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chiq Mech
The Visceral Realists
5
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Posted - 2014.09.14 14:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
....is an expansion?
Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new and I don't know anything about the complexities of programming. I've just read the Oceanus dev blog and apart from a few minor adjustments I can't really see anything that justifies the word "expansion". Imagine a fantasy writer releasing the next installment of a series of stories and it only being a page long. Or perhaps a popular tv show and the long-awaited new series being 1 episode, half-an-hour long - with adverts.
I understand that expansions have been broken up into six week releases and that in many ways this is a good thing. But, what can be achieved in 6 weeks if this is going to be a permanent thing?
So the question is - what is the general concensus about forthcoming "expan....cough....patches"? Will we ever get something BIG? Something that knocks you for six and gets you running around the block naked shouting "oh my god, eve is just so freakin awesome I just can't take anymore!"
Or the continuance of minor and forgettable tweaks? |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5143
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 14:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:...I am relatively new...
Then I suggest you look up Incarna and learn about why doing 'big' additions instead of fixing existing smaller problems is a bad idea. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24545
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Some of those GÇ£minor and forgettable tweaksGÇ¥ have provided more content than some of the biggest expansions the game has ever seen. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Obunagawe
403
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I do think the new release cycle is a big mistake. |
Bisness Pirates
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
3
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Some of those GÇ£minor and forgettable tweaksGÇ¥ have provided more content than some of the biggest expansions the game has ever seen.
You mean like the hunt for the working overview after hyperion? :P
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chiq Mech
The Visceral Realists
5
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ah yes, see what you mean about Incarna.
Not sure what you mean about stealth buff.
and don't get me wrong, I understand the need for tweaking and I do like the new visuals.
But surely tweaking should be running in the background - maybe employ a couple of janitors to press a few buttons to make stations look more shiny?
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Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
676
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
In B4 OP has absolutely no clue about software development.
Oh wait. Nope. Not before that happened. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6420
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bisness Pirates wrote:Tippia wrote:Some of those GÇ£minor and forgettable tweaksGÇ¥ have provided more content than some of the biggest expansions the game has ever seen. You mean like the hunt for the working overview after hyperion? :P
One ping only please.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
78
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:Ah yes, see what you mean about Incarna.
Not sure what you mean about stealth buff.
and don't get me wrong, I understand the need for tweaking and I do like the new visuals.
But surely tweaking should be running in the background - maybe employ a couple of janitors to press a few buttons to make stations look more shiny?
I agree - would like to see a lot more new content, not just visual tweaks. |
Jur Tissant
Unreal Darkness
237
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Small tweaks are important but I agree that any modern MMO should be releasing new content on a semi-regular basis, not just updated interfaces and a few new ships. I suppose burner missions help to fill that gap a bit. |
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2741
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
The peaks in the player online statistics correspond to the hype the game was getting. First it was before Incarna, then hype was gone after everyone have seen that CCP did not deliver a fraction what they showed earlier in tech demos. Then it was 10 year anniversary, again there was nothing really "big" after that. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Charax Bouclier
Emerald Drama Theatrics
91
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Would you prefer that they aggregate the patch updates and release them together so you can feel some sort of expansion rush?
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5146
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Charax Bouclier wrote:...expansion rush?
Would this be anything like accidentally walking in space without a spacesuit? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
170
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:....is an expansion?
Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new and I don't know anything about the complexities of programming. I've just read the Oceanus dev blog and apart from a few minor adjustments I can't really see anything that justifies the word "expansion". Imagine a fantasy writer releasing the next installment of a series of stories and it only being a page long. Or perhaps a popular tv show and the long-awaited new series being 1 episode, half-an-hour long - with adverts.
I understand that expansions have been broken up into six week releases and that in many ways this is a good thing. But, what can be achieved in 6 weeks if this is going to be a permanent thing?
So the question is - what is the general concensus about forthcoming "expan....cough....patches"? Will we ever get something BIG? Something that knocks you for six and gets you running around the block naked shouting "oh my god, eve is just so freakin awesome I just can't take anymore!"
Or the continuance of minor and forgettable tweaks?
Eve IS freaking awesome. Ans most updates so far have been improvements to the awesome level in my opinion. It is a game that has been in development for more then 11 years already. I am not an old player so have no idea how Eve was all those years ago, but I have been through a number of expansions/updates that I feel have bettered the game greatly. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2741
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:chiq Mech wrote:....is an expansion?
Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new and I don't know anything about the complexities of programming. I've just read the Oceanus dev blog and apart from a few minor adjustments I can't really see anything that justifies the word "expansion". Imagine a fantasy writer releasing the next installment of a series of stories and it only being a page long. Or perhaps a popular tv show and the long-awaited new series being 1 episode, half-an-hour long - with adverts.
I understand that expansions have been broken up into six week releases and that in many ways this is a good thing. But, what can be achieved in 6 weeks if this is going to be a permanent thing?
So the question is - what is the general concensus about forthcoming "expan....cough....patches"? Will we ever get something BIG? Something that knocks you for six and gets you running around the block naked shouting "oh my god, eve is just so freakin awesome I just can't take anymore!"
Or the continuance of minor and forgettable tweaks? Eve IS freaking awesome. Ans most updates so far have been improvements to the awesome level in my opinion. It is a game that has been in development for more then 11 years already. I am not an old player so have no idea how Eve was all those years ago, but I have been through a number of expansions/updates that I feel have bettered the game greatly.
Think how great it would be if there would be no WoD all those years in the background. As CCP Soundwave once said, we could have big features and small features together. Now the Big things are eve related like Legion and Valkyrie. But they are not Eve, they are separate games as they look now. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5146
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Think how great it would be if there would be no WoD all those years in the background.
No point in coulda/woulda/shoulda's. What we know is, EVE is still improving and growing. For free. That's good enough for me. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8179
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new
This emans you were here when CCP did 'real' expansions, introducing big new features that {A} screwed up the game in big new ways and {B} were iterated on for a couple weeks then never looked at again.
The push for what CCP came to call "Jesus Features" caused a whole lot of frustration and bad things, culminating in the almost game killing event known as Incarna (the only event in the history of EVE online to cause a major and steep reduction in subscriptions).
After Incarna, CCP pledged to be smart about expansions. They have been, and the things they've done since have had a major positive effect on the game without screwing everything up in ways that the jesus features can't claim. Teircide and mobile structures (as a cople of small examples) added more actually content to the game than any number of past things could have.
The people who complain about it are either the ones who weren't here to see the past, the ones who were and who have forgotten, or the angsty misfits who never liked EVE int he 1st place and see's CCP current direction as 'not delivering the game EVE could be' (ie the game they want that is nothing like EVE). |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2741
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Think how great it would be if there would be no WoD all those years in the background.
No point in coulda/woulda/shoulda's. What we know is, EVE is still improving and growing. For free. That's good enough for me.
I think there is point in applying what has happened and moving forward, as the Eve was the succesful horse in this race, there was and is no point of making it race on hungry for most of the time. So, any time they spend on making it go even faster will be appreciatet. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
chiq Mech
The Visceral Realists
5
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Posted - 2014.09.14 16:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Is it possible that one or two unsuccessful expansions have created an atmosphere of "treading lightly" to not repeat said mistakes? Can this be used as an excuse to keep tweaking rather than inventing? This reminds me of artists/writers who continually tweak the same piece of work to "perfect it" rather than moving on to something new.
So they made a mistake with Incarna....now we have new nebulae, tooltips and adjustments to overview settings. It's as if ccp have gone to the other extreme and dare not introduce big things.
Why would, say for example, opening jovian space and introducing deep lore negatively affect the game?
I've been browsing the new features forum and some of the ideas are amazing - I also notice that many are a few years old and have never been implemented.
I understand your concerns, and I also understand that introducing "little things" has driven a small amount of content.
But perhaps a good idea to take the plunge, say "what the heck" and do something big? Shake things up?
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Martin Corwin
Corwin's Corsairs
9
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Posted - 2014.09.14 16:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Eve doesn't get expansions, it gets releases that cost you nothing. But you should know that, if you read the devblog, right?
Apart from that, Oceanus has plenty of new content for a 6 week iteration IMO: new cloaking effect, new wormhole effects, new wormhole nebulas, new burner missions and a new music piece. Not exactly new, but the beginning of module tiericide will be huge.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
12573
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Posted - 2014.09.14 16:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gets stuff for free.
Wants to pick what they get.
lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~ |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1262
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Posted - 2014.09.14 16:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:Is it possible that one or two unsuccessful expansions have created an atmosphere of "treading lightly" to not repeat said mistakes? It would be possible if there were only one or two unsucessful expansions. The reality is there were one or two catastrophic expansions, a whole load that added things that needed adjustments (which resulted in later expansions or components of expansions which were just fixes of content in previous expansions) which could thus be considered unsuccessful, and the odd one like Apocrypha that actually delivered.
As for treading lightly, they recently overhauled the core mechanics of industry for the first time since the game launched as far as I know (certainly the first time since 2006), I hear they're doing invention soon, and their current stated plan for the future is to go around to each of the super-nasty super-hard-to-modify core components of the game and rework them all, as well as stuff like module tiericide.
As for the six week release limiting the scope of added content, if you watch/read the relevant videos/blogs you'll find that the point is that the only releases are six-weekly; the dev work doesn't have to fit into six week windows, so they could work on a large 'jesus feature' over a longer time and fit it into one of the releases if they wanted to - they just probably won't because they and we have learned that large monolithic additions to the game don't work out well.
As for whether the release cycles are a good idea, this is a hard one to argue. They've tried pretty much everything else they can do short of not updating the game at all at one extreme, and releasing an offical EVE 2 at the other extreme. The simple fact of the matter is that it has worked out better for the game and the players every time CCP have moved further from large monolithic expansions and closer to working on the existing game systems in smaller more iterative updates. Changing the release cycle to match the more successful development philosophy really is the smart move. [witty image] - Stream |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2747
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 16:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: Gets stuff for free.
Wants to pick what they get.
Wants more of it too.
Quote:The reality is there were one or two catastrophic expansions I would say underdeveloped. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
getinmyshipihavecandy
Suspicious Van
3
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Posted - 2014.09.14 16:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
From my point of view it looks as if we'll get small updates, fixes and tiny treats every 6 weeks. Then every few months they'll give us a large feature that has been worked on behind the stage.
I like the new cycle. Gives us small things in between the big things. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5149
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 16:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
getinmyshipihavecandy wrote:From my point of view it looks as if we'll get small updates, fixes and tiny treats every 6 weeks. Then every few months they'll give us a large feature that has been worked on behind the stage.
I like the new cycle. Gives us small things in between the big things.
You have the best name in the game.
The like is for the name. They don't let us like twice or I'd give you one for the post too. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2747
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Posted - 2014.09.14 17:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
I would not mind them working on the foundations of things, like now, to make possible big things later, then they can add hype and it will be a great success. I hope they will make it big someday and they will deliver. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Torneach Structor
Emrys Enterprises
117
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Posted - 2014.09.14 17:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Applying regular MMO expansion logic to EVE just doesn't work.
In a themepark MMO, the developers need to constantly push out new content since they are the only real engine of said content.
In EVE, the developers have to constantly tweak and alter and maybe add some tools that the players themselves use to create content.
So, really, EVE tweaks and minor are in many ways equivalent to a regular MMO's expansion cycle, even though they look nothing alike - though this can be chalked up to EVE being nothing like those other games. |
Forest Archer
Pandora Sphere Disavowed.
152
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Posted - 2014.09.14 17:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:Is it possible that one or two unsuccessful expansions have created an atmosphere of "treading lightly" to not repeat said mistakes? Can this be used as an excuse to keep tweaking rather than inventing? This reminds me of artists/writers who continually tweak the same piece of work to "perfect it" rather than moving on to something new.
So they made a mistake with Incarna....now we have new nebulae, tooltips and adjustments to overview settings. It's as if ccp have gone to the other extreme and dare not introduce big things.
Why would, say for example, opening jovian space and introducing deep lore negatively affect the game?
I've been browsing the new features forum and some of the ideas are amazing - I also notice that many are a few years old and have never been implemented.
I understand your concerns, and I also understand that introducing "little things" has driven a small amount of content.
But perhaps a good idea to take the plunge, say "what the heck" and do something big? Shake things up?
2 things one is that the vets who have been around since the last good major expansion apocrypha know that CCP botched most of them and are not quite ready to jump into another one, we want them but we want them to be done well so when they have it done and ready we'll go for it. And the second is that the past 2 years CCP is fixing 11 year old issues if you want constant large expansions you are welcome to give CCP large amounts of money to do it, and most players don't care much about lore it's cool background but hardly effects gameplay. Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if your in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4883
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Posted - 2014.09.14 17:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bears: OMGCCPTHEGAMEISBROKENFIXITORIMUNSUBBINGMY ELEVETYTWELVETHOUSANDACCOUNTS(thatiplex)
CCP: *overhauls exploration,industry,makes ui sharing a thing and many other quality of life changes*
Bears: OMGCCPWHYTHEHELLAREYOUJUSTFIXINTHEGAMEANDNOTRELEASINGCONTENT!!!!!!
CCP: *collectively contemplates dusting off the longboats* =][= |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6078
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Posted - 2014.09.14 17:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
While I see the reason CCP is doing it this way, I have to admit I miss the old days when an expansion was something to get excited about. The hype, the speculation, the high quality trailers, the threadnaughts over one rumor or another. Trying to read between the lines when we actually got some info so that we'd have an advantage over our fellow players on launch day.
Good stuff! With a six week cycle, we'll never see anything like that again and I think EVE has lost a little excitement because of it.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
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