking around.
The reason you guys say it's so safe is because you have insta bookmarks and safespot bookmarks everywhere. Well guess what, no everyone has instas. I CANT have instas. And safespots are useless if your warp scrambled before you can warp out, which is very commun.
Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
Dr Happy
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Posted - 2006.08.01 23:04:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dred 'Morte Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 01/08/2006 22:57:34 There is a lot of risk and your an idiot if you say otherwise. Perhaps there are some very peaceful 0.0 systems and most of have gankers lurking around.
The reason you guys say it's so safe is because you have insta bookmarks and safespot bookmarks everywhere. Well guess what, no everyone has instas. I CANT have instas. And safespots are useless if your warp scrambled before you can warp out, which is very commun.
or if there bored and are will to probe you out
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Xelios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.01 23:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "The problem with Worlds Collide isn't so much the farming, it's that you can farm it in secure space. You can farm belt spawns too, but you're always at risk of being blown up by some passer by. Not to mention you give up hauler/commander/officer spawns by doing so, which can easily be worth a week of chaining/mining."
Right since when is watching local and warping to a safespot some kind of big risk? have done missions and 0.0 ratting, frankly neither one invokes significant thoughts to risk to me. ratting in 0.0 involves very LITTLE risk especially once you have bookmarked the travel path. I will say this 0.0 can be alot more inconvenient though, IE you do need to warp out to a SS everytime someone shows up in local if your solo.
Great, so there's ways of dealing with those risks, but they still exist. And like you said, when someone enters the system you're ratting in you need to warp to a safe or you die, that means you have to stop ratting and very likely lose the spawn you're chaining. When you're chaining Worlds Collide you don't have to worry about anything, no one can interrupt you, you don't have to watch local, you don't have to prepare safespots in advance and you don't need to worry about things like deploying drones or aligning with a target's transversal (both of which put you at risk in 0.0).
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Amerame
Section XIII
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Posted - 2006.08.01 23:16:00 -
[36]
Ratting in belt in 0.0 is by far the most dangerous farming, it's way more dangerous than complexe running, mission running and mining. If anything it needs a boost, because it is also the least profitable way of making ISK in 0.0.
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Dr Depression
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Posted - 2006.08.01 23:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Amerame Ratting in belt in 0.0 is by far the most dangerous farming, it's way more dangerous than complexe running, mission running and mining. If anything it needs a boost, because it is also the least profitable way of making ISK in 0.0.
oooh you never has a full setup minig op in 0.0 have you. EVERyone know it';s a mini op when they look on the screen and it send pirats comign for miles
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Shittake
RONA Deepspace CORE.
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Posted - 2006.08.01 23:25:00 -
[38]
It hass been my experience that "chaining" NPCs no longer makes sense if you ratting for bounties and loot. The respawn is very slow these days - not like the good old days. You would rather "agress up" a system by killing everything off, over and over again, in the hopes of getting an officer. I see no need to nerf it.
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nahtoh
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 23:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: UPA Terf Edited by: UPA Terf on 01/08/2006 23:01:59
EDIT: a 3 spawn bs in 0.0 (maybe 4 for an officer) or a 6-7 bs spawn in highsec missions sometimes only a few jumps from a market hub...nahtoh please tell me exactly what your point was?
Loots better, more of it..but its harder to get to a station, better bounties=0.0. Yes logistics are harder and moving your gear is harder in 0.0...but its better gear you find.
Sorry done both and 0.0 is <if you can keep your losses down> more profitable. Minerials rom refined loot...more rom 0.0 IF you police all your loot. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
UPA Terf
Core Domination
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Posted - 2006.08.02 00:04:00 -
[40]
why sorry? that wasnt the point at all. The point it despite being more profitable it is just as if not more risky than lvl 4 mission running... contrary to what the starter of the post said.
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Cmdr Sy
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.08.02 00:07:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Stop people sitting and cyclically farming "Tripple 1.85m BS spawns".
WTB Triple 1.85m BS spawn in Syndicate.
Hell, anything over 950k is a rarity out there, and triple spawns, I wished. I can make more money running L3s in a HAC in high sec.
I think instead of nerfing the lot, you need to look at some specific regions.
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nahtoh
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.02 00:11:00 -
[42]
Originally by: UPA Terf why sorry? that wasnt the point at all. The point it despite being more profitable it is just as if not more risky than lvl 4 mission running... contrary to what the starter of the post said.
I was repying to your "lvl 4 runners get more loot to refine than 0.0 ratters" ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Dastur
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.02 00:15:00 -
[43]
Originally by: UPA Terf You are quite aware that nerfing 0.0 belt spawns would give a very large amount of people very little to do in 0.0 right? the economy in 0.0 is strained as it is and there are very few people out there who are able to recreate an empire market in 0.0.
Mmm, I wonder why?
Perhaps if 0.0 stopped shooting at everything that moves and actually tried to foster a multiregional market it may have more people interested in recreating said market?
Instead all I seem to see in 0.0 space is "He bud, this is my sandbox so shoo off" attitude.
R -- It's easy to fly, It's easy to land. The hard part is to land the thing in one piece! --
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R3dSh1ft
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.02 00:35:00 -
[44]
I'm not against changing the way NPCs function as yes its a little dry to farm them for hours at a time.
To break it down to the essentials - combat specced pilots need a way to pay for their pvping. If the rats were nerfed they would have to turn to mining unless another lucrative cash cow was made for them.
Personally if CCP 'kicked me in the teeth' by telling me i had to mine for my isk, I would quickly lose interest in EvE.
So if there is no way for the combat pilots in 0.0 to make money they just go back to empire and fight empire wars - which makes more lag, so isn't going to happen imho.
After all EvE is supposed to be a freeform game where you can choose your path. If your path is alliance fighter and the belt rats are nerfed, there leaves not much left for us in 0.0 ______________________________________
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Deja Thoris
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 00:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Now I'm probably going to get a lot of flames/flak for this, but I'm also getting tired of people from "out there" complaining that L4 mission runners get too much ISK, and they keep calling for missions to be nerfed a lot...
So, I'm turning this around. I would like it if CCP nerfed the respawns of belt rats. Stop people sitting and cyclically farming "Tripple 1.85m BS spawns". Surely they are exploiting a game mechanic just like the L4 World's Collide?
Come on CCP, make those spawns once off, and then once all the ships are dead, make a different, random, spawn happen. No more of this ISK on a silver platter stuff.
kkthxbye.
-G
Have you ever farmed in 0.0?
P.S. Your "sig" is wrong. The absolution does more than 150% of the zealot. I'll leave you to figure out why...
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Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.02 00:57:00 -
[46]
.... nerf belt rats and ull be getting a visit from my personal nerf bat! yarrrrr!!!
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Akasha Kadore
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Posted - 2006.08.02 00:58:00 -
[47]
Well if you ask me all rats need to be made tougher and i dont just mean the 0.0 ones i mean .8 and down, you dont need to increase there bounty just the size of the spawns.
0.0 we need to start seeing carrier and dread spawns in the more lower level 0.0 systems
but the rats we have in empire now are just boring to kill and no risk, Plus if we made the rats tougher alot tougher than you wouldnt get any of these macrotards tanking them in barges.
Tbh i dont see the point in nerfing 0.0 bets spawns or missions they dont seem to be much of a diference isk per hour in doing either. and who gives a toss about risk vs reward let people play the game the way they want to.
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Dr Happy
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Posted - 2006.08.02 01:02:00 -
[48]
I make 3 or 4 time as much mingin in my high end 0.0 system as I do ratting and they bother have the best of both for ratign and mining. I guess I might make mroe if I do a 10/10 but I'm nto compelte sure I kno how to eve run those
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Deja Thoris
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 01:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dr Happy I make 3 or 4 time as much mingin
mingin is what minmatars do so well
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Dr Depression
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Posted - 2006.08.02 01:36:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Dr Happy I make 3 or 4 time as much mingin
mingin is what minmatars do so well
llew yrev enim ew wtf nginim
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Isolda Kargil
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Posted - 2006.08.02 01:43:00 -
[51]
Why would people want a slice of 0.0 anyway if there is nothing of value/profitable there.
What you're basically saying is that any way of making money without too much hassle should be removed. So sitting in station and checking market to skim the market for good deals to then later on sell to the highest bidder should also be removed? And that's just the exaggeration argument. There's also the much more important risk vs reward argument. CCP clearly designed this game to have the money making in check with the risk they take to make it, 0.0 spawns are well in tune with that. They're profitable, but only if you do it for a loooong time. And anything you do for 10 hours straight is profitable.
-Isolda Advertising space for hire. Contact in game. |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.02 03:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: PeeWee Pee whatz up yer rear end today dude? ever tried belt ratting in 0.8 iz that how you want us to play da game. me thinks you just want to drive peepz away from eve. how are we exploiting da game by hunting rats in belts you suppose to tell me they not be there and ccp ferked it up again. get a clue sucker...
If it were posssible to convict a person of raping a language via a forum you'd be looking at the death penalty right now.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.02 03:45:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Amerame Ratting in belt in 0.0 is by far the most dangerous farming, it's way more dangerous than complexe running, mission running and mining. If anything it needs a boost, because it is also the least profitable way of making ISK in 0.0.
Right up until you find that Officer spawn.
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Blind Man
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.02 04:14:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Not to mention you give up hauler/commander/officer spawns by doing so, which can easily be worth a week of chaining/mining."
i got a tuvan spawn yesterday, loot was worth under 100m total (no modded items)
WTS Estamel's Modified X-Large Shield Booster
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Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.02 06:53:00 -
[55]
what people complain about is the risk Vs. Reward factor.
in 0.0, you have to worry about NPC rats, as well as Player rats.
Now, if Deadspace became a "no-COncord" zone, then I could see level 4's keeping their payouts, as someone could see you in it, and pop in and kill you, just like in 0.0
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Gothikia
Regeneration Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.02 06:57:00 -
[56]
I think TomB's minions should get a boost, not a nerf. In fact the angels are probably the most fun to go up against, and certainly the most hardest.
Regeneration - Nothing is better than us, Not Even Doom Music! |
Gothikia
Regeneration Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.02 06:59:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dastur
Instead all I seem to see in 0.0 space is "He bud, this is my sandbox so shoo off" attitude.
accually its more a "Trespassers will be shot in the face, survivors will be shot again" sort of attitude.
Regeneration - Nothing is better than us, Not Even Doom Music! |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.02 07:10:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Brannor McThife
But you're not there to chain spawns (read: farm), rather to claim/protect sovereignty. You're out in 0.0 to fight damnit!
...why do you think we're fighting? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Boonaki
Caldari Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.08.02 08:52:00 -
[59]
I think it's time to remove all level 4 missions from .5+ and move them to 0.0-0.4 space, risk vs reward right?
Fear the Ibis of doom! |
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Ivan Kirilenkov
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.08.02 09:30:00 -
[60]
Thread cleaned. Avoid trolling and completely non-coherent posts :)
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Khajit Smitty
Minmatar MisFunk Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 10:45:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Khajit Smitty on 02/08/2006 10:45:33 Truth be told ,L4 mission runners do get to much ISK in comparison to the risk they take,not all L4's offer huge payout just the ones that are farmed like worlds collide, now please dont tell me that there is a "risk" in running a L4 that you have run a million and one times with your faction fitted T2 HAC or T2 command ship.
In a L4 mission in empire the only risk you ever have is the intial encouter if you have never done the mission before or if you make a mistake, in 0.0 the risks are forever changing and are never constant.
Risk : A factor, thing, element, or course involving uncertain danger; a hazard.
I do however think that belt ratting needs some more diversity to it, maybe ratting can be done at planets aswell ? make them tougher and worth alot more, hey maybe even moons too - add more depth to the ratting.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.08.02 10:51:00 -
[62]
lag takes care of em
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GruFF83
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.08.02 10:54:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Blind Man rofl, if anything 0.0 spawns need a boost. its called risk/reward?
I disagree with that post. There's hardly no risk in killing rats in 0.0 belts providing your watching local - I can quite easily tank and kill a triple 1.5 mil BS spawn in 0.0. However i cannot complete a lvl 4 mission, bcoz those things are hard!
I think theres more chance of loosing a ship in a lvl4 mission that loosing one whilst ratting in 0.0 - for that reason I rat in 0.0. leave the mission runners alone.
Edited first sentence for lack of civil content :) -Ivan K
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 11:38:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 02/08/2006 11:39:47 I am someone who does 0.0 ratting as well as Lvl4 missions in lowsec. Ratting in 0.0 is probebly safer than low sec missionrunning, and I have been jumped a few times doing low sec lvl4's (faction smartbombs scare off so many pirate )To be honest, the only reason I do missions is that it is more fun than belt ratting.
So the situation of risk/reward is non-existant in either case - Being jumped doing either is possible, and people would say you are more likely to be jumped in 0.4 than in deep 0.0 ratting belts. I would say that this is the case. Eitherway there are lots of agents in 0.0/lowsec for people to mission run.
Now that leaves a situation - Why the heck nerf 0.0/low sec lvl4 mission runners? Whats the logic, since you want to encorage people to move into Unsafe space? Nerf high sec missions for all I care, but restore 0.0/lowsec missions back to their original status :)
EDIT: The Point is restore 0.0/lowsec agents rather than nerf them as with high sec agents! --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Zorthal Darendal
Gallente Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.02 11:46:00 -
[65]
I run lvl4 missions in a HAC, and have done 0.0 ratting in an AF and BS, even a cruiser way back. Each scenario has pro's and con's If u r ratting in alliance space, it is usually easier coz u can get a heads-up on PC rats, and have SS setup. Will be very different if not in alliance in somebody elses 0.0 space. As for killing belt rats in 0.0, they r easy to kill (well the rats I've seen anyway, and usually not seen more than 6 npc's at one time).
With doing missions, about 85% are run in deadspace, which is why I'm amazed nobody has mentioned MWD's ??? Yes some are easy and farmable, but most of them have been nerfed (eg Infiltrated Outposts). Also the sheer number of npc's on missions is staggering on some missions.
I agree that it easier for mission runners to process their loot, ut then 0.0 belt ratters should arrange for BM's, coz as far as I'm concerned, going into low sec without them is nuts.
I think because of the variety of experience of players, that each scenario is different for eachother.
And i still avoid Angel Extravaganza like the plague
############################To Infinity... ....and back before lunch
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:06:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Khajit Smitty ...now please dont tell me that there is a "risk" in running a L4 that you have run a million and one times with your faction fitted T2 HAC or T2 command ship.
Not everyone can fly/afford T2 HACs, let alone Command Ships. And there is lots of risks in L4 missions. One bit of lag when warping in on a multi-BS, multi-HAC, multi-Tackler warp in point = death.
Originally by: Khajit Smitty
In a L4 mission in empire the only risk you ever have is the intial encouter if you have never done the mission before or if you make a mistake...
Not so. There are quite a number of L4 missions where you don't really know what to expect. A number of spawns are random. When you are forced to warp in at 5km from rats that can (and do) warp scramble you, jam you (gurista) and because there are more than just 3 ships - do more damage; in 0.0, then you can keep your rewards.
Originally by: Khajit Smitty ...in 0.0 the risks are forever changing and are never constant.
How so? Hardly see how they're as uncertain as you claim, since everyone seems to say it's quite certain that the "only" risk you face is from aggresive players...that doesn't seem uncertain. See unknown (or known enemy) in local, warp to station/SS...fairly routine and you have time to respond before they pick the belt you're in and warp to you...
Originally by: Khajit Smitty
I do however think that belt ratting needs some more diversity to it, maybe ratting can be done at planets aswell ? make them tougher and worth alot more, hey maybe even moons too - add more depth to the ratting.
Adding rats to planets just gives you more spawns and more isk. Making rats tougher and worth more... well, when you come across a spawn in a belt, have the tackler rats warp out and back in at random ranges...that'll make it worth the risk.
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar Blood Inquisition
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:27:00 -
[67]
If they are hunting in 0.0 then they have either fought for the right to NPC in that area or are doing it with a risk involved. I disagree with the OP.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:32:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Aodha Khan If they are hunting in 0.0 then they have either fought for the right to NPC in that area or are doing it with a risk involved. I disagree with the OP.
And how so have L4 mission runners NOT earned the same type of privilege?
It takes time to be able to do L4 missions, and it most definately takes far more skill to solo many of the L4's than it does to belt-rat in 0.0.
And some of those people that are ratting out there, didn't EARN the right to be there...they just joined a corp/alliance that had done all the hard work...
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
Gumdrop
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:36:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Khajit Smitty Edited by: Khajit Smitty on 02/08/2006 10:45:33 Truth be told ,L4 mission runners do get to much ISK in comparison to the risk they take,not all L4's offer huge payout just the ones that are farmed like worlds collide, now please dont tell me that there is a "risk" in running a L4 that you have run a million and one times with your faction fitted T2 HAC or T2 command ship.
In a L4 mission in empire the only risk you ever have is the intial encouter if you have never done the mission before or if you make a mistake, in 0.0 the risks are forever changing and are never constant.
Risk : A factor, thing, element, or course involving uncertain danger; a hazard.
I do however think that belt ratting needs some more diversity to it, maybe ratting can be done at planets aswell ? make them tougher and worth alot more, hey maybe even moons too - add more depth to the ratting.
ya and there should be rats in dreads that attack your pos and rats carriers that drop pos fuel for whatever region they are in
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Khajit Smitty
Minmatar MisFunk Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:37:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Brannor McThife One bit of lag when warping in on a multi-BS, multi-HAC, multi-Tackler warp in point = death.
One bit of lag when jumping into a system with multi-bs, multi-Hac,multi-tackler,multiple bubbles sitting on the gate you coming through = death.
Lag is a 2-way road,it cannot be used as a valid point in an argument such as yours.
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Not so. There are quite a number of L4 missions where you don't really know what to expect. A number of spawns are random. When you are forced to warp in at 5km from rats that can (and do) warp scramble you, jam you (gurista) and because there are more than just 3 ships
3 ships ey? havent ratted much in deep 0.0 have you know hey? Our spawns tackle,jam,dampen just as much as yours
Originally by: Brannor McThife
How so? Hardly see how they're as uncertain as you claim, since everyone seems to say it's quite certain that the "only" risk you face is from aggresive players...that doesn't seem uncertain. See unknown (or known enemy) in local, warp to station/SS...fairly routine and you have time to respond before they pick the belt you're in and warp to you...
So you agree that 0.0 is more riskier then, as you have to pay attention to local,and well if you dont then die. You also seem to be forgetting if a hostile force starts camping the system kinda causes you to have a slight problem with rattin so you need to log or fight,fighting results in death,ie risk.
P.S - Safe spots can be probed, they are not that safe. Once again more risk.
Soooo you watch local like a hawk in 0.7 do you? You travel 34 jumps with a scout ahead of you to locate a hostile force in empire do you? You stay docked in a station when 20 hostiles are sitting outside in empire do you? - I think not.
Granted L4 are tough sure,but once you have the know how they become easy, can i ask when did you last loose a ship to a mission?
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Adding rats to planets just gives you more spawns and more isk. Making rats tougher and worth more... well, when you come across a spawn in a belt, have the tackler rats warp out and back in at random ranges...that'll make it worth the risk.
Sure if its done at planets and the reward is worth more, and i did say tougher by the way.
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Khajit Smitty
Minmatar MisFunk Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:39:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Khajit Smitty on 02/08/2006 12:42:54 To the OP, when where you last podded by the way ? When where you last in 0.0 ?
I must admit though i feel that mission rats and belt rats should scramble and pod you after all if you are attacking them they should be allowed to exact full revenge on you.
Dreadnought spawns, Carrier spawns(proper ones) - why the heck not, just make them tough as nails yet the reward to kill them is worth it.
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lofty29
Gallente Tolarri Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:40:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: PeeWee Pee
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Not possible. "Tripple 1.85M BS spawns" is the main attraction of 0.0 tour. I also heard that complex running could earn 2B/3B a day.
have you doneit?
If I can get the key on a weekend ...
Like that machariel a fleet of us killed back when I was in KOS. Came back carrying 2 bil in overseers, a machariel BPC, about 2 bil of fitting and some lesser stuff. Crikey ---------------------------
Originally by: HippoKing ...I suck at forums
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Zorthal Darendal
Gallente Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:40:00 -
[73]
I don't know about low sec and 0.0, but I know of at least one planet in empire where there is an npc spawn at a planet... ############################To Infinity... ....and back before lunch
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:43:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Khajit Smitty
Originally by: Brannor McThife One bit of lag when warping in on a multi-BS, multi-HAC, multi-Tackler warp in point = death.
One bit of lag when jumping into a system with multi-bs, multi-Hac,multi-tackler,multiple bubbles sitting on the gate you coming through = death.
Lag is a 2-way road,it cannot be used as a valid point in an argument such as yours.
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Not so. There are quite a number of L4 missions where you don't really know what to expect. A number of spawns are random. When you are forced to warp in at 5km from rats that can (and do) warp scramble you, jam you (gurista) and because there are more than just 3 ships
3 ships ey? havent ratted much in deep 0.0 have you know hey? Our spawns tackle,jam,dampen just as much as yours
Originally by: Brannor McThife
How so? Hardly see how they're as uncertain as you claim, since everyone seems to say it's quite certain that the "only" risk you face is from aggresive players...that doesn't seem uncertain. See unknown (or known enemy) in local, warp to station/SS...fairly routine and you have time to respond before they pick the belt you're in and warp to you...
So you agree that 0.0 is more riskier then, as you have to pay attention to local,and well if you dont then die. You also seem to be forgetting if a hostile force starts camping the system kinda causes you to have a slight problem with rattin so you need to log or fight,fighting results in death,ie risk.
P.S - Safe spots can be probed, they are not that safe. Once again more risk.
Soooo you watch local like a hawk in 0.7 do you? You travel 34 jumps with a scout ahead of you to locate a hostile force in empire do you? You stay docked in a station when 20 hostiles are sitting outside in empire do you? - I think not.
Granted L4 are tough sure,but once you have the know how they become easy, can i ask when did you last loose a ship to a mission?
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Adding rats to planets just gives you more spawns and more isk. Making rats tougher and worth more... well, when you come across a spawn in a belt, have the tackler rats warp out and back in at random ranges...that'll make it worth the risk.
Sure if its done at planets and the reward is worth more, and i did say tougher by the way.
The correct soultion is to un-nerf Lvl4 for 0.0/lowsec agents - That is one aspect that people have ignored. Lvl4 does not mean high sec, for all I care, give lvl4 highsec even more nerfs :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Khajit Smitty
Minmatar MisFunk Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:47:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
The correct soultion is to un-nerf Lvl4 for 0.0/lowsec agents - That is one aspect that people have ignored. Lvl4 does not mean high sec, for all I care, give lvl4 highsec even more nerfs :)
Agreed, the worlds collide as far as i know will be moved to lowsec only, at the moment its avaiable in high sec as far as im aware thats the only mission that yields good rewards in high sec.
After all if you are in low sec or 0.0 you are taking more risks.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.02 12:51:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Khajit Smitty Edited by: Khajit Smitty on 02/08/2006 12:42:54 To the OP, when where you last podded by the way ? When where you last in 0.0 ?
When last did you do a L4 mission of your own, rather than tagging along? When last did YOU lose a ship in a L4 mission, what was the ship, and when last did you lose a ship in 0.0, and what was the ship?
Getting personal never resolves a disagreement.
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
CelticKnight
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:00:00 -
[77]
If they introduce good Lvl4 missions into PCS and outposts that might have a valid point. we cannot farm lvl4s out here, our isk comes from plexes, (many people few plexes... not enuf to go around..)mining or ratting. Also there is production, but for those who have the t2 BPOs this is a legit sort of income. For the majority of us, our income is ratting. take away the ratting and we cannot make a living.
Id love to have lvl4s if to just relieve the bordom. now imagine not having lvl 4s.. and you will start to see how hard it really is for us to make isk, not everyone can make isk when they want to, less you have a tanked hulk or 3 accounts, which is something i cannot personally afford!!
Dont run missions for a month, and you start to see what lack of ratting would do to us. LvL4s are ratting for you guys. thats about it.. sadly we dont get a 1Billion isk ship every month Im dont have a sig. |
Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:02:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Khajit Smitty Soooo you watch local like a hawk in 0.7 do you? You travel 34 jumps with a scout ahead of you to locate a hostile force in empire do you? You stay docked in a station when 20 hostiles are sitting outside in empire do you? - I think not.
Granted L4 are tough sure,but once you have the know how they become easy, can i ask when did you last loose a ship to a mission?
If you are at war, you do all of what you say in Empire anyway... and yes, I've watched people camp stations in Jita waiting for war targets...
There are some L4's that never really become easy. Not many people go for the extra stages on the Angel/Gurista L4 Extravs, and not until you have really decent skills can you even come close to tanking some missions (Guristas Extrav Stage 3 (with the turrets) and Vengeance Stage 3 come to mind)
Oh, and I'm guessing you're trying to say that L4 missions are "easy" because you know I haven't lost a ship in a L4 since October last year. That doesn't mean they're easy, that means I'm damn careful with themand won't unnecessarily risk my Cerberus against damage I cannot tank.
As for DEEP 0.0. You're hardly a veteran if I recall. You were part of FREGE, which was in "shallow" 0.0 and hardly "worth it" space...then out to the far NW, where your corp stayed for only what, 2-3 weeks, then back to empire before heading out to where you are now. 1 month of "deep" 0.0...
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:06:00 -
[79]
Originally by: CelticKnight
For the majority of us, our income is ratting. take away the ratting and we cannot make a living.
I never said take it away. I merely said that the respawn of active rat "groups" should be removed. Nothing more. Somewhere people got it into their head that I was asking for 0.0 rats to be removed...I'm not.
Make them harder, fine. Make them worth more, fine. But simply stop people chaining the same group over and over. This is the very same thing that should apply to World's Collide. Never disagreed with that.
Oh, and the CNR has apparently become very rare in the offers table... can't really say, as I've only ever gotten my 0.8 L4 agent to 200k LP once... took 6 months of cautious L4 missions.
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:14:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Avon on 02/08/2006 13:16:00
Originally by: Brannor McThife But simply stop people chaining the same group over and over. This is the very same thing that should apply to World's Collide. Never disagreed with that.
0.0 spawns don't work lkie that anyway. Sometimes you can farm a spawn by keeping ships alive .. but then sometimes the whole spawn just vanishes anyway. Also, even if you do manage to farm, the NPC's they can take quite a while to respawn. It is more profitable warping belt-to-belt than trying to farm a spawn.
I think you are basing your arguement on a false premise.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Auldare
S.A.S
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:17:00 -
[81]
eve-online is a mmo, it's all about player interaction. OK now remember that as we look at the basic areas of lvl4 missions and 0.0 ratting
Missions; You solo grind your way to a position where you can talk to a lvl4 agent then your set. (it does take ages but you gotta remember, you are doing it by yourself)
You have to know the dynamics of deapspace npc aggressionand also types of npc to encounter during mission, or you'll be quickly staring at a pod. Once you know the rules it is plain sailing.
Time while doing missions passes quicker as you have to keep on doing different things, i.e change sequence you kill next group of npcs, move around talk to agent....
0.0 Ratting; To have a trouble free time you must be in a well organised alliance, or know of one that will let you npc in their space. Generally alliances have taken the time of multiple people to establish a relatively safe area as their own. player resources have undoubtably been lost during this period.
if your alone in a system, it is better imho to keep moving through the belts to refresh the spawns. If there are 2-3 npcers in system chaining a good spawn is the only way to go unless you interact and work together.
The main risk during npcing is from wolf packs coming into system. it is boring and you can become really complacent, where these groups can come in and catch you off guard.
All in all to set up a viable area to npc in peace without worrying about other players take a hell of a lot more time and resources from multiple players than it does for lvl4 missions.
The problem with chaining is not that its the best way to make isk/hour when 0.0 npcing, cycling belts and clearing them over time is way better in my experience. It's that if you have a lot of npcers in one system chaining is the best way to get a high consistent isk/hour.
There is more i would like to add but unfortunatly i'm too sleepy to think anymore, was on night duty last night
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:17:00 -
[82]
This thread =
<3 |
Khajit Smitty
Minmatar MisFunk Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:18:00 -
[83]
Wasnt getting personal, was just trying to find out if you had been podded or lost a ship recently.
I dont do level 4 missions, missions always bored me for some reason more than ratting, i can do level 4's got the standings for them and im sure if i read a few walkthroughs and chat to guys in the level 4 missions chat channel i can get some advice that will make them pretty easy to run.
Never said i was a veteran, dont claim to be either, but to be honest it only takes 2 weeks or so of 0.0 to realise that empire has far less risk than 0.0.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:21:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Avon
I think you are basing your arguement on a false premise.
Thanks Avon. You're one of only 2 people in this thread who have said straight out that this doesn't happen everywhere, and that's appreciated.
Perhaps this only happens in certain 0.0 regions. Maybe BoB needs to expand Just kidding. If this doesn't happen in your region of 0.0, then my "request" doesn't really affect you at all. My post was as a result of hearing from several people that they chained these spawns in their regions of space.
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
Burnhard Brutor
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:26:00 -
[85]
0.0 ratting is super boring. So are missions. So is mining. So is running a POS. So is sitting in a gate camp.
The only thing that isn't boring is the real-life outside of the time I log into Eve to check a skill.
Also 0.0 ratting is super easy - not easier than level 4's, just a different set of problems and possibly a different ship setup required. And don't get me started on Risk v Reward. When you are ratting in 0.0, you are engaged in PvE, which is Effort v Reward. People who do level 4 missions have certainly put in the effort, especially given the time it takes to get standings for a good 4 agent. Can't say the same for 0.0.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.02 13:33:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Burnhard Brutor
And don't get me started on Risk v Reward. When you are ratting in 0.0, you are engaged in PvE, which is Effort v Reward. People who do level 4 missions have certainly put in the effort, especially given the time it takes to get standings for a good 4 agent. Can't say the same for 0.0.
When in 0.0 your PvE activities are always overshadowed by the threat that it may, at any moment, become a PvP activity. With that in mind, the rewards are certainly not too high. That is not true of hi-sec missions.
As to agents in systems < 0.5, they probably could do with a boost.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Sebastien LeReparteur
Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.08.02 14:08:00 -
[87]
Well removing farming from this games means removing Roids, Missions and spawns....
EVE is a giant farming LAND with pvp. Farmers are making the economie, ships and all the nice modules available to the more "hardcore" forum trolls to use against those same farmer...
Farmer of the world I say we stop selling our loots and only produce for ourself then you will see all those nice Piwates/trollers farm there stuff liek everyone else.
Removing "easy" farming will only make this game more alien to the casual players. I know you hardcore dudes realy want to have 0.0 full of goons and noobs but we all know what happens during mass unplanned exodus... The node lock up under unexpected stress...
The thign ppl seam to forget is this is a game. You may not like the pve stile play and can call ppl carebears but you cannot tell the players what is fun or NOT.
For my part the fun now is trying to get 3b as fats as possible this includes trying out belt spawns and L4 solo. Both have high risk and high reward.
The philosophy of having 0.0 the only hihg income space is lame IMO. When freigthers, T2 producers and all those very easy sub class can make billions watching TV.
Let the ppl have fun!!! And the more ISK you see coming inside the Empire the more player will willingly risk ships out in 0.0. Making ISK rarer will mean less ppl out there. With most choke point camped and regions KOS zones there is no way casual players (a good 2/3 of the players mass) will venture out there with fleets. Give them loads of ISK and we will see epic wars you can only dream of.
But for those I don't want you guys to get what I have unless you do it the way I do it. Well life ain't fun most of the time and when it is, it may not be fun for all.
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Torrence Osti
A.W.M Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.08.02 14:52:00 -
[88]
I'd rather see CCP beef the spawns up, make them more difficult, worth more money. Right now one person can solo a whole spawn themselves, I thought the 0.0 spawns were supposed to be some of the hardest in the game? Well I was wrong.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.02 14:52:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 02/08/2006 14:55:05 0.0 rewards need to be high, not only because of the risk of actually being shot in a belt, but also because of the higher costs to live there and make it a home.
In 0.0 you don't get everything on a silver platter. The 0.0 players have to invest time and isk into building up some infrastructure and protect their space.
So sorry that we deserve more rewards.Once you are willing to run 20 jumps to empire through gatecamps to get your stuff or willing to setup and fuel poses to hold your home or invest many hours and ships to keep your space, you deserve high rewards, too.
( The last time I was ratting was over 2 weeks ago. There is often more important stuff to be done in 0.0 and that usually costs isk )
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:09:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Khajit Smitty
Originally by: Lord WarATron
The correct soultion is to un-nerf Lvl4 for 0.0/lowsec agents - That is one aspect that people have ignored. Lvl4 does not mean high sec, for all I care, give lvl4 highsec even more nerfs :)
Agreed, the worlds collide as far as i know will be moved to lowsec only, at the moment its avaiable in high sec as far as im aware thats the only mission that yields good rewards in high sec.
After all if you are in low sec or 0.0 you are taking more risks.
Yes, this is on the right track. However, Worlds Collide is not the key issue, the key issue is the fact that 0.0/lowsec mission running has suffered massive nerfs as per high sec mission runners. Supertanker bosses that used to have 10mil bounties, got nerfed to 5mil, then nerfed to 2.5mil despite if the lvl4 is in highsec, lowsec or 0.0!
Mission running lvl4's is harder than ratting in 0.0. If risk should follow reward, then I would expect lvl4's to pay more than 0.0 ratting if the lvl4 is in 0.0/lowsec. The main problem is that high sec mission runners have given the entire lvl4 runners a bad name. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
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Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:20:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Khajit Smitty
Originally by: Lord WarATron
The correct soultion is to un-nerf Lvl4 for 0.0/lowsec agents - That is one aspect that people have ignored. Lvl4 does not mean high sec, for all I care, give lvl4 highsec even more nerfs :)
Agreed, the worlds collide as far as i know will be moved to lowsec only, at the moment its avaiable in high sec as far as im aware thats the only mission that yields good rewards in high sec.
After all if you are in low sec or 0.0 you are taking more risks.
Yes, this is on the right track. However, Worlds Collide is not the key issue, the key issue is the fact that 0.0/lowsec mission running has suffered massive nerfs as per high sec mission runners. Supertanker bosses that used to have 10mil bounties, got nerfed to 5mil, then nerfed to 2.5mil despite if the lvl4 is in highsec, lowsec or 0.0!
Mission running lvl4's is harder than ratting in 0.0. If risk should follow reward, then I would expect lvl4's to pay more than 0.0 ratting if the lvl4 is in 0.0/lowsec. The main problem is that high sec mission runners have given the entire lvl4 runners a bad name.
While the mission itself may be harder than ratting in 0.0. You have a much harder time setting up logistics and safely traveling in 0.0 than in lowsec/empire.
There is more too it than just the difficulty of the rats.
There is also something to be said for income levels in empire to not be compairable to 0.0 income levels. Right now, if you run lvl4 missions and farm them, you can make more money per hour than a ratter in 0.0. Which is RETARDED. IMO.
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:41:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Lord WarATron Yes, this is on the right track. However, Worlds Collide is not the key issue, the key issue is the fact that 0.0/lowsec mission running has suffered massive nerfs as per high sec mission runners. Supertanker bosses that used to have 10mil bounties, got nerfed to 5mil, then nerfed to 2.5mil despite if the lvl4 is in highsec, lowsec or 0.0!
Mission running lvl4's is harder than ratting in 0.0. If risk should follow reward, then I would expect lvl4's to pay more than 0.0 ratting if the lvl4 is in 0.0/lowsec. The main problem is that high sec mission runners have given the entire lvl4 runners a bad name.
While the mission itself may be harder than ratting in 0.0. You have a much harder time setting up logistics and safely traveling in 0.0 than in lowsec/empire.
There is more too it than just the difficulty of the rats.
There is also something to be said for income levels in empire to not be compairable to 0.0 income levels. Right now, if you run lvl4 missions and farm them, you can make more money per hour than a ratter in 0.0. Which is RETARDED. IMO.
But my point is that if you run lvl4's in 0.0, you are gimped with the same nerfs that are effecting empire. Like i said before, I almost never run high sec missions, unless its COSMOS or something special. I meet quite a few pirates and loot theives, and this adds to the enjoyment of making isk.
Now before someone shouts "Why dont you rat or mine?" Heck, I chain triple BS spawns while mining Merco with 8MDCMII's on my apoc. I could take a even bigger risk for a fraction of the money by doing a lvl4 in 0.0!
The reality is that CCP got it all wrong! The Mission Agents should be in 0.0/lowsec giving good rewards, as to make up for security & safety , and the ones in highsec should be giving close to penuts. This gives zero incentive for any high sec mission runner to move to 0.0, which is what we want them to do.
--- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Makhan
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:42:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Makhan on 02/08/2006 15:43:41
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Khajit Smitty
Originally by: Lord WarATron
The correct soultion is to un-nerf Lvl4 for 0.0/lowsec agents - That is one aspect that people have ignored. Lvl4 does not mean high sec, for all I care, give lvl4 highsec even more nerfs :)
Agreed, the worlds collide as far as i know will be moved to lowsec only, at the moment its avaiable in high sec as far as im aware thats the only mission that yields good rewards in high sec.
After all if you are in low sec or 0.0 you are taking more risks.
Yes, this is on the right track. However, Worlds Collide is not the key issue, the key issue is the fact that 0.0/lowsec mission running has suffered massive nerfs as per high sec mission runners. Supertanker bosses that used to have 10mil bounties, got nerfed to 5mil, then nerfed to 2.5mil despite if the lvl4 is in highsec, lowsec or 0.0!
Mission running lvl4's is harder than ratting in 0.0. If risk should follow reward, then I would expect lvl4's to pay more than 0.0 ratting if the lvl4 is in 0.0/lowsec. The main problem is that high sec mission runners have given the entire lvl4 runners a bad name.
While the mission itself may be harder than ratting in 0.0. You have a much harder time setting up logistics and safely traveling in 0.0 than in lowsec/empire.
There is more too it than just the difficulty of the rats.
There is also something to be said for income levels in empire to not be comparable to 0.0 income levels. Right now, if you run lvl4 missions and farm them, you can make more money per hour than a ratter in 0.0. Which is RETARDED. IMO.
Are you freaking kidding me? This is a joke, right? Belt ratting is far more profitable than missions will ever be, not that it is really a problem. The difference is in loot yield. Don't play the victim here, belt ratters' don't have to sit on their arse for 4 hours waiting for that horrible unsoloable mission to pass. PS: you misspelled "comparable". EDIT: they should probably increase 0.0 mission rewards some.
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Nicocat
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:46:00 -
[94]
Caveat: I got bored of reading by page 2
I made my fortune (if 750 mil is a fortune yet) by 0.0 ratting. Take it away, and I'm out of here. That's all I'm saying.
---------------------------- The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass.
-Alexi
Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me! |
Sammiel
Ars Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:58:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Makhan Edited by: Makhan on 02/08/2006 15:43:41
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Khajit Smitty
Originally by: Lord WarATron
The correct soultion is to un-nerf Lvl4 for 0.0/lowsec agents - That is one aspect that people have ignored. Lvl4 does not mean high sec, for all I care, give lvl4 highsec even more nerfs :)
Agreed, the worlds collide as far as i know will be moved to lowsec only, at the moment its avaiable in high sec as far as im aware thats the only mission that yields good rewards in high sec.
After all if you are in low sec or 0.0 you are taking more risks.
Yes, this is on the right track. However, Worlds Collide is not the key issue, the key issue is the fact that 0.0/lowsec mission running has suffered massive nerfs as per high sec mission runners. Supertanker bosses that used to have 10mil bounties, got nerfed to 5mil, then nerfed to 2.5mil despite if the lvl4 is in highsec, lowsec or 0.0!
Mission running lvl4's is harder than ratting in 0.0. If risk should follow reward, then I would expect lvl4's to pay more than 0.0 ratting if the lvl4 is in 0.0/lowsec. The main problem is that high sec mission runners have given the entire lvl4 runners a bad name.
While the mission itself may be harder than ratting in 0.0. You have a much harder time setting up logistics and safely traveling in 0.0 than in lowsec/empire.
There is more too it than just the difficulty of the rats.
There is also something to be said for income levels in empire to not be comparable to 0.0 income levels. Right now, if you run lvl4 missions and farm them, you can make more money per hour than a ratter in 0.0. Which is RETARDED. IMO.
Are you freaking kidding me? This is a joke, right? Belt ratting is far more profitable than missions will ever be, not that it is really a problem. The difference is in loot yield. Don't play the victim here, belt ratters' don't have to sit on their arse for 4 hours waiting for that horrible unsoloable mission to pass. PS: you misspelled "comparable". EDIT: they should probably increase 0.0 mission rewards some.
Loot yield is not a big deal. Nor is the chance of hitting it big with a faction spawn. Frankly, it is too profitable to run missions, which is why when I needed money I ran missions instead of ratting 0.0 spawns, which I also had access to. First off, you will certainly not always get chained 1.85's going. Sometimes you will, sometimes you will be clearing BC spawns for hours hoping something good will spawn. Second, lvl 4's in empire are safe. You lose your ship if you are an idiot, and almost all the missions are entirely predictable. And the skills needed for the bulk of them really aren't that special. I can do a majority and my BS skills are pretty atrocious. And guess what, mission runners don't have to sit for 4 hours either. Many, if not most, corps have multiple level 4 agents that can be run, thus allowing you to bypass the 4 hour timer. Not to mention once you have sufficient standings you can just take the hit anyhow, you just can't do it frequently.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:06:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Sammiel
Originally by: Makhan Edited by: Makhan on 02/08/2006 15:43:41
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Khajit Smitty
Originally by: Lord WarATron
The correct soultion is to un-nerf Lvl4 for 0.0/lowsec agents - That is one aspect that people have ignored. Lvl4 does not mean high sec, for all I care, give lvl4 highsec even more nerfs :)
Agreed, the worlds collide as far as i know will be moved to lowsec only, at the moment its avaiable in high sec as far as im aware thats the only mission that yields good rewards in high sec.
After all if you are in low sec or 0.0 you are taking more risks.
Yes, this is on the right track. However, Worlds Collide is not the key issue, the key issue is the fact that 0.0/lowsec mission running has suffered massive nerfs as per high sec mission runners. Supertanker bosses that used to have 10mil bounties, got nerfed to 5mil, then nerfed to 2.5mil despite if the lvl4 is in highsec, lowsec or 0.0!
Mission running lvl4's is harder than ratting in 0.0. If risk should follow reward, then I would expect lvl4's to pay more than 0.0 ratting if the lvl4 is in 0.0/lowsec. The main problem is that high sec mission runners have given the entire lvl4 runners a bad name.
While the mission itself may be harder than ratting in 0.0. You have a much harder time setting up logistics and safely traveling in 0.0 than in lowsec/empire.
There is more too it than just the difficulty of the rats.
There is also something to be said for income levels in empire to not be comparable to 0.0 income levels. Right now, if you run lvl4 missions and farm them, you can make more money per hour than a ratter in 0.0. Which is RETARDED. IMO.
Are you freaking kidding me? This is a joke, right? Belt ratting is far more profitable than missions will ever be, not that it is really a problem. The difference is in loot yield. Don't play the victim here, belt ratters' don't have to sit on their arse for 4 hours waiting for that horrible unsoloable mission to pass. PS: you misspelled "comparable". EDIT: they should probably increase 0.0 mission rewards some.
Loot yield is not a big deal. Nor is the chance of hitting it big with a faction spawn. Frankly, it is too profitable to run missions, which is why when I needed money I ran missions instead of ratting 0.0 spawns, which I also had access to. First off, you will certainly not always get chained 1.85's going. Sometimes you will, sometimes you will be clearing BC spawns for hours hoping something good will spawn. Second, lvl 4's in empire are safe. You lose your ship if you are an idiot, and almost all the missions are entirely predictable. And the skills needed for the bulk of them really aren't that special. I can do a majority and my BS skills are pretty atrocious. And guess what, mission runners don't have to sit for 4 hours either. Many, if not most, corps have multiple level 4 agents that can be run, thus allowing you to bypass the 4 hour timer. Not to mention once you have sufficient standings you can just take the hit anyhow, you just can't do it frequently.
So the solution is to simply un-nerf 0.0/low sec lvl4 agents and everyone is happy :)
Miners have the option of mining veld in safety, or take a risk and start mining merco for ungodly amount of isk. Missionrunners have the reverse - The is no real incentive to run lvl4's in 0.0, and no t2 implants do not count since you can get t2 implants from belt ratting as well :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:10:00 -
[97]
Quote: but imo the whole belt ratting needs a redesign, as its so boring.
First they have to get the system wide belts in place with non-respawning ore (persistant but everchanging resources, no spawns!).
Then add a bit of exploration to find pirate camps somewhere in the belt.
Basically small complexes that need to be discovered in the system wide belts, etc...
Complexes ranging in size so you can solo, all the way up to where you would need your whole alliance, etc...
So many game improvements start with system wide belts, as I have been lobbying for, for quite a while now.
Spawning is bad in an MMO, it induces camping, which is another no-no in an MMO. Camping induces boredom & grinding... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Buxaroo
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:31:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists the reward is ok imo,
its the challenge that needs a boost.
having the 500k pretty easy, and the 1.85m alot more difficult would rock.
but imo the whole belt ratting needs a redesign, as its so boring.
Agreed. I would rather mine crokite and bistot and make my millions that way and I cna read the forums and whatnot whilst I do it. Ratting is jsut too boring for me. Mine for ISK, pvp for combat
My gripe about ratting is that it's kind of goofy that a Sansha will fire missiles at me but I will NEVER get a missile mod..........now THATS something that needs help. Hell, imagine all those drones you looted and never once did a rat send drones to your sorry butt
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Aurora Ming
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:32:00 -
[99]
There are very few places you can find triple 1.85M spawns and those are -.9 and -1.0 systems which are fought after by the alliances or highly hostile area'.s
Most 0.0 players run around in systems with battleships that range from 500k to 650k and a 950 to 1.1 that pops up from time to time. So Don't think the orginal poster realized those nice spawns are in rare area's.
-John
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Echorest
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Posted - 2006.08.02 17:11:00 -
[100]
I never understand why everyone says nerf something that they don't do? If i thought someone was getting more doing something else I would probably go and do that, on the other hand if I didn't want to do that because I was having more fun i'd stick with that.
In no matter what you do , as they say, grass is always greener. If lvl 4 runners are happy doing their missions, carry on, but if you would rather earn more cash than have more fun then get your butts out to 0.0. And if your answer to that is you don't want to then stay where you are and quit moaning. This works vice versa.
Just my 0.02 isk.
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Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.02 17:13:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Lord WarATron Yes, this is on the right track. However, Worlds Collide is not the key issue, the key issue is the fact that 0.0/lowsec mission running has suffered massive nerfs as per high sec mission runners. Supertanker bosses that used to have 10mil bounties, got nerfed to 5mil, then nerfed to 2.5mil despite if the lvl4 is in highsec, lowsec or 0.0!
Mission running lvl4's is harder than ratting in 0.0. If risk should follow reward, then I would expect lvl4's to pay more than 0.0 ratting if the lvl4 is in 0.0/lowsec. The main problem is that high sec mission runners have given the entire lvl4 runners a bad name.
While the mission itself may be harder than ratting in 0.0. You have a much harder time setting up logistics and safely traveling in 0.0 than in lowsec/empire.
There is more too it than just the difficulty of the rats.
There is also something to be said for income levels in empire to not be compairable to 0.0 income levels. Right now, if you run lvl4 missions and farm them, you can make more money per hour than a ratter in 0.0. Which is RETARDED. IMO.
But my point is that if you run lvl4's in 0.0, you are gimped with the same nerfs that are effecting empire. Like i said before, I almost never run high sec missions, unless its COSMOS or something special. I meet quite a few pirates and loot theives, and this adds to the enjoyment of making isk.
Now before someone shouts "Why dont you rat or mine?" Heck, I chain triple BS spawns while mining Merco with 8MDCMII's on my apoc. I could take a even bigger risk for a fraction of the money by doing a lvl4 in 0.0!
The reality is that CCP got it all wrong! The Mission Agents should be in 0.0/lowsec giving good rewards, as to make up for security & safety , and the ones in highsec should be giving close to penuts. This gives zero incentive for any high sec mission runner to move to 0.0, which is what we want them to do.
Then I think we agree. Personally, I say just remove all lvl4 missions from .5 and up space.
It solves the "empire mission runner" syndrome problem and allows you to increase loot/reward for level 4 missions across the board without also making safe space a gold mine.
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.02 17:16:00 -
[102]
Imo, the difficulty variation of belt rats is way too small. Meaning that those 1.85m rrats should be way harder then they are. Or that CCP should start sending in spawns of up to 5 BS with escort, or at least something that can break a frigging single large armor rep tank.
Old blog |
Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.02 17:19:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Makhan
Are you freaking kidding me? This is a joke, right? Belt ratting is far more profitable than missions will ever be, not that it is really a problem. The difference is in loot yield. Don't play the victim here, belt ratters' don't have to sit on their arse for 4 hours waiting for that horrible unsoloable mission to pass. PS: you misspelled "comparable". EDIT: they should probably increase 0.0 mission rewards some.
1) Belt ratting is RARELY more profitable then lvl4 missions when both are being farmed.
2)Rat loot isn't that great in many regions. Guristas drop Arby launchers, and that is about the best piece of loot you can get from them. With a few occasional exceptions.
3)You should not play the victim. There is no such thing as an "unsoloable" mission. And if you are waiting around instead of just refusing it, you are the one choosing to be foolish, and a victim.
I've run lvl4/18's in .3 space. And farmed them. And I've belt ratted in 5 different 0.0 regions. And I can safely say that missions are More profitable thru less effort and on a more regular schedule.
Under IDEAL circumstances belt ratting can be more profitable, but it rarely actually is. Where as there are few if any circumstances that arise that will stop you from farming your lvl4's from the moment you log in to the moment you log off.
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 18:57:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 02/08/2006 18:59:10
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Makhan
Are you freaking kidding me? This is a joke, right? Belt ratting is far more profitable than missions will ever be, not that it is really a problem. The difference is in loot yield. Don't play the victim here, belt ratters' don't have to sit on their arse for 4 hours waiting for that horrible unsoloable mission to pass. PS: you misspelled "comparable". EDIT: they should probably increase 0.0 mission rewards some.
1) Belt ratting is RARELY more profitable then lvl4 missions when both are being farmed.
2)Rat loot isn't that great in many regions. Guristas drop Arby launchers, and that is about the best piece of loot you can get from them. With a few occasional exceptions.
3)You should not play the victim. There is no such thing as an "unsoloable" mission. And if you are waiting around instead of just refusing it, you are the one choosing to be foolish, and a victim.
I've run lvl4/18's in .3 space. And farmed them. And I've belt ratted in 5 different 0.0 regions. And I can safely say that missions are More profitable thru less effort and on a more regular schedule.
Under IDEAL circumstances belt ratting can be more profitable, but it rarely actually is. Where as there are few if any circumstances that arise that will stop you from farming your lvl4's from the moment you log in to the moment you log off.
lvl4's vs belt ratting is all baised on what systems you are in. If you are clever, you can get to the best spawn in any given system without visiting all belts. If you know the trick, you can spend no more than a minute to check out what is in the system without visiting a single belt, and if you dont find anything that is worth killing, then you can move on. These types of ratters are the ones that make far more money than lvl4's.
In my case, when I rat 0.0, I also slap on 8 MDCMII's and mine at the same time. I just let my drones do the killing - slow, but speed does not matter as another rat respawns by the time you kill one. The Miner/ratter is by far the most profitable option, outclassing ratting or lvl4's by far. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Guillame Herschel
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Posted - 2006.08.02 20:05:00 -
[105]
Pardon me for asking a n00b question, but what do people mean when they talk about "chaining rat spawns?" How does this differ from simply clearing the belts and waiting for the next round of spawns?
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.02 20:54:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel Pardon me for asking a n00b question, but what do people mean when they talk about "chaining rat spawns?" How does this differ from simply clearing the belts and waiting for the next round of spawns?
It's where you kill all but 1 ship of the spawn, thereby keeping the ship composition of the spawn active, i.e. while at least 1 of the 3 Battleships is still alive, you are pretty much certain that the other 2 will continue to spawn (some say it can be done for hours on end), rather than a new spawn.
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.02 21:13:00 -
[107]
There are a few good points in here.
0.0 spawns are too slow and too easy and really should produce 50% more income.
Level 4s are about right apart from farming some of the big ones.
In 0.0 the NPCs aren't going to kill me ever! Which means I can rat with a PvP setting, plus I can always leg it to a safe spot. However the rewards are mediocre and it presents absolutely no challenge. The ship is cheap and has a T1 set up so losing it costs me the insurnace money, which makes the profit look better.
Level 4s I do in uninsured 1.5 billion ISK set up. I'm not really in any danger from players unless we have a current empire war. The ISK is fairly good and there is a real possibility of losing that ship. I don't care who says there are a piece of ****, check the ship losses at the agent hubs. Lag, bugs, mistakes and your ship is gone in a few minutes.
So all in all a little more ISK to the 0.0 spawns by making the spawns bigger or harder and I think it'll balance out. I do level 4s, not for the ISK but becuase they're more difficult.
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Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
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Posted - 2006.08.02 22:00:00 -
[108]
the problem with these topics is that players don't grant each other anything, a 0.0 belt ratter wants to nerf his counterpart doing lvl 4 missions and visa versa... whine some more and everything gets nerfed to 1 isk an hour and we all fly Ibis, just stop the pointy finger threads and blow up stuff allready. ___________________
Eating Chopped Bear: |
Ogdru Jahad
Amarr Ultra Renegades Group
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Posted - 2006.08.03 17:17:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Brannor McThife Now I'm probably going to get a lot of flames/flak for this, but I'm also getting tired of people from "out there" complaining that L4 mission runners get too much ISK, and they keep calling for missions to be nerfed a lot...
So, I'm turning this around. I would like it if CCP nerfed the respawns of belt rats. Stop people sitting and cyclically farming "Tripple 1.85m BS spawns". Surely they are exploiting a game mechanic just like the L4 World's Collide?
Come on CCP, make those spawns once off, and then once all the ships are dead, make a different, random, spawn happen. No more of this ISK on a silver platter stuff.
kkthxbye.
-G
Have you ever farmed in 0.0?
P.S. Your "sig" is wrong. The absolution does more than 150% of the zealot. I'll leave you to figure out why...
in a previous life i used to farm bs spawns in 0.0..
all i had to watch out for was bob and thier roamin gank squads.
i escaped all thier atempts to pound my ship into a 20vs1 kill mail. :)
just use common sence guys
oh yeah why nerf 0.0 ? on a bad day you make 0.0 isk on a good day? well you figure out.
and some 0.0 plexs can land upi 1b plus isk a day evvery time it respawns.
this is not aimed at thee deja Great Quotes...
URG thrash > building a freighter with a hulk mining kinda reminds me of mining for a apoc in a ibis |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.03 17:58:00 -
[110]
I think alot of the people who rat 0.0 really know little about level 4 missions. In l4 missions the actual NPC can pose a risk in 0.0 ratting they never pose a risk because you can choose the distance you warp to every spawn. I also have trouble beleiving that looking at local and clicking warp when a name pops up constitues anything remotely resembling risk... inconvenience of course. The risk in 0.0 ratting is traveling for most people. I mean I give a small nod to 0.0 ratting as being over all more risky, but 0.0 ratting is also mroe rewarding by a little bit right now period.
Funny how people post that all they got in low sec to make money is ratting, complexes and missions.... you know what high sec has? missions nothing more, no complexes that make good money no rats that make good money.
Personally I dont think either deserve a nerf except the abilty to chain that spawn in world collides, which to me is clearly NOT how missions where intended to work.
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gamertrav
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Posted - 2006.08.03 19:07:00 -
[111]
Edited by: gamertrav on 03/08/2006 19:08:35 0.0 rats need a boost in difficulty (and a bit in profit) IMO. I can kill every single 0.0 rat i've come across using my Harpy. Even the uber BSs that drop faction mods can be killed by a solo assault frigate. Try doing a lvl4 in an AF ;)
Of course, it's kinda nice being able to just take my AF into 0.0, as it's fairly fast, so it can escape gatecamps for the most part.
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Sammiel
Ars Caelestis
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Posted - 2006.08.03 20:33:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 I think alot of the people who rat 0.0 really know little about level 4 missions. In l4 missions the actual NPC can pose a risk in 0.0 ratting they never pose a risk because you can choose the distance you warp to every spawn. I also have trouble beleiving that looking at local and clicking warp when a name pops up constitues anything remotely resembling risk... inconvenience of course. The risk in 0.0 ratting is traveling for most people. I mean I give a small nod to 0.0 ratting as being over all more risky, but 0.0 ratting is also mroe rewarding by a little bit right now period.
Funny how people post that all they got in low sec to make money is ratting, complexes and missions.... you know what high sec has? missions nothing more, no complexes that make good money no rats that make good money.
Personally I dont think either deserve a nerf except the abilty to chain that spawn in world collides, which to me is clearly NOT how missions where intended to work.
Hot damn, all you can make money off of in high sec is missions? I better tell all the producer and trade types that. First, there are belts, though they are primarily oriented towards new players. Second, many of these 0.0 ratters have tried or are currently running missions, so your claim that they don't understand it are patently false. What would be interesting is seeing how many high sec mission chainers have done substantial 0.0 ratting. Also, the threat of the NPCs in missions is severly overblown. Generally you figure out which missions you can easily handle and which you can't. And choosing distance is not why 0.0 is easier, its easier because you only fight a limited number of NPCs at a time vs a mission when you can aggro a ton of stuff at once.
And 0.0 ratting is not more profitable for the last time. It lacks consitency and it is easily interrupted. Also, you can alter the profitability of mission running through social skills. The amount gained by not needing to hunt for and set up spawns, the rewards in both LP and ISK from completion and the lack of a need to ever stop outweigh the 0.0 ratters loot + higher per NPC bounties. 0.0 ratting is much more lotto like than mission running. Sometimes you hit the big faction spawns and net a big pay day. Sometimes you fly around for a long time acing cruisers and praying something substantial spawns.
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Lustralis
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Posted - 2006.08.03 21:05:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Bhaal
First they have to get the system wide belts in place with non-respawning ore (persistant but everchanging resources, no spawns!).
Then add a bit of exploration to find pirate camps somewhere in the belt.
Basically small complexes that need to be discovered in the system wide belts, etc...
Complexes ranging in size so you can solo, all the way up to where you would need your whole alliance, etc...
So many game improvements start with system wide belts, as I have been lobbying for, for quite a while now.
Spawning is bad in an MMO, it induces camping, which is another no-no in an MMO. Camping induces boredom & grinding...
Excellent. Just how I see it too. This post almost made me want to login and play!
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Das Yad
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.03 22:05:00 -
[114]
Aye, l4's are so low risk. maybe i should take a break from 0.0 and visit my adoring fans in gyerzen
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.04 08:16:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 04/08/2006 08:21:04
Originally by: Das Yad Aye, l4's are so low risk. maybe i should take a break from 0.0 and visit my adoring fans in gyerzen
Ho ho ho, I am sure you will be welcomed with open arms. Makes a change from the BoB Alt corps.
However, very few people in this thread relise the real problem - 0.0 belt ratting vs 0.0 Lvl4's. Belt ratting has only the risk of other players. 0.0 lvl4's have the risk of other players AND the NPC. Yet the 0.0 lvl4's are nerfed to hell as with the empire lvl4's. No logic there.
The most profitable things to do to build up funds for PvP in 0.0 is firstly complexe's, then the Dual 8MDCMII/chaining setup, then mining by itself, then the Belt ratting by itself and lastly, the 0.0 lvl4 missions.
The Order of risk is Complex, 0.0 lvl4's, Mining, 2 in 1 Dual Mining/Chaining Setup, Belt Ratting The Order of reward is Complex, 2 in 1 Dual Mining/Chaining Setup, Mining, Belt Ratting, 0.0 Lvl4's
Whats the logic? --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
LexaKosh
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Posted - 2006.08.04 09:23:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
There is also something to be said for income levels in empire to not be compairable to 0.0 income levels. Right now, if you run lvl4 missions and farm them, you can make more money per hour than a ratter in 0.0. Which is RETARDED. IMO.
Well, from ain (in-game) logical point of view ... In 0.0 Concord is paying bounties for .... no purpose at all. Does Concord want these systems to be high sec in the long run? Do the bounty collectors want to increase the sec. status of the system that they're ratting in? Why should there be bounties for rats in 0.0 at all? Especially so since the money for paying these bounties mostly comes from empire tax payers who could not care less about rat population in 0.0. A more logical approach would be to take away all bounties in 0.0 and give the loot tables a large increase.
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BPO Polymerase
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:46:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Now I'm probably going to get a lot of flames/flak for this, but I'm also getting tired of people from "out there" complaining that L4 mission runners get too much ISK, and they keep calling for missions to be nerfed a lot...
So, I'm turning this around. I would like it if CCP nerfed the respawns of belt rats. Stop people sitting and cyclically farming "Tripple 1.85m BS spawns". Surely they are exploiting a game mechanic just like the L4 World's Collide?
Come on CCP, make those spawns once off, and then once all the ships are dead, make a different, random, spawn happen. No more of this ISK on a silver platter stuff.
kkthxbye.
-G
Yeah. Ok. How will this _reduce_ the isk/hour?
By all means, please nerf it, so I can kill all but one cruiser and mine the field dry without the need for protection, or worry about respawns.
Brilliant suggestion :) --
Ad infinitum - memento mori! |
BPO Polymerase
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:48:00 -
[118]
Originally by: LexaKosh In 0.0 Concord is paying bounties for .... no purpose at all.
Of course it has. Spaceships are capable of flight, a concept that will bring you from A to B. And, as such, rats in 0.0 can move on to high-sec systems unless killed.
So, the bounty has a purpose. --
Ad infinitum - memento mori! |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:51:00 -
[119]
Originally by: LexaKosh
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
There is also something to be said for income levels in empire to not be compairable to 0.0 income levels. Right now, if you run lvl4 missions and farm them, you can make more money per hour than a ratter in 0.0. Which is RETARDED. IMO.
Well, from ain (in-game) logical point of view ... In 0.0 Concord is paying bounties for .... no purpose at all. Does Concord want these systems to be high sec in the long run? Do the bounty collectors want to increase the sec. status of the system that they're ratting in? Why should there be bounties for rats in 0.0 at all? Especially so since the money for paying these bounties mostly comes from empire tax payers who could not care less about rat population in 0.0. A more logical approach would be to take away all bounties in 0.0 and give the loot tables a large increase.
As a logical extension of that, wouldn't all the NPC rats in hi-sec space get Concordoken as soon as they fired on a player, or get killed by the factional navy when they came through the gates? So, we drop 0.0 bounties, and remove all NPC rats from hi-sec space. Sounds fair to me.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Presidente Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:05:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 04/08/2006 12:13:40 I didn't read the whole thread.
The only thing what I don't like with this respwan is that it's indeed not random. So you can work out a schedule strategy which is nice at the first glance but also bad for a dynamic roleplay behaviour in EVE at the end.
And I would recommend to CCP to make it more +realistic½. I don't like visually that the ships just pop in. It destroys a bit the cool +realistic½ atmosphere. Why not let the NPC's warping in so that you get the impression they were called for backup. And at this point let complete spwans warp in instead of single ships. I mean, I like to catch some bonus ISK with ease when finished WORLDS COLLIDE l4 but I would not be sad if a spwan warps in to clarify: leave or fight.
Overall I would like to see that the respwan schedule will get higher and higher at a place where definitely farming happens. That means: if the whole spawn of this area will not respwan completely then it's time for increasing respwan delay to force the ships to leave that complex.
This would also IMO a realistic behaviour of the NPC to stay away from that place if it's totally unsure by campers.
At the end that forces the campers moving to other places. I think also that CCP should improve the AI of NPC's. It's some kind of stupid that I fight against 2 BS while 2 other ones just watching in 5 km distance what happend yesterday in PIRATE INVASION l4, I think. I mean: thanks EVE, they did *;-)
Live strong skilled and well fitted!
Presidente Gallente
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:00:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Avon
As a logical extension of that, wouldn't all the NPC rats in hi-sec space get Concordoken as soon as they fired on a player, or get killed by the factional navy when they came through the gates?
I disagree.
We see bounties on "bad players", and when they've gone and been bad and someone wants someone else to exact a toll; shooting at them doesn't get you Concordokened when their sec rating is bad enough. Following on from your line... the navy wants them, so puts a bounty on them (which they pay to Concord), and the various corporations take up missions for their faction to hunt down the pirates...and hire pod pilots.
Us.
hey presto. A logical explanation why Empire rats should have bounties, and empire-less rats, should not.
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:24:00 -
[122]
If all the rats from 0.0 invaded empire they would wtfpwn Concorde and the "BIG" 4 in no time given their numbers. So all those in 0.0 moaning about lvl 4 mission runners in empire earning isk "gasp." Be grateful, we are keeping empire space safe for you to return to when your corp/alliance gets their butts handed to them by someone else.
Personally i'm gonna join the "Campaign for real Quafe" coz since the patch it tastes real weird. -----------------------------------------------
Knowing all, when all is unknown.
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BOldMan
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:44:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Brannor McThife
We see bounties on "bad players", and when they've gone and been bad and someone wants someone else to exact a toll; shooting at them doesn't get you Concordokened when their sec rating is bad enough. Following on from your line... the navy wants them, so puts a bounty on them (which they pay to Concord), and the various corporations take up missions for their faction to hunt down the pirates...and hire pod pilots.
Us.
hey presto. A logical explanation why Empire rats should have bounties, and empire-less rats, should not.
-G
(EDIT) PS. In quite a number of missions you see stargates that state that they are secret and hidden... some of the new faction missions show how one faction is trying to set up a stargate deep inside their enemies territory... So it's quite logical for pirates to completely bypass the normal shipping lanes...
Oh, I agree with your great ideea, in deepspace concord should not interfere. Nice twist for L4 mission, no? And 0.0 spawn suck, you know that already, because you like so much L4 missions.
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:25:00 -
[124]
nerf missions to oblivion
then you can nerf 0.0 spawns
And these nearly instanced complex **** is getting more and more lame.
loot tables themself are pretty bad as well ... you dont need to produce basic stuff at all cuz it all drops from npcs anyway. I would like to see it changed so that ONLY named and faction officer stuff drops from npcs ...
Greetings Grim |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.04 16:18:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Grim Vandal nerf missions to oblivion
No - Nerf High Sec missions. The last time someone cried nerf missions, CCP nerfed the 0.0 Lvl4 Agent Missions thus defeating the point! --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
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